Ran into suspected exBPD after 1 month NC: Look what she says

[LuckyNicki]

I executed NC for a month because I know she's seeing someone else.  The struggle that I had with this for a very long time was that she had cancer. 

My goal was just to heal and detach myself emotionally.  I think she was a bit pissed off.

To Be Honest, what she did was so horrendous to me that I would never want to be friends with someone like that.  But because I suspect BPD, I'm willing to be friends at a distance since we have so many mutual friends.  On top of that she's going through a cancer bout.

So that night (we were drinking some by the way at a friends thing):

I said to her "look I'm still there, if you ever need me.  I just needed to heal.  I'm better now"

then she says "I rather commit suicide than come to you for help"

What the heckFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF who says that? She has to be a BPD!    Seriously who in the right mind says something like that.

Guilt trip or what?

She doesn't know that I know she's seeing someone.  It's kinda obvious.  I can tell she is blocking out the fact that she has hurt me and is blaming me for abandoning her when she "needed" me the most. 

How the heck am I suppose to stick around when she's very likely two timing. 

Anyways, I feel better but I am trying to keep a distance but will be there for her at a distance when it comes to her health issues, which apparently has gotten worst... .

Thoughts on what she said guys?

[buddy1226]

I wouldn't over think this one, especially if you think she is BPD, which you obviously do since you are here. To be honest this one comment, as bad as it is, isn't the end all, be all for someone with BPD. My ex completely upended my entire life and did it with mal intent. She did it in while we were together pretending to love me and setting my up for unbelievable disaster and emotional distress like I've never known. Basically I tangled with the devil.

SO my point here is that if you are dealing with a BPD cut bait and run. This will not end well if she is the real deal. It is bad that she has cancer but she has made it clear that she doesn't need you. I would go NC and stay that way.

[Tausk]

She's angry.  What's the worse thing you've ever said to someone when you were angry?

It doesn't make it right, but like Bud says, don't over think it.  Yet, I know it hurts.  It's someone who you cared and still care for.  But remember, any interaction between you is going to be either hateful, or an attempt to recycle. 

There is no middle ground for pwBPD.  It's just who they are.

Why did you say that to her?  Probably because you care and you want to be supportive.  That's admirable of you.  But realize, you're just a trigger.  You didn't intend to become one, but that's the fact.  Keep working on yourself and it will become clearer.

Hang in there,

T

[HealingForMe]

But remember, any interaction between you is going to be either hateful, or an attempt to recycle. 

There is no middle ground for pwBPD.  It's just who they are.

Yep, there's no grey for a pwBPD... . they split everything into all white or all black... . all good or all bad & you're all bad atm

[Take2]

LuckyNicki... . I have heard those types of words and far far worse... .   trust me when you read here,it does not get better.  It gets worse each time - with each recycle, the next phase of devaluation becomes worse -more severe.  And also correct is that there really is no middle ground.  It's a concept I struggle with accepting.  Even after all the time (over a year) that I've been on this website and trying to break out of this... .   I still find my heart not catching up with my head.  Even though both my heart and my head truly know it won't ever work. 

Stay strong with your no contact.  Except that at some point she will reach out.  That is when you need to be your strongest. 

[GreenMango]

Nicki

You needed to not be together for your own emotional health and she wasn't pleased. 

It may be a good idea to take some time away from the group functions and drinking with her for a while to get some space.  It doesn't need to be permanent but the impulsive or hostile reactions aren't helpful to deal with either.

You left it on a kind note. That's enough.  My experience has been if you have these mutual connections that not having emotional relationship conversations, boundaries and formality work better if you have these ties.  Shifting gears to acquaintances.  Someone you used to know.

Can you give yourself some room away from her for awhile?

[LuckyNicki]

The mutual friends dont know about us.  Thats the prob.   We started seeing eachother and we wanted to not let people know until we got more serious, which never made it that far.

So here's the prob.  This group is growing and we all meet up once every month to catch up.  I think they are planning on doing it more often because of this girls illness (not BPD, they have no clue about her BPD)

I dont know if I can avoid going because it is rare we get together and ill be such an ass for not attending.

I feel like im better in general.  Just recovering a bit. I think this girl is pissed off that she lost me on a string.  Am I about to run into something bad here?  If she splits me black, am I going to run into problems or can we be civil?

[Tausk]

Civility will be difficult.  Secrets will be used against you as a weapon. 

IMHO, if you going to be around her, people better know that truth about you.  Otherwise, it going to get really bad. 

How about just staying away?

[LuckyNicki]

Its a little tough.   I honestly dont know if these friends will believe me if i tell them the whole story.    They will rightfully so have to hear from both sides of the story.

