She is good at making me feel liek crap.

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

She doesn't have any idea how she makes me feel. The few times I have addressed how I am feeling after she has asked me. I am told I am selfish and mean and cruel and you name it.  I had a horrible weekend in terms of this. I caused some of it by not standing up for myself becasue I was afraid of the conflict that would follow. I tried a little tid bit but she quickly saw that as being mean also.   

If I learned anything it is that I can not have any sort of feeling that is separate form hers. My hobby I was hoping to start. She says not worth the $ I won't spend time with it. She is right she won't let me have time to myself. I am selfish and cruel and don't wan tto be with her anymore if I want to do soemthign without her.

I hate that I ever got married. :'(

[Cipher13]

She doesn't have any idea how she makes me feel. The few times I have addressed how I am feeling after she has asked me. I am told I am selfish and mean and cruel and you name it.  I had a horrible weekend in terms of this. I caused some of it by not standing up for myself becasue I was afraid of the conflict that would follow. I tried a little tid bit but she quickly saw that as being mean also.   

If I learned anything it is that I can not have any sort of feeling that is separate form hers. My hobby I was hoping to start. She says not worth the $ I won't spend time with it. She is right she won't let me have time to myself. I am selfish and cruel and don't wan tto be with her anymore if I want to do soemthign without her.

I hate that I ever got married. :'(

[maxsterling]

Sorry you had to deal with this.  Are you still contemplating divorce, or are you trying to make things better within the marriage?

The sad truth here is that she will probably never be able to understand how much she hurts you.  She has BPD, and from what I have experienced, to the pwBPD their pain and suffering is always greater than your pain and suffering.  I remember once when my GF announced that practically word for word - any bad things that happened in my life are much less than the bad things that happened to her, and I should be quiet because I can't relate. 

And I am guessing when your wife does apologize, it is almost always, "I'm sorry I acted out, but... . (I am very stressed, you triggered me, I was scared, etc).  The apology is never "I'm sorry I hurt you."

It feels so hypocritical - they can be on your case hard for the same things that they are upset over others doing to them.  Imagine her reaction if you treated her the same way she does to you!  That just says to me there must be some kind of disconnect in the pwBPDs brain.  I remember once my GF complaining of an ex friend who used to complain about noises my GF made when she ate and how rude and hurtful that was.  And 15 minutes later, my GF was making comments about noises *I* made when I eat!  Go figure. 

You have to understand the way she learned to get what she wants in life is through criticism, blame, and manipulation.  It's going to take a lot of work to escape that cycle, and unfortunately it will also take you standing up for yourself and dealing with the backlash. 

[GreenMango]

Cipher you don'task for permission to do something for yourself that is reasonable (playing the guitar).  You take it.

Getting past the fear is going to help the most.  Maybe this will help - she's going to be upset either way ... . so then if you play guitar then at least the sadness and getting trampled on isn't yhere.  It's actually a win she still gets to be pissed and you still get to be yourself. 

Check out Auspicious's posts from the staying board.   He used to say you can't let a mentally ill person lead.  This is especially true for matters of self care.  Quit asking a mentally ill person to give you their  take on issues that aren't their business because if you are looking for permission or solidarity it's likely not to happen. She ain't the boss of you.

sorry to be so blunt.      I know this is hard.

[tired-of-it-all]

Excellent post GreenMango.

[Surnia]

Hi Cipher

perhaps you can look at it more closer, the fear of being selfish. What does this mean for you? Do you believe her? Which persons in your life told you to be selfish?

I can relate with it very much. Being in T during my very difficult marriage, I realized that being selfish is for me a number 1 fear. If someone important in my life would tell me I am lazy or I am dishonest it would be not such a difficult moment. I would be able to reframe the thought. Me dishonest? Really? Being selfish was different.

[Wrongturn1]

Cipher: First of all, congrats on that bonus payment (it's nice when good performance is rewarded)! 

