The Attention Black Hole

[Peaceful Life]

Hi Friends, Well here we are again. My uDIL has not gotten enough attention. The Border-Lion is raging. I'm reading the book "The Essential Family Guide to Borderline Personality Disorder" and I think it is a wonderful book. I'm not done yet and it is helping me to understand more about what goes on inside the mind of someone with BPD. I do feel for her and anyone else with this illness, yet my biggest concern is for the children. My heart goes out to any of you who were raised with a parent with BPD.

I am just tired of sending love, attention, caring, etc. into this illness. It never seems to make a difference for very long. It is like sending all you do to a black hole. Have any of you experienced someone getting even a little better?

It feels like to me that my uDIL has it on her agenda to separate my husband and I from all of our children, not just our son she married. Her behavior has done the opposite. His siblings don't like her at all and feel sorry for him and the children but at the same time are very hurt and frustrated with their brother. It's like she hypnotizes him to do her bidding. We have always been a close family and they are very hurt. I think he just wants some peace in is life and is willing to do what she wants so she will stop bugging him about it.

We have a special needs son, FAS, who we adopted 16 yrs ago. He got into big trouble and is now in a facility for boys and is getting a lot of help. Our son called one day and asked if he go go see his little brother. We OK'd him to have contact. Our uDIL was in a calm place, so we thought, and it has turned out very badly. How could we tell our son not to go see his little brother? If I could get a do-over I would do just that. She has told our son who is in the center all kinds of things which are not true. The counselors are aware now and are giving it their attention. This week I think they called her on some things she has said. You can imagine what is coming our way.

I would have preferred to talk to her after a wedding that is coming up in May but now I'm not sure what to do. She has been making comments that tell me where she is. I've had nine years of this routine so it's pretty easy to pick up. 

I don't want her making a scene at our son's wedding but if we contact them now about her behavior and how it hurt our son in the facility and why she won't have contact with him, she won't be done raging by then... . We are bringing our grandchildren, their children, their birthday presents with us to the wedding so we can give them in person. Not sure they will let us... The children hear horrible things about all kinds of people they know but I sure wish they did not have to hear things about us. This must hurt and confuse them.

Any advice would surely be appreciated.

Thank you

[Kwamina]

Hi Peaceful Life  

That attention black hole is something I've noticed too. It's like there's a hole inside of them that can never be filled. I understand why you're so concerned about the children. BPD is such a disruptive disorder and can have a huge impact on children. I was raised by an uBPD mother so I have experienced this myself. Certain people with BPD definitely can get better in the sense that they learn how to better manage their thoughts, emotions and behaviors. But this can only happen if they acknowledge their problems and are willing to commit themselves to treatment.

It's clear that it pains you to see how your son's life has changed since he married her and that you're very worried about your grandchildren. I also sense that this has taken a great toll on you. It isn't easy to give specific advice for the situation you describe but one thing I would say is to try to step back now and then and focus on taking care of your own emotional well being. I realize this ain't easy when it concerns your own child and grandchildren, but after my experiences dealing with BPD relatives I know how important it is to take the time to recharge your battery. Otherwise this whole BPD drama will absorb all your energy and leave you completely depleted. A black hole indeed!

[Peaceful Life]

Hi Kwamina 

I do feel for my son and all his family. It is like a person with BPD keeps them in a constant state of war. It's almost like they can't relax unless there is a battle going on. I know that sounds weird... . Did your mom ever get so busy that she would forget to feed you? I know my uDIL would have her mom call her often to ask if she remembered to feed and change diapers... . Is that common?

I have had to step back many times so I know what you are advising is true I find myself thinking I need to fix a problem I never created and that just doesn't make sense. I will continue to watch her and any correspondence she has with my teens. Really besides stepping back and sending love, that's all I can do. Thank you for you kind help. I'm very grateful to have found these boards.

[Kwamina]

I do feel for my son and all his family. It is like a person with BPD keeps them in a constant state of war. It's almost like they can't relax unless there is a battle going on. I know that sounds weird... .