And by my telling these friends, I will be essentially creating an enemy out of my exBPD.  Because they will def ask her about it too which means everything will come to light.  I dont want to create drama dynamics in this group.

I am a little worry about what you said and thay secrets may be used against me.  I feel like I must go to the next group hangout to get a feel of how she'll react around me and everyone else.   

And if its civil, I may be able to continue.   But I guess if I start sensing some negative things going on, I may have to walk away from this group.  The prob is that she, as a friend is very genuine and giving.   Thats also why I was so confused by her actions when we got close/intimate.

After the convo I had with her that night, I wanted to go hoe.  And I noticed she said she wanted to go home.  Then when the group insisted we hang out some more to sober up, I agreed.  And then she jumped on it and said, yes lets hang out more.

After that we were having fun and things were light hearted as if that convo never took place.   

So im hoping it'll continue that way.   But with this awareness, I will keep it in the back of my head to have an exit plan when things do get out of hand (during our next function).

We both do not want to ruin the dynamics of this current group we're with. And a lot of that is why we never revealed why  we were dating in the first place until we knew it was serious.

Im cornered right now.   I dont know if I can avoid it because this next group hangout is intended to support her through her cancer bout.  I will be such an ass if I dont go... .  


But if she starts doing subtle things to hurt me, I guess I have to prep for an exit plan.

Your thoughts pls?

[HealingForMe]

Is there one person in the group you can take aside & tell them your situation in confidence? Make sure they know its important they dont discuss it with anyone. Then that way if something does happen you'll have at least one person on your side... .

Its a difficult situation. Good luck & stay strong

[Tausk]

Is there one person in the group you can take aside & tell them your situation in confidence? Make sure they know its important they dont discuss it with anyone. Then that way if something does happen you'll have at least one person on your side... .

Its a difficult situation. Good luck & stay strong

This is a good idea, so you don't feel so alone.  And yes I agree that unless it starts to get crazy, perhaps nothing is best.  Remember,  I you need to address anything, don't justify, accuse or defend your actions for anyone. Just calmly and unemotionally state your feelings and interpretation.

Depersonalize and be unemotional.  And remember the long run is what counts.  not the short.  And in the long run, your actions will come through.

[LuckyNicki]

There is one person I think i have a chance with.   But the problem is I have to gauge this person a bit.  He may not be able to understand the things that I am talking about.  Remember, it's weird for guys to be "emotionally abused" by a girl.  This is not even talking about BPD here... I can't imagine he wonks what BPD is... .

For all I know, he probably won't even understand emotional abuse due to stringing along (which what was happening to me for 2 months)  I only allowed myself to be strung along because I went soft on her due to her illness.  + she kept saying she loved me but couldnt be with me cuz of the C.  Then I find out I was just a crutch as she was developing with someone else. 

It was ROUGH. 

Right now, I'm just tryin to heal.  I feel the progress but man, I did not realize how difficult this was.  My emotions are just so up and down.  And other things trigger it outside.   It'll be a couple of weeks before that friendly event happens.  I am definitely watching out her ever movement. 

I honestly just want us to be friends.  I am able to forgive and let go even though she may have no idea what she has done.  She's going through a ton and it may have overwhelmed her and she started behaving extremely selfishly. 

But now I'm a bit worried she may be "angry" by my NC and may now potentially cause a rift amongst friends.  I'm honestly not sure how this is going to play out.  I hope it'll be as lighthearted as possible.   I think she may also be angry because she may sense that attachment is no longer there.  I am honestly not sure... .

Thank you guys for posting.  It's pretty therapeutic to hear from u guys.  Please post more if you have anymore thoughts and ideas.  It's helping me a ton... .

[LuckyNicki]

LuckyNicki... . I have heard those types of words and far far worse... .   trust me when you read here,it does not get better.  It gets worse each time - with each recycle, the next phase of devaluation becomes worse -more severe. 

How does it get worst after each recycle?  This is something that is kind of rough for me to swallow.  Are you saying that if say she recycles me, the conflict after that will be much worst? 

This sucks.  Can you elaborate more on that please? 

[Louise7777]

LN, I didnt want to answer you, cause I really didnt have anything nice to say. But since you mentioned it, I will. You talked about splitting the group. Or in this case, the group cutting you off.

I have seen that happening more than once. My uBPD/ NPD relative plays the divide and conquer tactic. If she´s displeased with somebody, she has to bring that person down. She has to revenge. And there´s no need of an ofense, its just HER perception of an ofense (lets say I wasnt available on a particular day to drive her to the doctor). They have this black and white thinking, once you are the bad guy, its hard to be friends again.

I really think its not possible for you to be friends with her. Although she cheated on you (or had open alternatives) its still your fault.

