why did I tolerate this relationship?

[rougeetnoir]

I've been out of my relationship almost 3 months, been doing some analyzing of me and what kept me in my relationship and why this break-up has been so hard to take.

There are several reasons why I tolerated this relationship:

1. she used emotional blackmail, and to someone who was (as I joke) raised catholic by my jewish mother, that'll get me every time.  Moreover, a permanent sense of indebtedness is part of the ethos of my family.  I grew up in a well-to-do family and the adage "of whom much is given, much is expected" seemed to be drilled into me as well. In this specific case, she had a 5 (now 6 year old) with whom I just hit it off.  we had a great time together and loved one another.  The day after I left from the physical abuse, she texted "You just pretended to be his dad."  At that point (once I had some distance and a friend by my side telling me that bringing the kid in was a no go), what she was doing was so obvious, but during the relationship I kept feeling I needed to prove her wrong.  The proving relates back to me, because (as I've mentioned elsewhere) I elevate rationality over feelings in order to protect myself.

2.  Part of the reason that I'm struggling now is that I had largely recovered from a major bout of depression (I don't know if I'll ever fully be cured of all of my depression, to be honest) and was actually working pretty hard on myself. I was feeling good.  I had dated off and on before, had a couple of serious relationships (couple of months) that just sort of petered out, but were functional (as in not dysfunctional) and fun. I had learned lessons from my depression (not keep things bottled up, share my good and bad feelings, keep active etc.) and then I ended up in this relationship where my bad feelings were used against me ("You're just saying that because you're depressed" and I didn't feel comfortable sharing them by the end.  Moreover, because I was exhausted from fighting my depression, I slipped on keeping fit and being active (though I did walk her dog everyday for about a half-hour). Moreover, I'm sure that my depression was some sort of trigger for her given her mother's mental health problems. 

This relationship has sent me back, because I was doing the right thing (and I think I stuck it out, because I was trying to be better in a relationship with a partner.  I kept thinking I can do better.  In fact, I had even suggested couples counseling before the split, because I wanted us both to do better for the child.) and it got me into a worse position than I started in.  I'm staying in temporary quarters for the next couple of months until I move (I had an apartment before this relationship), I lost a child who is dear to me, I lost a lot. I feel like I've lost a lot of ground, too. 

I've been struggling with depression since I was 15 (at least diagnosed), so nearly 20 years.  So, going through this break-up has left me feeling a bit despondent and in my darker moments I wonder if things will ever get better, because once I felt like I had started getting things under control, I got smacked back.  It makes it hard for me to keep doing the small things (meditation, even eating healthy) that I know will keep me from spiraling into a major depression, because I've pulled myself out of this hole several times and I'm getting tired of pulling myself out.

I'm also sure that a part of me stayed, even though I was feeling depressed from the relationship, because depression is so easy and comfortable to me.  I've lived my life with it.  I know low grade depression.  I handle it.  I survive it.  And so when it crept up on me, I didn't notice it right away.  And there were enough good moments with the child that I thought it'd be okay.  I apologized to her for this.  It wasn't fair to her or to her child.  When I broke NC to send her a note for my personal closure (about three weeks ago), this was a major thing I apologized for.  But now I'm in a bigger depression and I'm struggling again.  It is why I didn't act sooner on breaking up.  The small depression I know is easier than the big ones.  This may seem strange to many people, but keeping myself happy is hard f-ing work and to finally get there and have this relationship smack me back is demoralizing.

3.  Another thing that is very difficult from this relationship is that I felt like my good qualities were used against me.  I consider myself terribly loyal-- and I remember us having a fight once and her declaring that "I'm going to have to find someone else to watch the child now" and me replying that even if we were fighting and I had said I would watch the child I would.  AFter she put her hands around my neck and I packed my stuff and left, I remember her saying "Well, I thought you said you'd watch the child no matter what."

4. I know I won't contact her anymore, because in trying to get her back I know I'd just be using her to help me with my depression and that isn't fair to her.  It's exactly what recycling BPDs do and this board has allowed me to see the pain that causes.  And yet, because at several points in our relationship she was so close to getting help, I find it hard to fully detach, because I'm still guarding that sliver of hope.  Partially for us, but also for the child.  I wish I could be like many people and just hate my ex (hell, I would've been out a lot sooner), but I'm still filled with empathy and compassion for her. Sadly, I've been painted black and my early expressions of empathy are met with anger (for instance, one of her friends had tried to contact me after the breakup and still sent me texts and so after I had moved out, I said "all I really want is for you to watch out for my ex."  Once my ex found out, she raged at me). Ultimately, I have to accept that the best thing here is to let her have her space.