Well actually, this doesn't sound weird at all. This is exactly my experience, you get so used to the constant chaos it's almost like an addiction. When it's calm it's like you're having withdrawal symptoms as a result of not getting your daily dose of BPD drama. Another way to look at it is that children with raging BPD parents always expect the next attack and that's why they are always on edge and very tense. The fear of what might happen next is very stressful for a child and the constant fear is sometimes even worse than any actual attacks. "’T is harder knowing it is due, Than knowing it is here."

Did your mom ever get so busy that she would forget to feed you? I know my uDIL would have her mom call her often to ask if she remembered to feed and change diapers... . Is that common?

I don't know if this is common, but people with BPD's mind tend to race which makes it very difficult for them to think straight. What I also know is that them forgetting things, isn't always really them forgetting things but a way for them to punish others or the 'world' for all their perceived injustices. Examples from my own life are my mother not paying for my tuition because she 'had to save for her vacation' and her not paying the electricity bill and lying to my face about it a few days before another of her grande vacations.

Really besides stepping back and sending love, that's all I can do.

It's frustrating that we can't do more but unfortunately we can't make others change. Accepting this is difficult, but when you do come to the point of acceptance it will make dealing with this situation a little easier. It is what it is, but what we can do is change ourselves and how we interact with the people with BPD in our life. Glad to see you found my advice helpful

[livednlearned]

I don't have a BPD mother, but my ex husband is N/BPDx. He started a very slow, steady campaign to alienate me from my family, so I can identify with the position that your son is in. I think my mother would identify a lot with your comment that dealing with BPD sufferers is a black hole. She developed stress-related problems trying to stay in contact with me and (at that point) her only grandchild.

My mother is a really sweet person, beloved by many people. I don't know anyone who has as many friends as she does, a truly, warm, caring, fun person. My ex husband hated her and treated her cruelly. He tried to convince me she was a danger to our child. He would take something with a tiny grain of truth and distort it in ways that were hard to refute. Being in between the two of them was exhausting. As a result, I stopped wanting my mom to come visit. It was too painful to watch her being attacked, and I felt the only way to help her was to say nothing. Not surprisingly, this is how my father dealt with my uBPD brother's abuse toward me. One time my mom came to visit and N/BPDx husband refused to look at her, acknowledge her, or talk to her. He even served dinner one night and put food on the table for everyone but her. For what? I still don't know. My mom had never experienced anyone like that, and she would spend the whole visit crying. After a while, she and my dad decided it was best if they stayed in a hotel, and that worked ok, but inevitably there would be a blow-out of massive proportions. I started to avoid invitations to visit them, and started to have excuses for why they couldn't visit. Mostly, I had a phone relationship with my mom that I kept private. I would call her when I was at work, or out running errands so that N/BPDx couldn't further poison our relationship.

Being married to someone who is BPD put me in survival mode all. the. time. It was treading water day after day after day, and it's hard to do anything except stay afloat. The fears I felt about leaving came true, although I never predicted how much more safe and calm I would feel, so it was hard to know that something good was on the other side. But divorcing or leaving a BPD spouse is terrifying. A lot of us worry about our kids and what will happen if we are not there to protect them. The alienation that my ex did to my mom, he then tried to do to my son.

The hardest thing for spouses in the relationship is to acknowledge what is happening. Once I admitted to myself how bad it was, that meant a new purgatory of making a decision about what to do. It took me four years to leave, and one year of very careful planning. When I left, my parents flew out to help me stabilize. It was like a reunion, finally seeing them without having to worry about what N/BPDx would do.

Does your son know that his wife is BPD?

[Peaceful Life]

Thank you Kwamina and livednlearned, All this good advice and the fact that you KNOW what I'm talking about is so wonderful! My husband and I did tell our son years ago what we were seeing in his wife. It was after our other son died of pneumonia. He was a beautiful young man and this was heartbreaking for all of us. Our uDIL felt that after 3 mos I shouldn't be grieving any more and told our son we were not going to be able to see our grandchildren. She felt it would be unhealthy for them to be around me. She also told our son that we must not love him as much as our son who crossed over. Our son did not believe her. He just came up with a lot of excuse as to why she behaves like she does. After months of NC from us because I was unhealthy, she wrote to us and told us how sorry she was. Letters went back and forth and then when they came for a visit all of us girls went into town to go shopping. My eldest daughter jumped in the front seat and my uDIL and my youngest daughter got in the back. When we got home she pulled my little girl into a room and told her that I don't love her. That I would say I love her but she was never to believe me. Of course our youngest was so upset and so scared of her. Her excuse for doing that? We made her get in the back seat... . MADE. This of course meant we didn't like her. We were treating her like a lower class citizen.

livednlearned thank you for letting me know how it was for you and your mom. My son promised he would never do this to the family again but it is out of his control. Now he just looks off in the distance when we have seen him.

