She needs to collect some belongings from me this week

[newc1992]

So, I've just received a message from my BPDexgf on Viber (not sure why she didn't just text me) saying that she needs to collect some belongings from me this week.

How should I respond to this? And how should I be when I meet her. I still have feelings for her but I know that she is going to be very cold towards me when I see her. To even be civil with one another would be nice, but I can't even see that happening... .

To clarify, we broke up over 2 months ago and have been NC since then. I agreed to meet her in February to exchange belongings but this never materialised. I have been painted black and blocked on Facebook and Twitter. I really am not looking forward to seeing her... .   :'(

Thanks in advance for any advice... .

[Want2know]

It may be hard, but try to think of it as a business transaction.

Set up a day/time that she can come get her things, and if you have a friend who can be there with you, that might be helpful.

Does she have a lot of stuff?  Can you get it together for her and set it somewhere where she can easily access it and remove it?

[maxsterling]

A couple of suggestions - Is it possible to mail this stuff?  May cost a bit, but that's one thing I did in the past with an ex I preferred not to see.  Second suggestion - put everything of hers in one place near the front of your house.  Ask her specifically when she will come by, and then have a friend or family member at your house to let her in while you go off and go shopping or do something on your own. 

[In_n_Out]

I really am not looking forward to seeing her... .

You're really not?  "Your things will be in boxes on my back porch under a blanket.  I will be away at such and such time. Please make arrangements to retrieve them then. If that time does not work for you, please let me know what will and I will make arrangements to be away.  If I do not hear back from you by (date), I will be donating your things to the local charity."  Omit the donating stuff if she is still holding some of your belongings hostage and you want them back... .

I really am looking forward to seeing her... .

(after the exchange) "You look happy to of gotten these things back.  It must feel good to have your own belongings back and I'm glad that we could arrange for you to retrieve them.  Thank you for agreeing to meet with me so that I could retrieve my belongings as well."  Then take it from there... .

[newc1992]

Thanks for the replies! I really needed this advice! I replied to her saying that I am free over the weekend to which she said "that's fine. Let me know." So, more of the same coldness as before I guess. At least this time she has specified that I tell her a date/time... . Last time she asked for her stuff back (start of February) it never materialised, despite her apparently "needing" something that week... . She clearly didn't "need" it that much... .

I was struggling before as this is the first contact she has made since then. I'm not sure how I will approach the actual encounter. I have been given many options, but I will most probably meet her and ask that we remain civil from now on. Whether I will still be painted black remains to be seen (I would imagine I will), but I probably won't see anything if her after that anyway. I do still have feelings for her, but I know that we will not work out and that I have to let go, no matter how hard that is. So I will try to look as though I have moved on and am living a better, happier life without her.

[In_n_Out]

So, more of the same coldness as before... .

So just a word of caution here; your "defenses" ('shields' if you're a Trekky) are already raised.  Hers are too if you want to gauge that by her short response.  The shields will automatically raise when you two meet as if a Klingon ship had just uncloaked in front of you.  You both will be on "red alert" with the helmsmen ready to fire a photon torpedo at the first sign of aggression from either party.  (sorry for the cheesy analogy, I don't know why I'm using it actually ).

BPD's read facial expressions and body language as well as "feel" the words that you say to them.  If you are wanting this to be a cordial, non-confrontational meeting, then wear a smile... . even when she fires a torpedo across your bow because she will. Also, take a measurement of her emotional level *constantly* because it can/will change back and forth within minutes.  If she's upbeat, then keep her on that emotion and talk briefly about something happy that you shared... . the time that you two played with Tribbles or something (google it if you don't know).  If Spock takes a reading and her mood has turned to sorrow or anger, then send over a team to begin the *validation* procedures; read her mood, understand her mood, ask her about why she's feeling such mood, assure her that everyone has that mood and then go back and validate some more until she snaps out of it. 

If Khan his hit your ship too hard with lasers and torpedo's and you have to hit the self-destruct button, *don't* fire off any last minute torpedo's.  Collect your stuff and tell her that you need go now, that *your* emotional level is getting uncomfortable for yourself and you need to go think about things, *but that you will be in contact with her soon* (caveat... . if you want to hear from her again).

