is friendship ever possible?

[chillamom]

Has anyone ever been able to forge a friendship with their BPDex? 

It's been 3 wks since our b/u, and I have been very LC….tried to be completely NC but it's harder than I thought to turn away from the incessant phone calls, texts, and emais.

I do NOT think it would be a good idea to try to be his friend now, but he is begging for it, although I'm 100% convinced it's a recycle attempt.

On the plus side - he is seeing a T (actually 2).  On the minus side, some of his contact with me has been vaguely threatening and VERY accusatory (no surprise).  he has accused me of having affairs with a colleague and with my ex-husband (PLEASE give me credit for some taste, !)  He also sent emails to my colleague and my ex-husband accusing THEM of the same thing, and also asking them to help him win me back for his sake.  None of the accusations are true, but even if he claims he knows better and doesn't REALLY believe it, I know he still thinks I was running around on him.  My main concern is that he could potentially become physically abusive because he has these delusions about my behavior, and I know if you are part of someone's delusional "system" it puts you at risk. 

On the other hand, I feel damn sorry for him because he is incredibly sad and stressed and has NO ONE to talk to except the T's….

with your collective wisdom, would it be smart to try to be his friend and meet up in person to talk at this point, or is it best to wait a good long while until he is completely rational (if that ever happens).  I have NO intention of being recycled, even though I have to confess that like many of us on this board, the love is still there.  What do you think?  And thank you.  I don't post often, but I read every day and learn more and more about what I have been and am dealing with, so it helps to keep my own head on (somewhat) straight.

[Turkish]

Hi chillamom,

I know it's hard to seperate your feelings now, but what is your definition of a friend? Based upon his past and current behaviors, does he fit into that?

My T gave me something, "a friend is someone with whom you entrust the building of you character." And also, "a friend is someone to whom you present your heart and ask, 'what do you think?'"

What are your definitions?

[seeking balance]

Hi Chillamom,

Has anyone ever been able to forge a friendship with their BPDex? 

A version of a friendship is possible with time, really understanding BPD and not expecting a BPD ex to be something other than what it is.  It is rare (because of our unrealistic expectations), but it is possible.

It's been 3 wks since our b/u, and I have been very LC….tried to be completely NC but it's harder than I thought to turn away from the incessant phone calls, texts, and emais.

3 weeks is not that long and learning to set a real boundary is very important.

Check out the Lessons to get a clearer picture on your role and why boundaries are crucial for you both.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=136462.0

I do NOT think it would be a good idea to try to be his friend now, but he is begging for it, although I'm 100% convinced it's a recycle attempt.

Recycling is not necessarily the goal for a pwBPD - it is about the attachment.  This is an attachment disorder.

Why do you think it is NOT a good idea to be his friend right now?

On the plus side - he is seeing a T (actually 2). 

This is good, but real change for a pwBPD is more than simply seeing a T - it has to be the right kind of T and behavior therapy.  Be realistic in what to expect from this.

On the minus side, some of his contact with me has been vaguely threatening and VERY accusatory (no surprise).  he has accused me of having affairs with a colleague and with my ex-husband (PLEASE give me credit for some taste, !)  He also sent emails to my colleague and my ex-husband accusing THEM of the same thing, and also asking them to help him win me back for his sake.  None of the accusations are true, but even if he claims he knows better and doesn't REALLY believe it, I know he still thinks I was running around on him.  My main concern is that he could potentially become physically abusive because he has these delusions about my behavior, and I know if you are part of someone's delusional "system" it puts you at risk. 

This is him coming unhinged and for him to understand this is not acceptable means boundaries from you - clear boundaries.

On the other hand, I feel damn sorry for him because he is incredibly sad and stressed and has NO ONE to talk to except the T's….

Well, I will defer to Article 9 - https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a109.htm#9

False Belief number 9




9) Belief that you need to stay to help them.

You might want to stay to help your partner. You might want to disclose to them that they have borderline personality disorder and help them get into therapy. Maybe you want to help in other ways while still maintaining a “friendship”.

