Just trying to get as much feedback as possible

[zenwexler]

So I already posted this in the undecided section and I'm curious as to what kind of feedback I'll get here. I also have added some stuff since I last posted this a lot has gone on. As always thank you so much for all of your feedback and support. If only I knew about this community long ago maybe we would still be together and happy.

Thanks again everyone.

Ok, So I won’t go into all of the basic details because at this point its all pretty generic. She has BPD. Untreated. We dated for roughly 8 months. We broke up last July. It has been a brutal breakup. At first I was relieved. To be finally free. I told her we couldn’t be friends. She said ok but I could tell she wasn’t really acknowledging it. She texted me a few days later and was like “uggghhhhh, I hate this, I want you in my life” So of course I crumbled and we maintained at texting relationship. I’m in Philly, she moved to New York for ballet. Once she got there everything changed. She always tried to present to me how amazing and happy she was. Which were all lies. She was miserable. She got injured and needed very serious surgery but completely kept that hidden from me.

We did this song and dance where I would say unless you want to get back together I don’t want to be friends. She would say ok, then casually text me a week later. I would ignore her then she would either call me names or come up with some crazy emergency, mind you these were “real” but she methodically saved them. The first month I tried to pull away she said she cut herself, I of course tried to help her and she was like “eh, it’s no big deal. I only did it once, by the way have you hooked up with anyone?” I was furious and blown away.  A couple days later said the same thing, cant’ be friends, then a couple weeks later same casual text, then emergency text, “thanks for wishing me good luck on my very dangerous surgery” the surgery wasn’t happening for another two months! I had no knowledge she was even injured. Then went through it again, said we can’t be friends. Same thing went down, she said “oh my god, I was in a car accident!” I then found out that the car accident was real, but small, and she told me two days after it already happened. During all this time she kept asking me if I hooked up with anyone.

She lives in North Carolina, she went home for the surgery for a couple of months. She actually ended up getting back together with her ex.  She hinted to me that they were together saying how she has to make money to pay for all her flights to go back home. I distanced myself because obviously I was hurt. I bought her a Christmas present and she made the joke, hey you should pay for my flight home, pretty much saying pay for me to see my bf. Then a month later after NC because she thought I was out of the country. She called me. We talked caught up. She was really sweet, then she went on to tell me about how all these guys are into her. How she got back with her ex, but then it didn’t work out because she was moving back to NYC but she’s already seeing this great guy in new York. She then asked if I wanted to meet him! That blew me away.

I texted her a few days later saying if you’re seeing someone then I don’t think it’s appropriate we talk. She texted me a hundred times and called me 15 times in three days. We finally talked. I told her that if you ever see us getting back together then we can remain friends. She said she NEVER sees us getting back together. I said then why do you not let me go? Why do you fight so much to keep me in your life. She told me she got over me really quickly, which is obviously a lie and never sees us getting back together, that it’s just friendly. She also said that she barely loved me, that she was still in love with her ex from North Carolina while we dated. They only dated for two months in the summer before I met her. She told me they were madly in love yet he broke up with her. This obviously really hurt. She told me she loved me 2 months into our relationship! Then a month later she broke up with me, then we got back together.  So I said ok, then we can’t be friends. Of course I wished her the best and distanced myself once again. She then texted me a few weeks later saying hey just checking in on you, I ignored it.

Then a couple weeks later she called me, I didn’t answer. I then texted her. I felt strong. Within the third text she asked to hangout. I skipped over the question just kept it casual. We’ve been texting back and forth now for the last week or so, she’s asked to hang out multiple times. The one night she texted me saying that she could live without going out to bars and stuff. She’s only been in that scene for 2 months and is already over it! Something she was obsessing over before she got there.  I was like oh no, you’re not having fun? She quickly back tracked and was like no no I am, it’s more the people I’m with. Just a weird statement to make. I think she was a little tipsy and revealed a little too much of her unhappiness to me and tried to cover it up. While we text she always calls me by full first name. She knows that only girls who love me and close family members who love me call me that. Which is true. So when she calls me that she knows what she’s doing because I told her when we were dating that its comforting to hear my full name. That I know I’m in the presence of someone who cares about me a lot.

