My borderline husband is possessed by a demon.

[Gloria_Patch]

I used to be another support group website about something completely unrelated. And for over a year I posted periodically, and only once I mentioned a religious point of view, and they moved my post to some desert of a topic thread. So, I hope this doesn't happen with this post. I don't remember too well the rules on the forum.

I'm not really a religious nut. I do have a minor in Catholic Theology. But I also have a degree in Physics. And I am in the performing arts community. Anyway, I'm just going to come out and say this: My borderline husband is possessed by a demon. I do not think all mentally ill people are possessed. I have a friend who is borderline. I have two very close family members who have a mental illnesses. I do not think any of them are possessed. I think demon possession is rare. But my husband is.

Soo, let me begin.

Backstory: My husband is both an alcoholic and borderline. His mother, I believe, is VERY borderline, and I think there is a sub-category for female borderlines, called "The Witch" persona. My mother-in-law was in foster care for 2 years when she was younger. At 17, she had an affair with her sister's husband and that is how her son, my husband, was conceived.

I believe the way my husband was conceived makes him especially vulnerable to demons. I think his mother's emotional, and sometimes physical, abuse made him even more vulnerable. And when he started doing drugs and drinking as a teen, he had somehow let a demon in. And he was possessed. He has a celtic cross on his back, but he is a devout atheist.

(1) My husband is naturally a little clumsy. When he drinks, he actually becomes more coordinated. His eyes do not turn red. His speech does not slur. When I used to drink with him, we'd do things that every young people who are intoxicated do, playing music, chatting, etc... . But after about an hour in, I might be talking, and, out of no where, he'd say something very cutting. And then, I'd turn around, there'd be a different, eerie, sly look on his face and a little smirk. His eyes would appear striking. The whole countenance of his face would be just different. And then I'd know that he is not himself anymore. And the evil things he'd say would just pass my intellect and strike my whole being. And he'd say my name in a very mocking, creepy tone, "Gloria... . " and it would just send me shivers. My name isn't Gloria in real life, by the way.

Anyway, he got sober for about a year. Basically, everything was great. He was still borderline, every 10-14 days, there'd be an episode where he suddenly becomes silent or mood swings, we'd fight and after about 6-8 hours, the fight was over. But everything was peaceful. And then I got pregnant. And when the baby was about 3-5 weeks, he relapsed.

And here is why I say demon possession: 43 “When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44 Then it says, ‘I will return to the house I left.’ When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. 45 Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first.” Matthew 12:43-45

So, my husband, this man... . He has become, uh, just about 7 times worse that he was in the beginning of the relationship. And I found the beginning of the relationship to be utterly unacceptable. In the beginning, he called me "easy" or a "whore" a very few times, and I'd just be very aghast. Then he'd apologize quickly, after the alcohol was out of his system. I chalked it up on the alcohol, because I used to drink too much, and I knew how alcohol brings out the worst. But now, after the baby, he calls me names like "c-nt" "nasty whore" "f---ing bhit" etc. He doesn't apologize. And he screams it now. And it happens ALL the time. And I can tell you this, I have never heard my father or my mother say these words. I have never given anyone the impression that I could be bullied. I have no idea where he thinks that I would allow this. However, being a Christian and someone who has family who are mentally ill, I tried to understand his illness and work with it.

So, his new, super evil, persona has been around for 4 months. Recently, he blew up on me. And he packed his bags and left. And I refused to let him back in, because I had talked to a therapist that told me that he was a serious danger to me and the baby. So, I ignored my husband's texts and phone calls. But after a few days, I responded, because deep down, I want to believe that I can bring him back to that nice, peaceful, man I knew for a year. So, I was telling myself that maybe he had Asperger's syndrome or something else... . So, when I finally opened communication, he texted something like, "blah, blah, blah, miss." And I thought that was eerie, because the language of the word "miss" just isn't the way he talks. But anyway, he said something that pierced my soul. And it struck me so deep, that I felt like self-destructing... . And I haven't felt that way in years. And I looked at my 5 month old son. I think I said a prayer. I bought some candy. And I just came back and felt like, "No." There is something evil. It wasn't a man talking to me. It was demon. And then I looked at my son again, and he just got so happy.

