I'm a walking oxymoron

[Cardinals in Flight]

Its hard, I've never really cut anyone "out of my life".  I guess I feel like a failure. That old not good enough thing? I'm not sure

Yep.  Impossible to remove such a deeply seated bond from our psyches and not leave a tremendous empty hole behind. The question then becomes what do we refill the hole with?  What do you choose to fill it with?  And yes, it's VERY hard.

I feel for you CIF but I also know it gets better.  Horse shows (junior hunters!) was something I shared with my ex so I've made sure to transfer some of that love back to my dog.  He's a sweet boy and deserves it!  Be sweet to yourself sometimes through this bullsh!t and realize (like I'm sure you do) that there's no way to get through it without experiencing pain... . but the pain passes.  Can't wait to get there myself  .

American Saddlebreds, the "wild ones" .  I feel good today, going out with new friends and weekend plans in place.  Was supposed to do an event (planned during the brief communication) with my X friend, I know I will think of her and what her outcome, or time turned out to be.

I miss her, it's the time of year when we did lots of activities together, every weekend in fact, but I was "just a friend"... .

It hurts badly, in fact, I can point to pain during the very early stages of the faux rs.

I'm ready to live without pain.

Thank you for your reply

CiF

[Sunny Side]

Enjoy your weekend, CIF.  We've had sunny weather the past few days here so I'm going to get the dog out and take the bike to the beach and down the coast.  Run that cardio up and get some of the bad "exhaust" out -- my body needs a cleansing!  I've also got the NBA (pro basketball) playoffs coming up so it will be a good, healthy diversion going into June.  Jumping up and down, yelling and cursing at the TV seems to bring back good juju. 

I really do empathize what you're going through as I'm going through the same thing and trying to fill the empty hole back up with new awareness and better things, minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day.  Yes I do miss her (it?) but screw them, right? 

ps  American Saddlebreds... . how exciting! I used to head over and watch the jumpers.  Always got a kick off of watching the riders hold on for dear life as they fly hells bells around the course .

[Cardinals in Flight]

Sunny, thank you.  Really struggling w detachment and NC.  Trying to center myself and keep on going forward...

:'( :'(

[seeking balance]

Really struggling w detachment and NC.  Trying to center myself and keep on going forward...

What is it that in your head you think contact is going to soothe in you?

[Cardinals in Flight]

I posted on leaving, it was likely a premonition.  I knew (prior to mail) that contact wouldn't change anything or else it coulda made me feel worse.  But? I got my closure!  In this moment it feels fantastic.  I'm proud of the way I handled myself, I felt strong, I felt done!  If all of my grieving this week was to bring me there this evening and to be able to interact the way I did, I am thankful for it. 

CiF

[babyducks]

Hi Cardinals in Flight,

This has been a great thread for me and I am happy you posted.   Thanks.

What I have found to be true for me is that in times of great stress I crave my EX more.  That's when I really fight the no contact and detachment.   This last year has been quite challenging for me with lots of life stress going on.   I recently had a very bad bout of pneumonia, and while I survived it, in a moment of exhaustion and weakness I reached out for my EX.   And got the expected results.   It was confusing and upsetting for her and she reacted in a mildly negative way (mildly for her).

What I have also found to be true for me is that when I feel stuck, when I feel stuck in the vacuum what I am struggling with has nothing to do with my EX.   It means I am wrestling with one of my own childhood issues and that expression is coming out through my feelings for her.  

I suspect that like me the instinct to "get it right" and "not be a failure" was implanted in you as a very small child. There is always a childhood template for attraction to a borderline disordered individual.

I too get my feelings of worth by giving, and thinking if I give to some one I will get something in return.   Life doesn't always work that way and a r/s with a pwBPD almost never works that way.  I am also a caretaker, from childhood.   Not because of any mental illness, but because life happen to work out that the two most significant people in my life suffered from chronic illness.   The traits that I learned with them, and served me well in those relationship, nearly killed me with my pwBPD.

I was recently "stuck"  in my healing and growth and what helped me a great deal was a book by Margalis Fjelstad titled "Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist: How to End the Drama and Get On with Life".   The very first chapter was worth the price of the book.   I would recommend it highly.

Now I think I am going to pop over to leaving and see what you posted there.


'ducks

[Cardinals in Flight]

I'm going to order the book Ducks! Thanks.

I ran away from my feelings over the weekend and crashed yesterday.  Hate Mondays anyway, but that sucked and I will not get into that pattern.  Joined an energy group of other lesbians hopefully for some social motivation as well as physical health.

I'm going to move on, I'll make mistakes, get stuck from time to time and true to me I'll have emotional breakdowns, I just pray they're not in public.

Making my own happiness, decorating my own soul, doing the things I love even if they illicit fond hard memories.  She chose ME because of who I was, I'm not changing who I am in order to get over being with her, or to run away from the sadness.

