Recycling, the cruise, words vs actions

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

All-

Some of you may of read my long thread(s) about my situation.  I won't go in to all of that again but I do need some advice from the group; if I may ask.

My ex dBPDgf had planned a cruise with my replacement while they were in their honeymoon phase.  That was some time ago now (months ago).  Since just before Christmas, her and I have been recycling somewhat - well, everything but sexually.  I see her every day except for a couple.  She spends very little time with my replacement and it has slowly gotten to the point to where she says that she loves me, not him; can't love him and that she's sorry about this whole situation... . that she rushed in to another r/s and now she's regretting it.  That she feels that some day, some how, we will be back together.

That said, Saturday they had a date planned to talk about the cruise.  We had spent a wonderful night together the night before.  That was on her mind and she completely dysregulated while with him and came crying over to my house.  She said that she tried to break up with him but then he would start crying and blaming himself and she felt guilty and couldn't follow through.  She asked to have until Monday (today) to decide about the cruise.

We spent the weekend together and had a wonderful day yesterday.  Tonight she was to go to his place to talk.  I was ok with it; being strong and understanding of the difficult situation.  Then it all started to weigh on me.  After 3 hours, I get an "I love you text".  To cut to the chase, she has apparently told him that she wants to go on the cruise.  She said that "he knows that there's no future with them" and that she's going to be staying in his sisters cabin.  That this has been the source of all of her stress and sleepless nights for so long and that she just wants to go to experience this without the guilt or pressure of feeling bad for wanting to do so.  She begged me to please not "go away forever." and that "she's sorry... . ".

I explained that I do understand the difficult decision but that I have to process all of this and make some decisions myself.  That no matter the circumstance, her being on a cruise with another man for a week is a very difficult pill for me to swallow when she's been telling me all this time now that I'm the one that she's in love with.  I asked her to please understand my position and that I do love her.

She said that she does understand and to please try and understand hers as well and with that, we texted goodnight.

So, question for the panel: what to do?  Am I being insecure?  Jealousy is obviously at play here.  My mind questions if I'd want someone that will jeopardize our future for a cruise that her and I could take at some point later on.  I also worry about the obvious... . they'll be on a cruise together and "what happens on a cruise, stays on a cruise" so to speak.  Or even at worst, they rekindle their r/s and I'm stuck sitting here hoping for the best.  That will be a week of hell for me no matter how much she reassures me that she's not going as a couple and that nothing will happen.  

What say you guys and gals?

[In_n_Out]

All-

Some of you may of read my long thread(s) about my situation.  I won't go in to all of that again but I do need some advice from the group; if I may ask.

My ex dBPDgf had planned a cruise with my replacement while they were in their honeymoon phase.  That was some time ago now (months ago).  Since just before Christmas, her and I have been recycling somewhat - well, everything but sexually.  I see her every day except for a couple.  She spends very little time with my replacement and it has slowly gotten to the point to where she says that she loves me, not him; can't love him and that she's sorry about this whole situation... . that she rushed in to another r/s and now she's regretting it.  That she feels that some day, some how, we will be back together.

That said, Saturday they had a date planned to talk about the cruise.  We had spent a wonderful night together the night before.  That was on her mind and she completely dysregulated while with him and came crying over to my house.  She said that she tried to break up with him but then he would start crying and blaming himself and she felt guilty and couldn't follow through.  She asked to have until Monday (today) to decide about the cruise.

We spent the weekend together and had a wonderful day yesterday.  Tonight she was to go to his place to talk.  I was ok with it; being strong and understanding of the difficult situation.  Then it all started to weigh on me.  After 3 hours, I get an "I love you text".  To cut to the chase, she has apparently told him that she wants to go on the cruise.  She said that "he knows that there's no future with them" and that she's going to be staying in his sisters cabin.  That this has been the source of all of her stress and sleepless nights for so long and that she just wants to go to experience this without the guilt or pressure of feeling bad for wanting to do so.  She begged me to please not "go away forever." and that "she's sorry... . ".

I explained that I do understand the difficult decision but that I have to process all of this and make some decisions myself.  That no matter the circumstance, her being on a cruise with another man for a week is a very difficult pill for me to swallow when she's been telling me all this time now that I'm the one that she's in love with.  I asked her to please understand my position and that I do love her.

She said that she does understand and to please try and understand hers as well and with that, we texted goodnight.