I once dated a guy for 3 or 4 months. Looking back, he is NPD. We had a group and when we split, I was outcasted and mocked by the group. Now I believe they had issues themselves. So, Id say be very careful and sense the waters. Dont defend yourself, keep the interactions with others in the same way, if possible. Although, if she begins to bad-mouth you, people will side with her. Be prepared for this worst case scenario, its a possibility. Wish you luck!

[Allmessedup]

I have recycled many many many times.  It gets worse... . way worse.

The "honeymoon" gets shorter and shorter, the devaluation increased, the silent treatment lasted longer and longer... . my ex got downright nasty.  It's almost like she got more and more desperate to push me away.

As bad as the push pull was in the beginning, it was worse at the end.  

I was with my ex for 3.5 years... . I have been nc for 10 weeks.   You have to take care of you... . She will take care of herself.  Read the ten beliefs that get us stuck... . it helped explain things a lot

[Take2]

LuckyNicki... . I have heard those types of words and far far worse... .   trust me when you read here,it does not get better.  It gets worse each time - with each recycle, the next phase of devaluation becomes worse -more severe. 

How does it get worst after each recycle?  This is something that is kind of rough for me to swallow.  Are you saying that if say she recycles me, the conflict after that will be much worst? 

This sucks.  Can you elaborate more on that please? 

Well obviously I can only answer speaking from my own experience and acknowledging that I sometimes didn't use the tools on the staying board as well as I should have at times.  But my ex has only become more and more paranoid as time has gone by.  He accuses me of cheating with about 100 different guys now (only a slight exaggeration and no I never cheated on him).  His anger each recycle, his justification for his anger with each recycle - when it started to go bad, would get worse and worse.  At first it slowly built up but then last year the rages went thru a period of increasing intensity - literally scaring me very badly.  He was never physical with me but I became very scared about it.  And as Allmessed up says, it doesn't matter that none of his accusations were true, it was his perception of them being true in his head.  Also - he got worse when he began cheating.  He had a need to paint me even blacker to justify his actions.  His actions of cheating, of lying to me, of raging at me and threatening my job, my home life, etc.  He did take some steps to ruin both.  Can't get into those - but at least with mine, he has a deep seated need to justify everything he does. 

The more recycles you allow yourself to go thru, and the worse the treatment gets, that teaches them that you will accept that behavior.  And each time it ends again, I can tell you the pain is that much worse for me. 

If you are considering going back to your partner if possible, please read up on the staying tools. 

But either way, believe what you read on here, it's very, very very rare for someone with this disorder to get better.  It's been wildly damaging to my self esteem.  And my own mental state. 

[Tausk]

Maybe consider finding a new hobby and getting a new support group of friends.  A pottery class might be just the trick 

Especially think about finding new friends that don't drink too much.  The booze is very likely not going to help you, your ex, or your interactions. 

Find people who are also givers and support them.  This will feed back into support for both of you. 

There are men who understand, but it does take time to find them.  In the meantime, are you seeing a therapist?  Seeing one really helped me.  Can't really hurt can it?

[LuckyNicki]

Ive considered a therapist but it's a bit costly at the moment. 

I am trying to make new friends but it's still kinda tough.  I also have a few women that I can hang out with but they are just nothing like that ex.

It blows me away.  A girl purposely got drunk so that she can sleep on my bed one night since "she couldn't drive home".  I didn't want to do ANYTHING with her.  I just put a pillow inbetween us and said "good night.  Sober up and drive home."  I think she felt rejected and left after 45 mins.

When we're really in love with some one we just don't have the heart to do go out and be with anyone else. So a lot of these BPD behavior just blew me away.

I even joined some events to network with some church groups, but it's kind of hard to be myself when I'm in a haze.  I actually opened up my story to them but they weren't intelligent enough to be able to grasp all the things i had to say.  I don't blame them.  BPD is something I didn't know about until i researched it.  So it didn't really help there.

This girl is a decent person underneath. The decency in her prior to our intimacy was what confused me the most.  I kept saying to myself "she will never do this to me, it just doesn't make any sense". 

But it is interesting that at the height of our honeymoon phase, she always hinted "if we don't work out, I'll be really happy for you when you find someone else".  I keep asking her "why would we not work out".  And I always thought she was talking about her C.

It's as if she knows something... . either she knows she has a problem or just knows she goes through men very fast.  I'm not sure what it is...

And we're not even talking about the C yet.  That's like a whole nother layer of complexities on it's own. 

Thanks for the replies and support. It's very therapeutic.

I'm about 1.5 months out and I am still thinking about her daily.

[goldylamont]

LuckyNicki that was plain cruel what she said to you. I will be as honest with you as I can--NO you cannot be friends with this person. Don't try and be nice to her at all at this point to try and 'be civil' because you are already wanting to be civil obviously but it doesn't matter when you're dealing with someone who doesn't give a damn about civility and prefers to fight dirty. Your 'civility' pisses her the hell off which is why she spoke to you in this manner, so this isn't the answer.

