My wife is completely dysregulated

[hurthusband]

My wife is completely spinning out.  She is talking about how financially we are going nowhere, how it is my fault she got the degree she did which she cannot get a job now.  She is talking about how I do not stand up for her, how I do not love her.

I do not know what to do.

I do not know if I should set examples of how I do care.  How it was not in my best interest to fly her back from Europe on a $2500 flight because she had a fight with her parents who we are eating Easter with while she refuses to eat Easter with my mother for not saying thank you the same day for a gift, which was rude

She says I should tell my mother she was rude who I work for.  to me I think its better just to chalk it up to rudeness and just not interact with her much.  Which is what we do

Should I tell my wife that she should have made the choices and looked at degree path ahead of time.  That I cannot tell her what to do with her life.

That 5 years ago when she chose this career path we were spending one third what we are today on expenses which are primarily ones she chose to make.  My income had doubled.  She says I have no future, but I have a job and I am in the 95th percentile of incomes...  

I do not know what to do. I want to be fair and stand up for her.  I have sacrificed so much for her but she does not see it.  She does not feel it.  Is it possible to point out anything while she is dysregulated?  or will it just be exacerbating things?

I think she is about to leave me at any moment...   I am ruined, but she does not see it.  She sees it as herself ruined only.  Not as us

[Olinda]

You asked: Is it possible to point out anything while she is dysregulated?  or will it just be exacerbating things?


I am not an expert on BPD but from what I have been reading on here, this would be a 'stop the bleeding' situation, and no real conversation will happen while she is in this state of mind.  There is no logic or rationale that will reach her. 

Couldn't read your plea for support and not offer you some. 

[gary seven]

HH:

Consider setting a small boundary for yourself.  Pick something to do for yourself .  Something small. 

I started taking walks at night by myself, in the neighborhood.  I had a flashlight, my cell, and house keys.  I did not invite her.  Also, someone had to be home for the kids.  I see as I get all wrapped up in trying to reason with her during one of her dysregulation cycles, all you get is agida.

[letmeout]

In my experience it is not advisable to point out anything while a BPD is dysregulated; they can turn on you like a mad dog. What they want is for you to validate every single word they say, no matter how delusional their crazy talk is. 

Sad situation when you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Self care is very important right now so take good care of you!

[Surnia]

Hi hurthusband

I am with others here, you cannot reach her when she is completely dysregulated.

Very good plan about picking a small routine for yourself.

As for the financial problems: Thats her take on it and it will be never enough, no matter what you are going to do.

[hurthusband]

I think the overriding problem is

a. she has no purpose in life.  She is very ambitious.  She just graduated college with an art degree and is looking around noticing that its hard as hit to get a job with it.  Especially if you do not work well with others which goes for any job.  She has a cleaning business, but her body is wearing down from it and it is not mentally satisfying.  I remember when I graduated college and something happened that destroyed what I thought I had planned for 10 years.  Took me a year to find a new purpose and was scary.  For somebody at 33 with BPD, I can only imagine.  Especially when she sees me working as much as I do, and debt piling up regardless with two teenagers. 

b. she is completely isolated. Her family are a bunch of BPDs and more.  I mean her mom and sister are BPD, her grandmother is BPD, her 2nd cousin murdered her two children when she found out her husband cheated on her with a 14 year old high school student of his.  Mental illness is rampant.  They invade and cause problems for us and show no love, no hugging, no concern for her at all.  My parents are more overbearing.  They want to help anyway and offer advice, and hug, etc.  She does not get that because she did not have that.  She has one friend who has her own issues.  So she has no identity for herself or life for herself.  Nobody to talk to.  Stuck in a house she started to remodel then went waaaaaaay overboard and now we financially stuck with the spot its at.

It all triggered at her BFA show... her final exhibition about a year ago.  A month of hell proceeded unlike anything I had seen, and I had gone through suicide attempts, her drug addiction, her alcoholism, her cheating, her doing some pretty crazy things... this was the worst.  24/7 dysregulation.  At the end of the month, it seemed divorce was inevitable.  We didnt say it, but I was thinking it.  She finds out she is pregnant naturally.  We talked and went abortion route and the doctor who did it went bezerk through it and the whole thing traumatized her.  She feels inadequate now over it... things as a result of that escalated.  Physical abuse started in... talks of suicide pacts... all sorts of things.  She has no peace.  It almost seems to me to the point its not BPD but a demonic possession... the torment she feels is unbearable.  Obviously it is then taken out on me...

With no time that she is not dysregulated... I just do not know.  DBT actually making things worse too.  Helped for a bit, but now the therapy is making her think different things that are my fault or who knows...

There is no time for things for myself anymore.  work is 6 days a week to make ends meet, and that upsets her, but i do  not work and we cannot so that upsets her. 

