She rang me

[bruised]

I need a little moral support.

My ex-friend rang me. I answered the call. We had a brief discussion which went along the lines that she didn't understand why I had been behaving "strangely" for the last few months. I've been avoiding her, but she didn't directly say that. She always talks in riddles and skirts around the issue. Why not just ask, "why have you been avoiding me?". It's very frustrating.

I simply DO NOT believe she doesn't know. If she really didn't know and was upset, why did she wait months to ring me and ask? Wouldn't you want to know asap? I didn't tell her because I refuse to be drawn into that trap. I know if I had told her she would have trivialised the event and tried to make me look petty.

Is it common for BPDs to pretend they have no idea why you are angry with them? Or are they so ___ed up they really don't know?

I also told her I think I trigger her, so we can't be friends. She ignored this comment. I thought she might say "what do you mean?" or something similar. Either she didn't hear it or she knows more than she is letting on.

I'm proud of myself for standing my ground, but I'm feeling ___ty after the call. I was as nervous as hell during the call and didn't have time to gather my thoughts. I feel like sending her a text to clarify my thoughts, but I don't want to get into a text war with her.

Please tell me what I did right and what I did wrong. Don't sugar coat it. Is there anything else could i have said?  I still have to see this woman socially and I want to make it as painless as possible.

bruised (and now bleeding)

[Banshee]

Is it common for BPDs to pretend they have no idea why you are angry with them? Or are they so ___ed up they really don't know?

I think they enjoy hearing you explain your hurt over and over ... atleast with my ex anyway... I could say I was hurt right after an insult ... he would say for what?

No doubt they like to hear what they are doing to us in detail... kinda sick

[bruised]

I think they enjoy hearing you explain your hurt over and over ...

In that case I'm really glad I didn't take the bait.

[Hurtbeyondrepair27]

Is it common for BPDs to pretend they have no idea why you are angry with them? Or are they so ___ed up they really don't know?

I think they enjoy hearing you explain your hurt over and over ... atleast with my ex anyway... I could say I was hurt right after an insult ... he would say for what?

No doubt they like to hear what they are doing to us in detail... kinda sick

Mine would do that all the time. He would tell me he liked seeing the reaction he got out of people.

He would laugh and get off on it... . then say I needed to understand his sense of humor and take a joke.

Bizarre stuff ppl.

[bruised]

Thanks for the reply. I think my friend is the same. It's a sick game for her.

I was feeling a little guilty after the call, but you've dragged me back into the light. She is toxic. I have to keep reminding myself of this.

I'm Soo glad I stood my ground.

[Hurtbeyondrepair27]

It's almost like a conquest for them I swear dude!

How fast can I make them feel like sh** about themselves...

Or... . man I really have that sort of power over them?

pathetic. sweet.

It's a power trip for them. My ex would always try to make me jealous

of other girls (devaluing my looks)

then be like whaaaat? *with a grin* I wouldn't sleep with you or be with you if I didn't

think you were sexy.

umm at first it was cute like punch him in the arm cute. After awhile... .

Yea... .

[bruised]

It's a power trip for them.

Yep. Now the power has been taken away from her and she doesn't like it.

[patientandclear]

My take is different.  She is asking why you disappeared.  She is a human being who had a close r/ship with you ... . on these boards we are constantly detailing how awful it makes us feel to have no "closure," when our pwBPD disappears without explaining why in a way that makes any sense.

Why would we want to do that to another person?

For various reasons including mental illness, which presumably you believe your friend suffers from which is why you are on this board, people often don't have a lot of insight into their own behaviors and the reactions of others to those behaviors.  How are they ever supposed to gain information and insight if those who are hurt by their behaviors hide the ball and won't explain in response to a fairly direct inquiry?

For other reasons, you may need to shield yourself from this conversation (if you might be terribly injured by what she would say in response to you explaining your departure), in which case, saying politely something like "I understand you want to discuss this; I'm not in a place right now where I can do that without a lot of hurt, but if that changes, I'll let you know. I hope you're OK and I'm sorry things ended like they did."