You've got to stop going to this group... . or at least you just have to give up on winning them over. You mention that you guys both decided to keep your r/s secret from everyone else because it wasn't 'serious'--but i suspect this was more a tactic that she was using from the beginning, because she knew she was going to get emotional with you but that later she would hate you anyways. It's probably status quo for her and happened many many times already so she knew going into things that if she kept your r/s secret that you would be in a weaker position to out her to the rest of the group. Plus she could sleep with other men, playing up the victim role of having cancer (which is terrible for anyone to deal with) and use secrecy so that you guys would keep quiet when the inevitable bad times occurred.

So you got played, and it hurts, and i think all of us here have gotten played, so don't think this has anything to do with your self worth or intelligence! Almost nobody is used to dealing with people capable of this level of deceit.

And, you're in that tricky situation many of us have experienced. You know you're dealing with a wolf in sheep's clothing. And there is a group of friends you don't want to be alienated from but this woman has the upper hand right now because you're actually just now realizing that you've falling into a game she's been playing long before she even met you or been diagnosed with cancer.

What i do in these situations is look at the worst case scenario and come to terms with this as a possibility. LuckyNicki you need to be able to walk away from her completely because she is *not* going to be civil. Furthermore you need to gather strength elsewhere and be able to walk away from this group--not that you have to or should walk away from the group at all. But what I'm saying is that you need to *accept* and manage any fears associated with losing this group as friends. If you talk nasty about this woman you'll look like an arsehole to everyone so you can't blatantly do this. On top of that you can definitely count on her telling lies and/or devaluing you to other people *without you knowing*. Why? Because her power is in secrecy. But your power is in the Truth.

The harsh reality is that at worst she may smear your reputation to anyone she feels like she needs to if she even thinks you are stepping out of line--you are to shut up and act like nothing ever happened between you two (for now), be 'nice' and perfectly ok with whoever she is sleeping with, and never mention anything negative or suspect about her behaviors. This is the role she wants you to play--but you can't, and you shouldn't.

Since we've already discussed that you saying overt nasty things about her won't do anything but make you look foolish... . you either need to completely stay away from her (and the group if she's with them) and wait for her to make enemies on her own and for them to see the light on their own. I think it's also perfectly OK to mention something to a trusted friend about the situation--you shouldn't have to live in fear or shame about having slept with her! But just know that it takes time for the truth to fully come out. And you always want to be as calm and collected as possible when revealing anything because people may very well take her side instead of yours until she reveals her true nature to them (could be months down the line).

I'd say let one or two trusted individuals know that you won't be hanging out because you don't feel comfortable. And live your life to the fullest elsewhere until the dust settles. Never say anything too mean or desperate about the situation as this will just make you look angry and weak. But be truthful and come from a place of not trying to hurt your ex. Tell *your* truth but do it with dignity! Then, bow out and let the chips fall where they may. Let people make up their own minds and find your happiness elsewhere.

And please know this: She is not your friend anymore, she is someone you have to manage, and she doesn't play fair (or want your 'help', or to be 'fixed' or to be 'civil'.

[LuckyNicki]

Your 'civility' pisses her the hell off which is why she spoke to you in this manner, so this isn't the answer.

You've got to stop going to this group... . or at least you just have to give up on winning them over. You mention that you guys both decided to keep your r/s secret from everyone else because it wasn't 'serious'--but i suspect this was more a tactic that she was using from the beginning, because she knew she was going to get emotional with you but that later she would hate  their own.

Thank you for your reply.  I have a couple of questions.

Why do you think my being civil is pissing her off?

And I know i got played but her behavior could very well be a mix of BPD and cancer right. Causing the volatile emotions.

You said she may know that she'lll get emotional with me and that this will happen.  So are you saying she is aware of her condition (BPD) or at least aware of relationship pattern?  And plotted things to prepare when she'll split?

Thank you again for your reply.


I just feel like being civil is the best play for now.  She has no clue that I am on to her.  And yes, I am prepared to walk away from this group.   I just think I should feel out the dynamics a bit and then decide how else to go about this.

Thoughts please?

[GreenMango]

My guess would be you being civil isn't very validating.   It's the reasonable thing to do if especially if you have mutual friends or work connections etc.  If a person has BPD and they are dysphoric (anxious lonely despair fear and anger) this is generally when they will do impulsive things to get those feelings to go away . If you are managing your emotions well and look to be handling it okay but she isn't it points a spot light on it.

I agree with Goldy looking to win this group over will only exacerbate the conflict.  It also draws people into a Karpman Triangle in a bad way.

