I want out, but I don't want to lose the rest of my family... torn

[kookaburra13]

Hello friends!  Since last posting on this board I have gotten counseling and have personally made strides to help myself cope and accept my situation with my BPD mother.  She also seemed to get better for about a year.  Instead of forcing me to call her twice a day between 9am and 9pm and following all her rules, I am now free to talk to her as I please (within reason in her mind of course), but things are getting worse again.  My sister has been homeschooled and is basically her little minion.  I do not have a relationship with my little sister at all, (which is really hard for me because I do feel bad that I couldn't save her), but anytime I try to talk to my sister, she says the words my mother feeds her.  She has a negative view of me because that is what my mother tells her I am.  Whenever I go home it is a constant battle, and now instead of my mother just terrorizing me personally, she does the same through my little sister.  Most times I just lock myself in my closet to get away from them.  My dad and I are really close... . but where is my dad while all of this happens?  He leaves the situation... . and me.  This past weekend I broke down crying after my mom and sister ambushed me, and he just left the house (after saying nothing during the blowout).  I talked to him later, and he said "I can't do anything. I get yelled at for saying anything and for not saying anything."  So I told him to just leave. He will be miserable the rest of his life and he deserves better.

I know that things will not get better there and I want more than anything to just cut my mom and sister out of my life and be done with it... . but of course it is complicated.  I feel trapped.  I have two years of college left, and my dad (mom doesn't work) is helping me pay some expenses.  Though it is technically his money, he lets my mother have control of it, giving her the power to cut me off (which she has threatened to do many times).  The main thing I am concerned about when it comes to going LC/VLC/NC is that I will lose my family.  I am afraid that my dad will allow her to control him and that he won't see me or talk to me either.  He has said to me in some situations where I called him that I need to call my mom too so that he doesn't get in trouble.  I am concerned for him because he already misses me so much.  I am also worried about losing the extended family on both sides... . everyone... . but mostly concerned about dad.  My only hope is that my leaving would inspire him to leave, but I am probably being unrealistic.  At the end of the day, my dad deserted me in this situation.  He has not been my parent... . but the sometimes parent when it is easier for him.  Conditional parenting.  And I don't need that either.

How do I go about doing this?  How did you handle this situation?  thank you so much for all your support and advice.  Reading all these posts gives me hope!

[coraliesolange]

Sigh.  A lot of that sounds really familiar.  My dad just died last weekend and I got a call tonight from his sister stating that she wasn't being allowed to talk to my little sister who happens to have aspergers and can't really stick up for herself.  I want nothing more than to never speak to the female parental unit again but I feel guilty about abandoning my sister and I'm afraid I'll be cut off from the rest of my family.  This is really tough.  I wish you the best of luck.  I really don't have any advice, just a similar situation so I know how much it sucks.

[Sitara]

I can very much relate to much of your story. My mom also interfered with my relationship with my sister, and my dad was also an enabler who would not stand up to protect me. He would use the same sort of excuses to not get involved. Ultimately things got so bad that I did set my foot down, essentially to the point where I said that she needed to be willing to work on her half or our relationship wasn't going to work at all. As a result I haven't heard from my family in over half a year. Both of my parents feel that it's the child's duty to make phone calls and keep in touch, but I feel it's not a one-way thing and I refuse to continue to do all the work, so that's why I haven't heard from them. My sister and I have always had a difficult relationship and my sister took the opportunity to cut me off when I had a big argument with my parents. I didn't have any extended relatives because my mom had come up with reasons to cut them all off when I was much younger. So I lost what little family I had left.

I don't regret it one bit. I'm much happier and healthier and I've been using this calm, quiet time to focus on myself, healing my issues and focusing on being a better parent to my kids. If my parents ever decide they want to be part of my life I'll be much more able to handle upholding my boundaries and staying calm with them. I do feel my life has improved without them in it. But I do realize that this isn't for everyone.

Have you tried focusing hard on boundaries and the communication techniques?

Just remember that you can only control your behavior. You can't make your dad want to get out or stop your sister from just repeating your mom's words. If you decide to cut off your mom or your sister, whether your dad continues a relationship is on him. And I know that's hard to accept. Best of luck.

And coraliesolange, so sorry to hear about your father. 

[CrazyNoMore]

Kookaburra,

Sixteen years ago, I was in the same situation, although I managed to hang on until I finished college and could support myself. And the fact is, that can make a big difference, I know.

I had to make a choice -- them or me.  Awful, yes, but it was that simple.  

At at almost 30 years old, for the first time in my life, I chose... . me.

