more levels of crazy

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

things have just escalated,

After 2 days of NC, she called me tonight to arrange how I will collect my stuff when we return to London next week. It started kind of dry and practical. When I told her I was returning immediately to Scotland it escalated. She started her vitriol about how much I have hurt her, how I have broken her spirit, she asked why I went into a relationship with her if I knew it was going to end... . then it went on to me being a sick f**k, ugly in all ways, a liar, a cheat, a dipstick... . I asked her why she was telling me this again and again (it's being going on for 3 weeks) and she said it was because I was all of those things and she wanted me to put my hands up and admit to this. I said I wouldn't and she said "well that just confirms everything for me" What the heck!

she then started to play games... . "I'll give you your stuff when I'm safe and ready, you cannot enter my flat etc... "I told her that, by law,  she had to give me my stuff and I could and would take it further. ... . that set her off in a rage, she said that if I come near her at the airport she will go hysterical and call the cops. I hung up and the texts started, more abuse about my sick world, threatening to out me to my whole family as being an abuser, calling me a pathological liar etc... . " Damn, she's gone mad and I fear it is going to get worse... .

It's a really frightening experience for me.

Do BPD's have psychotic episodes? To what extent are they prepared to go with these vengeful acts?

[Lion Fire]

things have just escalated,

After 2 days of NC, she called me tonight to arrange how I will collect my stuff when we return to London next week. It started kind of dry and practical. When I told her I was returning immediately to Scotland it escalated. She started her vitriol about how much I have hurt her, how I have broken her spirit, she asked why I went into a relationship with her if I knew it was going to end... . then it went on to me being a sick f**k, ugly in all ways, a liar, a cheat, a dipstick... . I asked her why she was telling me this again and again (it's being going on for 3 weeks) and she said it was because I was all of those things and she wanted me to put my hands up and admit to this. I said I wouldn't and she said "well that just confirms everything for me" What the heck!

she then started to play games... . "I'll give you your stuff when I'm safe and ready, you cannot enter my flat etc... "I told her that, by law,  she had to give me my stuff and I could and would take it further. ... . that set her off in a rage, she said that if I come near her at the airport she will go hysterical and call the cops. I hung up and the texts started, more abuse about my sick world, threatening to out me to my whole family as being an abuser, calling me a pathological liar etc... . " Damn, she's gone mad and I fear it is going to get worse... .

It's a really frightening experience for me.

Do BPD's have psychotic episodes? To what extent are they prepared to go with these vengeful acts?

[fromheeltoheal]

From one of the articles on this site: Rage reactions are also unpredictable and unexpected. They happen when you least expect it. And they can become extremely dangerous.

Sounds like she's triggered and in the hater stage of the cycles of the disorder.  Best you can do now is limit contact to only absolutely necessary, get law enforcement involved to get your stuff, and when you do talk to her, be boring and unemotional, and avoid texts, lots of real communication is lost in texts.  You need to be in pure survival mode and focusing on what's best for you, there is no trust and there will be no reason or logic.  It's important to keep your own sanity best you can and don't engage.  Take care of you!

[AwakenedOne]

I called the police to ask what my rights are. They said that I have the right to get my stuff from the apartment. I have two options 1. arrange for them to meet us there on my arrival and they will ensure a safe passage for me or 2. If hell breaks out while I am there, I can call them and they will come out to the apartment and let me get my stuff.

You might want to go with option 1 instead. Do you have to sit beside her on the flight home?  If so just smile and nod or take a nap.

[Lion Fire]

Just just sms'd me to ask me to change her flight to lunchtime that day. This will mean a considerable cost for me. She has also ordered me to bring her coat to her soonest at a place which is an hour train ride away. She is pushing it now and looking for ways to hold me to ransom with my stuff if I disagree with her demands. It may be that i have to involve the police at this rate. What a ___storm. All I want is my stuff and to get as far away from her as i possibly can. She knows this.

[fromheeltoheal]

I ended my relationship with my ex on vacation (holiday) too, and given time and reflection it became clear that the vacation itself stressed the relationship, we were both out of our comfort zones, and that turned out to be a good thing because there was plenty of dysfunction and unacceptable behavior, both ways if I'm honest, and it all just came to a head which ended the relationship sooner rather than later.  I hope you too see it as a blessing one day.

Breaking into her London flat early is sounding more attractive... .

[MrFox]

Do BPD's have psychotic episodes? To what extent are they prepared to go with these vengeful acts?