If you have a close friend to talk with you are entitled to talk.  If you have some friends from this group it may be an option to forego attending her cancer support group gatherings and inviting the friends out individually. 

Detachment sometimes is more than just emotions its also a logistical issue that requires some alternative adjustments to regular life.  It can be difficult to make these adjustments.

[LuckyNicki]

My guess would be you being civil isn't very validating.   It's the reasonable thing to do if especially if you have mutual friends or work connections etc.  If a person has BPD and they are dysphoric (anxious lonely despair fear and anger) this is generally when they will do impulsive things to get those feelings to go away . If you are managing your emotions well and look to be handling it okay but she isn't it points a spot light on it.

I agree with Goldy looking to win this group over will only exacerbate the conflict.  It also draws people into a Karpman Triangle in a bad way.

If you have a close friend to talk with you are entitled to talk.  If you have some friends from this group it may be an option to forego attending her cancer support group gatherings and inviting the friends out individually. 

Detachment sometimes is more than just emotions its also a logistical issue that requires some alternative adjustments to regular life.  It can be difficult to make these adjustments.

Hmm.  Being civil isn't validating.  Im just trying to figure out what you mean.   Is it because a BPD needs validation in that she would want to see me still "wanting" her? 

And being civil while not wanting her is what will make her angry? 

[GreenMango]

I know it doesn't seem rational. well it would be rational to most people who have a good handle on their emotions.

Just to backtrack a little on the clinical info if she has BPD there is a couple things at play.  One is generally there is a lack of boundaries which is also emotional.  So there can be a need for someome with BPD to have a need for matched emotions from others.  I.e. Shes upset and you need to be upset.  It could be she still wants you and needs you to want her too without recalling or having a realistic interpretation of the events that lead to the demise of the relationship.   That would be a surface level validation.  It's called enmeshment.  There's a tendency in these relationships to have a history of enmeshment going both ways.

What generally you'll notice in the staying board is people practicing higher level validation with a healthier level of boundaries.  This looks different than having matched emotions to validate and moves towards acknowledge and hearing the other persons feelings but staying away from behaving in ways that are enabling or destructive.

When things shift away from the enmeshment there can be push back in the form of extinction bursts ... . ramping up of behavior, sometimes it's hostility or tantrums, to get back to the way things were and the soothing effect that enmeshment had on the those feelings of dysphoria.

As far as making her angry, I don't know one person that loves to be rejected, but with a person with BPD it's the inability to manage uncomfortable feelings which sometimes result in impulsive behavior and hostility. So civility on your end may not be met with civility on hers.  She's going to have a hard time understanding your point of view here and the need for some space or a healthier relationship dynamic.

Are you trying to manage a friendly acquaintance type relationship?  She may have had the expectation that with her illness you would be there regardless of her behavior or its effect on the relationship.

[LuckyNicki]

Are you trying to manage a friendly acquaintance type relationship?  She may have had the expectation that with her illness you would be there regardless of her behavior or its effect on the relationship.

You are most likely right that she had the expectations that I'd still be regardless of her behavior.   The problem that I had with this whole thing is that I was lead to believe that we did not get together because of her illness. 

It was as if she played the part of being a genuine person and that she didn't want me to "suffer" through all that.  She told me she wanted to do it alone. 

And that's what lead me to be strung along because how can I just walk away from someone that I love, and that claims to love me and allow her to just go through it. 

I told her that I understood and that I will be there for her to chat.  Which is like having a needle in my heart but it's fine because her situation is much worst. 

Then I find out that she started seeing an ex.  And the times when she was physically capable of seeing me, she flaked.  A lot of times it was because she ended up not feeling good that day.

Then requesting space started happening etc. Told me her love for me was in a "storage", and that she "compartmentalizes".  This is kind of crazy because those two words are used often when I read about BPD and their love.  So it feels like she knows a bit more about herself.

After those discussions, I found out later she had been with an ex.  So it's like the request for space is to relieve one's guilt of some kind.

I'm not really sure what kind of friendship I want.  At this point, it's all about healing and trying to move on.  But as of right now, she is going through C issues so I do want to support during her fight with that.  Obviously, I have to be at a distance.

The last thing I want is to cause havoc while she's stressing over her body. 

[GreenMango]

My experience with a person with BPD was there were a lot of conflicting messages and lots of contradictions.   It's hard to have aa relationship when this is going on.

Obviously you care.  She's going thru a tough time.  It's hard to strike a balance between the two where you are able to be supportive and still detached enough to not get drawn into the romantic relationship part.

What some people do is take some time away to get a handle on their own feelings, reassess their boundaries and figure out a way forward that matches their needs and values.

Wanting a relationshipwhere there is stability, consistency and fidelity is reasonable.  Expecting it with her may not be possible.  The slow detachment and shifting gears towards less contact and more formality may help you lessen the bond with her. 