I guess I'm having a hard time figuring out the lessons from this relationship. I know a big part of why I stuck around was the kid.  I wanted to provide some normalcy in his life that wasn't necessarily happening and we got along so great so fast. I believe that if it weren't for him, I would've been gone sooner.  Losing the child hurts the most and I don't know if I'm ready to detach from him, honestly.

I think I'll have to start seeing a therapist more regularly. Although getting these things out here has helped.

[Sunny Side]

Hi rougeetnoir, in my BPD r/s there were also kids involved (D11, S10) who I became quite attached to as a surrogate father to, esp. the S10 who has inherited many of the maladaptive coping traits of his uBPD mom. 

The following has helped me with the same question, "Why did I tolerate this r/s?" when I knew that the r/s could not survive outside the fantasy world we created.  I have bolded some statements for emphasis and also realize that I represent the "lonely child" in the example.   I hope you find some insight in them.  And remember that the cure for the pain is in the pain.  Keep letting her go and keeping investigating you, and do both with an open heart.


"In some relationships, the idealization phase is the partner being in lonely child stance and the Borderline being in abandoned child stance.  Both need saving.  Both need attachment to stave off the pain of being alone.  This is one type of bonding seen in this community.

In this bond, both people bring core trauma to the relationship. Mirroring reenacts the earliest childhood experiences to rise up and emerge into consciousness.

In idealization, there is a dual identification and projection for both people that they have found a perfect love- however, one partner (the “lonely child”) does not yet realize that the other partner (the abandoned child= Borderline) has no whole self- and is utilizing a fantasy of a part-time good in order to fuse with the partner's part time good and become one.

The lonely child has spent much of their life becoming “one.”  When a lonely child finds an abandoned child, both parties feel needed. However, rather than truly loving the individuality of both parties- the sad, fantasy aspect of mirroring magnifies the unhealthy needs of both people.

When the lonely child begins to question the reality of mirroring (reality testing) this raises core traumas into activation concerning both the questioning (uncertainty) and the hope (unfulfilled expectations) of the unrealistic attachment. "Lack of inherent trust" is found in both parties at this stage.

Reality testing causes the lonely child to pull away because certain things don't add up- as you say, "the idealization phase slowly erodes."

Pulling away, even while in the lap of comfortable luxury- triggers the abandoned child issues of the Borderline. This causes panic reactions of clinging behaviors by the Borderline to prevent the retreat of their desired love object. These immature demands can look like entitlement to others, especially to a lonely child, who has learned early on to be self sufficient and to self soothe- but the entitlement markers are highly charged and emotional to a Borderline, which isn’t Narcissistic grandiosity- it’s ego deficiency and panic.

The entitlement phase brings a hidden "angry and aggressive child" out from hibernation and into full view and this usually occurs when the lonely child least expects it.  The angry child that emerges is pissed and has delusions of persecution that are ideas of reference from earlier childhood trauma. It’s at this point that the angry child (Borderline) will become enraged and try to cast off shame.  They may attempt to harm himself/herself in order to scapegoat the lonely child- who unwittingly stands-in for the earliest attachment.  This triggers the lonely child's trauma from their earliest attachment as well.

The Borderline wants so badly to be whole that they demand that the lonely child create wholeness for them- which the partner succeeds in doing early on but then relaxes. The Borderline temper tantrum, with its ideas of reference being so very childlike and fantastic, perceives the relaxation of the partner as though the attachment is split up. In order to cope, the Borderline must now find another part time perceived good object to self medicate the emotions of feeling badly from the split.  If this cannot be accomplished, the surge of limbic fear concerning anger and abandonment causes such great pain that self harm is often inflicted for relief.

The lonely child is often very surprised by this. The anger and dysregulation are in contrast to what he/she perceives are necessary for the circumstances. (The lonely child fails to see need disguised as "love."  Therefore, the lonely child seeks to understand the Borderlines ideas of reference concerning "love" in order to cope with the neediness and begins a line of questioning.  The Borderline retreats.

Lonely child is "understanding driven" and gets drawn into the Borderline acting out. The lonely child now has a mystery- the Borderline dilemma of "who am I?" This is very likely the same way that the lonely child came into existence as an “understanding driven” child. Especially when he questioned the motives of his earliest attachments during infancy and adolescence.