I hope that makes sense.  If you've never watched Star Trek you may be scratching your head; or maybe not.  Read about "validation" steps here on this site and others and if you haven't watched it, this video is a great one that talks about BPD's and validation:

Understanding Validation in Families - Alan E. Fruzzetti, PhD:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDSIYTQX_dk

[newc1992]

Yes it is fairly obvious to me that she has her defences up right now. I knew that would be the case, since she once told me that she always has her defences up when meeting people, so I can imagine that the meeting will be especially awkward. Last time we met, I acted upbeat about the occasion, and arrived wearing a smile, although I was immediately attacked by her. So I'm expecting more of the same this time around. When will the hatred/painting black stop. We're both at university so in 3 months we will no longer see one another, so I don't understand her reasoning for continuing the drama and hate towards me.

Anyway, I was going to mention to her that I would like to remain friendly towards one another, but I'm not sure how she will take this. Many people I have spoken to have said to tread very carefully when I see her, as any indication that I still have feelings for her will allow her to realise that she still has control. Trouble is, I don't want to end on bad terms with her, so I don't want to leave the meeting without mentioning to her that I am still here for her to talk to and that I will keep in touch. Would it be best to avoid saying these things considering that I have been warned that this might just be another one of her little games to gauge whether I still love her?

[In_n_Out]

It depends on what you want out of the "relationship":

If you just want your stuff and for her to go away, then be polite, keep the small talk quick and simple but polite and then let her know your boundaries that you believe the best way for both of you to move forward in a positive way is to have no contact with one another; for at least an established amount of time (months, a year, forever, whatever).

If you're still in love with this woman but don't want a romantic relationship but you wouldn't mind being anacquaintance/sudo-friend, the do the above but don't reveal any boundary that you may have as far as contact goes.  Let that door remain open and see if she will walk up and ring the doorbell in the future some time.

If you're hoping to rekindle something, then you've got to do all the validation while taking her emotional temperature readings and applying what you need to depending on what those readings are.  :)o the small talk and see how it goes but I would refrain from bringing up any future plans.  Just live the moment.  

If you feel that if she knows or figures out that you still "love" her or have feelings for her and that she will somehow use that against you, then I would do option #1 and just get your stuff and politely go your own ways.  Whether or not she would do that doesn't matter; if you *believe* that she is that type of person (BPD withstanding), then it sounds like there's some trust issues going on and a relationship without the trust isn't going to work very well for you.

Is it a BPD thing that they will use your love as a tool to get at you or to hurt you or something like that?  I don't think so. They just want to be understood and loved, like we all do.  Their issue is that if they feel that they aren't getting that understanding or that love, you are going to leave them so they might as well leave first before they get hurt (yet again).

[newc1992]

I appreciate the advice. Option 1 is what must people have advised me to do. However, I don't want to cut ties with this person. It is likely she will do this for me anyhow, since she NC'ed me after the breakup. The fact that she has items at my house is the only thing that is leaving the door open slightly. Once we have had our meeting, there are no longer any ties between the two of us. The thought of going separate ways hurts so much as I feel that we owe it to our relationship to remain civil (I just can't see it happening right now... . ).

My parents told me to use option 2 once I had explained this to them. My dad feels that if I want to have the potential for some contact there in the future then I should just remain cordial when I see her and then not bring up boundaries (as you said).

Option 3 is the route that I want to take, but is also the route which will probably fail. I really want to rekindle something with this girl, and option 3 seems like the best way of doing this.

I think that ultimately I will do as you suggested, and read the situation. I will validate her and try my best to avoid any confrontation or arguments by doing so. As far as I'm aware she still hates me, she is still giving the silent treatment and blames me for many of the wrongdoings, so being validating will be difficult. However, if I take the moral high ground on this, then at least I give her no reason to be angry towards me (even though she most likely will anyway). Then, when I leave I can say that I will stay in contact and wish her all the best in the meantime.

[cosmonaut]

I feel your pain, newc.  It's a special type of hell being left by a pwBPD.  It would bring anyone to their knees - anyone with a heart at least.  I think it's completely normal to be confused and emotional right now.