As a result I lost my entire family.  I lost my church.  I lost friends I had in common with my sister.  Photos, mementos, entire chunks of my past.  I don't have a single photo of myself as a child.  I had to leave them all behind.  

Sixteen years later - it was worth it.   Was it scary?  Oh, yes.  but so worth it.  I don't say this to tell you what to do, because that's a deeply personal decision, and nobody's situation is exactly the same, but I say it to say that you can build a whole 'nother life for yourself.  One that's on your terms; where you decide what you will and will not tolerate.  

[kookaburra13]

Thank you all so much for your replies and suggestions.  My heart goes out to you. 

CrazyNoMore,

Your decision sounds like my current plan.  I AM afraid.  How did you go about doing it?  How did you prepare?  What did you tell people?  I am nervous about others reactions.  I know they won't understand, but I want to portray it in a way so that they won't be so skeptical... . if that is even possible... . How did you deal with this?

Thanks again!

[CrazyNoMore]

CrazyNoMore,

Your decision sounds like my current plan.  I AM afraid.  How did you go about doing it?  How did you prepare?  What did you tell people?  I am nervous about others reactions.  I know they won't understand, but I want to portray it in a way so that they won't be so skeptical... . if that is even possible... . How did you deal with this?

Well, I was such a mess that I DIDN'T deal with it.  I didn't TELL anybody.  I just kind of dropped off the face of the earth.  Why?  Because I was afraid of people's reactions.  And I think I knew, somewhere deep inside, that my extended family and church "family" would pressure me into not doing it because then my mother's wrath would be unleashed on someone else and nobody wanted to be the recipient of that.  Frankly, I was a big fat chicken about it and I'm not particularly proud of that.  I was sure there were a lot of people who developed a very poor opinion of me in the years immediately following my disappearance.  I'm sure I was painted as having "abandoned" my "poor mother". 

But the thing was, I was at my breaking point.  I had met a great guy who loved me and wanted to marry me and I loved and wanted to marry him.  But I knew, I KNEW it was never EVER going to work with my mother in the picture.  That's the choice I had to make.  A new life with someone who actually wanted me in his life and treated me with the basic human respect and decency that everyone deserves, or waste the next 30 years of my life trying to do what I had failed to do up until that point - make her happy and have normal mother-daughter relationship.

I didn't know about BPD then.  I hadn't heard of "no contact" or "limited contact".   All I knew was that my mother had always been "difficult" and had gotten exponentially worse with my engagement and that there was just no reasoning with her anymore.

I wish I had a better answer for you, but there it is.

Still don't regret doing it, though.

[Jenniferhurts]

This was my situation when I stopped having contact with my family. The threat of stopping support is another way to control you. I was absolutely terrified but I got a part time job and lived in the dorms for college it was right but I did it. The first thing I'll tell you was that it was worth it. The freedom of making your own choices of not being afraid of your mother. Of being able to choose for yourself is amazing. The second is that you be afraid that's normal but it's worth it. One day when you are stronger and can set boundaries and stick to them with your mom you may be able to come back. My siblings at first hated me but ad they got older they realized why I had left. Being your own person is worth it and it's ok to want your own life

[tryintogetby]

I lost my family, but I gained my soul. <3. In reality, I didn't have a family--I had a mental hospital ward.  What finally pushed me over the edge was when she tried to come between me & my future husband---then I got pregnant within a year of our marriage.  Would I subject a baby to her insanity?  It was suddenly not about me anymore--it was aboutthe people I loved.

You say your sister is homeschooled--are your parents a part of a fundamentalist sect?  If so, have you seen www.nolongerquivering and www. Homeschoolersanonymous?  You might find some really, really good, non-sectarian support there.  If you'd rather have Christian/ Biblical support for going no-contact, check out www.luke173ministries.org.  I've also started blogging about the links between the Christian Patriarchy Movement & personality disorders at www.taylorjoyrecovers.wordpress.com.  Please keep us updated!

[kookaburra13]

Thank you all so much for your input so far.  I am reaching a breaking point with my mother.  Things aren't as bad as they have been in the past, but I am starting to see the precursors to a really bad point, and I WILL NOT tolerate that again.  I feel that I am a lot stronger now, so I can deal with cutting them out of my life.  One of the main reasons I was not ready to do so any sooner was that my parents were supposed to help me pay for college.  They told me in high school that if I did well, they would pay for college.  I was second in my class, so I trusted that they would pull through, and I was told they would since my dad has been very successful at his job.  I have recently learned that my father has been taking out loans in my name in order to pay for college... . without telling me.  He also has only paid for everything school related (tuition, books, rent, food, gas) with loans.  This is because my mother spends so much money constantly, and of course he cannot stand up to her.  Now I am interning, so I am making money, so I see no reason to stay in that situation.  I can deal with paying my own way if it means that I do not have to deal with any of them again. 