She then came out and wanted to tell me that she wanted to “make sure” I was completely over her. I said she had nothing to worry about, she kept asking me if I was. She said she didn’t want to send mixed signals and asked me that if I had feelings for her would I let her know.  I finally said yes I’m over her. Which obviously I’m not. She then was like good good, so I guess I should tell you I have a bf.  And I kept cool and was like yeah I figured. She was surprised that I knew and was casual. Of course she asked me again to meet him, which makes no sense at all. I lied and said yeah, maybe we can do a double date or something!

She  wanted to know all the details about my friend. She then wanted to tell me about her new bf and was like or is it a sensitive subject still. And to be honest, I don't think she was was trying to be nice. She just wants to see how I react. She told me that he's super chill and is exactly what she needs. He balances out her nerves. I mean can that be true? Is she actually sweet and nice to him or she just as mean and demanding as she is to me? Because as soon as she said that she ended the text by saying so will you add me on facebook? Which she has asked me to do a hundred times since unfriending her. I said to her "that awesome you're happy with that guy, and sure, we can be facebook friends" She responds. "I mean it's not like you're doing me a favor. You're the one who unfriended me... . " She's so relentless. If this guy is so amazing why is she texting me?  She is literally obsessed with being friends on facebook, which is weird because my profile is public anway, she can see everything! I asked her why she wants to be facebook friends so badly and she said "don't read into it like I know you do, I just don't like when people have something against me" It's like oh really? Don't read into it? You mean the fact that you won't let me go, you have a bf, you constantly text me and even called me a bunch and ask if I'm dating and you expect me to not read into anything?

This whole experience has been so disheartening. She truly only makes an effort when I pull away. I don’t know what she wants from me. I know she still has feelings for me, I mean, if she was in a happy and healthy relationship with this new guy, then there is no way I would be hearing from her, there is no way she or he would want to meet me! Just none of it makes sense. Every time I pull away she doesn’t even last a month before contacting me. These reasons are why I’m on the fence because I went to counseling. My therapist’s main goal is trying to get me to recognize that this girl is literally incapable of having a happy and healthy loving relationship and that she is a major manipulator. Which I can’t deny, even when we dated she made me put in all the work to maintain the relationship. She is very much a spoiled princess. With a very intense career path, ballet. She’s young, she’s only 20. I’m 25. She was extremely needy, she would get stomachaches frequently and would make me pinky swear that she wouldn’t throw up. She also makes her mom pinky swear that her mother won’t die, every time when she talks on the phone to her, which is everyday like 3 times a day.

All her exes have left her. It seems like everyone eventually leaves her. Of course she acts like everything is amazing with this new guy but again, if everything was amazing I wouldn’t be renting any space in her head. I think oh man, maybe shes happy and not crazy with him, but I know that can’t be true. She’s probably just as abusive and manipulative to him as she was to me. Lets face it, if she did change then A. she wouldn’t be texting me, and B. She would probably be a lot nicer and sweeter to me rather then, “look how much fun I’m having. Everyone loves me!”  I can’t help but feel that if I wait it out and be a good friend to her. She’ll see that I really am one of the few guys that are willing to put up with her chaos. That I’m willing to stand by her, help her, work with her. When we first dated she told me that she’s crazy, and that I will want to breakup with her. It’s funny because that was the truest statement she ever said to me, but I want to stand by her. I know we can be happy together. I know there is a good girl deep down inside. I just go back and forth from saying ok, let me do this and wait it out or she’s a lost cause, she is incapable of being in a healthy relationship with anyone and was extremely abusive towards me, narcissistic, self centered, highly emotional and that she needs to mature and seek counseling.

I just wanted to add that before we broke up for good she wrote me this letter saying how much I mean to her and how amazing of a guy I am to stand by her, and that I always am the one to make things right when we fight. She also said that she thinks it's amazing that I would drive an hour and a half twice a week to see her. She would rarely drive to my place. She then went on to say though that I need to be sweeter and nicer, which is insane because her letter pretty much said how amazing I am! She's the one that needed to be nicer and sweeter to me!

