As their partner, are we asking too much from them?

[Foreverhopefull]

I was reading a few posts and something comes up ALLOT and I'm wondering if we are the one creating a problem out of ignorance or we just don't get it?

If I learned one thing in 20 years with a BPDh, don't push intimacy (opening up about feelings, sharing tender moments (not talking sex)). It usually a recipe for it to blow in your face.

For example, we say "I love you" and expect the same response from them. My question is why? We know they have issues with understanding their feelings, why do we expect that the most intimate and strongest 3 words in our vocabulary be easy for them to repeat? Why do we set them up for a failure in our eyes? Why do we blame them afterward for failing? Why can't we appreciate the response they feel comfortable giving us? What is wrong with " I don't understand why?"... . Have any of us said "Because you made me smile today when I was having a hard day at work." instead of being upset with his/her response? Why don't we try to remove the pressure of those words? I stopped being upset and listened to his words and his tone, I give him a reason for that declaration of my feelings towards him when he questions my outburst. I explained that for me it's important that I remind him daily that he is truly loved by someone, I don't expect a response but I will continue telling him that I love him until it's no longer true. I now feel free to say it and he doesn't feel the pressure of his response.

Another one is not talking but rather texting and emailing. How many times have the roof over your head has been raised due to a misunderstood text or email? Why do we continue to tell them things this way? Why do we give them hints or coded messages? They don't understand, they get upset and so do we ... . worst part is that a simple message turns into everyone being upset. I know that in my house, texts and emails are kept to a minimum and things like " need anything at the store before I get home?" or " I'll be a little late, lots of traffic"... . we talk to each other. Each time we argue, 99% of the time it's my fault... . I DIDN'T TALK to him, I only hinted what I meant, didn't give specifics of what is expected of him, etc. All in all I didn't talk to him and expect him to read my mind. I still work on this often, but I'm getting better at it.

Are sabotaging our relationships? their progress? Do we not understand how they roll? Do we expect them to roll like us because we love them? Are we too blinded by the "perfect love" scenario in movies and TV shows? Are we expecting more than they can give us?

The moment I started noticing that I might be expecting too much, I tried backing off and noticing more how we interact. What an eye opener.

1) I expected him to know that we can't go nuts with our finances, but never showed him just how much money just wasn't coming in since he's been on disability. It took 3 minutes of us talking for him to understand.

2) I expected "I love you" after my words, got upset with anything else. I listened to his sentiment in his response. It said it all.

3) When he said "I'm not doing good", I would try for hours to understand why, what he wanted me to do and how I can fix it. It took me a while to understand he just wanted me to know that he wasn't ready yet to talk but he wasn't feeling good and didn't want interactions. Now when he tells me this, my response is always " OK. I'm hear if you need me." then I leave him the space he needs.

I'm not perfect and what works for us doesn't work for all, my point is really: " Are we expecting and demanding more than what our partners can give us? By doing so, are we pushing them to failure or taking away the luster of the small victories? Are we helping them as partners or care givers?

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[ziniztar]

I'm not perfect and what works for us doesn't work for all, my point is really: " Are we expecting and demanding more than what our partners can give us? By doing so, are we pushing them to failure or taking away the luster of the small victories? Are we helping them as partners or care givers?

Maybe, yes. I do think that how long people have been dealing with this explains some of the 'immaturity' in dealing with pwBPD. I think everyone starts of expecting a 'normal' relationship - especially when there is no formal diagnosis. Expecting that normal texts don't blow up in our faces is quite normal. Expecting an 'I love you' back is quite normal. Expecting that some insight is there in shared household finnances is quite normal. Wouldn't we be expecting too much of ourself to know all this from the start? Isn't it perfectly human to compare what we see to the 'normal' relationships we've had?

It's the expectation that kills us, I agree. And the more we read and write here, the more we know what is 'normal' for a pwBPD. However, I also think it's very scary and dangerous not to expect anything from a relationships anymore - I wouldn't want that either.

In reply to the question whether we are pushing for their failure: that's really not our responsibility and should not be in the back of our heads. Everyone is trying really hard and if the "normal" things we do cannot be handled by the pwBPD, it is their problem. Where I do side with you is that the maybe somewhat unrealistic expectations we have of relationships in general are at the core of why we fell for the pwBPD in the first place. So yes, this probably is a gathering of people that generally have unrealistic expectations of relationships... isn't that the reason we're here?

[ziniztar]

something is going wrong ... . can someone delete this post? it was unnecessary and I can't delete it

[Foreverhopefull]

I don't feel you fully understand my post.

First, I never said ignorance not immaturity, as in ignorance of what is BPD. I did not mean it as a derogative comment. I meant it as knowing full well we don't and can't know everything because we got a 3 letter diagnostic. It's a very steep learning curve.

