I finally told him we're through. His response: Anger then Refusal. What next?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

After knowing that this last recycle did not move me as it has for the past 21 years, I knew the time had come. Really it has only been excruciating in the past two years since I've decided to take care of myself and start setting boundaries. Prior to this I was in denial I really just could not understand what was happening and was not strong enough or aware enough to think my self worth was important enough. I was too busy trying to rescue our relationship and everything and everyone else but me. Until I began suffocating... .

So I planned and knotted myself up these past few months while gathering support from my T, 12 step, and  this website. Thank God. I agreed to meet with his T, with my H on 2 separate occasions. I concluded there was no hope. I knew I needed to take the plunge and made myself sick over it... . Fearful of the encounter, the reaction, the emotional and physical safety of my children and me. I reached out to my uBPDH's T and told him my intentions and asked him to be there to guide if necessary.   He agreed.  My H, his T and myself all present I said it. "We are through". At the end, it felt like another therapy session and I wondered if it came across clear. 5 days later I clarified... . One on one with my H that I am through and I preferred to mediate but if it caused too much conflict or a delay I would need to consult an attorney.  I was clear that we both wanted what was best for the kids and that meant me staying in the house with them.  Residential custody.

Needless to say the order of events went as follows:  he lashed out verbally and promised a war for custody and home rights because I was sick and unstable and peri menopausal, this was all my fault (Among other things). There was no opportunity to rationalize or resolve or discuss. I left unwilling to feed the fire, and stayed calm and clear. Next I received many phone calls "I love you, this is a mistake... . Etc". (I did not pick up, they were messages. Followed by texts "... . This is my attempt to keep many of God gifts  from being torn apart by this test of love and faith... . "... . "It is a rough spot we will look back on

One day... . "... . "How can I better express that your thoughts and feelings are important to me.?"  Etc... .  

I feel sorry for him. I truly believe he would like it to work but will never get it. In the past, when control was regained by him, the "kindness" would switch. Baited and hooked. Not this time. He is grasping. Desperately. I love him. However, I can no longer torture myself.

I'm not sure what my next move is and I don't want to linger.  I am trying to be patient and listen. Still I don't know if I need to say it yet again or just contact a mediator or just retain an attorney. I see my T in less than 2 days. I am trying not to view the past years as a mistake, but rather key in on the many positive and enjoyable moments that were necessary to bring me to where I am now. Still, I need to stay focused on my intention.  I don't completely trust that I will be strong enough to see it through even though I know its critical in restoring my sanity. Input on this site has been amazing to me. I would appreciate any insight. ?

[Landslide2014]

After knowing that this last recycle did not move me as it has for the past 21 years, I knew the time had come. Really it has only been excruciating in the past two years since I've decided to take care of myself and start setting boundaries. Prior to this I was in denial I really just could not understand what was happening and was not strong enough or aware enough to think my self worth was important enough. I was too busy trying to rescue our relationship and everything and everyone else but me. Until I began suffocating... .

So I planned and knotted myself up these past few months while gathering support from my T, 12 step, and  this website. Thank God. I agreed to meet with his T, with my H on 2 separate occasions. I concluded there was no hope. I knew I needed to take the plunge and made myself sick over it... . Fearful of the encounter, the reaction, the emotional and physical safety of my children and me. I reached out to my uBPDH's T and told him my intentions and asked him to be there to guide if necessary.   He agreed.  My H, his T and myself all present I said it. "We are through". At the end, it felt like another therapy session and I wondered if it came across clear. 5 days later I clarified... . One on one with my H that I am through and I preferred to mediate but if it caused too much conflict or a delay I would need to consult an attorney.  I was clear that we both wanted what was best for the kids and that meant me staying in the house with them.  Residential custody.

Needless to say the order of events went as follows:  he lashed out verbally and promised a war for custody and home rights because I was sick and unstable and peri menopausal, this was all my fault (Among other things). There was no opportunity to rationalize or resolve or discuss. I left unwilling to feed the fire, and stayed calm and clear. Next I received many phone calls "I love you, this is a mistake... . Etc". (I did not pick up, they were messages. Followed by texts "... . This is my attempt to keep many of God gifts  from being torn apart by this test of love and faith... . "... . "It is a rough spot we will look back on

One day... . "... . "How can I better express that your thoughts and feelings are important to me.?"  Etc... .  