The fact is, we are no longer in a position to be the caretaker and support person for our “BPD” partner – no matter how well intentioned.

Understand that we have become the trigger for our partner’s bad feelings and bad behavior. Sure, we do not deliberately cause these feelings, but your presence is now triggering them. This is a complex defense mechanism that is often seen with borderline personality disorder when a relationship sours. It’s roots emanate from the deep core wounds associated with the disorder. We can’t begin to answer to this.

We also need to question your own motives and your expectations for wanting to help. Is this kindness or a type “well intentioned” manipulation on your part - an attempt to change them to better serve the relationship as opposed to addressing the lifelong wounds from which they suffer?

More importantly, what does this suggest about our own survival instincts – we’re injured, in ways we may not even fully grasp, and it’s important to attend to our own wounds before we are attempt to help anyone else.

You are damaged. Right now, your primary responsibility really needs to be to yourself – your own emotional survival.

If your partner tries to lean on you, it’s a greater kindness that you step away. Difficult, no doubt, but more responsible.

with your collective wisdom, would it be smart to try to be his friend and meet up in person to talk at this point, or is it best to wait a good long while until he is completely rational (if that ever happens). 

What is the purpose for meeting up?  Honestly, what do you hope to achieve?

I have NO intention of being recycled, even though I have to confess that like many of us on this board, the love is still there.  What do you think?  And thank you.  I don't post often, but I read every day and learn more and more about what I have been and am dealing with, so it helps to keep my own head on (somewhat) straight.

Only you know what you need.  Limited Contact is not a bad thing if you are clear about your boundaries and motivations - only you know what you can handle. 

Do you happen to be in T yourself?

Peace,

SB

[pinkparchment]

I was genuinely friends with my BPD ex before we dated. I was still attracted to her while we were friends though. Once we crossed the relationship boundary we knew there was really no going back to being friends for us. The chemistry we have is too strong, wouldn't be fair to any future partners. And honestly watching her have relationships, whether they worked or not, would be too painful for me. I think you can only be friends with an ex you either didn't love or weren't attracted to physically. Unfortunately neither of those things is true for me.

[State85]

I was genuinely friends with my BPD ex before we dated. I was still attracted to her while we were friends though. Once we crossed the relationship boundary we knew there was really no going back to being friends for us. The chemistry we have is too strong, wouldn't be fair to any future partners. And honestly watching her have relationships, whether they worked or not, would be too painful for me. I think you can only be friends with an ex you either didn't love or weren't attracted to physically. Unfortunately neither of those things is true for me.

Totally agree with this... . although mine still wants to be friends.

[Kallor74]

If friendship means being placed on a roster list of exes who when the mood strikes her or her current r/s explodes under the strain of craziness must answer her beck and call so she can feel better about herself... . then yes

[ScotisGone74]

IMHO sure friendship is possible, if you want a 'friend' you could never trust, could never depend on, lied, and who made up stories about you.     With 'friends' like that who needs enemies?    I would rather spend my effort and time on the people who wanted to be in my life that were real friends. 

[blissful_camper]

   With 'friends' like that who needs enemies?   

Exactly.  I couldn't do it, no way.  There was too much deception, drama, exploitation, emotional instability, and lying at his end.  He wasn't there for me when I really needed him.  But heads would roll down main street if I wasn't available to him 24/7.  I wouldn't trust him enough to have a friendship.  I have no desire to place my hand over that flame again.  There are millions of people out there, all potential friends, why not take it slow, get to know people, and form friendships with those who can actually have healthy friendships? 