So, question for the panel: what to do?  Am I being insecure?  Jealousy is obviously at play here.  My mind questions if I'd want someone that will jeopardize our future for a cruise that her and I could take at some point later on.  I also worry about the obvious... . they'll be on a cruise together and "what happens on a cruise, stays on a cruise" so to speak.  Or even at worst, they rekindle their r/s and I'm stuck sitting here hoping for the best.  That will be a week of hell for me no matter how much she reassures me that she's not going as a couple and that nothing will happen.  

What say you guys and gals?

[sirhero]

All-

Some of you may of read my long thread(s) about my situation.  I won't go in to all of that again but I do need some advice from the group; if I may ask.

My ex dBPDgf had planned a cruise with my replacement while they were in their honeymoon phase.  That was some time ago now (months ago).  Since just before Christmas, her and I have been recycling somewhat - well, everything but sexually.  I see her every day except for a couple.  She spends very little time with my replacement and it has slowly gotten to the point to where she says that she loves me, not him; can't love him and that she's sorry about this whole situation... . that she rushed in to another r/s and now she's regretting it.  That she feels that some day, some how, we will be back together.

That said, Saturday they had a date planned to talk about the cruise.  We had spent a wonderful night together the night before.  That was on her mind and she completely dysregulated while with him and came crying over to my house.  She said that she tried to break up with him but then he would start crying and blaming himself and she felt guilty and couldn't follow through.  She asked to have until Monday (today) to decide about the cruise.

We spent the weekend together and had a wonderful day yesterday.  Tonight she was to go to his place to talk.  I was ok with it; being strong and understanding of the difficult situation.  Then it all started to weigh on me.  After 3 hours, I get an "I love you text".  To cut to the chase, she has apparently told him that she wants to go on the cruise.  She said that "he knows that there's no future with them" and that she's going to be staying in his sisters cabin.  That this has been the source of all of her stress and sleepless nights for so long and that she just wants to go to experience this without the guilt or pressure of feeling bad for wanting to do so.  She begged me to please not "go away forever." and that "she's sorry... . ".

I explained that I do understand the difficult decision but that I have to process all of this and make some decisions myself.  That no matter the circumstance, her being on a cruise with another man for a week is a very difficult pill for me to swallow when she's been telling me all this time now that I'm the one that she's in love with.  I asked her to please understand my position and that I do love her.

She said that she does understand and to please try and understand hers as well and with that, we texted goodnight.

So, question for the panel: what to do?  Am I being insecure?  Jealousy is obviously at play here.  My mind questions if I'd want someone that will jeopardize our future for a cruise that her and I could take at some point later on.  I also worry about the obvious... . they'll be on a cruise together and "what happens on a cruise, stays on a cruise" so to speak.  Or even at worst, they rekindle their r/s and I'm stuck sitting here hoping for the best.  That will be a week of hell for me no matter how much she reassures me that she's not going as a couple and that nothing will happen. 

What say you guys and gals?

Actions, speak louder than words my friend. If she wanted to really be with you, she wouldn't even be going on that cruise with him. She'd be right in your arms... . but shes not. She's going to be on a nice cruise ship with him and his family having the time of her life all the meanwhile texting you here and there telling you she loves you so you don't "go away forever". She says its pressure and guilt, but does she not realize how worst it will make her look to him and his family when she breaks up with him right after the cruise? That'll just cause even more shame and guilt for her and that will be another reason for why she can't be with you right now and why you need to continue to wait for her. I respect you IO, but when are you going to respect yourself? Is she in therapy, is she working on herself at all? It really seems like she isn't and I hate to say it, but there is a very high chance you will be hurt again. And the dance will repeat itself. She doesn't understand your position my friend, otherwise like I said above, she would not be going on this cruise. What are your boundaries? If you guys were together would you be okay with her hanging out with her Ex so much? Though then again you probably wouldn't know because she'd be doing it behind your back like she is to this guy and you're perfectly okay with that. Your choice to do what you want IO, but from an outside perspective who is out of the FOG, it just ain't right.

[tired-of-it-all]

A good friend said to me once, "why do you treat yourself this way?". That was an eye opening moment. I ask you the same. Why are you in a relation with someone so untrustworthy? She is treating both of you very badly. There are good people out there who do not play these games.

[Fool for Love]

You said she has tried to break it off with this guy ? How do you know ? Oh ya , that's what she said ... . So after all the lies that you knew about before and what she did to you before , she is going to change ? I bet this guy doesn't even know what's going on ... . does the phrase " cake and eat it to " come to mind ? So you are the one that's going to be understanding ? And approve of her going on a cruise with another man ? Let me ask you this ... . if the roles where reversed and this was you... and she wanted to work on the relationship ... . would YOU go on a cruise with another women if you loved her ? Would SHE accept this ? Think about it dude ... . get you head out of the fog ... . just cold facts is all you need .