I feel sorry for him. I truly believe he would like it to work but will never get it. In the past, when control was regained by him, the "kindness" would switch. Baited and hooked. Not this time. He is grasping. Desperately. I love him. However, I can no longer torture myself.

I'm not sure what my next move is and I don't want to linger.  I am trying to be patient and listen. Still I don't know if I need to say it yet again or just contact a mediator or just retain an attorney. I see my T in less than 2 days. I am trying not to view the past years as a mistake, but rather key in on the many positive and enjoyable moments that were necessary to bring me to where I am now. Still, I need to stay focused on my intention.  I don't completely trust that I will be strong enough to see it through even though I know its critical in restoring my sanity. Input on this site has been amazing to me. I would appreciate any insight. ?

[Turkish]

Landslide, this was a long time coming and congratulations for having the courage to stand up for yourself. I know you've been putting in a lot of work and dealing with a lot of emotions to get to this point. It is a long marriage, and a significant part of your life to look at and then start down a new path. Did I mention courage? You have loads of it! ,

You might want to get to the legal board if you haven't already. I'd suggest hiring an attorney if you can. Be proactive and take control rather than letting him do so. Have you had a chance to look at the Bill Eddy book, divorcing a BPD/Narcissist? It sounds like he is going to fight this and you want to be prepared. We are here for you for moral support. How are your kids handling this?

[Landslide2014]

Thank you Turkish, for that boost of confidence. The message to be proactive was comforting, as I'd rather be doing than idle. I just returned the book to the library.  I read it last month but avoided many parts as I just did not feel like projecting ( or maybe feeling too much).  Though I did want the knowledge. The kids are uncertain. We have not spoken our intentions  to them. Tough to do when we are on completely different pages. They obviously sense the tension. He is away since last night with my oldest daughter visiting a college. So there is peace in my home right now with my 2 youngest. However, I keep drifting to my thoughts "there is so much stuff of his in this house... . This has to get done, that has to change, Easter?  Graduation?" And I'm  wondering(ruminating/obsessing about) how it will all work out. I need to quiet my mind and trust in the moment.  Big challenge right now. I need to collect and breath and gather the fuel I need for the next step, without feeling overwhelmed. If I keep practicing, maybe I'll get it?.Attorney?... . I am resisting that, though it might just have to be. Ugh. Okay... . Here goes... .

[Stjarna]

Oh Landslide, I so know where you are coming from! 

Really it has only been excruciating in the past two years since I've decided to take care of myself and start setting boundaries. Prior to this I was in denial I really just could not understand what was happening and was not strong enough or aware enough to think my self worth was important enough. I was too busy trying to rescue our relationship and everything and everyone else but me. Until I began suffocating... .

This was me too... . coping and doing, keeping the lid on, keeping the environment calm, raising my kids and finding enjoyment wherever I could.  Counseling started putting real identity on his disorder and then as I set boundaries and started thinking/feeling for myself, he started to come unraveled, also telling me I was mentally unstable, that everything was my fault, that I was failing my "trial by fire" (a phrase he liked to toss around a lot whenever I expressed any iota of independence), that I was not giving him a chance to change and prove himself.  He had had had counseling too in the months prior to my leaving, and I saw no change for the better, and like you say, even change for the worse as far as his treatment towards me were concerned.

I also got many teary, pleading phone calls, e-mails, and texts in the first months of our separation, but these were always followed up usually the same day with hateful, vengeful, threatening e-mails and texts... . showing me how disordered he really was/is.  It has been almost a year, and things have toned down, but he still contacts me now and then with promises of impeccable behavior, that he will never hurt me again, or, conversely, that he is going to "go away" where no one will ever find him. 