I ultimately feel until she feels purpose nothing can change.  She asks me what to do... what she should do with her life.  She says I have no plan for us, and that I am not changing or moving up.  I do not know how much further I can move up... I am making 6 figures which isnt bad for a single person.  I cannot promise the future with any job.  I certainly cannot tell her what to do with her life.  I cannot tell somebody what will make them happy.  If it goes wrong, then its my fault!  She was an english major and wanted to do art against her parents wishes.  I encouraged her to do what she wants, but now with job prospects its my fault for encouraging her into it...

I just do not have the answers and I cannot fix this so when do you talk to them about the reality of things?  If they are always dysregulated, you just are silent but then nothing is accomplished

[Surnia]

I agree with a and b, hurthusband.

And I can see a c, this is more on your side. You are doing everything for the financial side. If she needs more, she has to find a way to participate. Period.

Sometimes actions speaks louder than words. Or only short words. No, we cannot afford this.

[hurthusband]

The weird part is her rationale of

"we cannot afford the life I want, and I do not like this so I am going to leave"

okay... so how does that help her any when she has no job, nor income?

It only puts her in a worse situation.  Nevermind that financially, I would be better off without her!

She never takes into consideration that I do care and that I am the one who is really burdened here.  She talks about how much she sacrifices and how hard life is now, never thinking that I am certainly giving up more because I care... . (or am mentally sick too)

[momtara]

You are constantly beating yourself up and thinking that money would fix things.  let's say you covered things with money, you gave yourselves a wonderful life.  Don't you think she would still complain, not want you to do things you enjoy, complain about her relatives, your relatives, etc?

Your reactions are to try to use logic to talk her out of her feelings.  We have all done it, but she has an illness and it's a losing battle.

Sometimes, the less you say, the less you regret, the less trouble you get into.  You're in a no win situation.  She has a therapist for her BPD.  SHE IS THE ONE who is sick.  Not you. 

[letmeout]

You know by now that you can not fix her. She is manipulating you into believing that you are responsible for her life. BPD/NPD people never take responsibility for their own behaviors.

This may sound wrong, but consider yourself lucky if she leaves you. It will cost you a pretty penny (divorce from an BPD is a nightmare to go through) but you simply can not put a price on your future peace and happiness.

Everyone has to draw the line somewhere when it comes to dealing with a loved one's mental illness 24/7.  My divorce cost me everything, but I would do it again to gain my freedom from dealing with that much insanity.

[Surnia]

The weird part is her rationale of

"we cannot afford the life I want, and I do not like this so I am going to leave"

My guess is that its not so rationale. She is unhappy with herself and with you and money is something to complain about. Should you have that money that she is missing it would be something else.

I am not sure how you are, Hurthusband, I am quite rational thinking and I was assuming that my h was similar in his thinking patterns. It took me quite a long time to realize that its perhaps different, that there is fear and projection in his words and that it leads to nowhere if I take all his talking with a rational mind.

One helpful resource for me: Ten forms of twisted thinking - Dr. David Burns

[formflier]

Did you have any kids to deal with in the divorce?

Mine threatens it all the time.  I think I am providing some stability to the family (kids).  Otherwise I would leave and not look back.

You know by now that you can not fix her. She is manipulating you into believing that you are responsible for her life. BPD/NPD people never take responsibility for their own behaviors.

This may sound wrong, but consider yourself lucky if she leaves you. It will cost you a pretty penny (divorce from an BPD is a nightmare to go through) but you simply can not put a price on your future peace and happiness.

Everyone has to draw the line somewhere when it comes to dealing with a loved one's mental illness 24/7.  My divorce cost me everything, but I would do it again to gain my freedom from dealing with that much insanity.

[letmeout]

Thank heavens our kids were grown up and gone when I finally saved myself.

If I knew then what I know now, I would have taken the kids and left when they were young. Unfortunately I was too co-dependent to realize what affect it would have on their adult lives from growing up with a parent who acted dysregulated so often.  What a mess.

[formflier]

I'm no expert on the "leaving" board or the laws in my state... . but I believe I know enough to know that my "taking" them is not an option. 

I don't believe there is enough ammo to prove her an unfit parent and I have seen other women in her family that divorce blacken every male around... . successfully... . to the point where the Dads effectively have no influence over kids... .

So while my current situation sucks... completely... . I see a separation as being worse... . by far... than what I have now.

Thank heavens our kids were grown up and gone when I finally saved myself.

If I knew then what I know now, I would have taken the kids and left when they were young. Unfortunately I was too co-dependent to realize what affect it would have on their adult lives from growing up with a parent who acted dysregulated so often.  What a mess.