[In_n_Out]

Thanks all, and yes, am in the FOG but I do see through it.  To answer the question "would I go if the roles were reversed?".  No, not if I wanted to work on the r/s.  She's never committed to doing that.  The best that it's been is a "someday".  I know that she doesn't know what she wants long term and so she can only think short term right now. I have absolutely no right to demand that she not go; it must be a choice that she makes without fear of consequences.  But we all know how well pwBPD can make healthy, well thought out decisions for themselves... .

I've told her that I need to think upon this; to see what my boundaries are and if this is a healthy situation *for me*.  I'll wait until she leaves for the cruise (May 12th) - perhaps before then she will decide that trying to work on us is more important than a cruise (as if).  But if not, then I'll happily wave "bon-voyage!" and block, block, block so that I don't get sucked into the FOG again.

[Skip]

I have been recycling somewhat - well, everything but sexually.

She spends very little time with my replacement

She said that "he knows that there's no future with them" and that she's going to be staying in his sisters cabin.

What do these two actions say, collectively?

It's alway hard to read these things, but as a casual observer, the question I have is "does she love either of you?".  Could it be that you both have a role in her life - but its not a a serious, long term love, nor building to that right now, nor monogamous.  She is dating around.

In your shoes, I might have been thinking that 4 months in a sexless relationship is just taking it slow.  People do that.  Four months is a long time, but rebuilding can be take a while.

Seeing the other guy occasionally - that says something else.  For me, after the first month that would be a real indicator that we are not in a relationship.  

Taking a cruise with his family - that's a huge puzzle piece.

That she feels that some day, some how, we will be back together.  

She says it here "some day, some how, we will be back together" - meaning your not in a relationship right now.  And the cruise says "not anytime soon".  

The cruise also says she either thinks you are so there for her that you be good with it, and/or that you understand that your not in a relationship and cool with it, and/or its a chance (losing you) shes willing to take.

So, in a lot a lot of ways, this tells you exactly where you are.  

It's very risky to invest your heart and all your time into something like this.  

You up for this is casual dating?  Cutting your time back with her and seeing others?

Would you hang in as just a stepping stone for her right now?  :)o you get enough from the relationship, all considering?

[cosmonaut]

I am of two completely, and irreconcilable, minds of this, I/O.  One part of me can so clearly see that your ex is a grandmaster of triangulation and manipulation, and I don't believe for one second that this will end after the cruise.  This maddening back and forth will go on and on and on until either you or the replacement pulls the plug.  On the other hand, I so deeply identify with your longing to believe that love can prevail.  That if you can just be loving enough, and patient enough, and understanding enough, and validating enough that all this will allow you to have the relationship with your ex you have always dreamed of.  I identify so strongly with this desire, because that is what I so achingly long for with my own ex.  I know something of how to you must feel to be willing to make this work no matter what it takes.

This, however, is my hard boiled advice:  unless she is willing to accept that she has a serious disorder and is willing to fully and sincerely commit to addressing that disorder through sustained therapy, there is just no way this will ever work regardless of what you do, I/O.  I know this is a most bitter pill to swallow.  I have been talking long with my therapist about own my desire to somehow work through things with my ex, especially now that I have learned so much about BPD - something I knew nothing of while in the relationship.  The truth is that being in a relationship with an untreated pwBPD is like being trapped in a minefield that stretches to the horizon in all directions.  No matter how gingerly you step, no matter how careful you are sooner or later you are going to be blown up.  And yet, we are so blind to our predicament.  We think that we are almost out of the minefield - if we can just reach that hill, then we will be out of it, if we can just pass that patch of dirt, we will be safe.  And yet that safety never comes.  We never reach our goal, despite our much we keep hoping that it's only a little further.

It is a crushing realization to make that we are powerless to save our pwBPD.  We can't make them get the help they so desperately need if they simply refuse to do so.  This is such a terrible tragedy because BPD is a treatable disorder!  There really is a path for pwBPD to achieve a healthy and stable life.  The kicker is that this is if, and only if, they choose it.  I think the only chance you have at any type of lasting or healthy relationship with your ex is to be completely honest about this.  You have to be unflinchingly consistent and unyielding that there is no possible way that things will work if she does not address her disorder.  This is, of course, not her fault, but it is the reality of things.  This is not something you can do for her, although you will be there for her as a support every step of the way.  Use all of your skills in validation and SET in continually reinforcing this to her.  Repeat over and over that you are not abandoning her, that you will be there with her all the way through this.