[Lucky Jim]

Hi chillamom, It's OK that you still feel love for your Ex, but at this juncture your primary goal is to detach, in my view.  You write,

I do NOT think it would be a good idea to try to be his friend now

, so on some level I think you already know the answer to your question.  I am uncertain why you are trying to convince yourself otherwise, because I think you already stated your gut feeling, which is the one to go with.  LuckyJim

[chillamom]

thank you to everyone who so thoughtfully responded….everyone is pretty much spot on, and LuckyJim you're right….I am trying to convince myself otherwise because I think he NEEDS me, which means I have to spend a LOT of time really absorbing Lesson #9.  And I know damn well it would be falling right into the volcano again, so I will spend a few hours feeling hitty about things and then face the issue with a better resolve and a clearer head.  I'm sticking with the LC, and not trying to be "friends" at this point.  I feel like I MAY finally be re-establishing a bit of sanity in my life….slowly….and he will sweep back in and it will be gone…... no thanks.

[DiamondSW]

Maybe friendship is possible A LONG time after the breakup and if both parties are well and happy in their lives.

At the moment I don't want my ex in my life.  The only time I ever asked for or needed my hellp, she wasn't there, indeed I think in hindsight she belittled my feelings and heavily contributed to making my life terrible... .   it wasn't personal, it was her illness doing the talking.

But that means I CAN'T TRUST her illness not to do the talking again and put e back in that dark place (and dangerous place).

She's not my friend, she never was.  She was my girlfriend and now she's nothing. 

It was her actions and therefore her choice.  She's 30.  The BPD symptoms and her choice to address/ignore them were there LONG BEFORE I MET HER. 

I have replaced my hatred of her for pity.  The love I once felt is fading. 

[Sunny Side]

Has anyone ever been able to forge a friendship with their BPDex? 

At this point (nearly 2wks NC), chillamom, for me it doesn't seem possible.  Friendship with what exactly?  It would be like trying to grab the hem of a wraith.

It will be interesting as I inch back towards a strong, baseline health (let's say 6 mos or a year from now) whether I feel the same.

[thisyoungdad]

I do not think it is possible for me at least. She used to say to me a lot in the last few months that "she would never have a friend like me" or that "her friends would never treat her like that" or whatever she said like that. I started to reply with "you don't treat them the way you do me" because after being married 10 months when she left me, her making lunch plans with me and then failing to show up and not answering her phone was not acceptable but making plenty of time for her friends was not a problem. Then getting mad at me bc I was upset, or hurt. So many things she would do that were abusive and then if I stood up to her she would turn it on me. Now she has a couple people with significant relationships to my daughter convinced I am an unreasonable, controlling person who needs to be shielded from my own daughter. I can not be friends with someone who helps perpetuate that, and certainly has never defended my position as my daughters father to these crazy women. I wouldn't ever want to be friends with someone who treated me so poorly especially without an amends, apology or attempt to change. It is sad though, I wish we could be.

[bossanover]

even after my ex broke up with me, stalked me and took me to court, I told my T that I still missed my ex and so badly wanted to still be friends with her. My T asked me "do you think that's possible with her?"

I remember thinking "well why wouldn't it be possible? everyone has friends!" and now, after all I've learned, all I've read here, and after seeing all the replacements that came after me, I find myself thinking about that scene at the start of the darjeeling limited:

"I promise, I will never be your friend. No matter what. Ever."

[Turkish]

I talked to my T yesterday about my uBPDx inviting me to lunch with her and the kids after church. I said I declined, and he said, "Good!" His suggested response, since I haven't given a reason to the kids' mom, was along the lines of, "you know, you're taking some positive steps here, and taking the kids to church is a good thing, and good for you as well. I don't, however, wish to spend time with someone who betrayed and lied to me. If you found a good therapist, and spent time digging into the roots of your past, getting out of what is an unhealthy, adolescent relationship and made real steps to improve, then yes, perhaps, maybe in 5 years, we could get together again and go out to lunch. Until then, why would I open myelf up for the possibility of more pain, hurt and possible betrayal?"

[State85]

my exgf, after each b/u, always wanted to remain friends. Even now, 6 mos later she still does. She remains friends with all of her ex's.

But, I have found that it is on her terms, not mine or ours. She would only contact me when she needed something, or when something went wrong in her current r/s and she needed to feel better about herself so she would devalue me for a bit.

