Can I talk to my wife's Psychiatrist Confidentially?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I received my Health Insurance Statements today and noticed many were listed as services rendered to my wife.  She is on my plan, which is why I received the info.  I doubt she knows I have the info, but it states she is going to a Psychiatrist now.  She'd only gone to therapists prior and they've been no help.  At least I have hope, since he can at least medicate her.  Is it legal for me to call the Psych and is it confidential if I were to give him the info of her rages (Biting me, throwing hot tea on me, doing $1,000 damage to the house, etc) on me (I have documented proof and PD reports), her abandonment issues, insecurities, splitting, etc, as she has never given the truth to the therapists and only blames me for our relationship falling apart.  I want to save my marriage and need to know if I can legally do this, WITHOUT her knowing and WITHOUT winding up arrested... . Thank you!

[kfifd196]

I received my Health Insurance Statements today and noticed many were listed as services rendered to my wife.  She is on my plan, which is why I received the info.  I doubt she knows I have the info, but it states she is going to a Psychiatrist now.  She'd only gone to therapists prior and they've been no help.  At least I have hope, since he can at least medicate her.  Is it legal for me to call the Psych and is it confidential if I were to give him the info of her rages (Biting me, throwing hot tea on me, doing $1,000 damage to the house, etc) on me (I have documented proof and PD reports), her abandonment issues, insecurities, splitting, etc, as she has never given the truth to the therapists and only blames me for our relationship falling apart.  I want to save my marriage and need to know if I can legally do this, WITHOUT her knowing and WITHOUT winding up arrested... . Thank you!

[ForeverDad]

First, medications may moderate her behaviors but meds are no substitute for therapy.  Hopefully the psychiatrist knows that.

Second, do not be surprised if her doctor, therapist, whoever, does not tell her about personality disorders.  They know that Denial is intense with BPD/NPD/HPD patients.  Also most doctors should know that BiPolar may respond to meds because it is a chemical imbalance, but a personality disorder needs focused therapy more than meds.

Third, If you are in the USA then HIPAA privacy laws apply, a spouse even has a right to privacy from the other spouse.  No guarantees, but you're unlikely to get arrested for attempting to share information with her psychiatrist.  However, unless she has signed a waiver, the P can't disclose patient information back to you.  We have no way to know whether the P or his staff will listen to you.  Maybe, maybe not.

"I want to save my marriage."  You've done what you could.  It takes two to make a marriage work.  It's up to her.  Thus far she hasn't responded.  (But she is now seeing a psychiatrist, probably a good thing but it's unknown whether that change will improve things.)  The only thing the courts can guarantee is that you can be a father, of course as long as they don't see you as a risk of committing child abuse, neglect or endangerment.  At some point you will have to start preparing for various options, at the top of the list is how best to remain an involved father.  Obstruction  of our parenting is one of our biggest issues dealt with here.

[livednlearned]

Third, If you are in the USA then HIPAA privacy laws apply, a spouse even has a right to privacy from the other spouse.  No guarantees, but you're unlikely to get arrested for attempting to share information with her psychiatrist.  However, unless she has signed a waiver, the P can't disclose patient information back to you.  

From what I understand, very few HIPAA cases have been tried successfully. A lot of lawyers think that the original intent of the law has been so distorted, and it's sort of a new law, and even egregious cases tend to get so watered down it's hard to tell what that law even protects.

Also, I believe the issue with HIPAA is a psychiatrist sharing patient information with you, not the other way around. You can probably tell the doctor anything you want, and he'll just take notes. During my marriage, I noticed N/BPDx's behavior getting worse. I thought maybe it was adderall. I finally made an appointment to talk about what it was like dealing with N/BPDx and to at least let them know that something was really wrong, potentially linked to the medication (at the time, I didn't realize the extent to which N/BPDx was drinking, he was hiding it so well.). I didn't get to talk to the doctor, only a nurse. I told her my concerns, she took notes, and that was that.

I doubt the psychiatrist would say anything to your wife about the visit, but you might want to be careful about this if divorce is active because it could play out weird in court.

Also, I think this is a sign you're trying to rescue or fix her. That's probably how a psychiatrist is going to interpret you. For all they know, you could be a controlling, domineering, meddling spouse, not a traumatized, worried, doting spouse. It's not normal for spouses to contact psychiatrist's on the sly. Be prepared that they might think you're the one with issues    That's how I felt after contacting the doctor's office.