You've gotten some good advice in this thread.  I don't have anything to add, except to sympathize.  I can imagine seeing your ex again will be very emotional.  It may also be the last time you ever see her.  I would try to part on friendly terms with her.  Try to avoid showing too much emotion - pwBPD are emotional sponges and very sensitive to the emotions of others.  You can try to leave the door open to something in the future, but it does sound like that is a remote possibility.  In_n_Out's advice to validate, validate, validate is probably the best chance that you have of getting back in her good graces if that's what you really want.  Don't argue with her at all.  No matter what she accuses you of, validate the emotion.  That's what she is truly seeking even if she doesn't know it herself.  Still, recognize that it's a long shot to repair things with her.

Good luck.  Let us know how things go.  I can only imagine what I would be feeling to be seeing my ex again.

[newc1992]

Ok, so I ended up meeting the ex yesterday. It went badly and I'm feeling really upset about it now... . Sorry in advance for the length... .

She ended up coming to my front door, so I took her stuff down and have it to her. She seemed to be herself, and asked how I was. After telling her I was fine I returned the question and she told me that she has had a bad week as her auntie has just died. I knew a lot about this subject from our time together, so I figured that she just wanted someone to talk to about it. I invited her inside for a drink and she refused, saying she "wouldn't be very good company". So I told her that if she ever needed someone to talk to or wanted to go for a drink sometime she knows where I am. This is where it went downhill drastically.

I wasn't going to bring up the relationship. It has been nearly 3 months since we split up and mistakes have been made on both sides. It would've been best to not talk about what happened. She told me that she knows about me going through her phone messages and that she can't forgive me for that. I validated her to an extent (following the advice of people on this forum) but told her that I only did it because I needed closure. She explained to me that she can't provide closure and that I have to find it myself, etc, etc.

She asked why I had tried to make her out to be the bad guy and make myself look like I'm in the right. She said that I was twisting the truth to make her look like she was in the wrong. That she had never done anything to hurt me and I had gone out of the way to hurt myself by looking through her messages. I know that was wrong of me to do and that it was an invasion of her privacy, but I have only ever told people the truth. She's blaming me for her problems and actually twisting what has happened herself.

I tried telling her that her version of events is wrong. That she had told me she wanted a break at her house, and that she had blanked me since (the truth). But she truly believes in her head that she had only asked for space and that I overreacted which made her want to break up with me. I know what happened, and it's so frustrating that she has convinced herself that something completely different had happened.

She said we would've still been together if had acted more mature when I visited her. She explained that she saw a side to me that she didn't like and that made her end everything we had. We had a good relationship. I made her happy. She threw everything away without even talking me through her issues with me. They were minor things that I could have worked on.

I'm starting to wonder at times if its me who is crazy. I wanted that relationship to work more than anything in the world. And yesterday she tells me that me wrongdoings were what caused it to end. I'm distraught.

She claims that she has been clinically depressed for the past 2 years and that she has only just found out. She couldn't believe that I didn't notice that she was depressed when she knew it herself. I did notice. I asked her what was wrong and tried to talk to her on several occasions, to no avail.

It seems that she has decided that her version of events is as it is. That has made her paint me even more black than I already am, since I am fully to blame for everything. She refuses to believe that she has a problem (other than depression), but everyone can see that it goes far deeper than that.

What's more, she looked stunning last night. She had obviously made an effort before coming to see me - hair straightened, make up, dressed to impress, high heels. The sort of effort she only makes for those she loves.

I still love her. Deep down I know that. I wish that I could make everything ok again. I wish she could forget my wrongdoings and try to put things right. For a brief moment, I thought that was going to happen. I knew that she wanted to see me when she asked for her things and initially it looked as though I might just be painted white again. But in an instant, she pushed me away. She hasn't really got many people left to talk to. I feel sorry for her having to deal with her problems alone. I want to help her. She needs someone to talk to. I'll listen.

She ended up storming away in a tantrum, probably half expecting me to go after her. But I didn't. I can't help but think that she's giving me the "I hate you don't leave me" thing. She said she hates me, but at the same time she wants me there. She wanted to talk to someone about everything. Poor girl was distraught. It doesn't matter how I act, she still thinks I care. She still thinks that I haven't moved on. I think that as long as she thinks that, she will act like this.