As upset as you are about the cruise, and I understand very much why it bothers you - it would anyone, I don't think that the cruise is all that much different than her behavior everyday.  This is the same situation she has been living for months now.  The only way to break the cycle is either 1)for you (or the replacement) to put a stop to it (doesn't sound like he's going to do so any time soon, especially since he is the one "losing" right now) or 2) she accepts that she has a serious disorder for which she needs professional help to overcome, and she needs to take some time out of dating to deal with that.

Good luck, I/O.  :)espite my very heavy advice, I really do hope the best for you.  I pray that you and your ex will both find happiness and peace in life, no matter what road you both end up taking.  Keep us updated.  Really do wish the best for you.

[BPDFamily]

The term "triangulation" has been used several times in this thread.

We may be using the term incorrectly.

Here is a discussion of triangulation: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=121673.msg1200251#msg1200251

[goldylamont]

In_n_Out i'm a little disappointed as i feel like you are simply moving your boundaries to allow her to do whatever she wants. i don't really see a reason for her not to go on the cruise? when she can have a fun vacation with another man and then come back to you for emotional support whenever she needs. can you explain how it would benefit her to not go?

it's been a few weeks but i remember discussing on some previous threads--your boundaries seemed to be that she would have to leave this guy or you were out. from my memory, at that time, the cruise was a big NO for you. yet now it's something that you'll have to think about? why is this? and this is her fiance, no? and she's got his whole family involved in this charade? and i think we can safely assume that neither he nor his family know that you are spending so much time together and that she is saying that she is still in love with you... .

there is the question of whether you are happy being her emotional outlet, perhaps having a polygamous r/s with her. but in this situation she's not being honest to either of you. at this point i feel that you are actually an accomplice in this. in a way i'm unsure if you can complain that she is 'abusive' if you are actively help her to do this to another man.

the reason why she likes you now is because she has a fiance. when he's gone, maybe you'll have a short recycle, but then she'll get bored and need another guy to balance you out to do the dance again.

she doesn't want just you--it's not in her dna << is this something you can fully accept?

she decided to go on that cruise months ago (i think the only debate is within you) and none of your feelings about it have mattered in the least to her. maybe she has some fears of losing you but over the past few months i feel you've telegraphed enough to her that it'll be ok, she can still get you back. allowing your boundaries to shift like this is giving her some valuable information about how much fun and flexibility she truly has to see other people and still keep you in her life whenever she wants... . if all she has to do is show up on your doorstep, because eventually you'll come around.

you can learn the truth from watching her behaviors and not her words--but trust she's watching and learning from your behaviors as well.

[In_n_Out]

What do these two actions say, collectively?

It's alway hard to read these things, but as a casual observer, the question I have is "does she love either of you?".  Could it be that you both have a role in her life - but its not a a serious, long term love, nor building to that right now, nor monogamous.  She is dating around.

In your shoes, I might have been thinking that 4 months in a sexless relationship is just taking it slow.  People do that.  Four months is a long time, but rebuilding can be take a while.

Seeing the other guy occasionally - that says something else.  For me, after the first month that would be a real indicator that we are not in a relationship.  

Yes, she has never said that she's ready to work on rebuilding our r/s.  She hasn't committed to that at all.  The cycle has progressed from "let me go" to "I love you and I don't know how or when, but I know in my heart that we'll be together one day".

Taking a cruise with his family - that's a huge puzzle piece.

Exactly.  I know her thought process.  She can't think long term.  She's said "go date other people" but when I mention that I have, she dysregulates and wants to run. So she can only think short term and all that she sees is her putting her feet in the sand on some beach and having fun on a cruise ship but she doesn't consider the implications of how that will kill a chance for us and what it is that he and his family are going to think if she does leave him afterwards.  Which she won't.  The cycle will just continue.

She says it here "some day, some how, we will be back together" - meaning your not in a relationship right now.  And the cruise says "not anytime soon".  

The cruise also says she either thinks you are so there for her that you be good with it, and/or that you understand that your not in a relationship and cool with it, and/or its a chance (losing you) shes willing to take.

So, in a lot a lot of ways, this tells you exactly where you are.  

You're absolutely correct here.  Again, she's thinking short term only while I'm trying to think long term.  I can either deal with it and just worry about the short term as well or drop her because there is no long term plans and I've invested too much time hoping for more already.