I am so very sad for him.  It is a heartbreaking journey we travel, but I did not see any other way to go than to distance myself from him at the time, and now that we are this far along, I honestly thank the stars that I had the courage to stick to my original decision and keep from caving in and going back.  The promises are so tempting.  The keeping of the family home life, familiar surroundings, and the stability of the status quo are even more tempting.  Change of my entire life from age 17 to 57 seemed like it was so insurmountable, and I had no idea what kind of life awaited me without him.   I would like to tell you that, even through all of the tears and heart-wrenching pain, that I was pleasantly surprised.  In the beginning, the feeling of freedom, the complete safety of walking into my own tiny apartment at the end of my work day and having complete sovereignty over my evening, without the prospect of having someone else to soothe and revolve around was what kept me on my path.  A type of loneliness did set in at some point, and the longing for familiarity, but I kept on sticking it out... . just day by day, venting, talking, keeping busy, doing everything possible to see my way by myself through this sadness and heartbreak. 

You have a ton of courage, Landslide.  Remember that and fall back on it when times seem difficult.  You will get through this, and you will be okay. 

I agree with getting some counsel, even if it's just a free consultation for now.  My ex would say that we did not need lawyers, that we could settle everything, and then he would turn and threaten to take everything.  I could never trust what was the truth from him at any given time.  I did end up having to hire a lawyer, but in the end we did settle before things got too expensive with a trial.  I'm pretty sure that if I hadn't have gotten a lawyer, he would have used every trick in the book to stall things and hold what little I was asking for (my own retirement account from my job) over my head. 

Please take care of yourself through all of this.  You seem to be very insightful, and I know how hard this decision was to come to.  Actually coming to the decision to leave was the HARDEST thing that I have done in the past year.  I know everyone's situation is different, but just thought I'd share that perhaps you have been through the the worst, or at least a very difficult part of this whole process of saving yourself.

[Landslide2014]

Stjarna, your input is so GREATLY appreciated. I think that I am able to moved forward because of those who have shared their experiences. It seems more doable and less scary.  I noticed that I have been "unseasonably" irritable in the last few days, not only with H, but with my kids and everything. I recognize it, though I am having difficulty. My H was due home tonight and the closer it got the angrier I felt.  When I heard the car door close I completely braced myself.  I weave in and out of pity and anger it seems. I am starting to recognize that the anger is more prevalent when I judge my own behavior as unhealthy (inpatient, pointing out my H negative stuff instead of focusing on myself, trying unsuccessfully to fix a situation that I should otherwise be letting alone,  etc).   My H just came into my room... . Just to talk and catch up.  I honestly have no interest at all in this conversation unless it involves an action that needs to be taken regarding our children or our situation. I have so little tolerance for chatter and conversation that I am now always skeptical of anyway. I need to figure a way to calm myself and breathe because that's what's going to keep me focused and certain. 

Even right now I hear him interacting, in a "POSITIVE" manner with my daughter in the kitchen.  It seems purposefully loud and forced. He has also come around to the closet outside my door 4 times in the last 5 minutes, open... . Close loudly, open... . Close loudly. Now it's interaction with the dog and it sounds so fake. My door is closed and lights are off. I don't know if I'm being overly sensitive and dramatizing it or if it's his  round about method of getting to me because I closed my door and said good night. The point is, it doesn't really matter. Either way, the overthinking of everything is not sane!  I love that you now thank the stars, Stjarna. That is hope when I feel doubt. And that you expressed your desire for enjoyment. I can totally relate.

[Lucky Jim]

Hi Landslide, I admire your courage, and yours, too, Stjarna.  After three years of separation, I was finally officially divorced from my BPDxW last year.  It's been a rough ride, at times, though I've never thought about going back.  My Ex has continued her unkind and angry ways, which has made the b/u that much much easier.  I'm grateful to be out of an abusive, chaotic situation.  We have children, so NC is not an option, but LC works well for me.  I have no second thoughts, and doubt you will, either, Landslide, once you move on, as Stjarna has confirmed.  Stay strong on your new path, LuckyJim

[lauraj]