Look, I feel very cautious of calling things possessed or evil or believing in demonic possession. But everything about him... . It just isn't him. I know the boy I married. And it isn't him when he says those things. Because they are too evil. And they are too piercing. And only the devil knows me well enough to pierce my soul in that way. My husband is possessed.

And I'll share a few facts about demon possession:

(1) A demon possessed person is dangerous, because he is not in control of himself. His need for gratification can eclipse whatever pain or suffering his actions may cause. When a person has no empathy for others and no controlling sense of right and wrong, everyone around that person is at risk.

(2) The only way out of demonic possession is diving intervention. Medical science cannot exorcize a demon. An ordinary person cannot help someone who is demon possessed and neither can a possessed person cast out a demon who has consumed him.

Basically, no one can take the demon out, except for God. And we all know that God works on HIS time. We are His servants. He is not ours. We cannot force HIS hand.

Why I believe borderlines are possessed:

(1) No empathy

(2) Capacity to hate. Being able to fully hate another individual is very rare. The word hate is very strong. Not to be overlooked.

(3) Being two completely different people. Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde. That's very strange. No one is ever two people.

(4) One therapist wrote an article saying to never tell a borderline confidential and sensitive, information about yourself, because they will use that against you. If anyone has ever seen a movie about demon possession. And if the protagonist is in the room and doesn't know the demon possessed person, right, then the demon will look at the protagonist, and say something to the protagonist that is a dark secret and hurtful. And the protagonist will be aghast at the knowledge.

(5) I saw an article that a therapist wrote for other therapists guiding them on how to not let their borderline patients cause them self-esteem damage. Borderlines are so good at hurting people, even therapists get hurt. The number one disordered individuals that therapist do not like treating is borderlines.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. If you think your borderline is possessed, you can't cure them, they can't cure themselves, and neither can a therapist. So, LEAVE.

[Conundrum]

Those are interesting metaphysical thoughts. The notion of a harmful spirit being in control of the being can be viewed allegorically-possession of the being, possession of the mind, possession of the personality. Perhaps, the latter comes closest to an apt description. But possession may be perceived as an allegory for the inability to change. Possession implying being stuck in a harmful state of consciousness.

Not very different than under the influence. There are many substances and events that can alter our consciousness's and disturb the personality. Some temporary, some permanent, such as in organic brain damage.

Here though with this particular disorder, is there truly an empirical inability to change--to progress? I do not think so. Recalcitrance (being stuck) can appear to exist on an almost subconscious level, yet we know with BPD that a defensive mask has been installed at the most formative of ages. That mask becomes so integrated with the personality of the individual that they lose the ability to perceive who they were or could have been absent the core trauma. They lose track of their self of origin and only know the disturbed self that forcibly displaced the nascent personality. It is difficult to change when one has no familiarity with whom they are supposed to change into--hence being possessed by the inability to change. That is why structured tools such as mindfulness, DBT, schema therapy and  metalization are all extremely important agents of change. How diligently the pwBPD chooses to invest in those therapies and where they may lead the person on their journey to finding the lost self will always vary on a case-by-case basis--but the prognosis for substantial systemic improvement should never be discounted. This is a treatable disorder.

For me the Buddhist perspective on "changing our minds" illustrates a good deal of common sense:

"We can become better people by changing our mind. Only by changing our mind can we become good people and have a good life. If we don’t change our mind by trying to recognize which thoughts give harm and which bring only peace—if we keep the same mind as we had before, we can never improve ourselves. If we do not try to change; if we constantly keep the same harmful thoughts all the time, then our mind doesn’t change and our life doesn’t change. We can never become better people"

Only transforming the mind—changing the mind from one full of harmful thoughts into a good mind—only that brings peace to ourselves and to other sentient beings. By changing this, our negative personality changes. Renouncing the mind of the harmful thoughts, we no longer have a bad personality—we have a good personality. That’s how we become good people and have a happy life, free from confusion. Then we have a meaningful life.

Therefore, the first thing we need to do is to recognize what makes us harm ourselves and others. We need to recognize the bad thoughts that give us a bad personality. We need to see the mistakes of this; how it makes our life so complicated and unhappy. If we only look at the good things, we won’t see the cause of our unhappiness and we won’t be able to distinguish wrong actions from right ones. By recognizing wrong thoughts and wrong actions, we can recognize the opposite; positive thoughts and positive actions. So, the teachings begin by explaining harmful thoughts and actions, and the shortcomings of harmful thoughts and actions. In this way, the teachings become like a mirror to our mind, to our life.