I have a lot of faith that we will get to communicate with our son again. I know he is under a lot of pressure at home and just wants peace. Again, thank you so very much for being here for all of us going through this.

[Cassy]

Peaceful, they are just a black hole of neediness, in my experience. Nothing we can do is ever good enough, fast enough, said with the right tone, wrapped in the right paper, done with the right facial expression and they look (create) something "meaningful" in the most mundane things. I've had issues because I handed a different teacup to a family member once or opened someone's else's present first (as if I knew who gave me what wrapped gift).

I particularly recognize the way she attempted to manipulate your daughter. I find my BPD family member loves to "connect" through fracturing the family... . convincing people they're being wronged or not liked when it's just not true. I also find my BPDer will jump through hoops to find someone to join her in a campaign of anger. Mother once spent an entire night calling people - 2, 3, 4 am trying to get another family member's phone number because she heard THAT family member was angry at someone she didn't like. She simply wanted to find a kindred spirit to assist her in her war of hatred on the person she didn't like.

Of course, that can all change on a dime and she'll jump "teams" in a nano second and say, "I don't know what you're talking about. I've never been mad at... . ".

Give us all strength.

[livednlearned]

I'm so sorry for your loss, Peaceful. I cannot imagine the grief you must feel, and then on top of it your uDILs lack of empathy when you are mourning something so painful. My grandmother was waif uBPD and there was nothing worse than her behavior when someone passed away. Not having empathy at a time like that can be nothing less than shocking. That you're dealing with grief at the same time processing feelings of shock and anger -- so challenging. I hope you have lots of family support to help you get through these times.  

It's very sad that your son cannot ally with you, even if he wants to. And it probably isn't because he doesn't love you, it's because he sees how his wife behaves with the kids. He's probably trying to survive, which is not a very strong place to be in, and doesn't know how to manage her, and is likely torn to shreds about the impact she has on the kids. Even if he can't articulate it, or won't acknowledge it, he knows the kids are being scarred. Looking off into the distance is checking out, because checking in means he has to do something, and none of his options are easy.

It took years of abuse for me to tell anyone what was going on. Of course, they already knew. But still, I had to get to the point where I was ready. One of the best things a friend of mine said is that she would never judge me if I stayed -- she is a social worker, and understood how hard it is psychologically to leave an abusive relationship. Sometimes, when we tell people how bad it is, but we stay, the shame is so great we start to sever relationships with people. It's like we expose our weakness, and can't handle what others must think of us for staying. When she told me she didn't judge me, I didn't understand. But it ended up taking me years to leave. I always had her to talk to, and her unconditional support gave me the tiniest lifeline of strength to help pull me through. I don't know if your son is struggling with similar things, just want to say that your support of him, not judging him -- it can go a long way. When you live with someone who is so dysregulated, who abuses you, distorts reality, it makes you feel crazy. Letting him know that you will be there for him -- meanwhile having good boundaries for yourself -- that's going to mean a lot to him, even if you don't see immediate results.

I wish the best for you, Peaceful Life.

[Peaceful Life]

Cassy! Have you been following me around?  You really get what I'm going through! This disorder has so many components to it. When I found the answer in "Stop Walking on Eggshells" years ago I knew my grief counselor was correct. She has this disorder and it helped me make more sense of what was going on. But now that I've found this board, finally I have other sane people who I can talk to who understand the pain this can create in the family. I'm a life coach and have been able to help my family through this and even my uDIL for a year, but still things come up like this wedding in May. It is the unpredictability of her actions there that cause me to stop and think about what might happen and have a plan to escort her out. My uDIL is not doing what I taught her to do to stay healthy. As soon as she stopped meditating, herbs and EFT she went right backwards. Who knows, she might have been faking it as she was in another state, but we actually had conversations for a while. Thank you for "getting it". I'm sure we all need support from one another to see clearly.