I notice some guilt when you said you don't want to cause her body more stress. What are you worried about in your conduct that may do that?

[LuckyNicki]

My experience with a person with BPD was there were a lot of conflicting messages and lots of contradictions.   It's hard to have aa relationship when this is going on.

I notice some guilt when you said you don't want to cause her body more stress. What are you worried about in your conduct that may do that?

There were conflicting messages, mixed messages, future faking (ideals), and definitely contradictions.  It's as if she did just enough to keep me from not moving on.  When I would flip over her bailing out, she'll somehow make up for it.  I felt like safety net for her.

Calling her out on what she did to me will cause some drama.  If she has BPD, she may stress and act erratic.  Talking to a friend in the mutual friends group might start a fire as well.  These feel very unnecessary as she may be battling her life. 

It's just one of those circumstances where I know I just have walk away while also be civil because if I don't show up to these friends events, they will probably believe something is up.  They rarely get together and they try to accommodate the schedule for everyone.  And also, i feel like her and I are kind of the life of the party there so there will be something missing if one of us doesn't show.   

... .

[goldylamont]

It's just one of those circumstances where I know I just have walk away while also be civil because if I don't show up to these friends events, they will probably believe something is up.  They rarely get together and they try to accommodate the schedule for everyone.  And also, i feel like her and I are kind of the life of the party there so there will be something missing if one of us doesn't show.

first, greenmango is always on point so heed his insights.

also i wanted to clarifiy before about what i meant about being civil, and this possibly angering her. i didn't mean to suggest that you shouldn't act in a civil fashion--if you can you should always be civil as possible with her and the group (and yourself). but what i'm saying is that you being civil to her does *not* mean she will return the favor. in fact, we already know this because of your first post--you were being completely civil and empathetic by telling her that you still cared for her; that you would be there for her regardless -- and she answered in the classic BPD fashion of saying something nasty to hurt you. so you already know she's primed to not respond to you being nice. doesn't mean you should be un-civil with your interactions, just know she's not going to return the favor unless she sees some temporary selfish value in it.

this is why i'm saying you have to remove yourself from the equation and/or the group altogether. i just don't want to see you here a month from now saying "i went to the group and gave her space, was completely nice! she still acted abusive and i found out she was lying to people and spreading rumors!" << i want you to see this before it happens. it doesn't matter how civil you are LN this is very much a possibility. you're probably thinking to yourself "noo, she wouldn't do that... ", but many here have been through worse so I'm telling you that it is possible, if not likely.

as far as your civility angering her--i should explain more here also. you have to understand that she's treating you terribly because she fully feels emboldened to do so. because you are a piece of poo to her now, because she's into her ex and you aren't her concern. she feels that you deserve to be punished -- don't try to make sense of this; part of radical acceptance is just accepting that this is true. her feelings for you probably cycle through the whole gambit between love and hate, contempt or not caring at all. and you'll never know what you're going to get.

as an example, imagine if she did something bad to you then later came back and was 'civil' with you--how would you respond? what if she keyed your car and cut up all your clothes and made out with her ex on your bed, took pictures and sent them to you. then, the next time she saw you was all civil like 'hi LuckyNicki, just wanted you to know i'm there for ya if you need me  " you would probably tell her to go to hell. BPD's imagine all sorts of terrible things and project shame and nastiness onto their partners, so she probably feels a lot of contempt towards you now. and you being civil will just piss her off, because she's not done punishing you yet for being the horrible being you are--does this make sense?

and also LN, please do yourself a favor and trust your gut instincts on this. YES she knows that you would not like it when she started sleeping with her ex. BPDs are very keen on being cheated on so they are well aware that this is not OK. If she was totally unaware that her behavior was unacceptable, then how come she so craftily hid from you that she was seeing her ex? Why all the secrets and her not wanting anyone to know that you two were seeing each other? Because word would get out to her ex and she wouldn't want that to happen. She wants him when she wants him and wants you when she wants you. She tires of him when she does and the same with you. It has nothing to do with you, your behaviors, or civility.

[goldylamont]

It's just one of those circumstances where I know I just have walk away while also be civil because if I don't show up to these friends events, they will probably believe something is up.

Then let them believe it. You'll find you don't have a choice in the matter. You could go to the event, fake as if you are unaffected (hurting yourself in the process) and still things will only turn out as good as the lowest common denominator. It's not your fault that things are uncomfortable--have you been deceitful, uncaring, promiscuous?

Don't go because it sounds like it's going to set you back and make you uncomfortable. Don't fall into the trap of thinking you will help or fix anything--it's not in your power, furthermore it's not your job to do so. The most positive thing you can do is find happiness elsewhere. << and because your emotions are involved this is also the most challenging thing to do--so we are here for you LuckyNicki! 