HI, Landslide, I just broke up with my BPDB two weeks ago but was still talking to him after all the ,"Please don't do this," etc. Last night though, I mentioned my kids ( they are not his) I'm widowed. He has never done anything with them and says they are brats and need to be obedience trained like dogs. They all three 13,10, and 7, have ADHD.  Well, I too for the past several days have been very edgy around him, knowing I shouldn't be around him, but scared to say anything. After bringing up the fact that nothing is changing with the kids and about two hours later, he left. This is after he said this argument was my fault and telling me the opposite of what he had said two weeks ago about getting therapy bla bla bla. After he left, I get on facebook and bam, there he is starting his crap about who I'm talking to and needing that validation that I'm not talking to another guy, then saying that I liked to start drama, on and on.  After a while I stopped writing back and just got offline. He is not done and I am just waiting for the next round of raging until he gets into the I'm sorry stage again. This is crazy! I was with him for 5 years. It took 2 to get the courage to finally leave! TWO years! For those of you who have left I commend you and reading these posts does help me to realize that I'm not crazy and I'm not alone. Please say a prayer for me today that I stay strong and let my giving heart be strong and just say no.

[Landslide2014]

Thank you for your input. I had an empowering and productive session with my T today. She basically reaffirmed that I am without question moving in the right direction.  She also pointed out that my H's therapist also supported me on this. I  needed that. I have also come to realize that I have abandonment issues. It is extremely difficult for me to think that I am abandoning anyone or letting them down. The biggest reality in all of it is that I abandoned myself.  I know, absolutely that I am not willing to abandon that child within me again.  Therein lies my choice and my knowing. I have also become aware that when someone threatens my worth (when I have paid attention to my own needs and then they become threatened) that it triggers my anger.  I am so grateful for the awareness and have been given the direction to look at it more objectively the next time it happens.

On the drama side of things... . My stbxuBPDH (ah. that's the 1st time I've written stbx and I feel good about it!) just came to ask me why the checking account was off.  I went in to explore and realized that he messed up the transfers.  Then I learned that he took out money and put it into his own private account in a different bank.  I don't even care about the money.  I just cannot wait to see the end of this. There goes my feeling sorry for him for the time being... . I just want to curse him right now. But I won't.  Even as I write I am finding that the blessing in his action is the fuel it will provide me to act more quickly toward our dissolve.

[lauraj]

that's exactly how I feel about myself and I have been told also that I have abandonment issues as well or I wouldn't have stayed for so long. The part about him giving you the fuel to keep on keeping on to get gone, happened to me yesterday with that 2 hour rant back and forth. I am always defending while he is always ripping me a new one. I have not heard from him at all today. Strange. I'm glad. When I think about the serenity of him being gone and not having to shut my life off to accomadate him, I feel free in some sorts. I also feel sorry for him too at times. stupid. I'm ready to not feel crazy anymore...

[MammaMia]

landslide

Your decision is made. Take control before your stbx finds a way to ruin your plan.

Life is good for him.  He does not really want things to change, so stop feeling sorry for him.  He is manipulating you.   

Take a stand then follow through. Are you waiting for his permission?  Don't.

[nevaeh]

Landslide... . 

Good for you!  You have taken the hardest step.  For me, at least, the act of telling him was the hardest thing for me and the thing that terrified me the most.

As you know, my H is still living with me (closes on his town home on April 11) and it has been awful.  He is committed to changing.  He tells me he loves me literally every 5 minutes or even more often than that.  The pressure has been unending and exhausting.  He tried to trick me in to making promises about things happening in the futures.  But I am staying strong. 

My T warned me to be ready for a whole new level of manipulation when we tell the kids.  She said that since the emotional warfare he has engaged in hasn't worked to sway me to change my mind that he will certainly try and use the kids as another tool.  I'm prepared to have private conversations with them about it and I am not ashamed or unsure of whether I am right in doing this.

You need to take care of the money, especially if he's already made a move.  I'm struggling a bit with what to do in my case because I found out about something H has done that is making me seriously question everything he has told me about wanting to be fair and not screw each other over in regards to money. 

Right now, him moving out is being termed a separation and I have explained to him that I need time apart to clear my thoughts and to figure out if I'm willing or able to attempt another go at our marriage.  It's highly doubtful right now and he sees the writing on the wall (and, I've told him as much... .  that it is highly unlikely).  My gut tells me I should just file the divorce papers now and tell him I'm done but I'm too scared to do that because I'm afraid he won't leave if I do that.  I need him to be out of the house because I'm afraid if I am the one that leaves, he will delay selling the house just to control me. 