I don't honestly know what the clinical or legal definition of a psychotic episode is but by my definition, yes they do have them.  Also yes, they do seek revenge.  My ex went so far as attempting to convince my family that I was suicidal, physically dangerous to others, and possibly a sexual predator.

Guard yourself the best way you can.  If I were you I would keep any texts and emails from her that display "crazy" behavior.  If you have to interact in person with her I would do so in the presence of someone else (a witness).  I'm not sure what the laws are like in England, but in the States you can request a police officer accompany you to get your belongings back.  It seems like a lot to have to deal with, and it seems like everyone should just be able to be adults in your situation, but a little precaution now may save you a lot of headache in the future.  The most predictable thing about someone with BPD is that they can be very unpredictable.

This boards is filled with horror stories of what can happen.  I personally know a guy who has split custody with an ex that has BPD.  After his second trip to jail after she falsely accused him of violent behavior started using a small recorder that looks like a pen any time he has to interact with her.

[Lion Fire]

more high drama this morning.

She is demanding more money out of me. She's holding me hostage with my possessions in her flat and a threat to an extensive smear campaign. I have given her my final offer and asked her to confirm by mail that I will be allowed to collect my stuff at 11am on Friday. No response.

Part of me wants to call her bluff and write off my stuff and let her do what she has threatened to do.

The other part knows that my stuff is valuable and cost a fortune to replace and that she is capable of a smear campaign that will ruin my reputation both personally and professionally.

This situation is vile. I have never had such conflict with any human being in my entire life. It is so unimaginably twisted and sick. 

[fromheeltoheal]

It is so unimaginably twisted and sick.  Serious Mental Illness.

Does she live in a place that has a landlord or building manager who knows you and would let you in?

[Lion Fire]

No, it is a high rise complex with security access. no chance of getting in.

[bpdspell]

Lion of Fire,

Sorry you're in this sticky situation. I've worn your shoes when it comes to the "stuff" issue. Here's my question: Are you unequivocally done with her? Or are you using the "stuff" issue to continue to remain in contact with her? It helps to own up to your intentions before your proceed any further. When things escalate to this toxic boil it's best to fall back, recalibrate and get honest with what you want.

My BPD ex would leave things all the time at my apartment all the time to "keep the strings" going. Plenty of Non's do it too. When I finally had had enough I gave him the opportunity to get his cell phone charger. The one thing he "mysteriously" left behind. In a text he told me to "___ off." So I threw the charger in the trash. Sure enough two days later he's in my building, pounding away at my door yelling about wanting his charger back. When I told him I threw it in the trash he wen't berserk. He called me all kinds of vile names and even got physical when I tried to walk away. It was pretty scary to see this "unleashed" side of him. It was like watching a hurt animal.

I'm sharing this story because the engagement with them is not about the "stuff." It's about power, control, and their need to avoid being abandoned. More than likely your ex is holding on to your stuff because she wants to do everything within her power to keep the relationship from ending for good. Yes. Our ex's can get psychotic, neurotic, and downright vile and vicious if their abandonment feelings are triggered. I personally believe that the crazier they act the more they don't want you to leave but their mental illness causes them to react with their maladaptive coping mechanisms. They are children trapped in adult bodies.

So. Your things. If your'e really done and your things are really of value then call the authorities. Get your things and be done. But if your using your things to initiate a recycle or to talk things over it's simply will not give you the result you want: a healthy, not crazy girlfriend.

Spell

[Lion Fire]

Hi Spell,

I think you have it spot on. I just want my stuff and to leave her for good and she knows that.

I also believe that she can't believe that I would actually walk away and does not want the relationship to end.

I have been honest about this to myself and after reflection I have decided that I cannot write this off. There is equipment there that I need for work as well as the majority of my clothes and it would cost me a fortune to replace it. I did think of calling her bluff and just writing it off but I believe that would not be true to myself and I would again be capitulating to her force and threats.

I will have a witness with me and will record everything on my phone in case she pulls a stunt.

She has just sent me a text to tell me that her father has been rushed to hospital and she is completely wiped out with life now. He's a cool guy but I'm not sure she is telling the truth somehow. A stunt perhaps?

My nerves are shredded with this woman.

I just want freedom and some peace to heal myself

[fromheeltoheal]

I just want freedom and some peace to heal myself  Good goals.  Just put one foot in front of the other, do what you have to do, protect yourself.  Sounds like getting your stuff back will be the beginning of your freedom, and imagine how much relief you'll feel in a couple of weeks.  Take care of you!