The lonely child understands the need to be held, loved and understood – because that’s what he longs for in others. The lonely child feels that in order to deal with acting out of the Borderline- the lonely child must project the aura of grace, compassion and understanding upon the Borderline and also guide, teach and show the way- because after all, that’s what the lonely child would want someone to do for him. There was a large reason that the initial mirroring (of this fixer /rescuer ego) worked so well in the idealization stage- the relationship really WAS the projection of lonely child that was mirrored, not the deficient ego of the Borderline.

In the "upside down" world of the Borderline, the lonely child is the perfect attachment to fuse to and the hypersensitive Borderline is the perfect mystery for the lonely child to try to understand.  This is the reactivation of a childhood dynamic- that forms a needy bond.

 

[Lucky Jim]

Hey rougeetnoir, I think you're asking the right question.  Another question might be: why did I get in a BPD r/s in the first place?  I think it's normal to feel depressed after a b/u with a pwBPD.  If depression can be caused when it seems like our actions have no consequences, you can see why a BPD r/s might lead to depression, because we Nons try so hard only to find out that BPD is far more complex than we could ever have imagined, and that our actions have limited effect on reducing the negative aspects of the disorder on a r/s.  That you are out of the r/s is a good thing, so hang in there.  LuckyJim

[rougeetnoir]

Thanks Sunnyside and Lucky Jim for the comments. 

I've been thinking about this issue of a core trauma or some sort of "lonely kid" syndrome and I couldn't really place it in my situation.  Certainly, like many I wanted love, but as I've pointed out, I was comfortable moving in and out of relationships.  Moreover, I've been through pretty intense therapy as part of my treatment for depression and while one may find such trauma in my life (namely that when I was very young both my grandfather and uncle died suddenly, certainly meaning my mother probably didn't give me the requisite love at that stage in my life), but I've been depressed for so long that I am quite sure a significant component of it is chemical and while in the relationship (except for one pause) I've been taking my meds regularly since October. 

But as I played around with this in my mind, I realized that there is a core issue for me:  And it is an inability to forgive myself.  It has gotten better, but it is there at the heart of me.  What am I guilty of?  Well, I feel a lot of guilt over simply being depressed (a guilt that my ex played off of), but I also feel a lot of guilt for getting angry.  My temper has been an issue for me since childhood-- one that I've worked on a great deal, but like most people I still lose it, especially with my ex intentionally trying to push my buttons.

But more specifically in this relationship, I've been thinking about specific things I said when I was angry.  I felt particularly guilty when she'd attack and attack and after a long period of trying to deflect these attacks or treat them rationally, I lost it (and as most of you know these attacks could go and go and go and I'd try and try and try) and simply told her that I thought she was a bad mother, as it was the most hurtful thing I could think of.  I'd like forgiveness for this, but today as I was driving (and inspired by an article about a drug addicted mom and a conversation with a friend about the similarities between pwBPD and drug addicts), I realized that what I said was true.  I'd talk to her about the way she'd speak to me and how her son would mimic it-- she didn't care. In the morning (probably because she was co-morbid with depression) she was quite prickly and snappy with her son.  I can give countless examples, but because of her condition, she wasn't as available to her child as she should have been.  I remember multiple times, begging her to get help, if not for me then for her child. 

I said this in anger.  I've felt shame about it, but today was the first day when I realized that I shouldn't.  It was cruel, it was said in anger, but it was also the truth.  I shouldn't have said it, but I did, because I saw it.  I felt it.  I knew it.  Obviously, that would cause damage to any relationship, but I think I said it because every other avenue hadn't gotten through to her and it was the truth I was living.

In sum, my own guilt meant I tolerated her longer than I should've.  I waited around for her to forgive me, because I won't forgive myself.

[pallavirajsinghani]

Hello My Friend:  Your post resonates with me on so many levels.  It seems to me that you most probably have "clinical depression".  Which is different from "situational depression".   Since you have been suffering from it since you were 15, most probably it is due to lack of a certain chemical in your brain... . possibly Serotonin.  There is no shame in aggressively soliciting a diagnosis and seeking medication for it. 

Once you have this under control, only then can you effectively deal with the pain of separation.  Of course, every good and holy instinct in you (love of a child, love of a person), has just been negated.  The nectar of your love has been used up in watering a seed sown in sand.  It is indeed devastating.

I don't think that your inner reconciliation with the experience can occur unless and until managing the clinical aspect of your depression is also part of it.

I would really recommend a good counselor who is also licensed to prescribe medication.  This way you can get clinical assistance on both fronts... . the physical problem of clinical depression and the psychological problem of the depressive aftermath of a breakup.

I hope that you will take good care of yourself.  You seem to be an awesome person... . there is a wonderful life right in front of you waiting for you to take it.

God Bless.