Anyway, please take care of your financial situation.  The fact that he took the money tells me he's not necessarily thinking mediation.  I had to put down a $3500 retainer for my lawyer.  My parents helped me with that even though we have the money... .  I didn't have a way of taking that out of savings without him knowing it.  You need to make sure that you have the financial means to get an attorney in the event that things turn on you suddenly.  I am fortunate that I can afford the attorney.  I don't know what people do who simply can't afford it.  Hopefully this won't be an issue for you.

You should also be taking an inventory of everything in your house and make sure you know what your account balances are, etc. 

hugs to you Landslide... .  stay strong!

[Landslide2014]

Mammamia, right to the point!  I needed that.  You said it like it is.  He IS cleverly manipulating me.  No more. This wavering is draining me and I still need fuel for the rest of the process.  Lauraj, thanks for chiming in.  I was just thinking that I have really have made progress I no longer entertain the rants. I have a choice. I have always had a choice. I am only beginning to see the worth in acting upon that choice. I just stick to the facts and don't cross to his side of the court. Said. Done. Out.

nevaeh, I relate so well. I do wonder about telling him that I need time to sort through it to determine if it could possibly work in the future. I'm not sure about that though. My T was clear that I should offer zero hope.  I think if it weighed in on whether or not that would get him to leave I would have to go with what I thought would be the stronger conviction, especially if it were so close. I think the important thing is to remain loyal to our own truths and not to abandon them. [Remind me of that when I can't seem to see straight ]. 

I have the urge to move quickly. Because he has already disrupted our budget and finances I don't want a temporary "fix" or more truthfully a phony fix. I want legal to divide our finances and I just want to manage on my own. I don't really have anxiety about the money, I believe it will work out somehow.  Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[Turkish]

. I think the important thing is to remain loyal to our own truths and not to abandon them. [Remind me of that when I can't seem to see straight ]. 

Hi Landslide, what would you say are "your own truths?" Could you summarize them? Maybe print them out and put them in places to remind you (where he won't see)?

[Landslide2014]

Thank you for the opportunity to be introspective Turkish. So basically my own truth is honoring my quest for physical, emotional and spiritual health.

Specifically that means getting in touch with nature. Keeping up with a physical fitness routine, eating clean, performing acts of kindness, making a difference in someone's day, listening to and allowing for my painful and negative feelings and finding the opportunity in them.  To continue writing and laugh more often. To simplify and declutter because too much stuff only creates confusion for me.  To stop rescuing and controlling when all would be better served if I looked to my own recovery instead. To walk away from drama and find the good situations. To stop taking responsibility for the disapproval or unhappiness of others. To make sure I swim and do yoga several times a week as it brings me a level of peace that I am then able to share. To stay away from negative personalities at least for now and surround myself with positive people.  To go to 12 step meetings and humbly ask for help. To say hello and smile more at my children, my employees and the grocery store clerk. To hug more often and point out the goodness in people especially those that I love the most. And to be a better parent accepting the faults of my children and allowing for them and somehow communicating the fact that I will not abandon them no matter what place they are in their lives.

I don't think my list has an end.

I love writing and quotes speak to me. So maybe I will start there by putting quotes around my world. I would love to hear the thoughts on this question from others.  "What are your truths?" For me pondering the answer has created serenity in this moment.  Thank you for the gift.

[Lucky Jim]

Thanks, Landslide, for stating your truths so eloquently.  That is really a beautiful summary and quite thought provoking, almost like reading a meditation.  You have a literary talent, so as you say, "continue writing and laugh more often."  LuckyJim

[Landslide2014]

Thank you LuckyJim, that compliment warmed my heart.