She abused me so much, blaming me for every problem. I was never good enough. I used to beg her to just be nice to me. I told her that if she would just be sweet and kind to me, have sex with me (jokingly)  I would literally do anything for her. I don't ask for much.

Any insight or help would be greatly appreciated. I truly am torn. It’s like nothing I ever do is right by this girl.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

And for what reason would you want to continue any contact with her at all?

[zenwexler]

Because I still care about her. I want to be with her. I want to give things another go, especially now that I am in a better place and that I am more educated on her needs and what BPD is.

[itgirl]

Hi,

You received very good advice on the undecided board but I guess you don't want to hear that and will not follow the advice.  You say you want to give the relationship another go.  But she is not on the same page as you.  She has another boyfriend.  In my opinion she is just enjoying your attention.  If she wanted to be with you NOTHING will stop her.  If a girl wants a guy she will not be confusing you so much.   

Try and stop giving this girl so much of your attention.  It's time to live YOUR LIFE NOW.

[formflier]

 

I'm assuming that there are no children involved. 

Please look around at some of these posts and try to understand the pain and confusion of one parent that is trying to be a good parent and keep a family together when the other parent is emotionally unstable.

Avoid this at all costs in your life... . it is a big deal.

Now that you are aware of things you really need to think about your future and having a healthy stable relationship.

[zenwexler]

It's not that Im not listening to the undecided board. It's just that I wanted to hear what kind of feedback I may get on the staying board. And I know she's with another guy. But how long will that last? She's been trying to meet up and text me ever since they began dating. If she was in happy and healthy relationship I truly don't believe she would be contacting me. I especially don't think she would have tried to reach out whenever I say my good bye and go NC. She always pulls me back.  I just thought that maybe as a friend I could show her I have what it takes to stand by her. But I honestly don't know what the best approach is.

[Proud_Dad]

She's been trying to meet up and text me ever since they began dating. If she was in happy and healthy relationship I truly don't believe she would be contacting me. 

I don't want to tell you to the same thing that you are hearing on the Undecided Board because Staying to me is all about living a better life in a relationship with a pwBPD. However, it appears to me that she is not in the same place as you, if she was she would not be with another man. IMO if there is ever a situation where  Person A has a hard time choosing between Person X and Person Y, then Person A does not "love" either X or Y. Also,  if she truly is a pwBPD she will more than likely never be in a "happy and healthy relationship"... . just my 0.02.

I also have to reiterate what formflier's advice. It becomes a whole different ball game when children are involved, and believe me, children magnify any problems that previously existed in the relationship. Imagine bringing another life into your situation who is completely dependent on you and your SO. Children need structure and good examples to be set from day one.  The emotional warfare that takes place in some of these relationships is completely unfair to the children who have no choice but to stay. You, on the other hand, have an option to be healthy... . she has opened the door for you, but you have to make the choice because it appears that she either cannot or will not make a choice for herself.

[zenwexler]

Thanks makes sense. I can see that with my brother and his wife, they're first kid just turned one. She's honestly the only girl I ever actually considered settling down and having a family with. She's extremely loving to her immediate family. When we were dating and I visited her and her family I was blown away by how sweet and nice she was around them. She doesn't see them often but it was like I was with a new person entirely. Of course during that week she treated me like crap.

She's just so confusing. Yes, she says she wants to only be friends, yes, she is with someone else. But she texts and called me. Every time I pull away there she is to come running for me. She knows I'm leaving for San Diego for the summer, maybe longer, she lives in New York, and she really wants to see me before I leave. She's even being flexible with her schedule with is very very anti her. She's usually very rigid. I don't know. I just don't think her actions ever match up with her words. I truly do believe she still loves me. When we broke up the first time she told me she loved me 2 weeks before that, then said she felt nothing for me, two weeks later she got back together with me and was madly in love. So it's just so hard to ever listen to her words as truths.