You can acknowledge her humanity, the reasonableness of her question and that you two used to care a lot about each other, without opening up to a conversation you're not ready for.

Or, if you are ready, you could just answer her question, understanding that pwBPD have a hard time hearing even implied criticism or any account of your hurt.  But if you are able to detach from any reaction she may have, you might consider just answering her question straightforwardly and kindly.

[bruised]

Hi patientandclear,

Thank-you for your response. This is what I sometimes struggle with. How much of her behaviour (if any) was designed to hurt me and how much is out of her control? But, even if it is out of her control, why doesn't she acknowledge it later? 

It's terribly confusing and you've got me thinking I should send her a text to give HER some closure (even if I don't get any).

Kind regards,

bruised

[Narellan]

I think the NC advice is the only way to go. This is months later could she just be attempting a recycling? If my ex called me now I wouldn't answer. I'm sorry but it sounds like baiting to me to draw you in. BPD's don't need closure. You probably just popped into her mind and she called. Apparently they don't spend months pining for us or thinking how we think. I doubt very much she's been ruminating on this the whole time. But that's just my opinion and I'm a tad angry ATM. I think on the hop you handled it pretty well and didn't get too sucked back in. If you follow up with a text tho you will

[bruised]

Too late Narellan! I sent her a text.

I'm not worried about a recycle though. There's no future in our friendship. I told her i was sorry things didn't work out, but her push-pull behaviour makes it very difficult to be her friend. I wished her happiness. She hasn't responded yet, and she may never. I won't be upset if she doesn't. That would just mean we are back to MC which we have been for months anyway. I've said my piece and I feel much better. 

[Narellan]

Haha yep I understand. We are all different. If I'd done that I would now be hanging around my phone checking it constantly wondering why no reply, ruminating possible reasons for no reply, check phone again, reread what I'd sent, does it read ok, making sure phone was charged, maybe I should have worded this/ that differently, maybe I've made him/her angry, thinking about what they're doing, still at work maybe hasn't checked phone, etc etc. it would consume me. Then I'd be wishing I hadn't sent it. Lol.

Are you hoping for a reply or silence? Good luck, let us know how it turns out.

[bruised]

Are you hoping for a reply or silence? Good luck, let us know how it turns out.

I'm hoping for a reply, but I won't be sad if I don't get one.  Like you, I used to hover over my phone waiting for a response. I don't anymore. I really believe I have detached.

I think she would have been happy to receive my message. She may not know what to say, she may need a few days to process it, she may still be pissed/upset after our phone conversation. She may think she has the upper hand because I texted her. Who knows? She is very complicated.  I don't want to lose any sleep over it.

[seeking balance]

Bruised,

I can understand having your emotions all over the place when we are forced to set a boundary with a friend and we are not used to doing something like that.  It can be really confusing when we think we are clear and the other person is either: not hearing us or actively choosing to ignore our request - either way, it is frustrating.

I am a bit confused by what you actually want though - I mean, why did you text her if you really don't want to be friends?  For her to believe what you say - you will have to align your actions and words to stop your part of the push/pull dance.

Keeping it simple and superficial will work if you let it since you say you have to see her socially - I have people I do this with... . there is plenty of pop culture to talk about or suddenly needing a bathroom break in social situations... .

She asked why you were avoiding her and you answered - you texting her after looks a little push/pull from you now from what you wrote.  For now, do nothing - be bland and boring if she contacts you... . anything else sets you up for another round of push/pull.

Does this make sense?

[Narellan]

Just for a moment I'm putting myself in her shoes as the BPD. You pop into my head and I wonder if there's still an attachment there so I call. You answer so that's positive. You don't give away too much but at least you want to talk to me. After 8 months that's good news. Phone call ends I go about my business, not giving it another thought but secretly pleased I haven't lost you for good. Then u text me. So I will feel a bit out of control, this is my game I'm not sure what to do from here. I was just testing the water.