[hurthusband]

I hear you on that and kids... I have two stepkids.  They are 14 and 12 now and I have been in their lives for 11 years.  I leave, I have no real right to see them... that hurts

My wife keeps asking me for direction in her life.  She says she cannot plan her life and her job/future because she does not know mine.  Mine is pretty much normal... I work in my current career and build it up.  I cannot say that I will have the same job for sure in 5 years or what I will be making in 5 years, but who can.

She has no clue what to do with her life.  She feels no purpose.  She just graduated with a degree in December in Fine Arts, but not sure what to do with it.  She is cleaning houses and obviously not feeling fulfilled.  She is 33, and wants to have a child with me, but at same time if she goes to graduate school and teaches college she will be near 40 and feels time will have run out for a child.  As far as job now, what does she do?  She does not feel she can work a normal 9 to 5 job so she just feels worthless and scared, and this dysregulates her severely.

I think we all have experienced the "what do we do with our lives".  I know when I graduated college, I was not sure what to do with degree, but I had a business degree so much more flexible.  After a year and working a job I did not like, I happened into my own business and has worked out I think well.  In the meantime it was horrible feeling that you had no purpose or place, but it was easier for me cause I was 23 and it was early on so I had plenty of career future, and time for a family.

She is 33, and just do not know what to do with her life and has a degree that is limiting. Nevermind the fact she has an illness that is REALLY limiting.  I just do not know what I can tell her.  I do not know that I can tell her what she needs to do with her life.  Can you tell anyone that?  If it goes wrong, I would think there is blaming over it... .

She is very ambitious, and wants alot out of life too.  She wants to feel important and needed... . At same time, not getting along with people well is a point and she hates monotony. 

I am just baffled.  I feel solving this problem though would help a ton with dysregulation.  It would also give routine to her day which has to be good.

[GaGrl]

Just in terms of the career direction, I would think that the college/university from which she just graduated would have a career counseling center.  That group will provide assessments and help students explore options.

Has she done an internship?  More and more, students (even those who have graduated) have done unpaid internships just to gain experience and explore career options.

[momtara]

"I leave, I have no real right to see them... that hurts."

Keep in mind that just because you don't have a legal right, doesn't mean it has to be that way or that a judge/social worker won't listen to reason.  Or that your wife won't want to give you some visitation with them if you give child support.  But I know, that still is painful.

I wonder when the last time was that you spent time with normal people who respect you and who you don't have to watch yourself with?  It might be eye opening.  You deserve a break today.

[hurthusband]

one thing not sure how to handle is how horrible i feel as I see her depressed just sleeping in bed.  I feel incredibly guilty/bad.  Helpless really.  I care so much and it hurts to see her like this.

I am sure some of that bad feeling is knowing that this sort of thing causes dysregulation and possible explosions, but I think we all want our SO to be happy.

Part of me is like, just be happy you are not *required* to do anything. At least you have the option of not being forced into anything...

As far as normal people, I do not know if those actually exist!  The people I work with and my clients are mainly car dealers and are demanding, and condescending.  My family is a bit whacky too.  They are all so wrapped up in their own crap right now.  They should be able to think of others despite having alot on their plate, but they do not.  They are not mean or anything, and they are not rude, but conversations invariably lead back to them and their their issues.

[momtara]

It's a shame to not have support.  People at work are just dealing with you on a work basis.  Your family sounds a bit self centered, and maybe they have to be sometimes.  I wish you had a friend in your community to talk to.  You seem like a really kind, patient person and there are so many people who'd want to help if they knew you - especially people in similar situations.  I remember when I was with my xHusband I would occasionally go to dinner with other moms.  They'd call their husbands and say, "Oh, I'll be 15 minutes late, can you pick up eggs?" Instead of being told they were selfish, or instead of having to beg to stay out 15 minutes later, it was just routine.  It was so different from my messed up situation. 

Something occurred to me.  Our spouses should be proud of us.  They should brag about us.  Not tear us down.

I know she's lying in bed and you feel bad.  She has a lot of potential and love but it is destroyed by an illness, and a cruel one that keeps her from realizing how wonderful you are.   I wish her will to get the right treatment could be stronger than the illness.  Is she on any antidepressants? 

I find myself angry again that there's no good treatment for BPD.  What a waste.

[hurthusband]

They have her on Wellbutrin...

It is hard... Last night she went to bed early before I got home and asked me to pick up food for kids and soup for her.  So I went and got her some soup, pasta salad, and a salad.  I went home... mixed salad, put pasta and salad in fridge, and put soup in the microwave to keep it warm until she came down.  I then fed the kids, went over their home work, dishes/chores, etc put them to bed... took some time to myself and went to bed. 