In a "normal" relationship these are all expected situations (they can still be problems but at a lesser level than with pwBPD), however why do we keep thinking that our partner with BPD (or we strongly believe they have BPD) can still function at our/that expected level?

That's what I'm asking.

Where I ask about our responsibility and "setting them up for failure" is in regards to our expectations of our BPD relationships. If we know that the last time we tried explaining an issue with our partner via text and it blew up... . why do we continue to text about issues? The same way that if you put your hand on a burning stove you know it burns, would you not stop putting your hand on the stove? If you repeat the action, who's responsible? You or the stove for putting your hand on the hot surface? As for setting them up for failure, we often talk of small victories, but if, for example, I know that pushing my dBPDh to tell me what is wrong after he tells me he's not having a good day will blow up and we will all feel worst and upset about it, but each time he tells me, I continue to push him. By doing so, am I not setting up to feel like he failed? That once again he's not up to my standards?

That's where I ask the question.

I'm very sorry if it offended you, but I strongly feel that for any relationships to survive it takes hard work from both parties, in a BPD relationship, it's even more true from the partner. We can't make them feel better and happy all the time, that's their job, but isn't ours to take into account our actions towards them?

[tired-of-it-all]

I guess we could argue that the BPD cannot help themselves.  That expecting a normal relationship with them is like expecting a blind person to see.  Nevertheless, I am sick of dealing with this issue.  I am sick of not having the minimum things that I think should be in a relationship.  I grieve the loss of a dream.

I don't know if I have addressed your question.  I just know that I am not happy and I am dealing with someone who refuses to get help or admit she has a problem.

[hergestridge]

Another one is not talking but rather texting and emailing. How many times have the roof over your head has been raised due to a misunderstood text or email?

How many times? Zero times actually.

I can't have a normal IRL conversation with my BPDw. She can't seem to get to the point or focus, she gets too emotional or distracted by the setting or the situation.

The only sensible communication I seem to have with her is over text or chat.

[hurthusband]

i dont think we ask too much.  many of us ask for nothing at all.  We have no expectations.

They are angry that we have none cause they then feel worthless.

I know I just ask not to be abused, physically or mentally... .

That isnt met... not alot of physical abuse, but the mental is worse. 

I think we are the sick people too.  Nobody should have to suffer what a BPD does to people and a healthy person would not get into and stay in a relationship with a BPD.  Not that I would ever tell my BPD that, that would be horribly hurtful. 

[tired-of-it-all]

I am sick of having to set boundaries on almost all things.  It is not unreasonable to expect my wife to get the kids to school on time.  It is not unreasonable to expect my wife to take a sick child to the doctor.  Nevertheless, I have had to dig in hard to make these things happen.  Otherwise I am doing everything and she is sitting on her lazy ___ in a nasty house.  This is someone who does not work outside the home. (and doesn't do much inside for that matter).

I met a lady in an alanon meeting once whose husband would get drunk, pass out, and piss all over himself and the sofa.  She was aghast at what she had learned to tolerate.  People should know it is unacceptable to piss themselves and the furniture.

BPD's are similar.  If we don't set the boundaries, the boundary keeps moving the wrong direction sometimes to the bazaar extreme. 

[an0ught]

We all have expectations on our partners - without some expectations there would not be much of a relationship.

A lot of expectations were disappointed badly and we have to examine whether it was our expectation that was unrealistic or there is a problem that needs fixing. Freedom of abuse is certainly a very critical expectation, there obviously the reality needs fixing and a lot of boundary discussions are devoted to this. Nobody here is in favor of enabling abusive, damaging or self damaging behavior. This sort of stuff needs to be tackled first.

Still the question of what our expectations are that needs fixing is a valid and important one. Where expectations and reality are out of sync there is cognitive dissonance and that manifests itself in unease and pain. Pain that can be eased by examining our understanding and re-framing expectations.

Common sources I often see here are

A) Expecting pwBPD are sensitive and care needs to be taken when communicating. Even then expecting them to be always balanced and not overreacting is not realistic e.g.:

1) I expected him to know that we can't go nuts with our finances, but never showed him just how much money just wasn't coming in since he's been on disability. It took 3 minutes of us talking for him to understand.

2) I expected "I love you" after my words, got upset with anything else. I listened to his sentiment in his response. It said it all.

B) Codependent expectations, the whole laundry list e.g.:

3) When he said "I'm not doing good", I would try for hours to understand why, what he wanted me to do and how I can fix it. It took me a while to understand he just wanted me to know that he wasn't ready yet to talk but he wasn't feeling good and didn't want interactions. Now when he tells me this, my response is always " OK. I'm hear if you need me." then I leave him the space he needs.

[hurthusband]

I think in order to help a BPD, you have to perfect yourself to a futher degree than you would have to at any other time. By perfection, I mean that you are making yourself what any psychiatrist would call a healthy mental person.  Mistakes made yes, but mental issues at all, no. Codependency is impossible to have with a BPD and survive

I am totally guilty of that.