It's very risky to invest your heart and all your time into something like this.  

You up for this is casual dating?  Cutting your time back with her and seeing others?

Would you hang in as just a stepping stone for her right now?  :)o you get enough from the relationship, all considering?

When we're together, even though sex isn't involved, we have a wonderful time.  If I just live in the moment, I'm good with it and want more of that.  But then I do start to think long term and wanting more from the r/s right now, this moment, where as she's not ready to go there yet.  She's commented frequently lately that she'd just like to run away and have nobody in her life right now; to just work on herself.  That would be a wonderful idea but she knows and I know she can't and won't do that.  She can't be alone for any length of time.

Thanks for your input Skip

[In_n_Out]

from my memory, at that time, the cruise was a big NO for you. yet now it's something that you'll have to think about? why is this? and this is her fiance, no? and she's got his whole family involved in this charade? and i think we can safely assume that neither he nor his family know that you are spending so much time together and that she is saying that she is still in love with you... .

They were never engaged.   She declined his offer.  As just mentioned, we have progressed to the point to where "he is out, I am in" yet she won't fully commit to the "in" part nor to the "out" part just yet.  Just a threat of "someday".

And yes, the boundary is still set... . if she goes on the cruise, I am out.  I'm hoping that within the next 2 weeks before the cruise she will make her own decision that going on the cruise for the short term gain is not a good thing for her long term goal of rekindling a r/s with me... . should that be what she wants to do.  And I want her to come to that realization without threat, intimidation or fear of consequence. 

Part of my email that I sent her this morning talks about my boundaries:

That said, I have to determine what my boundaries are.  Not what it is that  I will *allow* you to do but what it is that I will *allow* to have done to  me that would affect me personally before my boundary is crossed. Do I want  you to have a wonderful time on a cruise some day?  Hell yeah.  I'd love to  be the one that gets to share those first experiences with you.  Is my  boundary of tolerance being crossed if you go with (him) and his family  though?  That's what I have to decide.

[Skip]

A couple of things to think about... .

She's commented frequently lately that she'd just like to run away and have nobody in her life right now; to just work on herself.

This is polite relationship speak for "If you make any demands, I'd prefer to run away and have not have you in my life right now".  She makes it universal so that its not so awkward to say and she won't need to defend it.

This tactic is as old as relationships.  People in all walks of life use it.   It's easier to let someone down - not so personal.

When we're together, even though sex isn't involved, we have a wonderful time.  If I just live in the moment, I'm good with it.

Be careful not to look at this as an extended period of "living in the moment".  Living in the moment really means that it could be over this afternoon, the day after the tomorrow, the day she comes back. She may even have agreed to tell the other guy that she is going to tell you its over by Mothers Day.

This is not the worst thing in the world - it's casual dating/friendship.  There is a lot of dating in the world where one party is only involved until the person they are looking for is available or interested.

It seems like she is saying she likes you,has affection for you, but not emotionally engaged.

I know her thought process.  She can't think long term.

pwBPD are impulsive and emotionally driven, but not at all incapable of seeing how this plays out.  :)on't underestimate her.

That said, I have to determine what my boundaries are.  Not what it is that  I will *allow* you to do but what it is that I will *allow* to have done to  me that would affect me personally before my boundary is crossed. Do I want  you to have a wonderful time on a cruise some day?  Hell yeah.  I'd love to  be the one that gets to share those first experiences with you.  Is my  boundary of tolerance being crossed if you go with (him) and his family  though?  That's what I have to decide.

This sounds a little like the U.S. State Department telling the Russians to get out of Crimea.  

We don't tell others we have to think what are values / boundaries are.  That in and of itself says they are weak, negotiable.  It will sound to others that you are testing the water to see how they will react.  Probably a tactic to lose.  

And yes, the boundary is still set... . if she goes on the cruise, I am out.  I'm hoping that within the next 2 weeks before the cruise she will make her own decision that going on the cruise for the short term gain is not a good thing for her long term goal of rekindling a r/s with me... . should that be what she wants to do.  And I want her to come to that realization without threat, intimidation or fear of consequence.

This is generally the right thinking.  

There is one serious question to consider though.  

~ Is her quandary you or him?  

~ Or is her quandary, him or not him?  You are the safe friend/diversion to help her be strong in case she needs to step away from him.  Not a rebound - she's being more respectful to everyone in that sense - but in a way, yes, a crutch.

You know more than anyone.  What do you think?

[Perdita]

What say you guys and gals?