If I knew there was no chance of ever getting back together with her, then I would probably move on. But her actions hold me back. And I just have my mind set on building a new relationship with her with my new knowledge of BPD. I'm willing to work with her and give it my all.

Another chance is all I'm truly after.  But it seems like the common theme on these boards is that having a relationship with a BPD is absolutely brutal and not worth it if you can avoid it.  Which I admit. I don't disagree.

[zenwexler]

Inhave it in my head that maybe she's changing. She moved to new york, she's going to like yoga and church. I can't help but think maybe she's more stable. But I don't know. Again. I guess she can't be because if she was then she would probably be nicer to me and probably wouldn't be texting me. This is all just so confusing. It's like I rather her be mean and nasty because it proves she's just not a nice person.

[Proud_Dad]

zenwexler,

I understand how you feel. I was in that place myself for a long time and it is not a fun place to be. It is a very difficult decision to have to make: love or logic.

I just don't think her actions ever match up with her words. I truly do believe she still loves me. When we broke up the first time she told me she loved me 2 weeks before that, then said she felt nothing for me, two weeks later she got back together with me and was madly in love. So it's just so hard to ever listen to her words as truths.

I can totally relate to this as well. I have reached the point in my relationship that I have detached from her words in order to maintain the relationship and my sanity. I take my queues from her actions as the things she tells me may be true at that moment, but 30 seconds later could be 180 degrees from true. You are right, it is extremely confusing and hurtful. I am staying for now, and I am better equipped to deal with the overly emotional BS that I receive with the tools found her. Now I can just and just smile and nod at all the things that she tells me (knowing it is all BS).

Keep yourself healthy and know that her actions are the truth.

Cheers

Proud_dad

[zenwexler]

Exactly! Thank you so much. That's why I stick around because her actions tell me to stay, that she wants me in her life. I just don't know. It's so hard, especially because she is in a relationship with someone

[Proud_Dad]

It's so hard, especially because she is in a relationship with someone

This is what I was refering to, this is the biggest tell of all.

[zenwexler]

She's in a relationship but she won't leave me alone

[formflier]

She's in a relationship but she won't leave me alone

Skip her... . wait to find someone who's actions match what they are telling you.  Long term... . it will work out much better... .

Actions not matching words... . big RED flag... that does not indicate true change for the better.

[Proud_Dad]

She's in a relationship but she won't leave me alone

Skip her... . wait to find someone who's actions match what they are telling you.  Long term... . it will work out much better... .

Actions not matching words... . big RED flag... that does not indicate true change for the better.

Go to San Diego with a clean slate and an open mind. I gaurantee you will have a much better time. San Diego is an awesome city and there will be pleny of distractions to take your mind off of her... . if you catch my drift.

[zenwexler]

It's funny, I say this with a smile on my face and tears in my eyes. Not even on the staying board can anyone tell me to keep this girl in my life. She really is that far gone? There really is nothing more for me to do? She really will always be a major burden on my life?

[formflier]

Others on the board talk about changing thinking from living by "default"... . to living by choices.  YOUR choices.  I think that is something you need to think on for a bit.  Then think about who is in control of your life... .

Define your life yourself... . do not define your life why what someone else does  or does not do...

She will only be a burden in your life if you choose to let her be a burden.

Look forward to San Diego... . do not look backwards at an old relationship.

It's funny, I say this with a smile on my face and tears in my eyes. Not even on the staying board can anyone tell me to keep this girl in my life. She really is that far gone? There really is nothing more for me to do? She really will always be a major burden on my life?

[Olinda]

I speak for myself and what I see in others on this board: we stay because we have  a lot invested.  And possibly more positives than what you have seen in this short relationship. 

If you were to put a pros and cons list together of staying on the 'crazy train' as someone put it on undecided board and then a list of pros and cons of forgetting her completely, what would weigh more?

You don't have children with her yet. Avoiding that, speaking as a parent, seems really key.

Another way to look at it: What would be the straw that broke the camel's back for you? What would finally be ENOUGH abuse and pushing away for you?