So I clarified this with my uBPDH earlier today after he continues to behave as though we will continue like this forever:

"I have contacted a mediation center (who, looks to be amazingly fair) and I wanted to know if you think you will be able to go that route as opposed to using attorneys through this process?"  Well, this spawned a flow of insults and threats and an eventual hang up.  I proceeded to text.  "I have contacted ... . divorce-mediation... . I prefer... . For the welfare of or kids and... . Rational reasons... Cost... . if you cannot agree by Tuesday (6days) I am going to retain attorney... . Not a threat... . Just a matter of fact... .   Let's proceed as Maturely as possible". He responded:  "stop making threatening calls... . Talk like a mature adult... . My attorney (?) told me not to sign tax returns... I still love you and pray for you".  Followed by insults in front of the kids upon his arrival home.  Threat to milk me and "disclose" my lies and secret hidden cash, never would I get custody, this is all my fault, get a new therapist, among a truckload of other commentary. I did not bite. I sit here calm.  I just want to be to the other side of the mountain. Retaining an attorney is gnawing at me because I know for certain that this particular mediator will make it more comfortable for our children in respect to fairness and minimized bitterness.  (Not to mention the time and financial considerations).

I guess I will wIt until Tuesday and then proceed.?.

[rodrod]

I am in awe of your strength despite all that you have been through.  Can you loan me a cup of that.

[Turkish]

Landslide, if he got an attorney (and he may be lying), get one for yourself if you can. Give away no information like he has. Protect yourself and your children. You owe him nothing. Owe yourself and stay strong! It might be time to get help from members on the legal board to help navigate this. Stay safe!

[Landslide2014]

Rodrod, it is very likely that I would loan you a cup of anything. It is my sense, however, that you have an overflowing abundance of your own strength just waiting to make its appearance. Be patient and trust.

Turkish, thanks for weighing in.  I did find an attorney; just a matter of committing (and paying). I would imagine that the attorney that my H is speaking of is an associate at work who is not in the legal field?  Regardless, I am not going to pour my energy into trying to find out.  I will explore the legal board and further my knowledge, that in which I have control. Thank you!

[Stjarna]

Oh, Landslide, I bet if I looked through my text messages of last May or so, I would find a very similar conversation between my ex and myself.  I offer mediation, to leave him with the house and everything and that I only wanted my 403b account from my job.  Him asking why I am threatening him (?).  Then him throwing out "My lawyer said... . "  Then the threats about taking everything including my personal guitar, my 20-year-old autistic daughter's horse, unending threats and lies and such. 

I did end up having to spend some money on a lawyer with his instability and the fact that I could not trust a darn thing he said, ever.  Then he texts me when we were all done in October, stating, "You sure wasted a lot of money on a lawyer.  I would have agreed to everything that you wanted."  Yeah, right.   

Hang in there!  All of this stress will pass.  It is a necessary means to a necessary end.  Just get through it.  You are a strong gal!

[MammaMia]

Landslide

Your actions tell your stbx that you are serious, and the line has been crossed for the last time.

When you get to an emotional place where you actually stop caring what he thinks and/or feels, you can move forward without guilt. You have tried, you have sacrificed, you have done all you can, and now "there is nothing left to save in the relationship".  You do not need to justify his emotions, only your own and what is best for your children. 

I have been where you are.  Freedom is a wonderful thing.  Stay strong. 

[Landslide2014]

Thank you stjarna and Mammamia.  The words of you, who have walked before me are a priceless gift right now. A connection to my sanity.  The mediator was going to contact him today and try and set up a meeting. I won't hold my breath. My H came home tonight practically singing... . "I have 4 months... . Did you know that?  Before I have to do anything I legally have 4 months". I responded in a not so healthy manner and said did you tell them everything like there is a domestic violence report against you? (I don't like myself so much when I stoop.  I will have to chalk it up to an awareness op) anyway, he freaked.  I do want my kids to have to experience this circus.  I guess I will control what I can. Ugh. Tomorrow is another day.

[Turkish]

Thank you stjarna and Mammamia.  The words of you, who have walked before me are a priceless gift right now. A connection to my sanity.  The mediator was going to contact him today and try and set up a meeting. I won't hold my breath. My H came home tonight practically singing... . "I have 4 months... . Did you know that?  Before I have to do anything I legally have 4 months". I responded in a not so healthy manner and said did you tell them everything like there is a domestic violence report against you? (I don't like myself so much when I stoop.  I will have to chalk it up to an awareness op) anyway, he freaked.  I do want my kids to have to experience this circus.  I guess I will control what I can. Ugh. Tomorrow is another day.

Regardless of the tools here, as my T said, "there is nothing wrong with speaking the to the truth." Good for you and stay safe.