Who knows? I could be right off with this but keep posting because ill be dealing with this soon enough too and want to arm myself with as much info as possible for my next recycle. X

[bruised]

I am a bit confused by what you actually want though - I mean, why did you text her if you really don't want to be friends?  For her to believe what you say - you will have to align your actions and words to stop your part of the push/pull dance.

Hi SB,

the text was only a follow-up to her phone call. The call didn't end well partly because I was caught off guard (I should have let it go to voicemail, although she wouldn't have left a message). I wasn't rude to her, but I wasn't exactly gentle either. I will be sitting at a dinner table with her next week (mutual friends). I didn't want the phone call to be our last communication before we faced each other.

I will be bland and boring for now on. We have had electronic contact only 4 times in the last few months, and on each occasion she initiated it. This was first time I have responded with any "feelings". I'll try to keep a lid on it in future.

[seeking balance]

Hi SB,

the text was only a follow-up to her phone call. The call didn't end well partly because I was caught off guard (I should have let it go to voicemail, although she wouldn't have left a message). I wasn't rude to her, but I wasn't exactly gentle either. I will be sitting at a dinner table with her next week (mutual friends). I didn't want the phone call to be our last communication before we faced each other.

I can appreciate that, honestly.

What did your text say?

This was first time I have responded with any "feelings". I'll try to keep a lid on it in future.

Right now, your feelings are not her concern - her feelings are... . I know that sounds harsh, but if you are trying to pull back, that fact can  help you remember - be bland.

There are some good workshops on the family board that might be applicable for you to learn some strategies - not to participate in necessarily, but learn LC strategies since it sounds you will indeed be in group situations with her.

[bruised]

You answer so that's positive. You don't give away too much but at least you want to talk to me. After 8 months that's good news. Phone call ends I go about my business, not giving it another thought but secretly pleased I haven't lost you for good.

Well, except that I told her I think I trigger her which makes her behave strangely towards me. And for that reason I don't think we could be friends. I meant this- it wasn't something I blurted out and regret saying. I've sort of been rehearsing this line for a while in case she called. So I don't think would have been secretly pleased after the call. 

And, she rang me about something trivial 2 weeks ago and we had a pleasant chat, so she knows I will take her calls.

Thank you all for your thoughts. I really appreciate it. It's so important to have an outsider's perspective.

[bruised]

What did your text say?

I said I was sorry our phone call didn't end nicely. That I was caught off guard and that's why I had offered to call back later when I had gathered my thoughts. That our friendship was hard on me because of her push-pull behaviours. That I cared for her and wanted her to be happy.

I've absolutely no idea how she will take this, but it's the truth.

[Tolou]

bruised

I feel you handled this as well as you could.  You got the call, you said some things, and the whole line about you being a "trigger" was good and honest.  You need to do what's best for your health, and if it ever comes up or you do speak with her... . You can say something along the lines of "I have to do what's best for my health, including staying away from certain things or people that cause me stress"... . you can find you own words for that... . but you did a good job... .

[bruised]

I just re-read my original post. I neglected to mention that her stated reason for calling me was to make sure we were "OK" for the dinner next week. It's a small group and she was worried it might be uncomfortable.

That's odd because, as I said, we had a pleasant chat 2 weeks ago. We've been out together twice since our "breakup" and it was cordial. In fact, the last time we were out she came over to me to thank me for something I had done for her. No dramas at all.

That's why I'm wondering what the real point of the call was.  

[Tolou]

maybe it's best to stop analyzing it so much and just deal with things as they come with her.  If you can be cordial and civil and realize what her triggers are and avoid them, just let it be. If you feel and see that she is beahving a certain way either address it when it comes up appropriately or leave it alone. We can't change anyone, but like a previous post mentioned, I agree, that if someone in truely disordered they need insight, regardless of their reastions to the truth.  Finding the correct way to express it to can be tricky, because all their maturity levels vary.