[Pecator]

Hey rouge,

I really appreciate you posting as you have. For one, it got a response from Sunny that while may not connect for you, has opened quite a path for me!

There are two other points though for which I am grateful.

One, the kids. I so believe I should go N/C with my ex except for her kids (S18, S15). We grew so close. I love kids, became attached to other partners' kids, but these were the first I could honestly say I began to love as my own. The mess their mother created has caused a lot of stress for them as well. They still text me to tell me so. I so get the powerlessness  here.

The second is your depression. For me it was anxiety. Like you, I suffered from it for most of my life. I didn't even know until, while in this relationship, I began to understand its role in my life. I can see your distinction between "big" and "small," things I could handle and things that got too big.

My only insight is around the feeling of being "smacked back." I totally get that. I took a path to be with my ex that so confounded my path to recovery that my therapists almost gave up on me. I knew what I could survive. My uBPDex smacked me back so many times. I had to deal with those "smacks" as well as the circumstances that fed my anxiety that had nothing to do with her. I remember December being the first time in many years I felt I had my life back, I felt I had my brain back. Then the first week in January she destroyed me again. I was back to where I was two years ago... . But really I wasn't.

Very clearly in your posts, you have made great strides in your struggle with depression. You clearly have the insight to continue working for health. Don't let this ebb away at your determination. This situation is not a continuation of your ongoing struggles. PwBPD bring fresh wounds to our lives. It is unfortunate that this has happened and looking at issues that my you susceptible to these events is a heathy path. But the pain you are going through now has less to do with your struggle with depression than being in a r/s with a pwBPD.

Believe me, I went back to paralyzing days with my anxiety. At times, I felt like this was never going to end. But reading the posts here, I understand that this is a fresh wound. The anxiety I was experiencing was not because my condition was hopeless. It was because I was unfortunate enough to get entwined with a pwBPD. I survived many "big" and "small" things in the past. This is just another "big" thing to deal with. And now I have better tools to handle it.

A relationship with someone who exhibits BPD traits is not a reflection of the struggles we face outside of a relationship (though it can point to some areas to examine). The struggles it brings are fresh and unto themselves. I we have the survivor skills to deal with this!





 

[Sunny Side]

Rouge and pecator, very thoughtful posts from you both.  And glad, pecator, you found something you can use.   

As an exercise I'm going to write out a list of the insane behaviors I tolerated, my own included, as a constant reminder of just how truly dysfunctional and unsustainable the r/s was!  It's easy to repress this inside the euphoria created by the false bond.

And Rouge, your mention of anger and forgiveness is a good one.  Anger and its stunted stepchild repression, made me think of how angry I felt when my BPD ex would present me with such baffling, dysregulated behaviors and how my attempts to preserve the false bond resulted in my suppressing what surely was a righteous and appropriate tool for survival (anger!).

A passage from psychologist Alice Miller's essay "Concerning Foregiveness: The Liberating Experience of Painful Truth" sheds some light on this for me.  Of course your own mileage may vary. 

From Alice Miller:

"Thus, the healthy impulse to protest against inhumanity has to be suppressed. The child attempts to extinguish and erase from memory everything that has happened to it, in order to banish from consciousness the burning outrage, fury, fear, and the unbearable pain - as it hopes, forever. What remains is a feeling of its own guilt, rather than outrage that it is forced to kiss the hand that beats it and beg for forgiveness - something that unfortunately happens more than one imagines."

and then

"But today I know: I always needed to expose and fight against opinions and attitudes that I considered destructive of life wherever I encountered them, and not to tolerate them. But I could only do this effectively once I had felt and experienced what was inflicted on me earlier. By preventing me from feeling the pain, the moral religious injunction to forgive did nothing but hinder this process.

The demand for good behavior has nothing to do with either an effective therapy or life. For many people in search of help, it closes the path to freedom."

[Narellan]

Sunnyside your first reply spoke absoulute volumes to me, it really was a lightbulb moment.

I had always kmown i had a rescuer personality, but this post has really cleared the fog.

No idea what ill do about it but thankyou for the information.

[Lucky Jim]

I felt particularly guilty when she'd attack and attack and after a long period of trying to deflect these attacks or treat them rationally, I lost it (and as most of you know these attacks could go and go and go and I'd try and try and try) and simply told her that I thought she was a bad mother, as it was the most hurtful thing I could think of.  

Hey rougeetnoir, It's time to forgive yourself.  I suspect we have all "lost it" at one time or another under the barrage from our BPD SOs.  I did plenty of things that I'm not proud of, yet they were done under circumstances of extreme stress.