Recently, my mother is trying to cause problems with my boyfriend of over a year, who I love very much.  She did this with a previous boyfriend, and it was horrible.  She keeps trying to get me see how horrible things he does are.  Like it was my birthday this past week, which I celebrated with my bf multiple times the previous weekend (going out to eat, cake, gifts, etc.). I am interning about an hour away from where he is going to college, but about 10 min away from his family, so they took me to dinner after work.  He didn't come up because he had final projects and homework to do.  My mother told me that is just wrong and that he is treating me like crap and that it is her job to tell me so.  I put my foot down and just said ok I heard you, I let you say that and that is all, I don't want to hear it again... . And I haven't spoken to her since.  She tried texting and said "hi are you still mad at me?"... . to which I did not reply. I am tired of feeling an obligation to reply her and fearing how she will react.  I would not tolerate that behavior from anyone, so I am done tolerating that from her.  So, how should I tell my friends and boyfriend about BPD and explain the situation?  He knows that things are super messed up in my family, but I haven't told him about BPD yet. Should I?

ps-Thank you SO MUCH for all your help.  This message board is an invaluable resource. 

[P.F.Change]

Hi, there, kookaburra13!

It is good to see you posting again. I am glad to hear you have been getting therapy and learning some new ways to cope. I used to have a really hard time going back home in college, too. I know how it feels to have money used as control, also. A lot about your situation sounds really familiar.

You are in a pivotal place in your life. You are a young adult and so it is time to start branching out and doing things on your own. While a lot of people really benefit from having parents who are willing to help out with tuition, depending on the situation it can also be just as helpful for a child to begin assuming responsibility for his own finances. In your case, it sounds like the loans that pay for your expenses are already in your name (even though you didn't know about that at the time), so taking control of that aspect of your life makes a lot of sense.

I can also really understand why you feel like cutting your mother and sister out of your life. It sounds like a very painful situation for you and it might seem easier not to have to think about dealing with it. There was a period when I chose not to have contact with my parents, too, so I don't judge you for that and will agree that there are some pros. There are cons, too, some of which you've thought about already, such as how that would affect your relationship with your father and possibly not being understood by friends. One thing you may not have thought about is that staying in contact with your family with good boundaries--even if very limited, and even if it isn't easy--also offers a lot (ok, I know, a lot   ) of opportunities for you to practice detachment and healthy confrontation. I am not saying you should or should not end contact with your mother, just that there are some potential advantages to limited contact over estrangement. It's up to you to weigh the pros and cons with your therapist and decide what will be best for your continued progress.

For example, you took advantage of an opportunity here to communicate a boundary, which is good:

I put my foot down and just said ok I heard you, I let you say that and that is all, I don't want to hear it again... .

You may be able to find a balance that allows some kind of small connection to your mother and sister while also looking after your boundaries the way you did there. Maybe that means you don't stay with your parents at their house any more when you go home--this is something my sister and I have done that works for us. Maybe it means you only call every week or two. Maybe it means looking for other solutions to the things that make you feel "trapped," such as your finances. Knowing where your boundaries are and what you will do to look after them is really valuable.

I am going to be bold here and honest--I really do understand where this is coming from, and I still think it may be more beneficial to point it out to you than to validate it:

And I haven't spoken to her since.  She tried texting and said "hi are you still mad at me?"... . to which I did not reply.

This seems like a passive-aggressive response--silent treatment. Those of us who were raised by someone with BPD often learn to use passive-aggression to cope with anger because 1)that is often what has been modeled for us, and 2)it was not safe for us to express our anger openly in other ways. The trouble is, it doesn't actually resolve the conflict, and we may carry that into other relationships instead of learning how to have healthier confrontations. When we become adults, it is our responsibility to learn to understand, feel, and respond to our anger in healthier ways. This kind of work is a focus of Mourning stage of the Survivor's Guide (-->, and maybe you are ready for it, maybe not. This is an area where you may have an opportunity to grow and learn new skills by maintaining some limited contact with your mother, as I was talking about earlier. Of course, you can work on it in other relationships instead, however this seems to be the root relationship for you--the source of the anxiety about honest self-expression--and it can be the most empowering relationship to learn from. Does that make sense?

So, what options might have worked besides not responding? What would it have felt like to say, "Yes, I am still angry. I will need a few days to calm down before I talk with you again," or "No, I'm not angry, but I don't want to talk right now. I'll call you next week," or, "It did upset me that you said it is your job to tell me my boyfriend treats me like crap. I accept that you feel that way, and I feel differently. I do not want you to offer me advice about my boyfriend if I haven't asked you for it." Would there be any advantages to those responses that you can see? Any reason you would not want to try them?