There are a few things going through my head: Why has she come to see me to pull me in and then push me away again? Why can't she just accept what has happened and paint me white again? She was so dressed up. We got along for a while. Why is she acting like this? There are no ties left between us now. Will I see her again? I want to text her to ask if we can meet up and talk, but I don't know if that's a good idea or not.

All of this happened on the 30th of March. Exactly (almost to the hour) 6 months after we first began dating officially. I'm so upset. I can't let her go. I can't let it end like this. I need to see her and be civil. Apologise for what has happened. Tell her that I'm there for her if she needs me. Wish her all the best.

Thanks for reading, and sorry again for the essay. Any advice would be appreciated as I really am struggling right now... .

[Aussie0zborn]

She's blaming me for her problems and actually twisting what has happened herself.

This is to be expected from people with BPD. You might have to accept that she won't give you closure, won't validate your feelings in any way and that you will get nothing from her to help you through this.  The only thing you will get from her is the opportunity to present yourself for further abuse.

Want2know suggested you leave her things somewhere where she could retrieve them. This would have been an ideal solution... . she gets her things and you avoid the current crisis you're in. Any further contact with her will result in you feeling the way you do now.  I don't believe you can win unless you go No Contact and chalk this up to experience.

Six months is not a long time.  You could be feeling this again in six years if you continue.  She was not your best friend and you were never the real love of her life.  I think you have dodged a bullet and in your shoes, I would be buying a lottery ticket.

Don't be hard on yourself and think about whether you want a lifetime of this or wish to waste any more than the six months already lost.

[newc1992]

I did think about taking her stuff round and leaving it on her doorstep, but at the same time I knew that these items didn't mean a lot to her and that she just wanted to see me and talk. I thought that after 3 months she might have been able to be civil with me. The fact that we were civil initially suggested that I was right to think this, but in the end she only ended up bringing up the relationship yet again.

It seems that I can't win. I was NC for two months prior to yesterday, and I don't know why she decided to contact me after so long, just to push me away again. I guess she just wants to see that I still care.

Even though it will make things worse, I am tempted to contact her in a few days, just to explain to her that I am here to talk to her if she wants someone to talk to. I think that she is very alone right now and feels that she cannot speak to anyone about it. Yesterday she was saying that she still hated me, but at the same time she seemed as though she didn't want me to abandon her (the classic "I hate you, don't leave me). Friends agree with me on this. There are no longer any ties between us so I don't think she will ever contact me again, so I simply want to have a civilised conversation so that I can pick myself up and get on with my life. But that is probably too much to ask from her, especially when I am painted black. It doesn't look like I'll ever be white again that's for sure.

[Aussie0zborn]

It sounds like you're looking for closure when you say, "... . I simply want to have a civilised conversation so that I can pick myself up and get on with my life".

Further contact will only drag you down further and it will take much more work to pick yourself up, increasing the healing time.

You have a clean break from her now. What is it that makes you feel you need to do this?

[Pecator]

She explained to me that she can't provide closure and that I have to find it myself, etc, etc.

Ya' know, sometimes I think that I am crazy. Then I come here and realize that the multitude here that express my EXACT experience can't all be crazy. The fact that we searched and found this place means that we do care and want to find solutions. We are not afraid to confront difficult truths. It makes me so much less crazy !

Still, I would like to delve into my sense of crazy and suggest a conspiracy theory. Is there a book out there that all our partners read and we are completely unaware of?

WOW, newc. everything you wrote has been textbook in my r/s. When I read the above quote, I could hear my uBPDex's voice. "I can't provide you with closure."

I saw her for the first time in weeks. If she had her druthers, we would never see each other. But her kids grew close to me and I wanted to honor that by visiting with them (her previous exes never speak to her and those boys have taken the brunt). My ex is very high functioning so we had that civil conversation we both seek. Trust me, that even being civil does not elevate the "crazy-making" that comes with the BPD symptoms we are both dealing with.

She's blaming me for her problems and actually twisting what has happened herself.

I tried telling her that her version of events is wrong.