Second, GreenMango is 100% correct above - you do not need your wife's permission to get that guitar, take lessons, or spend time playing.  Those are all healthy activities for you, and in reality, doing healthy things for yourself is not selfish.  Don't let someone with BPD warp your sense of reality... . any time you spend focusing on something other than her may well be perceived as selfish in her BPD mind... . but remember that her perceptions are skewed by the disorder.  You have the right and the ability to pursue healthy choices and activities for yourself.

[Cipher13]

Thanks everyone!  I have a very nice guitar put on layaway. Once I find out I don't have to pay a large sum on fixing my car. (I have to take it in to see why the check engine light is on). I can be on my way to my new hobby. I stopped in the guitar store last night while running an erand and put money down on it. I feel good.

[Wrongturn1]

Cipher:  BPD aside, the most recent 2 times the check engine light has come on in one of my vehicles, I was able to make it go away for less than $10 total.  The time before that, the issue was an oxygen sensor that I ordered online and replaced myself for about $100.

Instead of taking it into the shop, I would suggest driving your car over to the nearest Autozone (or similar store) - they typically read check engine codes for free.  Write down the code(s) your car is "throwing"; then search the online discussion forums for people who drive and work on the car you're dealing with.  Oftentimes, there are cheap fixes for check engine codes that you can implement yourself, instead of putting yourself at the mercy of your local mechanic, who might or might not have your best interests in mind.

Glad you're taking steps to get that guitar - stick with it!

[GreenMango]

Yay! That's great you like going into the music store and seeing all the instruments.  Simple pleasures.  Remember the old record stores?  This is time well spent ... . Cipher protect and savor those moments you deserve to enjoy life    eek it out in every little place you can right now and the bigger moves get easier.

[Cipher13]

A small victory for myself with the guitar. I don't offically have it yet its just on hold. But thats further than I was last week with this. Now the kicker happens last night. I applied for a application to hunt spring turkey. She told me she wasn't comfortabel with me doign that and couldn't trust me. I guess she figures I will go to some strange womans place instead and cheat. Nevermind that I get up at the same time I would for hunting as I do for work and everything. She had a fit int he fall when I went. I wasn't staying overnight anywhere I was home at the the end of the day.I even sen picture from the woods.  Not happy about this.

[Waddams]

Sometimes you just have to let someone be unhappy and have a fit.

[Wrongturn1]

+1 on what Waddams said.  If you skip spring turkey season for her, do you think it will magically cause her to trust you?  Follow through on getting your turkey permit/tags... . let her throw a fit if she wants. 

[GreenMango]

Cipher why even tell her things like this way before hand.  It's setting yourself up for disagreements.  You know she's isn't going to agree or give you permission.  So stop asking.

The way this stuff rolled out with my ex... . if I'd had  let him I would have had to ask to go the store.  I stopped talking about non discussion worthy topics.  Simple personal enjoy activities, personal growth, life essential activities etc.  It made life easier for awhile.  I made decisions by myself. 

When you give someone control over aspects of your life they may take it and run amok with it.  Be selective.

what's are you hoping to get from her when you talk about your plans or hopes?

Tell her what you have planned  in a reasonable amount of time.  :)on't tell her hypothesize plans or maybes ... . if she has BPD they don't do well with that kind of stuff and it gets them going.

[Cipher13]

I've got myself in the mind set that I need to tell her stuff almost to the extreme. But like i've been told before even if I tell her how many times I chew my food its not ever going to fix anything and she will just expecte even more.  Now the idea of moveing out of state is back up becasue she is not going to pass the exam she has been studying for the last 6 weeks on. I'm so sick i could literally throw up.

[maxsterling]

+1 to what wrongturn said about changing your plans not making her trust you.  It reminds me of what I have been working on with my T - turning things back around on her.  That means if she is upset or anxious about me going someplace or not doing something or whatever, ask her directly what I can do to make her feel better.  And if what she asks is unreasonable, tell her that is unreasonable.

I see our couples T do this with her.  The T will ask her, "if he did xyz, would your anxiety go away?"  And she ALWAYS answers "no".  So, I am trying the same.  The other weekend she was stressed over something and projected that to me saying that I was not saying anything to give her hope or solve her issue.  I asked directly, "is there anything I could say or do right now that would solve your problem?"  Her response - "no".  And after that, she owned it, and changed the subject!