CiF

[fromheeltoheal]

Here's a couple of the many profound passages from that book, VERY helpful to me.  Thanks Ducks!

People who become Caretakers for a BP/ NP also seem to have a certain set of personality traits. These traits do not constitute a “personality disorder .” In fact, they can be highly valued and useful to relationships and families, at work, and socially, especially when they are at moderate levels. They include a desire to do a good job, enjoyment in pleasing others, a desire to care for others, peacemaking, a gentle and mild temperament, and calm and reasonable behaviors. These traits can be the hallmark of someone who is easy to get along with, caring of others, and a good worker, spouse, and parent. But when you use these behaviors as a means of counteracting the extreme behaviors of the BP/ NP, they can morph into more toxic forms and become perfectionism, a need to please, overcompliance, extreme guilt, anxiety, overconcern, avoidance of conflict, fear of anger, low self-esteem, and passivity. At that point, these traits become detrimental to the mental, emotional, and physical health of the person and become Caretaker behaviors.

People who are emotionally healthy usually exit a relationship when this push/ pull pattern becomes more and more evident. They do not have much need or tolerance for this level of romantic or emotional instability. That is why BP/ NPs often have a pattern of many short-term relationships. But when BP/ NPs finds a Caretaker, he or she has found someone to dance to the relationship tune, someone who is adaptable and willing to be intimate and close one minute and who will also feel guilty and responsible enough to hang around when the BP/ NP pushes him or her away. Caretakers find that it is extremely difficult to abandon a BP/ NP. The Caretaker feels almost a calling to rescue someone who is emotionally hurting. It seems like the right and loving thing to do, but then you can’t see any way to leave without devastating the BP/ NP. As a Caretaker for a BP/ NP, this dance of “intimate hostility” doesn’t seem unfamiliar or bizarre to you. Your need to care for, save, protect, and take responsibility for the BP/ NP pulls you deeper into the relationship.

[Stjarna]

Thank you, fromheeltoheal, for posting that.  I ordered the book the other day when you mentioned it, and I can't wait to start reading it.  Those two paragraphs are very powerful and help me see the dynamic very clearly.  I AM a peacemaker with a gentle and mild temperament with calm and reasonable behaviors.  That is how many of my friends and family members would describe me.  That helps so much, just to hear that... . that yes, these qualities of my personality did morph into something toxic, but no, I'm not a disordered person at my core. It helps me feel like I can start to build some trust in myself.  Thank you so much for recommending the book. 

[fromheeltoheal]

"Thank you so much for recommending the book."  Credit where credit is due, I learned about the book from babyducks' post above; shared wisdom as we all heal together.

[Stjarna]

Oops, I goofed.  Yes, thank you babyducks!

[Cardinals in Flight]

Here's a couple of the many profound passages from that book, VERY helpful to me.  Thanks Ducks!

People who become Caretakers for a BP/ NP also seem to have a certain set of personality traits. These traits do not constitute a “personality disorder .” In fact, they can be highly valued and useful to relationships and families, at work, and socially, especially when they are at moderate levels. They include a desire to do a good job, enjoyment in pleasing others, a desire to care for others, peacemaking, a gentle and mild temperament, and calm and reasonable behaviors. These traits can be the hallmark of someone who is easy to get along with, caring of others, and a good worker, spouse, and parent. But when you use these behaviors as a means of counteracting the extreme behaviors of the BP/ NP, they can morph into more toxic forms and become perfectionism, a need to please, overcompliance, extreme guilt, anxiety, overconcern, avoidance of conflict, fear of anger, low self-esteem, and passivity. At that point, these traits become detrimental to the mental, emotional, and physical health of the person and become Caretaker behaviors.

People who are emotionally healthy usually exit a relationship when this push/ pull pattern becomes more and more evident. They do not have much need or tolerance for this level of romantic or emotional instability. That is why BP/ NPs often have a pattern of many short-term relationships. But when BP/ NPs finds a Caretaker, he or she has found someone to dance to the relationship tune, someone who is adaptable and willing to be intimate and close one minute and who will also feel guilty and responsible enough to hang around when the BP/ NP pushes him or her away. Caretakers find that it is extremely difficult to abandon a BP/ NP. The Caretaker feels almost a calling to rescue someone who is emotionally hurting. It seems like the right and loving thing to do, but then you can’t see any way to leave without devastating the BP/ NP. As a Caretaker for a BP/ NP, this dance of “intimate hostility” doesn’t seem unfamiliar or bizarre to you. Your need to care for, save, protect, and take responsibility for the BP/ NP pulls you deeper into the relationship.

SHAM WOW  .   I mean can it BE anymore enlightening than that?  I think one of my stcky wickets in this entire saga is the "I'm abandoning her when I promised I would not".  I take promises very very seriously. I know the pain of being left, over and over again, what kind of person does it make me to inflict that kind of pain, knowingly so?