[Lion Fire]

I guess whatever doubts I had about my decision have now been completely blown away.

I believe I deserve better from a relationship and don't have to settle for abuse, control and manipulation.

What astounds me is her level if denial and distortion of the truth :

This is a mail I got from her today. She is actually very smart, I'll give her that. I am not defending any more. I let her think and say what she wants and hope she'll just leave me alone. Funny thing is, I have numerous texts that contradict what she has stated here :-)


" I must say I am so saddened and in disbelief of the way the situation has played out. I am offended that you feel you have to bullet point your belongings. Of course you must take all that is yours I have never said otherwise only when you were behaving completely inappropriately and forcefully last week around the reality and practicality of the situation and having originally left me stranded here did I say I would not give you your things back until you were able to listen to me calmly about the whole thing. It's also very unsettling for me to have to say to you that id expose to everyone the truth about everything, for you to actually make the appropriate arrangements. In truth I'm shocked and battered by your behaviour, the goading and cunningness of it all and the personality you choose to present being so so so very different from the reality of who you are. I had fallen in love for a man who seemed to be truthful and honest in all his ways and that was so different from reality.  I wish you well an hope you get some therapy for your issues so that you can live a full life and find love with someone to share that life with. We all deserve that.

I'll see you on Friday. Please come peacefully"

[fromheeltoheal]

Whoa.  If yours is anything like mine in reality, that email is textbook projection, like she's talking about herself throughout, but making it you.  Your stance of staying emotionally distant is the right tack.

[Lion Fire]

aye, it was at first glance a skillful piece of writing. Maintaining the moral high ground and what appears to be reasonable... . After a closer look, I was able to see how delusional she really is and how . There is just so much missing to this story. I was told to just go along with her classifying me as insane and mentally ill as this would probably be the safest route out. Let her feel like she has been abused and is a victim and I take all the blame means she doesn't have to look at her own stuff. God willing, it stays like this and I get out of Dodge on Friday with all my stuff and away from her. That said, there will probably be more twists and turns. I am remaining dispassionate as the Buddhists call it :-)

[AwakenedOne]

aye, it was at first glance a skillful piece of writing. Maintaining the moral high ground and what appears to be reasonable... . After a closer look, I was able to see how delusional she really is and how . There is just so much missing to this story. I was told to just go along with her classifying me as insane and mentally ill as this would probably be the safest route out. Let her feel like she has been abused and is a victim and I take all the blame means she doesn't have to look at her own stuff. God willing, it stays like this and I get out of Dodge on Friday with all my stuff and away from her. That said, there will probably be more twists and turns. I am remaining dispassionate as the Buddhists call it :-)

Along with that to make it more believable you could make Hannibal Lecter slurping-type sounds. Say "hello Clarice" in a creepy way. Wearing a strait jacket may be a bit much though.

[DiamondSW]

Be careful.

I was in the same situation with possessions etc.  In the end I decided to post all of her things back to her and everything she had ever given me.  The lot.  I also dropped off a suitcase filled with every love letter, gift, blah blah at her reception.  Anything of mine, well, I left with her.  NC started 8mths ago after an email from me titled 'don't even think of replying... . I want to live'  ... .

thankfully she hasn't replied. 

It was 'worth' every penny to lose those items, just so that I didn't have to speak to her ever ever again.  All I got was the most frustrating rubbish that truly frazzled my mind and depressed me further. 

The most important thing you 'own' is your ability to function, move on, live your life and regroup... . yes, clothes can be expensive, but i'd rather get better quicker, earn money over that time and buy new, rather than get my old stuff back, face an emotional barrage, struggle at work... . and pull in far less money to a point of struggling.   

There's ways of dealing with triggered BPD exes -the best one is walk away and ignore.  Then YOU get the final say, and they may get the picture that life isn't about them anymore... .  

Watch out... .   (from a fellow Londoner)

[rougeetnoir]

Hey Lion-

First, I commend you-- the lesson you've learned (keep yourself dispassionate) is a hard one when faced with such deliberate falsehoods... . I went through the same thing with my move out and, while I'm still trying to process it, the truth is: they want to keep their hooks in you.  Any emotion, can be the point for them to try to use whatever other techniques they've used to keep you around.