So, maybe like this:

"I received a permit to go hunting for spring turkey.  I am planning on going on xyz days."

Obviously she is going to get anxious about you leaving, and you can't stop that or appease that.  And if she gets worked up and wants you to stay home, tell her that is unreasonable, and tell her what you can do that is reasonable - such as adjusting the days of your trip.  More than likely if you put it on her to tell you what you can reasonably do to soothe her anxiety, she will have no solutions, and drop the subject. 

[allibaba]

She doesn't have any idea how she makes me feel. The few times I have addressed how I am feeling after she has asked me. I am told I am selfish and mean and cruel and you name it.  I had a horrible weekend in terms of this. I caused some of it by not standing up for myself becasue I was afraid of the conflict that would follow. I tried a little tid bit but she quickly saw that as being mean also.   

If I learned anything it is that I can not have any sort of feeling that is separate form hers. My hobby I was hoping to start. She says not worth the $ I won't spend time with it. She is right she won't let me have time to myself. I am selfish and cruel and don't wan tto be with her anymore if I want to do soemthign without her.

I hate that I ever got married. :'(

Cipher, I popped onto this board to see how you are doing... . I am so, so, so sorry that things are not better since my last visit.

I reiterate what GreenMango says:

Cipher why even tell her things like this way before hand.  It's setting yourself up for disagreements.  You know she's isn't going to agree or give you permission.  So stop asking.

The way this stuff rolled out with my ex... . if I'd had  let him I would have had to ask to go the store.  I stopped talking about non discussion worthy topics.  Simple personal enjoy activities, personal growth, life essential activities etc.  It made life easier for awhile.  I made decisions by myself. 

When you give someone control over aspects of your life they may take it and run amok with it.  Be selective.

what's are you hoping to get from her when you talk about your plans or hopes?

Tell her what you have planned  in a reasonable amount of time.  Don't tell her hypothesize plans or maybes ... . if she has BPD they don't do well with that kind of stuff and it gets them going.

I also stopped asking for permission.  Even if my husband gave it to me in the 'near' term... . I knew that he would use it against me in the long-term (ie the first time that we disagreed on something).  The process of learning to be independent and say NO was the hardest (started about a year ago and culminated in me kicking my husband out in December).  I love my husband dearly... . but I have never been happier.  That being said, I would have been just as happy for him to get the help he needed... . but he did not chose that path so that is not the path that we are on!

[allibaba]

A small victory for myself with the guitar. I don't offically have it yet its just on hold. But thats further than I was last week with this. Now the kicker happens last night. I applied for a application to hunt spring turkey. She told me she wasn't comfortabel with me doign that and couldn't trust me. I guess she figures I will go to some strange womans place instead and cheat. Nevermind that I get up at the same time I would for hunting as I do for work and everything. She had a fit int he fall when I went. I wasn't staying overnight anywhere I was home at the the end of the day.I even sen picture from the woods.  Not happy about this.

Time to go turkey hunting my friend  

[Cipher13]

Thank you everyone for some really good positive support. This was going to be a topic also at out next T session. As it was breifly discussed at the end of the last but htere wasn't enough time to finish it. Max some very good points I will take to heart. I think also the T was getting that with her also. Saying you feel like x because he wants to do y would it matter if he dis z instead that would be shorter or at a different time or any number of situations that she would have more visibility on.

I guess I dread the fallout from the arguing and hate the name calling. No matter how many years of it you don't get used to it just a little numb.

[GreenMango]

Maybe looking into your fears and assessing if they are as bad as they seem could help get past them.

What are really afraid of with her getting upset?

[allibaba]

Maybe looking into your fears and assessing if they are as bad as they seem could help get past them.

What are really afraid of with her getting upset?

I like this.  I went through this process with my husband.  At some point... . I didn't think that things could get any worse... . and I had to face my greatest fears... . would he divorce me?  Would he try to hurt me?  Would he try to kick me out of my home?  I got good information on what my rights were in case any of these things happened... . and took a deep breath and started looking fear in the face.