Find out what that is (her getting married? engaged? pregnant by another man? for her to stop calling you?)  Cuz she has already done a ton of things that 'healthy people' would not endure in a partner, including leave you for someone else. What will it take for you to listen to her actions that say 'I don't love you' (or maybe 'I am not capable of healthy love' and not her words?

What do you feel you deserve?

Good luck with your decision. You are the only one that has to live with it. And I venture to say, without knowing you at all, YOU DESERVE BETTER.

[zenwexler]

It really is incredible that on the staying board that all the feedback I get in a nutshell is RUN. Thank you all for all of your feedback. I sincerely mean that from the bottom of my heart. I'm going to be posting a new topic shortly. On the leaving board... I think I'm starting to get it. That unfortunately no matter how much I wish and pray that having a happy and healthy relationship with her is virtually impossible. She's truly incapable. And she has proved that. And no. She's not going to miraculously change with some yoga and church. And the fact that I would even want one with her is equally an issue.  Thank you all for pushing me to see things clearly

[Grey Kitty]

Well, it sounds like you are broken up, and your ex is with another guy, and she's chasing after you in ways that don't seem appropriate. (I suspect that her new guy would have good reason to be jealous about what she's trying to do with you)

I'm not going to say that you should cut your losses and cut contact with her--that is your choice to make, and I know it is a tough one.

I will say that if you try to maintain a friendship with her it will likely veer into inappropriate realms in the future, and you will have to be strong with your boundaries to protect yourself if you do try to keep a friendship going.

I'd also suggest that if she does decide to get back together with you for some reason, she hasn't given you any reason to expect something different than what you've seen so far.

[zenwexler]

So after spending almost everyday on this amazing forum with you amazing people and months of counseling I'm willing to accept reality. I have been living in a fantasy world that my ex will change. That with moving to New York, having a few extra friends around her, some yoga and church she'd suddenly be the sweet loving and caring person.

Talking to you all and my therapist I realized that this just isn't the case. That not only during our relationship but equally afterwards she clearly demonstrated that she is highly manipulative, abusive, and incapable of love. It's a heartbreaking realization but true none the less. I kept rationalizing and making excuses for her behavior but its time for me to move on.

My therapist said you MUST recognize how sick this girl is. And recognize how sick you are to even want a relationship with her. That if I was in a better place I would have never been in a relationship with her in the first place.

He asked what my biggest fear was. I told him that she would change and be happier and a great person without me.

He replied that I'm afraid that that "apple" will one day ripen? And that I'll never find a another one? He called me out and said that's an irrational fear. I then asked him if he thought her "apple" would ever ripen. He was dead serious when he said this. He's a no bull ___ kind of a guy. He Said he thinks she is rotten to the core.

Which I admit does sadden me.  I'm starting  to recognize that she truly will never be a caring loving person. I know how hard it is to change. And unfortunately the average person in the world don't change casually without a lot of hardwork.

My therapist said that with BPD. It's virtually impossible to ever live a happy and healthy lifestyle.

It's funny. He made sense of all her actions. How she manipulated me, how she never answers my questions about why she won't let me go. how she breaks me down, tells me she doesn't want to be together but refuses to let me go and never leaves me alone. Wants to know about my love life. Not becAuse she cares. But because she wants to know if I'm still available. Before we broke up she told me she would love to break up date other people then get back together later in life. Of course later down the road she said she doesn't feel that way anymore. But again her actions prove otherwise. I know she loves me. I know she wants me in her life. And I know a part of her would like to come back to me in time.  And I know she struggles to let me go. Because if she wanted to. Or could. She would have long ago. Especially after moving and dAting.  And I take comfort in that. I truly do.  Her words say no love but her actions scream I CARE. I LOVE AND MISS YOU!

I used to have anxiety about that I wasn't good enough. That I wasn't strong enough. That all her other exes broke up with her. Why did she break up with me? I learned from her old roommate that she abused all her exes full force just like me. She told me that she thought it was awesome how I would actually take a stand to her. That I wouldn't back down. That her exes never did that.