Long story short: you are doing a good job.  Don't give up on your stuff.  If you need the police, get the police. Get your stuff. Move on. 

It'll take some time to process all of this, but right now focus on the task at hand: getting your stuff.  If your stuff is still there, she'll hang around longer consciously or unconsciously... .

[LongGoneEx]

This is a mail I got from her today.  [snip]

" I must say I am so saddened and in disbelief of the way the situation has played out. I am offended that you feel you have to bullet point your belongings. Of course you must take all that is yours I have never said otherwise only when you were behaving completely inappropriately and forcefully last week around the reality and practicality of the situation and having originally left me stranded here did I say I would not give you your things back until you were able to listen to me calmly about the whole thing. It's also very unsettling for me to have to say to you that id expose to everyone the truth about everything, for you to actually make the appropriate arrangements. In truth I'm shocked and battered by your behaviour, the goading and cunningness of it all and the personality you choose to present being so so so very different from the reality of who you are. I had fallen in love for a man who seemed to be truthful and honest in all his ways and that was so different from reality.  I wish you well an hope you get some therapy for your issues so that you can live a full life and find love with someone to share that life with. We all deserve that.

I'll see you on Friday. Please come peacefully"

Projection and professional victimology, BPD-style. Ignore it. Don't let it fluster you. She wants to keep you arguing with her so that she can continue to use you as an emotional garbage dump for her unpleasant feelings. Given the accusatory tone I'd agree with the others who say it's prudent to have a witness and/or police present to record things when you get your stuff. And go NC forever.

[Lion Fire]

yeah, I am single minded at the moment. She has been off my case for the evening which has helped a lot. One golden thing that I have learned with this is that she wants to keep me enmeshed and tangled up in her life and will do anything to keep that going... . it's not that she wants me as a partner or lover or even friend. She's looking for a supply of whatever she may need at that time- someone to dump on, abuse, exploit, drain etc... . I look back and realise that once I was painted black I left the exalted white world of the hero, the knight in shining armour, forever and entered the darkness of her illness where it was varying degrees of hate and abuse. The best I got after that was a few days when it was grey but never white. I believe I was holding on, longing for those intoxicating early days when I felt like a king and believed I had finally found my "soul mate". I know now it was just an illusion. What is sad is that darkness is the reality of being in a relationship with a BPD. 

[fromheeltoheal]

She's looking for a supply of whatever she may need at that time- someone to dump on, abuse, exploit, drain etc... . I look back and realise that once I was painted black I left the exalted white world of the hero, the knight in shining armour, forever and entered the darkness of her illness where it was varying degrees of hate and abuse. The best I got after that was a few days when it was grey but never white. I believe I was holding on, longing for those intoxicating early days when I felt like a king and believed I had finally found my "soul mate". I know now it was just an illusion. What is sad is that darkness is the reality of being in a relationship with a BPD. 

Yep, you pegged it man, same story all over again.  I've also accepted that the white part was the attachment being formed, and once it was, she could shift to using me for the needs of the moment, whatever that would be, and it was always all take and no give, except for those small bones she'd throw me once in a while to solidify the bond.

I believe I was holding on, longing for those intoxicating early days when I felt like a king and believed I had finally found my "soul mate". I know now it was just an illusion.  Me too, along with most others here.  Fertile field for growth moving forward; what needs did she seemingly meet at such a deep level that I was in denial of reality and deluded, and ignored that sick feelings in my gut, forging forward into the darkness anyway?  How do I make sure I never do that again?  What needs to be healed so it doesn't happen?

Maybe too early for such considerations for you Lion, just make it out and keep talking.  Take care of you!

[willy45]

How much is your stuff with and can you live without it? I bailed on my ex and just left the stuff. It was only stuff. Maybe a few grand worth of things. But, I was like, f#ck it. My mental health and safety was worth way more. Still pisses me off, mind you. But then I think about a bit and frame it like I PAID for her to go away. And then it becomes pretty funny. That's what a crazy b#tch she was. She was so bad that not only did I leave, I PAID her to do it.

[letmeout]

Be very careful when trying to retrieve your possessions.

My BPDex told me to come by at a certain time on a certain day, but then went into a ballistic rage because I brought a friend along to help. Ex was obviously very disturbed that I didn't come alone and refused to let me get my stuff.

I finally got only some of my stuff back after a judge ordered him to return it, whereas he threw it in a storage unit (a lot of it damaged in a rage) and I have maintained no contact ever since.