But she truly believes in her head that she had only asked for space and that I overreacted which made her want to break up with me. I know what happened, and it's so frustrating that she has convinced herself that something completely different had happened.

If you really want to continue to interact with her, I suggest to research the S.E.T. technique. Don't just read it. Practice it. If you really want to continue in contact with her, it describes what it will take. You will have to examine all your motivations, desires and hopes and take them out of the conversation and place the focus on her. It is a lot to commit to, but it gives you a glimpse of the energy it take to be in a r/s with a pwBPD.

I spent hours trying to scribe an email according to these principals. It was hard. I had to take out so many sentences where clearly I was trying to convince her of a more objective truth that didn't mach her narrative of events. I had to eliminate subtle rhetoric I infused hoping she would believe that what we had was real. I had to focus on her fears and give her a space to feel comfortable.

As I reread the email, I did a pretty good job.

It was answered by an email that contained a laundry list of reasons why the ending of our r/s was all my fault. Reasons which begged me to insert objective facts to refute her accounts, but thanks to this place, I knew that was not the answer. Even if my true intention was simply for closure, suck up the facts and simply address her on her fears. That takes a lot of emotional energy.

During our civil conversation the next day, she mentioned, "I'm guessing you read the email I sent. I am sorry it was so harsh. But it is the truth. You know me, I can't hold back the truth." It took every ounce of energy to not go for that hook. I finally got that when she blamed me for making the sky being green, even though I had a picture of it truly being blue, the validity of fact meant nothing when her fears are driving her.

Not that I am perfect in this. We will always have our moments of weakness. Mine came when she continued on the topic and said, "I'm not saying I am perfect." I couldn't resist. I pulled up the email on my phone and handed it to her and said, "Really... . really... . cause there is nothing in this email that conveys that." She did pause for a moment. But it was only that moment. We abandoned the issue and continued on with our "civil" conversation." Days later, that moment has had no impact.

When I consider the energy it took to create that moment, and I consider the energy it took to be in that moment, and the energy it has taken to recover from the evaporation of that moment, I begin to see what it takes to be in a relationship with a pwBPD (even with only traits). The question becomes, ":)o I have that energy."

Not sure what my answer is yet. newc, do not kid yourself. To continue in this path, even if it is just for "civil" closure, takes great energy. Energy that could be better spent on healing and preparing for the real relationship that doesn't need to tap every ounce of your strength.

[DiamondSW]

GAMES

Use your energy to make new friends and maybe meet a new girl. 

It's all games.  She didn't really want any 'stuff'... .   she was just alone after a bad week and no-one was there for her... .   classic BPD

My BPD always claimed to have 'loads' of friends... . 300+ on facebook.  But in reality?  Nah, she had no-one really.  Especially once they became real friends (ie; close to her) which is when they'd see beyond the expensive clothes and sweet words. 

Walk away. 

[newc1992]

The advice I have received on here has been tremendous. I have received similar advice from friends and family with regards to what to do about the situation.

With this in mind, I have decided that I should not try to talk to her. Instead, I have found one or two more of her belongings in my room earlier whilst I was tidying it. I am going to put them inside a shoe box and leave it outside her front door. Whether she wants them or not is up to her. But I certainly don't want or need them. I'll send her a text saying that her things are outside her door. Perhaps then she will realise that I'm not playing her games anymore. We will see.

Because I'm not cold enough to ignore her feelings, I will leave a small note inside the box that validates her feelings towards me. I will tell her that I regret my wrongdoings in the relationship but that I don't want to bring up the relationship anymore. I have decided to close that chapter of my life and move on. I will let her know that I understand the emotional stress she is currently going through and that I will talk to her if she needs to. But I refuse to speak about the relationship. She knows where I am if she needs me.

I know that this isn't completely NC but I feel it is the right thing to do. I made a decision yesterday after receiving all my advice that I am no longer going to play these games anymore. I will be there as a friend whilst she is feeling upset but I will not rise to her if she brings up the relationship. I think that by leaving her stuff outside her door and remaining polite, she will get the impression that I am fed up of her. I have seen that she is sick and that I have to finally move on, for my own sake. But, at the same time, at least she knows that she is not completely alone in the world.