Go see a movie that night, ask a friend out for food/drinks. Take a nature walk. Workout. Do anything else that you've got on your bucket list... .

And finally--prepare something to say when people from the group (or your ex) start asking why you didn't go. Wondering what to say? ASK US  folks here are geniuses in this regard and I think would fully support and walk you through this difficult situation.

just please, don't keep on the path of keeping secrets and playing her game, i don't want to see you hurting any more than you've already endured. take care

[LuckyNicki]

It's just one of those circumstances where I know I just have walk away while also be civil because if I don't show up to these friends events, they will probably believe something is up.  They rarely get together and they try to accommodate the schedule for everyone.  And also, i feel like her and I are kind of the life of the party there so there will be something missing if one of us doesn't show.

as an example, imagine if she did something bad to you then later came back and was 'civil' with you--how would you respond? what if she keyed your car and cut up all your clothes and made out with her ex on your bed, took pictures and sent them to you. then, the next time she saw you was all civil like 'hi LuckyNicki, just wanted you to know i'm there for ya if you need me  " you would probably tell her to go to hell. BPD's imagine all sorts of terrible things and project shame and nastiness onto their partners, so she probably feels a lot of contempt towards you now. and you being civil will just piss her off, because she's not done punishing you yet for being the horrible being you are--does this make sense?

and also LN, please do yourself a favor and trust your gut instincts on this. YES she knows that you would not like it when she started sleeping with her ex. BPDs are very keen on being cheated on so they are well aware that this is not OK. If she was totally unaware that her behavior was unacceptable, then how come she so craftily hid from you that she was seeing her ex? Why all the secrets and her not wanting anyone to know that you two were seeing each other? Because word would get out to her ex and she wouldn't want that to happen. She wants him when she wants him and wants you when she wants you. She tires of him when she does and the same with you. It has nothing to do with you, your behaviors, or civility.

Wow, is being split back really that bad?  Is she really going to view me as an enemy?

I thank you guys for your responses, and I will definitely keep it in the back of my head as I am not fully experience with BPDs.  She shows a tremendous amount of evidence as being a BPD, especially with that recent comment regarding "id rather commmit suicide than come to you for help".

The thing I'm wondering is that if my actions of "going no NC" to heal myself is something that will cause her to initiate deceptive emasculation when we are with this group of friends.

I do know that the only leverage I have right now is that she would not want to look bad in front of these friends.  I know that she does not want her actions to be revealed to these friends.  She does seem to praise her reputation to a certain group of individuals (friends of 10+ years). 

It was me that got the short end of the stick only because I feel in love with her and got closer to her than any of these people. 

So now the question is, do you guys really believe she is going to use subtle tactics to cause problems when we are with our mutual friends? 

Is that what being splitted black by a BPD really is all about?

Please let me know.  Because at this point, I don't think I can avoid that gathering.  But if you guys truly believe it's that "evil" being split to black, I will definitely guard myself of it and make certain that I have an exit plan when I do sense something is going on.

I feel as if she should want to be as civil on this as much as I want to be civil.

Do you really believe that she will use "my offering for being friends" to do something that would just hurt me for vengeance/malice reasonings? 

I do know for certain that if she does get out of hand, I will initiate contacting one of the group. 

I feel as if her only cards are to use subtle emasculating techniques.  The only thing I would be vulnerable is that I cave in to her seduction and she uses that as a way to reject me.   

But my defense to that is to find a way to become fully detached... .


Thank you so much btw guys for your response.  I can tell you took a lot of time for those long responses.  Just know I truly appreciate them and it makes me feel a whole lot better as I heal for this circumstance.  Thank you so much.

[goldylamont]

answers inline:

Wow, is being split back really that bad?  

my understanding is yes it is. actually probably worse than any of us can imagine. pwBPD have very strong emotional reactions of both love... . and hate. i was sleeping with my ex and in the middle of the night she woke me up sobbing, tears and all. she was still asleep so i woke her up and asked her what was wrong. she told me she had a dream that i was having sex with some other girl in our bed and that she walked in on us. and that i turned around and saw her and started cursing and berating her. i'm willing to bet she had a lot of emotions (unwarranted by anything in reality) during our 4 yr r/s.

Is she really going to view me as an enemy?

she probably has gone through cycles of seeing you as an enemy, then friend, then lover, much earlier than you would think. it's only now that *you* are noticing it. but it probably started long time ago. yes.

The thing I'm wondering is that if my actions of "going no NC" to heal myself is something that will cause her to initiate deceptive emasculation when we are with this group of friends.

depends. thing is there would be no way for you to prove it. passive aggressive tactics are the worst and the only 'counter-attack' is to be ready to walk away. what if she does *nothing*? like acts as if you don't exist at all? what if she starts talking about how much she loves her new bf, or (one of) her exes in front of everybody as if you don't even exist? who knows. what you can't count on is her showing any type of empathy for you.