When the teachings explain the shortcomings of wrong thoughts and actions, it is necessary to recognize and be aware of this happening in our own mind. To see, “Yes! these delusions really do bring these problems! If I follow disturbing negative thoughts like this, of course I’ll have these kinds of problems.” We should be aware of the shortcomings of the delusions like this. Instead of thinking, “Oh, I am oneness with the delusions. The delusions are me and I am the delusions,” we should recognize that delusions happen, but they are not an integral part of us. They are not oneness with our mind, therefore we are able to renounce them. If we associate ourselves with our delusions, when the teachings say we must renounce or destroy the delusions, we might think we are being told to destroy ourselves. Thinking like that is a completely wrong way of understanding the teachings. Therefore, if we don’t know how to listen the teachings, it can be a great hindrance. When the teachings talk about the shortcomings of delusions, we shouldn’t think this means that is how we are and will always be. The teachings describe the shortcomings to help us understand why we suffer and to show us how to renounce the delusions.

[maxen]

you know Gloria, your diocese, if it is large enough, may have someone who can help with that.

(claim to fame: i read the gospel of john (as a greek translation course) with the priest who taught william peter blatty in h.s. and advised on a certain movie)

though maybe he has Tourette's?

[Gloria_Patch]

Hi, Conundrum,

I love that Buddhist philosophy. I think it is very useful to non-borderlines who are struggling with their own personal "demons" in the figurative.

But I do also believe in real demons. For those of the Christian faith, we unfortunately really do have to believe in evil, because it says evil does exist in the Bible. Why I say unfortunately is because believing in an unknown, unseen force can dangerously lead to irrational thoughts, persecution, and insanity.

A main reason why I concluded demon possession is because borderlines have to take someone down with them. Most of the other mental illnesses I've seen, the person isolates themselves or just kind of minds their own business. I've seen my husband. And he seems jealous that I don't drink. One time, I got so fed up. The baby was with my mother. And I was just about to buy liquor and meet my husband, and say "F--- it. Let's have a drink together." But then my mother called me and said, "I have this feeling that John (not my husband's real name) wants you to drink. Whatever you do, Gloria, do not drink with him." Now, at the time, I didn't believe that John wanted me to drink. But her call woke me up. And so, I didn't drink. I still do not think that John wants me to drink. But his demon does. I do believe that there is a man I married who is a person who loves me. I do not believe he hates me. But I believe he is possessed. And now, I realize that there is nothing I can do to save him.

Also, I have never met his mother, believe it or not. She has always kept her distance. But when the baby was born, she became much more involved. When I threw out my husband the first time (I've let him back over the course of the 4 months), when my son was 5 weeks, she called child services. It was right before the holidays, Thanksgiving and Christmas. The baby could have spent his first Christmas in government care. And as I've read from other people, borderlines LOVE to fight for custody. They do not care about the health of the child. It isn't because they really want to see the child. It is solely to wreck havoc on the child. They use children as pawns. And children are the most innocent forms of human beings. Humans are God's most prized creation. The devil hates humans.

When I was younger, I met an actor, who is relatively famous. He was in one of my favorite movies of all time, at that time. He was a drug addict. He used to come by my place and ask for money or just hang around. One time, I was robbed by some aquaintances. The banks were closed. So, I had a few bucks. This actor came by with two thugs. He asked for money. I gave him the few bucks. He bought his drug from the thugs. And all of us were chatting. The actor lit up his drug pipe. And in mid conversation, the thugs just stopped chatting and their eyes lit up with the pipe. And they seemed hypnotized. I felt they were possessed. So, I promised myself never to see that actor again. A week later, someone innocent died, because of that actor.

There are demons. They are rare. But they LOVE to take someone down with them.


Hi Maxen,

What movie? And, I wish it was Tourette's. Honestly, Asperger's seems closer. But again, I feel something more sinister.

[maxen]

(del.)

[Skip]

bpdfamily.com/bpdfamily is a clinically based support group and we ask members to stay away from any use of terms like evil and demonic possession to describe others.  While we have clinical consultants to help us reliably navigate psychology concepts, we do not have experts in the field of demonic possession.

We actively embrace religious teaching here as they relate to ourselves, but not to be used in judgment of others. 