Wishing you peace,

PF

[kookaburra13]

Good Morning PF!

Thanks for the advice.  My mother asked the same question a day later and I replied with: "I just don't want to start a fight with you.  I let you know my boundaries and I hope you can respect them."  The reason I did not reply with this the first time was that I knew she was only asking the question so that she could start drama with me, not that she actually cared about my feelings.  She answered: "Ignoring me is a great way not to cause a problem... very mature of you. and I hope you know I am your mother and will say what I need to say. I did it and I'm done... . I hope you can respect that too."  Me: "Ok. You don't need to say it anymore. Thanks."  Mom: "When something happens that needs to be said... . I will.  Unfortunately... . new things continue to happen... . and you are very welcome."  So basically early in the conversation, she was ok with respecting boundaries, and ended it by saying that she will break them any time she feels necessary because it is her job to tell and my job to listen.  All of these "issues" she is speaking of are created by her to try to cause a problem.  Nothing real is actually happening.  So my current plan is to continue to lay down my boundaries and not listen to her manufactured problems.  One thing I am afraid of is that she is going to start saying these things and I will have her voice buzzing in the back of my head, which will make me doubt if there are actually problems or if I am just perceiving what my mother says is there.  It is all mind games, which is what she wants, and I hate it.

PF-I really appreciate you being honest with me and calling me out on my passive-aggressive behavior.  The only way I will improve is if someone is there to tell me these things that I don't even notice.  It scares me to no end that I have been affected by my mother and MY behavior has changed because of the way she treated me.  I mean, it is totally reasonable that I have, but I don't like it.  I am so scared because I NEVER want to be like her.  What are some "side effects" of growing up with a BPD mom?  How to I notice these and improve them?  I do not ever want to treat others the way I was treated.

Thank you!

[P.F.Change]

I'm glad you were able to assert yourself with your mother.  

So basically early in the conversation, she was ok with respecting boundaries, and ended it by saying that she will break them any time she feels necessary because it is her job to tell and my job to listen. 

So, really, she's not going to respect that you don't want her to offer her opinion about your boyfriend. It is good that she seems understanding that you didn't reply to her right away, and it sounds like she still plans to say what she wants to you whether or not you want her to.

Her behavior is not in your power to change; all you can do is continue to look after yourself and have a plan in place so that you can be prepared to respond calmly when she does the same thing in the future.

One thing I am afraid of is that she is going to start saying these things and I will have her voice buzzing in the back of my head, which will make me doubt if there are actually problems or if I am just perceiving what my mother says is there.  It is all mind games, which is what she wants, and I hate it.

As I said eariler, you can count on her continuing to say things to you. It is up to you to decide what to do next--whether to listen or not, whether to accept her perceptions as truth, whether to let her have space in your head. This workshop on mindfulness and Wise Mind might be helpful to you: TOOLS: Triggering, Mindfulness, and the Wise Mind It may also help if you have trusted people in your life--such as your therapist or a close friend, or the members here on this board--that you can ask for perspective.

It scares me to no end that I have been affected by my mother and MY behavior has changed because of the way she treated me.  I mean, it is totally reasonable that I have, but I don't like it.  I am so scared because I NEVER want to be like her.  What are some "side effects" of growing up with a BPD mom?  How to I notice these and improve them?  I do not ever want to treat others the way I was treated.

All of us with a parent who has BPD have been affected by our upbringing in that environment. Many of us learned the same coping skills our parents modeled for us--which is to say, less-than-ideal ones. Now that we are adults we can work to identify problem areas in our life. Many people whose parent has BPD are anxious and depressed, have co-dependent tendencies, lack a sense of healthy boundaries,  and may even have a personality disorder themselves.This article discusses some other effects: How a Mother with Borderline Personality Disorder Affects Her Children Your therapist can help you identify patterns of thinking and behavior that may be problematic for you and work with you to learn healthier ones.

It is understandable that you are afraid of becoming like your mother, and it is good that you are willing to take a personal inventory in order to make positive changes. (This, too, is a big part of the Mourning phase of the Survivor's Guide.) I think a lot of people feel ashamed and scared when they start to identify behaviors that remind them of their parent; it is important to remember that having such traits is not hopeless and does not make someone a bad person. We can also keep in mind that our parents are not "all-bad," either. For example, even though I want to work to control my temper and not explode in rage at my children the way she often did with me, I can feel good about emulating the way she commits herself to community service. It's not all black-or-white.