It makes so much sense. She left because  I didn't put up with her crazy. I challenged her. Pushed her to see reality and grow. And she didn't like it. I also realized that I wanted to break up with her multiple times. She just always dooped me to stay.

i would have been the third bf to break up with her in 1.5 years. It makes so much sense. And she broke up with me because once upon a time I was stronger. Higher self esteem. Not an easy target. I take comfort in that as well

It's always natural to fear when an ex gets a new relationship she's going to be amazing and happy and healthy with them and get married. Again her actions towards me prove to not be the case. I used to worry. What if her next relationship lasts? I realized if it does that just means this "laid back" nice guy from Hawaii is just giving her whatever ever she wants. That he's just catering to her everyday needs. And lets be honest. There is a ton, and most likely she's not really meeting his needs. So again. In the low self esteem state I have currently i take comfort in that as well. That shes abusing this guy just as much as she did all her bfs. No matter how great he is. And that if he lasts. It's because he's waved the white flag while she goes for the throat. I'm sure one day when I'm stronger I'll feel bad for him. But again. I take comfort in knowing that she's kind of doomed. I fully admit that. But hey. Anything that helps me sleep at night I'll take it.

I used to beg her. Just be nice to me. Give me some sex. And I'll literally do anything for you. ANYTHING. She couldn't even do that. All I ever asked was for some love. But she's selfish. Narcissistic and self centered. Even when she described her new bf it was selfish. He balances out my nerves. He's what I need.  All very self centered needy statements.

So I know the journey ahead is tough. I feel strong right now but I know I'll feel low at times as well. I'm going to ATTEMPT to maintain a friendship.

She's lost. She's scared. She's alone. Even in a relationship. She's unhappy. She always will be. And I'm going to support her to the best of my abilities. I want to be a strong enough person where I can handle anything thrown my way. And who knows. Maybe when she realizes how sad and alone she truly is we can try again. But I know that if I stick to the right path, that even if she would want to. Id be strong enough and healthy enough to recognize that that would not lead to a happy and fulfilled life.

I still do wish the best for her. I want everyone to be happy and in love. I know I have my problems. We all do. And I don't say this lightly, or for a self esteem boost. But I am the most loving and caring person I know. I know that any girl would be lucky to team up with me in life. Because I truly am willing to do whatever it takes for the people in my life.

Life is hard. I'm not looking for a wife. A girl to take care of. A sex partner. I'm looking for a best friend. A teammate. An equal.   Not someone that I have to look after. Someone who I can team up with and tackle life TOGETHER.

In this moment things are so clear. She'll never be happy. She'll never be healthy. She'll never add to my life. Just take. And being with her will not aid in my pursuit of happiness. in fact. She can only take away from it.

I know she'll try and convince me otherwise. I know she'll try and let me know how happy and healthy she's doing. It's what she always does. Unfortunately  her whole life is and always will be smoke and mirrors. Breaks my heart. But I can go to sleep at night knowing that I tried my best. That things didn't workout between us because I demanded more. Not because I wasn't good enough or expected too much.

And to be honest that makes me smile. Healthy people are attracted to healthy people. And at first she dooped me. But I saw the red flags by the second date when she yelled at me. When I picked up an abusive partner brochure at the health center. It was my fault for getting sucked in and staying. But hey. It's what they do best. And to be honest she was the first girl I ever got close with.

I know through this whole experience I have grown so much. I learned from my mistakes. I learned what I want in a relationship and what I don't. It still breaks my heart and saddens me knowing that I can never have a happy and healthy relationship with her. And that she is all smoke and mirrors. And that even when she appears to be happy and grounded that its all a show. All lies she tells me and herself.

I appreciate everyone's honest and sincere feedback. I'm going to continue to post on here and help others as well as still receive help and support. I know  everyone on here will continue to support me and remind me that this girl I love  is truly sick and to pursue a relationship with her isn't wise or healthy by no means. And that unfortunately she's not going to change. Just reminders that I'll still need to hear from other people.

Thank you all for everything.