Easier to say than do

[Olinda]

I think in order to help a BPD, you have to perfect yourself to a futher degree than you would have to at any other time. By perfection, I mean that you are making yourself what any psychiatrist would call a healthy mental person.  Mistakes made yes, but mental issues at all, no. Codependency is impossible to have with a BPD and survive

I am totally guilty of that.

Easier to say than do

I agree with you 100%, hurthusband.  I feel very co-dependent and as I get stronger and set better boundaries, know myself better, speak up for myself, understand where I end and she begins, things have been getting better.

IT helps to have a partner who is willing to go to therapy also, even though it is not for BPD per se, she is willing to admit she has issues... . Don't we all!

[an0ught]

I think in order to help a BPD, you have to perfect yourself to a futher degree than you would have to at any other time. By perfection, I mean that you are making yourself what any psychiatrist would call a healthy mental person.  Mistakes made yes, but mental issues at all, no. Codependency is impossible to have with a BPD and survive

Good point. It is said that kids are magnification glasses for the faults of their parents. And I guess similar is true for us and pwBPD.

I'm a little bit doubtful at the need for perfection though. Sounds a bit b&w tisch. I'm all for aiming for perfection and maybe I drive here a lot to getting validation and boundaries 100% right. The better we are the better results we get. Learning happens when we push ourselves a little be out of the comfort zone.

But we are only human and have to cut ourselves some slack too. We don't need to be perfect and we can afford more than just mistakes. Everyone has some issues. Awareness of them goes a long way. There are of course some sort of issue that are incompatible with BPD and those need to be overcome

[hurthusband]

The weird part I think is that while many of us have co-dependent issues, the BPD has them too.  In fact, we really are quite independent and having to rely on our ways in many ways.  I would almost say for many of us the only thing the BPD brings to the table that we want is their love which is also something they cannot adequately give.

This is why I almost wonder if being with a BPD at all is a result of codependency.  A BPD really cannot be counted on for anything.  It is not an equal relationship.  They will try to force us into a caretaker role and resent us if we are.  This is not like somebody you marry who gets in an accident and is then dependent on you.  These people are like this from the start.  We should recognize it from the start.  If then we do recognize that they have potential, but are not capable of being equal mates, why would we choose them?  We should be recognizing that before we fall in love with them.  Then assessing that this is not a healthy relationship and thus one that should not be persued.  It is one thing to make the best of a situation, but with no ties to a situation, one should natrually avoid an obviously very risky situation unless they are clouded by their own issues

It makes me wonder if what sucks us into the relationship is our own issues no matter how minor.  At which point we do eventually fall in love, and the only way to make it work is for one of us at least to work on ourselves.

At the same time, I guess we could say that the BPD forces us to be better people than we would have been if we were not with them and with a more stable person.

[ziniztar]

At the same time, I guess we could say that the BPD forces us to be better people than we would have been if we were not with them and with a more stable person.

I like that. I always look at how I can grow from certain events and situations. I know I could have found a stable person and accepted myself for who I was at that moment. But sometimes I hear 'normal' couples fight and I can't help but notice the pattern they're in. And I allmost feel sad, as it potentially will slowly drift them apart in the long-term because they don't (know how to) communicate. That is a false sense of security that I fear a lot.

With my dBPDbf, I'm forced to discuss our core issues, forced to communicate, or else we won't survive. And sometimes I think we understand each other better than other people do. And, more importantly, I understand my own behaviour better than before.

[Blue Tide]

I feel like it is the BPD who is expecting us to be perfect and the fact that this is an unrealistic expectation is part of the problem. I don't think that we should accept that they are not capable of changing and becoming a better person. Surely everyone is capable and should be responsible for making some changes even if they are small ones - even those with BPD. Isn't that part of a relationship? My uBPDh is in complete denial about having BPD but I know that deep down he still strives to be a better person. He's not always capable of if but I know the desire is there.

I agree it's all about communication, learning how to communicate with someone with BPD, learning to understand each other - and what triggers you, what triggers them and hopefully slowly get to a better place. I don't think I could stay in the relationship if I didn't feel there was some effort on his behalf as well as mine. Even though I can't talk to him about BPD and the symptoms/effects/results of that and even though there is no way he will enter therapy it is some hope that I can talk to him about the behaviour and that he needs to change. I don't think we should give up on that.

That said I do feel that it is a huge pressure to have to be the one who is ostensibly 'perfect' and that it is incredibly difficult to have to live a life with someone who won't give you the space to sometimes be less than so. Maybe in the end though if you do achieve it you could end up with a pretty good relationship, maybe it would be better than being in a 'normal' relationship where two people are not forced to work to better themselves and end up bitter and divorced. Could be a blessing in disguise