I really do not think she really thinks of me as a friend, but rather wants to call it that so I will hang around, so she can call on me when everyone else has abandoned her... .

My real/true friends would not treat me this way... . friendship in my opinion is not possible. And with my exgf, I don't think it is possible even in the future.

[1BrickShort]

Last week, after a 5th chaotic week during a swing with my (BPD/BiP/ASD) ex, she started telling her work friends we mutually agreed to break-up (we weren't together so this was really random)... .

And then asked me if I thought we could still be friends.

I replied, "You have ALWAYS treated your friends better than you've treated me. We have never really been friends."

Ironically, just a week prior I'd asked her how she managed to be kind and thoughtful to some of her friends that she hadn't heard from in awhile, calling and making plans, seeing how they were doing and inviting them out, while she couldn't manage anything toward me except treating me like hit.

You know the drill... .

IMO, it's quite likely you have much better friends in much better places who are able to be true friends.

[1BrickShort]

IMHO sure friendship is possible, if you want a 'friend' you could never trust, could never depend on, lied, and who made up stories about you.     With 'friends' like that who needs enemies?    I would rather spend my effort and time on the people who wanted to be in my life that were real friends. 

This. A billion times, this.

[willy45]

I talked to my T yesterday about my uBPDx inviting me to lunch with her and the kids after church. I said I declined, and he said, "Good!" His suggested response, since I haven't given a reason to the kids' mom, was along the lines of, "you know, you're taking some positive steps here, and taking the kids to church is a good thing, and good for you as well. I don't, however, wish to spend time with someone who betrayed and lied to me. If you found a good therapist, and spent time digging into the roots of your past, getting out of what is an unhealthy, adolescent relationship and made real steps to improve, then yes, perhaps, maybe in 5 years, we could get together again and go out to lunch. Until then, why would I open myelf up for the possibility of more pain, hurt and possible betrayal?"

Oh man. That is such a good quote. I guess whenever my ex calls and I pick up, that is the underlying hope, that she has gotten help, understands her role in the relationship failing and that we could start again (even just as friends). That is the true fantasy land I live in. I know that there is no hope in that at all. She is a workaholic. And she still thinks everything was my fault. It is nutty.

[Turkish]

I talked to my T yesterday about my uBPDx inviting me to lunch with her and the kids after church. I said I declined, and he said, "Good!" His suggested response, since I haven't given a reason to the kids' mom, was along the lines of, "you know, you're taking some positive steps here, and taking the kids to church is a good thing, and good for you as well. I don't, however, wish to spend time with someone who betrayed and lied to me. If you found a good therapist, and spent time digging into the roots of your past, getting out of what is an unhealthy, adolescent relationship and made real steps to improve, then yes, perhaps, maybe in 5 years, we could get together again and go out to lunch. Until then, why would I open myelf up for the possibility of more pain, hurt and possible betrayal?"

:

Oh man. That is such a good quote. I guess whenever my ex calls and I pick up, that is the underlying hope, that she has gotten help, understands her role in the relationship failing and that we could start again (even just as friends). That is the true fantasy land I live in. I know that there is no hope in that at all. She is a workaholic. And she still thinks everything was my fault. It is nutty.

For the record,  unless she did something way out of line, I  wouldn't say that to her.  She's still engaged in unhealthy behaviors.  but at least she's searching.  for the kids sake,  I'll give her that credit  tacitly,  if not explicitly. a  few times in the past,  she's needed the truth from me (and weirdly responded to it like a contrite daughter),  but I'm trying to get out of  the unhealthy father/ daughter dynamic.

[Octoberfest]

Now that I am more clearly seeing my BPDex for who she really is, not who I wanted her to be for so long, I don't WANT to be friends with her.  Even if none of the hurt or betrayal were there, knowing who she really is, how she treats people, and how she acts, I don't want to be friends with someone like that.

Ironic that I fell in love with someone I wouldn't even want to be friends with, isn't it?

[AwakenedOne]

No, can't be friends.

Even the thought of seeing this toxic person ever again makes me sick