We also ask that, unless specified by the OP, that any religious discussion stay within the boundaries of that religion and not crossover into others.  For example, if a Baptist is asking a question about divorce, we ask members to stay within the teachings of the Baptist Church when answering.

[Perfidy]

Hi Gloria, yeah, a whole nother animal with that demonic possession. Your post reminded me of a book that was written by a clinical psychologist in which he addressed the subject of demonic possession and exorcism. Understandably, it is a controversial work. The Dr. Sat in on some sessions where clergy performed exorcism. If you are interested the book is called The People of the Lie. written by M. Scott Peck. It is available in audio book format with the author doing the reading. The doctor discusses the need to study evil as a mental illness. I found it interesting.

[Gloria_Patch]

Wow... . That is really interesting, Perfidy. I'll look that up.

Someone once told me: "Anyone who does not judge has no right to judge those who do judge."

Speaking of all this. I posted this demon possession theory yesterday. Then yesterday, my husband showed up at my door. I didn't let him in. I asked my mother to come over. I suspected he was drunk (Remember for some reason, when he's drunk, it just doesn't show. No symptoms. Except for his extreme hate and paranoia), because he tried to push his way in and was asking where the baby was... . Which the baby was in the home... . with me... . But my husband wanted to get in to see if there was a guy in my house... . Which is weird because it was in the afternoon, and the jealousy nonsense is just scary. I had my ring on. And he asked me if I had gotten married... . ? So because the therapist told me that he was a danger to me and the baby, the police had to escort him in to get his books. Because that was all that was in the home that he could claim. Although, half the books were mine. And, of course, he took stole them too. The day before, I had blocked his number. So, he had started calling my mom, insulting and harassing her. Everything was just strange. I went to the store and bought some chips and the total was $6.66.

Nevertheless, I'm just saying that this is a crazy nightmare. I'm constantly harassed. The baby is a pawn. I feel like I can't protect my son. It is like a tornado.

[woodsposse]

 

I can't begin to get into all the demon speak mainly because, even though being born and raised Catholic, I don't believe in that and the things we are talking about here have a physiological  and psychological reasoning behind it.  that's just me.

Outside of the coincidence that, with sales tax in your area, something wrang up to the six dollars and sixty six sense (which in and of itself is just a number)  - I'm more concerned that they behaviors you are describing is of an unsettled, angry, substance abuser.

Alcohol is a depressant.  Not a stimulant.  Yes, it can make people feel eurphic for a while, but it is a depressant and lowers inhibitions and all sorts of things come out.  It sounds to me that there are years of pain hiding away under the surface... . truths left unspoken... . hurts which haven't healed - and they come flying out during these episodes.

I have been drunk a few times in my life.  sometimes it is very obvious I'm intoxicated - others you can't tell.  But physically, I'm still drunk whether I'm falling down drunk, happy dancing all night drunk, or letting the inner hurt child come out and play (or argue or whatever).

I would be more concerned for your safety than rather Pazuzu has infested the corporeal body of your spouse.  I would be more concerned for his mental wellness than labeling what is going on as something unworldly... . because everything you are saying is text book alcoholism.

I do pray for the peace you need in your life and the wellness you deserve.  But the root cause, in my opinion, isn't demonic spirits... . it's the sprits fermented in a bottle or a keg and ingested allowing past traumas which never healed to come to the forefront.

[Gloria_Patch]

I don't know what Pazuzu is. But I agree with you. Let's see... . we have a mother who is in foster care. Sexual abuse happens there. She sleeps with her sister's husband and has her son, my husband, at 17. Chances are that she's promiscuous. So when my husband was young, he was exposed to many men coming in and out. So, that is why he is jealous or thinks lowly of women. He was definitely emotionally abused by her... . He has an uncle that lives alone... . Maybe there is sexual abuse that occurred to my husband as a child. He always says he lost his "innocence" young. He has an uncle who killed his wife and he has another uncle who killed himself... . Maybe it is just bi polar disorder. Maybe he is autistic with Asperger's Syndrome. I always thought he learned words like "c--t", "whore", etc. from a man his mother saw. But it turns out that she uses those words... . Maybe the birth of the baby triggered his childhood... . So, my husband may have borderline personality disorder or bipolar, be autistic, a child abuse victim, substance abuser, suffers low self-esteem, etc.