Peaceful Life

[Peaceful Life]

Thank you Livednlearned,

You made me cry. Yes it has been a very challenging time. It felt like I had two sons die. It was shocking and painful. We tell our of our children that we are here for them always. Our son knows this but I think he gets caught up in her world and his mind gets brainwashed for a bit and he goes into some kind of waking sleep. We will always stay in touch with him if he allows it.

Thank you for you insights on how it is to live with a spouse with BPD. The only thing we feel we can do is make sure he knows we love him and will help him in any way we can. He has four little ones with her and I'm sure he feels trapped and afraid for his kids.

You know it must have been so hard for you to go through what you did with you spouse. And yet... . here you are having the experience and know-how of what to do to help others. What a wonderful way to turn the pain into purpose.

Thank you so much

[P.F.Change]

I am just tired of sending love, attention, caring, etc. into this illness. It never seems to make a difference for very long. It is like sending all you do to a black hole. Have any of you experienced someone getting even a little better?

You can learn tools to better cope with BPD behaviors; you cannot make her better.

BPD is a treatable disorder if the person wants to be in treatment and is willing to stick with it and do the hard work. Many people do undergo successful treatment for BPD. Many more never seek therapy because it is too painful to admit there is anything wrong with their behavior or that they need help.

I am sorry for what you have been through, losing your son and struggling with your DIL while another child is in residential treatment. I am glad you have a counselor to talk to. I learned a lot from therapy.

Have you seen any of the Lessons here about boundaries and communication? Is there anything we can help you with?

Wishing you peace,

PF

[Peaceful Life]

Hi PF, Thank you for you kind words. I am reading a lot on here and in books right now. Honestly, my heart goes out to anyone with this illness. I would not want to live in her head. What I can use help with is what to do when they make a scene at a family gathering... . like the wedding we have coming up. I do know how to talk to her if she will let me but when she is raging and crying... . well, she is in hell and it's tough to get through right then. It is so painful for her to have other people in the spotlight. It seems like she is feeling she disappears if others are the ones getting the attention. That is when it gets a bit tricky. Especially when you don't know when something has triggered her. I can tell when she is getting overdone... she will stare off into to space a bit. Right now we are doing are best to have some kind of communication with her which is positive.

It will all work out and my son and his sweet fiance will be married and on their honeymoon   I do wish there was more we could do to help our uDIL. Our son knows we are here for him and that we love all of them. For now, that seems to be all we can do.

[P.F.Change]

What I can use help with is what to do when they make a scene at a family gathering... . like the wedding we have coming up. I do know how to talk to her if she will let me but when she is raging and crying... . well, she is in hell and it's tough to get through right then.

I think we do have some tools that can help in those situations, Peaceful Life. Here are some I might start with:

BOUNDARIES: Upholding our values and independence

TOOLS: Triggering, Mindfulness, and the Wise Mind

Communication tools (SET, PUVAS, DEARMAN)

It seems asking her to leave would be a last resort and that her behavior isn't likely to be quite so bad as to warrant that. However, many people have found it helpful to hire security at weddings when they know in advance a high-conflict personality will be attending and might cause significant problems. If you are worried about things reaching that level, it is something to consider.

It sounds to me like you are more concerned that she will get her feelings hurt and start crying, for example. In that case I think it is ok to allow her to find some space to calm down on her own--you don't have to try to make her feel better. It is ok to decide ahead of time that the wedding will be a time to focus on celebrating your son and his new bride. There may be someone in attendance who would be willing to be assigned the task of keeping your DIL engaged in conversation, which might help her feel more secure. What do you think?

[Peaceful Life]

Thank you PF Change,

I think those are very valuable tools. Definitely will be using them. I would love to have someone to keep her engaged in conversation... . She has hurt so many family members I'm having a hard time. I do feel for her having this illness but I do need to hold her accountable for her behavior. At least with me and my younger teens. She is very good at turning everything around to be someone else's fault. For instance, her excuse for treating me badly after my son died was to tell me she is very protective of my son she married. It's not her fault. She didn't get enough love growing up. I am in a good place so what ever happens, we will deal with it. I am soo grateful for these boards!