CiF

[fromheeltoheal]

SHAM WOW  .   I mean can it BE anymore enlightening than that?  I think one of my stcky wickets in this entire saga is the "I'm abandoning her when I promised I would not".  I take promises very very seriously. I know the pain of being left, over and over again, what kind of person does it make me to inflict that kind of pain, knowingly so?

CiF

Did you say never?  I agree it's not OK to leave someone over and over, hallmarks of folks who thrive on drama and chaos, but leaving once is OK.  I never told her I wouldn't hurt her and she agreed with me, we agreed no one can or should make those kinds of promises, and she'd been left by others so often she wouldn't have believed it anyway, but there's always that fear a borderline has of that abandonment and the corresponding drive to prevent it, and vigilance for signs it's happening, exhausting.  Chill out sweetheart, everything's cool.  Ha!

[babyducks]

Hi All,

I have totally fallen in love with Fjelstad's book.   I have been highlighting so much the dang book is just about all yellow.   

I think she writes beautifully and she has certainly nailed the characteristics that I exhibit in a way that doesn't raise my hackles.   I love her explanations.

From the book:

What is common to all Caretakers, however, is a high level of needing to care for others, a willingness to let go of any and all of your own needs, an amazing adaptability, great skill in soothing and calming other people, a lot of internal guilt, high levels of responsibility, and a great dislike of conflict.

Caretakers have a propensity to be responsible for everything.  You may have filled the role of peacemaker, soother, or go between in your family.  Being able to create a calm feeling in an explosive, dysfunctional family, to defuse intense conflicts; or to have compassion for the BP/NP's pain may be ways that you feel a sense of contribution and value.

I have come to believe that learning about my role (will no value judgments placed on my role) has helped me defuse some of the incredibly intense emotions I still have about this relationship.

And has made me much less reactive to my EX as we continue low contact.

Its been a big breakthrough moment for me.

'ducks

[Cardinals in Flight]

Those explanations describe me to a T.  My X always told me I calmed her, made her feel comfortable, shrug... . until I didn't.

Holiday coming, I can't help but wonder where she will be, (no family, one close friend). It's not my problem of course, but I love her, disordered and all.  I do holidays in a big way, she used to like that she was included, but then she would go quiet for a while.  I came to expect it and accept it.

I miss her very much, and it makes me sad that she is so ill.

CiF

[Cardinals in Flight]

I'm glad for Monday.  The holiday was nice but I missed her.  I did not reach and for that I'm ... . pleased? Proud of myself?  What? 

It felt awful, it does this morning.  I did exactly what she in her mind predicted I would, right? I am the abandoner... . I feel really ___ty about that.

CiF

[fromheeltoheal]

I used to think putting our own needs first, taking care of ourselves, was selfish.  Then a wise person told me we have to be selfish first, meaning take care of self first, or we have nothing to give.  If we end up in an unsupportive situation, we have a responsibility to ourselves, and to other people we do or may support, to put ourselves first, so we have something to give.  We need to fill ourselves up so we can give it away, and the right people won't allow us to deplete ourselves in the process of giving.

[Cardinals in Flight]

If self protection is taking care of myself, then I guess I'm doing ok, but I won't lie, the feeling of abandoning and giving back the very things that hurt me so deeply (dead silence), it's foreign to me, and it's difficult.

I'm gritting my teeth, moving forward because I do know that the things I did before did not work!

Thank you for replying Fhth

CiF

[fromheeltoheal]

I went through stages on this issue; maybe my experience will help.  I left her because I was royally pissed off, she crossed way too many lines way too far, and I was 100% done and outta there; that lasted for maybe a month, along with a huge sense of relief.  Then I learned about BPD and realized that disappearing without a trace was abandonment to her, and I'd hurt her the very deepest way possible to someone with that disorder; I had mixed feelings about that, on the one hand the b___ had it coming, on the other the last thing I wanted to do was hurt that beautiful girl buried under all that crap.  Those mixed feelings lasted a few months.  Then I came to accept that my needs would never be met in that relationship, she wasn't capable, no fault of her own, but incapable nonetheless.  So the focus shifted to me, as it should, I had to put the caretaker/rescuer away where she was concerned because it would literally kill me, and decided to take care of me because I am the only one capable or willing.  That's not selfish, it's reality.

It was foreign to me to put my needs ahead of someone else's as well, but healthy I've learned, and it didn't take long to be honest with myself that I was motivated to take care of me, not hurt her, except for that brief period right after I left.  Take care of you!