One thing that kills me though is the fact that he was relatively good for a year. And he's evil now ("evil" in the figure of speech). And he HATES me now. For NO reason. And there's a CHILD. And it is RELENTLESS.

I know f---ed up people. I know self-destructive people. People who hurt from years and years of hell they've endured. But, I've never seen someone hate someone suddenly and relentlessly pursue

Maybe, now that I am a mother, I remind him of his mother. He wants to punish his mother... . I don't know. I don't care. We focus on the "why" so much these days and not so much the "what". What is going on? Every action he does inflicts PAIN. Intentional PAIN. I know a lot of mental disorders, but I cannot, right now, think of ONE where the person intentionally hurts another.

I can guarantee you right now if I was going out and drinking and being a bad mother, he would hate me less. He spits at me. He curses at me. He boils and his face grimaces. There's a hate. There's an eerie, eerie, eerie hatred. The glare. The eyes. He paces. Yesterday, I was sitting in my car until the police came. My mother was with the baby. He was across the street... . Glaring... . with eyes flashing like the villains in cartoons, he's spitting at me, pacing, cursing, pacing... . Furious. Oh, he's dangerous, alright. Thanks for the prayers, woods posse.

[Gloria_Patch]

By the way, I am going today to talk to a priest that works in a bookstore I know. So, I'll see his take and report back

[woodsposse]

Pazuzu was the demon which possessed Linda Blair in The Exorcist (I know a thing or two about movies).

Yes, you are right  - he sounds like he does have some Personality Disorder and from what you are saying about his upbrining, I'd go out on a limb and say... . yup - that's the demon you are looking for.

Yes, you are right, you have become a projection of his inner hatred and a replacement for the mother who hurt him.  

Again, from my point of view, all of this is text book.

There are some fantastic workshops here, the links on the right for starters, which speak to all of this - and, at the end of the day... . it comes back to you.  Your happiness and wellness start and end with you.

I know the peace you want... . it's how you intend to go about it which is totally in your hands and in your control. There is peace, and it is within your grasp.  Again, not trying to take away from any theistic beliefs (cause God knows I'm totally theistic) - but this isn't a demon.  

It is a troubled man, with a  troubled past, and childhood trauma which never healed.

When I was a kid, I was told, I fell down some stair and fractured my leg.  by the time they figured out what happened, the only way to fix it was to rebreak it and reset it. My parents decided not to do that so my leg is a little wonky.

Same thing.  

Childhood trauma needs to be healed.  Which means it HAS to be revisited - pain gone through, reset - and healed.

That is what I wish for for your husband, for you, for all of us.  but this can only happen now if you want it.

[Gloria_Patch]

If I want it?

"If at first you don't succeed... . try and try again.  Unless you are dealing with someone with BPD... . then just stop."

Sound familiar?

[woodsposse]

If I want it?

"If at first you don't succeed... . try and try again.  Unless you are dealing with someone with BPD... . then just stop."

Sound familiar?

Exactly.  Truer words have never been spoken.

For me... . and this is just me... . my life is much happier because I choose not to have this type of behavior in my life.  My happiness starts and ends with me.

And yours does as well.

You can choose to do whatever you want.  You can choose to try and find better ways to deal with his disorder, there are tools and understandings available for you.  If that is the path you choose towards happiness... . then that starts and ends with  you.

For me... . I choose not to have this re-enter my life.

And for me... . personally... . I choose to look at the childhood traumas in my life and re-integrate them into my present day, so I don't have to be continually traumatized by things which were outside of my control.  I am a full grown mature adult.  I have complete control of my life.

I chose to fix me.  Not spend my time trying to fix someone else (mainly because, I can't fix anyone else.  They are their own persons.)

Hope that clears that up.

[Gloria_Patch]

But I tell you this: I'd be wary. I'd be wary of not believing that there isn't a force that is out to harm us. Some of us who have gotten involved in these relationships have low self esteem. But it seems that most of us are involved, because we have compassion, rather than low self-worth.

And what evil hates more than just plain human beings is compassionate human beings.

If there is an evil force that is targeting a person... . It is like playing a game of basketball where your opponent is shooting for goals, while you are on the couch watching television.

[Rapt Reader]

We are closing this discussion for violation of guideline 3.2.1.  We are not questioning anyones beliefs, just noting that the topic is outside of this message-board community's charter.

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