I am not going to lie... . it was SCARY!  All the doubts... . All the insecurities.  But I started small and I learned to face them... . and it felt like I was coming out of a fog.

It was a good process.  I hoped that I would get my husband back (the non-crazy guy I knew 10 yrs ago)... . but I at least found myself 

[Cipher13]

I was able to get out and purchase the guitar. Had a good weekend. Lets see how it plays out. She told me I had better play everyday now. Lets see if that holds true. 

[Waddams]

She told me I had better play everyday now.

Sounds like time for lessons.  After work, everyday.  After all, if she wants you to play everyday, you need to get good at it so you can make her happy with beeee-youuuu-tiiiii-fulllllll music! 

Oh wait, I need to stop instigating.  Sorry, just in a weird mood right now. 

[Wrongturn1]

Way to go, Cipher - congrats on getting that guitar!

Keep practicing, and maybe we'll unknowingly play together at a blues jam/open mic somewhere one of these days. 

You just made a big step in the right direction; enjoy!

[maxsterling]

Cipher - I'm WAAAY proud of you!  I hope she comes to accept this and encourage you!

[Surnia]

Great news, Cipher. 

Makes me smile, I see you sit there and play 

[Cipher13]

She wants to get one to. I taught her a couple things last night. I want to contiue to play yet a small part of me feels its still not my time. Maybe I am over looking at it. Do need to shake it up if its not really a problem. I am just concerned that this to becomes soemthign we do together only. But I will remain as happy as I can learnign how to play my new guitar. 

[Surnia]

I am very familiar with your description:

I want to contiue to play yet a small part of me feels its still not my time.

Recently I practiced "just do it". Its much better know. All the hesitations, asking myself - its so exhausting. I would recommend: Just do it! 

[Cipher13]

... . And we are back to teh crap feeling again. I had a meeting to go over quartely update. They usually go about 30 mins. I forgpt about it as it wasn't on my computer's calender. So I left my desk and walked down with all the other employees. Its took an hour so i get back to my desk and there are 2 missed calls and 2 text messages and 2 emails sayifn where the f are you.  I call her thinking maybe somehtign is up.  The office area is an open office with several cubicals so you can hear others converstions if they are loud or laughing. She hears co-workers laughing several feet away across the room over my phone and because they were female she it the roof. How come I here chicks. I explained its an open office and they are on the other side of the room I can't control other peoples voices for them. She says I thought i said you couldn't talk to anypne at work. I said I wasn't talking to them they are across ther room talking to other poeple. Several exlative later and soem even more explative texts I am now awaiting for a nightmare evening when she gets home.  Oh the fun that is my life.  :'(

[maxsterling]

So - was there a reason she called?

The infidelity accusations are one thing I haven't had to deal with.  She will make claims that other women are flirting with me or have crushes on me, but she never accuses me of participating. 

But back to your issue -  I think sometimes pwBPD have feelings of doom and search or manufacture issues to agree with their feelings.  So, something like you getting a guitar creates an abandonment emotion in her.  You've gone off and done something without her, and that must mean something.  So now, she may be calling you at work, just snooping or "inventing" so that she has some proof that you are pulling away and about to divorce her.  And there's nothing you can do about this.  You can never, ever satisfy all her fears.  If it isn't one thing, it's the other.  Your job is to do what you want to do.  You know right from wrong, and what is healthy and unhealthy.  Remind yourself of that when she is raging.  Validate that she is upset, listen, empathize with her concerns, then state the truth.  The rest is up to her.

[Cipher13]

She called becasue "she hadn't heard from me in an hour and a half". I should have never called her. A text or email at the least. I explained the truth which doesn't fit the doom and gloom out look she has so begins to tell me that doesn't matter. She can't see it so I had to of been messing around with chicks. The thing with that is not only is that not in my charactor but I am a shy non-outgoing person that is more afraid of speaking to a strange person than anything else. But its not about logic. When feeling sover rule reality nothing ends up right