[Bpdexhusband1978]

I don't want to sound callous,

But protect yourself and document all her attacks and do NOT hesitate to call police on her when she is violent.

You don't want to land yourself a false DV charge.

Even if you restrain her to stop her from hurting you, you may end up behind bars. Violence is no joke, and sadly, men don't get the benefit of the doubt in these cases. So please. Document every single attack. And get to a safe place!

Get the hell out of there until she has a grip on her violence.

It may seem harmless, but it just takes one slip up for someone to end up seriously injured or dead. My ex once tried to push me down a flight of stairs, that could have been the end of me. Another time she was punching me in the face repeatedly as I was driving on the highway. A grabbed her arm to stop her and it left a mark. Second I stopped the car I ran out onto highway almost killing myself, to get away from her. And despite my black eye, fat lip, she still photographed the bruise and threatened to go to police with it. Even showing her partners after me these bruises.

Oddly, early in our relationship I had noticed photos of bruises on her I photo from her previous marriage. Only to find out this guy had her arrested twice. The entire time believing she had been abused.

A few gardening injuries of hers were photographed too. Seemed she was building a fictitious case against me.

There is NO excuse for violence. Get the F out of there until she's under proper treatment. It's not cause you're a man, that you can't be a victim to domestic abuse. There is some good reading on this site about that. Check the safety first guide, too.

I agree that meds are NOT the solution. At all.

DBT.

But first, get to a safe place.

I really hope you find some peace. You deserve it.

Also as I've said in other posts. Get yourself in therapy. You need it after being with someone like that. But mostly you need to find out why you accept this behaviour.

[sanemom]

You should be able to let her psychiatrist know whatever; he/she can't tell you if your wife is a patient without her release, but the psychiatrist can take note and hopefully will use the additional information to help treat her.

[momtara]

Remember, though, her psych. may be contacted someday by your custody evaluator if you ever have a custody battle with her. 

Your intent on sharing the info is that you think the doc will talk her out of her false beliefs about you.  I don't honestly know if there's hope for that.  But you can always try.

He has the right to tell her anything you say; whether he does or not is his decision.

[ForeverDad]

If the behaviors are extreme, there may be some benefit that you contact the office and let them know how to contact you.  If the psychiatrist believes there is some danger to you, you may get a vague heads up to be careful.  A few years ago one of our members got such a call, evidently his spouse or ex-spouse had voiced some endangering comments.

In my case, it was about my then-preschooler.  After we had separated and she had gotten temp custody - and I had the classic father alternate weekends - she registered him at the local quasi-official county children's agency for therapy and services.  I found out some 15 months later she listed me as a 'suspected' child abuser.   But I didn't even find out about the counseling until our insurance sent a re-certification of services three months later to the home address where I lived with a temporary protection order for my benefit.  A therapist and a manger agreed to meet me.  I wrote a very thoughtfully written letter without accusations but offering to support and share what I knew.  It was a very cold meeting, they listened but revealed next to nothing and followed up on nothing of my offer to share background information.  All they did was inform me I could file for son's Protected Health Information (PHI).  I did that at least two or three times but got form denial letters checking the box that I was likely to be a danger to the life or safety of the patient or others.   It took another year and a court order to get them released.  For whatever reason, my initial letter was not in the records provided and there was no comment in the records of that meeting with them.  But my point is that they did agree to a one-way conversation, to listen.  Not optimal, but something.

[PleaseValidate]

Yes, it is legal for you to GIVE info without a release signed.

It is not legal to RECEIVE info without the patient signing a release.

A good doc will probably confront her w anything you allege. A bad doc will probably coddle her and/or "take her side" so that she continues to see him. (You see this the most in private practice. )

Know that Bipolar is often diagnosed as the primary disorder due to BPD not being taken as seriously by and/or granted as many sessions by insurance companies. (My mother is an obvious raging borderline to any mental health worker, yet the one time she was hospitalized due to attention seeking suicide threats,  the hospital dx her as bi-polar.)

The doc is responsible by law to report any suspected abuse or neglect of children to your state's child protection services dept. This includes any info you relay to the doc if applicable.

Start w a phone call. If you want to make sure your concern is taken seriously and there is a concrete record of it, send a certified letter, perhaps a summary of what you discussed and when.



(And im not sure but what the insurance company did in giving you any info re her health seems illegal in my understanding of HIPPA, even if you are the primary subscriber.)