At 1 am of course I am woken and told about what is all wrong about us.  I get up this morning panicking.  I remember I did not put the soup into the fridge! she did not get up to eat it.  I go downstairs and really it should have been probably thrown away but I put it in the fridge.  I knew that if I threw it away she would be blow up really bad.  I go back upstairs and she asks me about teh food and if I handled kids last night etc.  She then asks if I got her a dessert... .

... i did not think of that.  I already know based on what she said the day before that its another example that I do not care nor think about her.  I explain I did get her a salad that she did not ask for though. ... she asks if I put the dressing on and I explain I did mix it all for her and had it prepared.  She then told me it was ruined cause it would have wilted... .

failure... failure.  completely failure.  things did turn out ok and she thanked me for caring this morning, but the fear... .

I do not know anymore.  I just do not know

[formflier]

 

I used to put up with the middle of the night wakeups... . and it really tore me down.  I regret doing that.  Even before I realized about BPD... . I understood from talking with friends the no sleep thing wasn't going to work.  It's been a while since there has been any sleep disturbance and months since there has been a pattern of sleep deprivation. 

My life has improved considerably.

Where I'm going is that I think if you established that boundary... . that if you get me up at night... . I don't speak to you... . that you will be ignored... . eventually you will feel much better about a lot of things.

Hang in there ! 

[momtara]

"failure... failure.  completely failure."

No it wasn't.  You did everything right.  Even she realizes that.  She has an illness.

Maybe her doc should know she doesn't get out of bed and that she needs more meds.  How would she take care of those kids alone?  She wouldn't.  Keep a journal.

[hurthusband]

Its one of those things... Keeping a journal, using examples of how I am good to her... wont make a difference...

She is dysregulated and incapable of rational thought.  I just have to let go and not try and defend myself

[formflier]

Its one of those things... Keeping a journal, using examples of how I am good to her... wont make a difference...

She is dysregulated and incapable of rational thought.  I just have to let go and not try and defend myself

The journal is as much for you... . as it is her.  That way you have a touchstone to remind yourself what really happened.

Hang in there!

[momtara]

The journal is for a few reasons.  It's for evidence in case she ever lies about you in court or to child services for some reason.  Like if you are in a divorce and you'd like a little visitation with the kids and she says you abused her or them. 

If you never need the journal, then you never need it.  But you may be glad you had it, rather than having to go back and try to reconstruct things that happened.

Also, it's good for you to have just for your sanity, so you can stop blaming yourself.  It's a good reminder of what really happened when our BPD spouses try to make us feel crazy.

[hurthusband]

I have a good memory and remember how things happen... I just have the ability of extreme self doubt in trusting that while I see the events for what they are, if my perception and understanding is whacko...


the journal for court is a good point

At same time it makes me think... why are we with people that we have to jump all these hoops and defend ourselves against?  We must be sick too to get into this mess

[gary seven]

  We must be sick too to get into this mess

HH:

We are NOT SICK.  Your are perfectly NORMAL.

My own personal emotional rollercoaster sort of parallels yours.  Right now I try to take time for my self no matter how severe the penalties are upon my return.  I schedule things and put them on my google calendar for her to read .

I know I cannot change her, I cannot change the way she thinks.

I know I must dig down deep inside ME to get me strong.  It's so very hard at times to think I'm not diseased.  Uh-un.

You have the ability: you are here on this forum, you can learn that you are not alone.  What stinks is that the process for most of us takes time---years---and it's all uphill.  Find something for yourself.

My kids and I rehabilitated an abandoned vegetable garden.  We are growing broccoli, texas sweet onions, cucumbers, peppers, arugula and peppers.  We go out side every day and talk to the plants and water them.  My back is killing me from amending the soil and hauling much and oh by the way did I mention the abandoned concrete bench we found... . all are now in the terraced, fenced garden with a kid-built patio along with some wind chimes.  Blood, sweat and tears, but they are proud and so am I.  It renews my strength in myself---not in her illness or its management (which is so in the dumps, but that's another post).

[momtara]

Keeping a journal and tape recording are standard legal advice to protect ourselves.  You could just keep a calendar and make notes on what happened that day.  i know it's an ugly idea and a time waster when you don't have much time as it is.  They're just thoughts.

[letmeout]

It's a good reminder of what really happened when our BPD spouses try to make us feel crazy.

This is a great idea! My counselor suggested keeping a log of events. Reading back on them kept me from being brainwashed into my BPD's distorted view of events.

[momtara]

It's also helpful because it reminds us just how bad things can get.  Sometimes I question why I divorced my exH.  I just remember the good times.  Then I read the twisted manipulation and remember it.  I'm NOT saying you're going to end up divorced or in that situationj at all, but I think, again, it will help you keep a clear head and realize you're not crazy.  And yes, it is good for court.  Even if you just do it once in a while it's better than never.