 I like to refer to three phases that I went through in response to the attacks: doormat, fighting fire with fire and ultimately detachment.  The final phase led to our parting ways, because I was no longer willing to invest my emotions in a r/s in which my feelings were regularly trampled.  So I became sort of a stranger in my own marriage, unwilling to share anything with my Ex.  Now, after our divorce, I'm back on a path reconnecting with myself again.  LuckyJim

[rougeetnoir]

First, I want to say thanks for all of the comments.  And for the several of you who expressed concern, I have a neuropharmacologist/therapist with whom I'm working who has helped me continue and expand my treatment that I re-started 4-5 years ago.

Thanks for the kind words, Jim. And you are right about forgiving myself and I'm trying to take some steps in that direction: i've bought a couple of self-help books dealing with guilt and self-forgiveness and am starting the various activities in them.  I'm trying to meditate and when I find myself returning to the ruminative thoughts on the relationship, I just say to myself "It's not your fault" (or even better, "It's not my fault".

SunnySide, I don't want you to think that your suggestions weren't helpful, because it did help me to identify the core issue or weakness which was exploited: my own feelings of guilt and lack of self-forgiveness.  It seems to me that a big part of therapy is uncovering the "core issues" (be they attitudes or traumas) and work on recovering those.  I don't know if I feel inadequate and need to fix everything else, because of that lack of love or my chemical depression is so strong. But I do know it is a bad attitude that needs fixing.

Additionally, I'm thinking through the second quotes you posted.

Pescator, thanks again for the kind words and for the suggestions. Your perspective helped a lot.

[rougeetnoir]

On a slightly separate note, I had a talk with a friend with whom I was discussing some of her problems and her recent bout with depression.  One of the things that was difficult in this relationship (and in general) is that I can put others first (as I did with my exBPD) to the point that I don't care for myself (I've discussed some of the reasons for this above) and she was behaving in the same way.

I told her that a particular quote helped me to realize that a depressed person couldn't truly help someone else was from The Brothers Karamazov when Father Zosima says "He who loves men, loves their gladness too."  And a depressed person can't be fully available to someone if they don't enjoy their happiness, too. 

We may want to help the BPD, but if we can't enjoy their happinesses (as fleeting and overwritten with all the negative things that they are), we can't really help them.

[Madison66]

Hi rougeetnoir,

I really enjoyed reading this thread!  Your posts were so honest and real.  I envy your strength in the face of ending your r/s and dealing with your depression.  Although I don't suffer from clinical depression, I certainly have experienced situational depression and share the trait of putting others before myself at times.  I did that a ton during my 3+ year r/s with uBPD/NPD ex gf.  I too had to walk away from r/s with her three young children (and very troubled kids).  In the last six months we were together, I dealt with a number of life issues (daughter's eating disorder, Mother's Alzheimer's diagnosis and brother's alcoholism).  I realized that I had to get out of the r/s and begin taking care of myself so I could be the best for those who needed my love, strength and support.  That was the turning point for me to start looking within myself for healing, love and acceptance.  I could then project that love, strength, support, acceptance, etc. outwardly.  WOW - talk about empowering and I'm sure there will be ripple effects of this decision for years to come!  I still face some anxiety and fears, but I'm just more self aware and accepting of my own feelings. 

So, I hear to tell you that YES, YES, YES, YES and YES please focus on YOU and take care of yourself.  The "gifts" from making this decision are unending!

[fuzz]

 I like to refer to three phases that I went through in response to the attacks: doormat, fighting fire with fire and ultimately detachment.  The final phase led to our parting ways, because I was no longer willing to invest my emotions in a r/s in which my feelings were regularly trampled.  So I became sort of a stranger in my own marriage, unwilling to share anything with my Ex.  


Reading this has been a kind of a eureka moment for me.    Although not married, I went through the same phases too (maybe a lot of us nons do).   I didn't 'plan' to move from phase one, nor expected to.   Was natural involuntary progression in thr r/s.  But I had held so much guilt from when I changed from being almost silent while he raged to not just taking it any longer.   Guilt because I had a voice ?

This was a succinct and reassuring post, thanks.

rougeetnoir, I hope this great thread makes your path ahead clearer.  Has been an eye-opener.

[cantbreal]

We all asks ourselves the same thing, when I think back a couple months I can't believe me a grown man acted like that, its the fog the shock of them just leaving that just shook me, I NEVER would have expected it, and so we know I am far far from over it, I miss her so much but I now see how stupid I was to put up with the crap, its going to be a long road for me, as long as I stay away from her I can heal better but since we have a child it's tough I just keep repeating the nasty things she said to me over and over til I get mad