[bruised]

You got the call, you said some things, and the whole line about you being a "trigger" was good and honest. 

Thanks Tolou,

I think the "trigger" thing needed to be said. It was me saying "I'm bad for you, which in turn makes you bad for me". I really hope I'm right about me triggering her. Because if I'm not, it possibly means she has a nasty streak and enjoys hurting me. I don't want to believe that.  OTOH, maybe she is just so dysregulated, that doesn't know what she's doing?

[Narellan]

I'm really going to watch this space to see the outcome. I've been NC for 8 weeks, and I know sometime hell land in my doorstep. It's happened twice before. He lives nearby. I have nothing to say or hear from him, but if I just shut the door in his face is that going to escalate things? I just want him out of my life for good but I doubt that will happen. Am I better to do what u did and say a few brief words then shut the door ? I'm so easily charmed by gim it's pathetic. I tried to end this once before and ended up in bed with him 3 hours later and then it's all full on again. I can't go there again. But I have to open my door, and one day it will be him. I want to be prepared. NC or a few words to separate for good. Ill check back on here to see how it went.

[bruised]

maybe it's best to stop analyzing it so much and just deal with things as they come with her. 

Yep, VERY good advice! 

[bruised]

Ill check back on here to see how it went.

No response yet. Next contact might be face-to-face next week.

[Tolou]

I think you are the trigger... . But, where you need to get is to place where you can't sit down think about what someone else thinking? That in itself for me, isn't rational, because I have been there.  Especially when someone is trying to speculate how a disordered person is thinking or feeling. Doing what you need to that is best for you, requires no explanation to no one... . If you know your triggers, one which may be her for you and how all this just makes you feel uncomfortable, then it's something that you have work... . If you really think this person is what you say, you just need to keep things brief and cordial, sometimes feeding her with a long spoon is the best thing you can do.  If she does cross boundaries you need to let it be known, communication is key.

[bruised]

Especially when someone is trying to speculate how a disordered person is thinking or feeling.

Yes, I realised a while ago that I was driving myself crazy trying to work out her thought processes. I'm now much better at simply letting it go. This afternoon I caught myself wondering if I had said the wrong thing in my text. Then I pulled myself up. My text was respectful and caring. No rational person would be upset by it. And maybe she isn't upset by it. But if she chooses to put a sinister interpretation on it, well I can't help that.

[Narellan]

Have you thought about how much you've thought about this girl today since the phone call ? not passing any judgement at all because if I broke NC i would be the same . ( read my earlier text re ruminating about texting wrong thing, wondering about why no response blah blah)

I think after all this time, without realising it and without meaning to you have let her back in. I think you had the best intentions, but from an outside point of view, look what's happened to YOU . She's in your head again. But maybe that's what you want I have no idea. I think NC is really hard, but having this in your life ongoing is harder still. My prediction is you will lose sleep over this, but I'm probably just projecting if it was me. 

[bruised]

Hi Narellan,

I have thought about it all afternoon. But you know what? I'm not feeling stressed about it. In the past I would have had a pit in my stomach and the thoughts of her would have been all-consuming. Now it's in my mind, but it's not distracting me from going about my normal routine.

I think I'm just worn out. I've wasted THOUSANDS of hours of my life stressing about this woman. I can't do it any longer. I DO care about her.  I DO want her to be happy as I said in my text to her- but I can't make it happen. I once suggested she see a counsellor when she hinted to me she was depressed. She flatly refused.

No, I don't want her back in my life. And I don't think I have let her back in. She seemed a bit angry when I told her I trigger her into behaving badly towards me. I don't think she saw that coming. In the past I was always very sympathetic when she poured her heart out about her issues. Even when I had heard it ten times before. I think she has a lot of anger simmering below the surface. Today I scratched the surface and a bit of that anger seeped out.

I'll let you know in the morning if I lost any sleep.