In short: it sounds to me like she now has 2 victims. :-( 

Your posts reminds me a bit of my situation except in my case he has a nasty self-absorbed girl on a pedestal and puts her before me any opportunity he gets. They are platonic, but only because he is too shy to do anything and because she knows she already has him under her foot - never mind her thumb - so there is no deed for her to  put out for him as she does with other guys to get $$ out of them. It continues to cause me a great deal of pain. 

I don't know what you can do really.  I can tell you that I have truly tried everything I can think of in my situation.  It took several months before I even realized what was going on, because I thought it was all innocent and I certainly was naive/trusting enough to believe he saw her as a sister.  What a joke!  I tried being caring and understanding.  I tried gently to make him see how she uses him just like she does all the guys.  I've written very long non-confrontational letters telling him how it makes me feel.  More recently I've gotten very angry and told him that I am tired of him valuing and treating a cheap hussy with more respect than he does me.  Has any of it helped?  It's been over a year and things have not gotten better.  In fact, since I realized what was going on they have only gotten worse. I know he would drop me like yesterday's trash if he suddenly became very rich and she would then suddenly "fall" for him... .

What I am trying to tell you, In_n_Out, is that this other guy could well be in your life and in the middle of your relationship for a long time.  I wish I had the answers for you.  Her behaviour is downright disrespectful and she doesn't seem to have any regard for your feelings. :-(  It could also be that this guy isn't as into her as she wants you to believe.  Perhaps he isn't the one crying and begging her to stay.  Perhaps it is her.  Maybe he didn't want her on the trip anymore, but she manipulated him into changing his mind.  One just never really knows with a BPD person.  That's why so many of us here feel like we've had to turn into private detectives in order to get to the truth and hold onto our own sanity. 

I really feel for you.

[Perdita]

The truth is that being in a relationship with an untreated pwBPD is like being trapped in a minefield that stretches to the horizon in all directions.  No matter how gingerly you step, no matter how careful you are sooner or later you are going to be blown up.  And yet, we are so blind to our predicament.  We think that we are almost out of the minefield - if we can just reach that hill, then we will be out of it, if we can just pass that patch of dirt, we will be safe.  And yet that safety never comes.  We never reach our goal, despite our much we keep hoping that it's only a little further.

This is exactly how I see it too.  There will always be something with an untreated BPD person.  The safety may come, but it never lasts long.

[maxsterling]

I want to comment that I really appreciate Skip's very level headed responses.  They help me view my own situation in new ways.  Thank you. 

I/O - I think Skip said it best - you know her better than anyone else on here.  You know her history, what she has done to you or lied about in the past.  You know how she has manipulated you before.  So trust your gut here - do you believe she is sincere in wanting to get back together with your - "someday" as she puts it?  Do you really believe, based upon her past actions, that she truly no longer wants your replacement?  Do you think this whole situation is really just a manipulation to string you along (have her cake and eat it too)?

Many of us on this undecided board are coming from positions of having been extremely hurt.  Our opinions are pessimistic because we don't want to see you get hurt, too.  But we really don't know you, or your ex, we only know the worst that can happen with a BPD r/s, and may assume she is capable of the worst - complete manipulation and hurt directed at you.  Trust your gut here - I think you know deep down what she truly wants from you and what she is capable of.  I know it pains you to think of her on the cruise with another man, no matter what her relationship is like with him ATM.  But do you trust what she is telling you?  Healthy r/s require trust.

I'll ask you this - over the past few months of this situation, have you ever truly and succinctly told her your intentions?  "Babe, I love you, and I want to have a future relationship with you that includes being married and living together for happily ever after."    Not a "I want you if you leave him." Not just beating around the obvious bush.  But an honest declaration of what you want, without conditions or extra words.  I wonder how she would react to hear that?  maybe part of her indecision is because she is not clear exactly what you want?

[In_n_Out]

I'm convinced (for various reasons/actions) that she does want to at least try and get back together some day.  She's hesitant because:

1. Peer pressure from her family and friends to make it work with (him); though she claims she has spoken to her parents about (him) and has told them that she does not love him.  No, she did not mention that I was back in the picture.

2. She doesn't have the strength to finalize it with him and deal with his parents; particularly his mom whom she works with.  She's now looking for a different job to get out of that situation - which is one of the signs that tells me she does want out.

I honestly think that she feels like this she is going to just have fun on the cruise and put her toes in the sand and everybody is going to leave her be and that she can then "deal with this mess" (of his and her r/s as she put it) after the cruise. And that it will be as if me and him are just going nod and say "oh, sure... . I totally understand".