I do know that the only leverage I have right now is that she would not want to look bad in front of these friends.  I know that she does not want her actions to be revealed to these friends.  She does seem to praise her reputation to a certain group of individuals (friends of 10+ years).  

exactly. so best for you to not play her games and try and act as if everything is OK when it isn't with you. if people wonder why you're not around then let them come to you or just don't worry about it. if you go into the lions den though, you're on her turf.

So now the question is, do you guys really believe she is going to use subtle tactics to cause problems when we are with our mutual friends?

Is that what being splitted black by a BPD really is all about?

none of us can say what she will/won't do. i can only tell you from my direct experience, and my reading of others that her using "subtle tactics to cause problems with mutual friends"--this is only child's play LN. this is more plain vanilla. some people here deal with false charges of domestic abuse, physical abuse, blatant cheating, using their own children as weapons to hurt the spouse. there are no rules. i knew my ex for 4 years, lived with her for nearly 2. she was often difficult and i feel unfair, but the majority of the time i think we had a good r/s. once we really broke up though, and ever since then, it's like i don't know who this person is. she lied to mutual friends and said i was emotionally abusive and that i cheated on her--i didn't find out till 1.5 years later. by this time she had gone thru 2 more "serious" r/s lasting a few months each which ended with fireworks, hatred, betrayal... . you know big drama. then a year after we separate she moves back into my neighborhood 3 houses down the street. i'm very fortunate as i don't fear any physical attacks and we stay out of each others way--but what's creepy is, guess what she told me about the bf she had before me: he cheated on her... . and oh wow wouldn't you know when i first started dating her, she just *happened* to be living about a block or so away from him! , i'm ok with this an made my peace (mostly) with it, but want to give you some insight to how little she cares about your feelings or boundaries.

Please let me know.  Because at this point, I don't think I can avoid that gathering.  But if you guys truly believe it's that "evil" being split to black, I will definitely guard myself of it and make certain that I have an exit plan when I do sense something is going on.

I feel as if she should want to be as civil on this as much as I want to be civil.

you have to stop doing this. you have to stop projecting your way of being onto her. what behaviors has she shown you so far that makes you feel that she wants to be civil? it's a very hard thing to digest. and i don't want to vilify her unnecessarily, that's not the goal. but you have to look at what she's already done--this is what she will continue to do: deceive and take advantage of you. now that you've shown that you can walk away for a while and go NC; then you're not giving her the on-demand emotional boost she needs, so she'll find it with other men/women, and when she tires of them you'll notice her being extremely comforting and nice to you, while you are useful to her, until she gets tired of you again.

Do you really believe that she will use "my offering for being friends" to do something that would just hurt me for vengeance/malice reasonings?

probably. you're going to receive (or continue to receive) the brunt end of her anger and resentment for something or someone who victimized her decades ago. whatever it is you put on the chopping block--your 'love', offer to be friends, anything that means something to you, or oh gosh don't let her know any insecurities you might have. because yes these are exactly the things she will use to hurt you whenever she feels the need.

I feel as if her only cards are to use subtle emasculating techniques.  

YEEES. God my ex was the master of this. You're already picking up on these things instinctively. You already know, but you are still at the stage of not wanting to believe this is really her. I know it's hard, but I've scanned some of your earlier posts. She's already doing this stuff. Not just to you, but to all your bfs. It's not going to stop. Don't be "that guy" LuckyNicki, trust your instincts and see it for what it is.

The only thing I would be vulnerable is that I cave in to her seduction and she uses that as a way to reject me.  

But my defense to that is to find a way to become fully detached... .

Thank you so much btw guys for your response.  I can tell you took a lot of time for those long responses.  Just know I truly appreciate them and it makes me feel a whole lot better as I heal for this circumstance.  Thank you so much.

LuckyNicki, from what I've read you are only at the start of the bad behavior. It could blow over if she doesn't feel threatened, but who knows what she's thinking? Which is why I'm recommending you remove yourself from the equation.

Nothing that any of us will tell you though may fully answer the deep question you are wrangling with -- "is she really *that* bad? would she do that to *me*?" i can express my opinion on the matter but you may need to experience more of what she's doing to fully convince yourself. so, my advice is to go forth carefully, set boundaries on how much isht you're willing to put up with. know in advance what you will say to her or to friends--always as calm/collected as possible, then come here and vent to us. if you feel the need to go back to the meeting, well strategically i don't think it best, but if you do, then OK. you seem to have a lot of awareness already you may need more real world proof to make your final decision. just take care of yourself as much as possible.