[Cardinals in Flight]

I went through stages on this issue; maybe my experience will help.  I left her because I was royally pissed off, she crossed way too many lines way too far, and I was 100% done and outta there; that lasted for maybe a month, along with a huge sense of relief.  Then I learned about BPD and realized that disappearing without a trace was abandonment to her, and I'd hurt her the very deepest way possible to someone with that disorder; I had mixed feelings about that, on the one hand the b___ had it coming, on the other the last thing I wanted to do was hurt that beautiful girl buried under all that crap.  Those mixed feelings lasted a few months.  Then I came to accept that my needs would never be met in that relationship, she wasn't capable, no fault of her own, but incapable nonetheless.  So the focus shifted to me, as it should, I had to put the caretaker/rescuer away where she was concerned because it would literally kill me, and decided to take care of me because I am the only one capable or willing.  That's not selfish, it's reality.

It was foreign to me to put my needs ahead of someone else's as well, but healthy I've learned, and it didn't take long to be honest with myself that I was motivated to take care of me, not hurt her, except for that brief period right after I left.  Take care of you!

Good stuff, thank you!  I am a caretaker in my profession, it's as natural as breathing to me,  I also know that's the vibe I give off so I was ripe for the pickin . I do know that she is incapable of any type of reciprocal rs be it romantic or platonic.  My needs were never on her radar after the first few months.  I loved being important to her, loved caring for her until one day I just said "whoa", this is just too lop sided.

The only rescue I'm working on now is in the animal world, I can and do make a difference to them .

I know I'm making progress, and I also am learning to just sit with my feelings and not be impulsive, that alone is big for me! 

Here's hoping for less intensity tomorrow.

CiF

[Cardinals in Flight]

I am struggling today, after feeling really good, going on, just doing my own stuff, and BAM, I an emotional wreck and don't know why... .

I'm sitting with it, reading back over my thread and seeing if there's a pattern, weekends are very hard, honestly they're empty feeling even though I'm doing the "busy" thing.  I miss my buddy and it hurts a whole whole lot.

Sigh... .

[seeking balance]

I am struggling today, after feeling really good, going on, just doing my own stuff, and BAM, I an emotional wreck and don't know why... .

I'm sitting with it, reading back over my thread and seeing if there's a pattern, weekends are very hard, honestly they're empty feeling even though I'm doing the "busy" thing.  I miss my buddy and it hurts a whole whole lot.

Sigh... .

Pick something new/different that you always wanted to do and try it next weekend.  For things/patterns to change - you will have to get out of your comfort zone and change too... . I know it is scary, but really, it will be ok. 

[Allmessedup]

  cif!

i had so so many of those days too... . and they are awful.  but sb is right... try something new, change the pattern... . it does help!

remember that it will pass, you will  have good days too... enjoy them, you only just have to get thru the bad ones.


amu

[babyducks]

Cardinals,

I believe what we understand we can change.  Some times that understanding develops slowly.  Like grass growing in the spring.

I like what Seeking Balance said.  I need to push myself sometimes.   

Lately what I have been focusing on is how amoeba like I allowed myself to become with my EX.  Indeed that's what attracted me to the relationship in the first place.   There was something so very very attractive to me about not having personal boundaries and becoming enmeshed.  Regrettably I chose some one with a mental illness to become enmeshed with.

Now I miss my other half.  Or so it feels.  I feel like I have a hole where she was.   I need to fill that hole.  And I need to fill it with me.   

I don't know if that makes any sense or not but standing up for me and saying I will, I need, I want, I won't, I am has started to fill the hole.   I have been using some positive affirmations and todays is:

I release.  I relax.  I let go.  I am supported by life.  I trust the process of life.

'ducks

[Cardinals in Flight]

Thanks y'all


I do have a hole, in my chest  :'(. Worse today

[seeking balance]

Thanks y'all


I do have a hole, in my chest  :'(. Worse today

It will pass.  It always does.  Refocus.

Looking at the detaching board (which is really where this topic should be) - creative action... . doing something to move on with your life.

CIF - What new thing can you do?  Meetup hike?  Painting class?  Seriously, what are you going to do/change about you?

[Cardinals in Flight]

I did find a new hiking place, one I've never been  to before, no memories attached.  Bought a couple pieces of equipment yesterday, seems like something I'd enjoy.  I'm more down today than I've been for months, almost feels like first day after last November. I can't figure it out.

[seeking balance]

I can't figure it out.

so don't figure it out - accept it and move on with your life.

Tell us about the new hiking place - when are you going?

[Cardinals in Flight]

I went with the girl scouts . It's a nice park, very hilly with several groomed hiking trails.  It's beautiful with stunning city views at a few overlooks.  Mountainous where I live

Short drive, not my usual route etc, something new.

[seeking balance]

I went with the girl scouts . It's a nice park, very hilly with several groomed hiking trails.  It's beautiful with stunning city views at a few overlooks.  Mountainous where I live

Short drive, not my usual route etc, something new.

cool  - when are you going again?  Any new trails to look forward to?