[kfifd196]

The insurance statements don't say WHAT she is being treated for, but has the Psychiatrist's name on them.  I want to call him and fill him in, because we've gone before, to therapy together and she lied and blamed it ALL on me, even though, at home she would confide in me and apologize for her trust issues, abandonment & insecurities hurting our relationship!

How can I be 100% certain, that he won't tell her I talked to him?  If he does, I can get arrested, due to her False Restraining order.  She's filed them against other boyfriends and 1 of them reached out to me and told me she did the same thing to her!  I know she's filed against 2 other boyfriends in the past and I think she does it so "WE" can't let her "secret" out and she makes "US" look like the problem.  She goes into frequent rages, is treating me as if I destroyed her life or something and has created MySpace and Facebook Pages Slandering other boyfriends.  One even abandoned her, because he probably couldn't take her madness!

I can't take much more of her false accusations, threats of Restraining orders and slanderous actions.  She has devalued me to everyone and someone needs to treat her.  We have a 1 year old daughter and I don't want her turning out like her mother!

Is there a way I can tell the Psych, in confidence?  Once he hears\sees all of the emails & evidence, he will see she's BPD!

[ForeverDad]

If you have an RO filed against you then I'd advise you to get legal advice before contacting the P.  You definite do NOT want to violate an RO.  How long is the RO?  Is it just temporary until more information is presented in court?  Then read this next paragraph and it should help the judge decide what to do... .

I would get copies of all the RO's she's gotten against her prior BFs and then present them in court to demonstrate she's either abusing the system or she has the worst odds and keeps making bad choices.  If you need to, hire a PI to seek out as many court actions as possible.  With that many that you know of, there might be more in all the places she's lived, gone to school or worked.  This documented list might identify a pattern to the court and might mean a lot.

It is typical that pwBPD paint all former relationships as abusive ones, they simply cannot accept the 'blame' for the relationships' failures.

[PleaseValidate]

"How can I be 100% certain, that he won't tell her I talked to him?"

You can't be. He has that right even if you ask him not to. It all depends on the psychiatrist.

[livednlearned]

It's common in the beginning of divorce/custody cases that we want everyone to know "the real truth" about who is causing the problems. We want the other lawyer to "get it" and we want the judge to "get it" and everyone our spouses have ever deceived.

In general, at this point, the only person who matters is the judge.

If you file for divorce, you can ask for discovery and subpoena the psychiatric records to find out what she's being treated for. If you start meddling and feeding information to the doctor, then you only make it difficult for yourself if those records are important pieces of discovery for your case. Anything you request through discovery will be shared with both lawyers.

You have to use everything you can to portray a compelling story about your wife's problems. A pattern of ROs is a data point. Your wife's psychiatric visit might be another data point. If you do a deposition and she lies, and your lawyer later finds she lies under oath, that's another data point.

Your job is to collect as many data points as possible and put them before the judge. The psychiatrist is not significant at this point if you're planning on moving this show to court. If you're planning on staying in the relationship and want to "save" your wife, even after she has made a false allegation against you, then keep in mind that's a different plan of action that can sabotage your legal strategy.

[Forestaken]

I can't take much more of her false accusations, threats of Restraining orders and slanderous actions.  She has devalued me to everyone and someone needs to treat her.  We have a 1 year old daughter and I don't want her turning out like her mother!

Is there a way I can tell the Psych, in confidence?  Once he hears\sees all of the emails & evidence, he will see she's BPD!

What if she falsely told her Psych that you were "controlling"?  When you call, you'll confirm that.

[ForeverDad]

I can't take much more of her false accusations, threats of Restraining orders and slanderous actions.  She has devalued me to everyone and someone needs to treat her... .

Is there a way I can tell the Psych, in confidence?  Once he hears\sees all of the emails & evidence, he will see she's BPD!

What if she falsely told her Psych that you were "controlling"?  When you call, you'll confirm that.

Also, let me relate something that happened with me so you won't be caught off guard by trick questions and tripped up by your normal feelings which can easily be used against you.  When my then-separated spouse and I were in court with allegations against each other, her lawyer asked me, ":)o you want her back?"  I was aware that he had just asked me my weight compared to hers, alluding that a weight difference ought to make her fearful of me, I knew he was angling to paint me as a controller who wanted his target back under his control.  So I answered, "Not the way she is."

You will find many nuggets of wisdom here.  Sadly, sometimes we didn't think of them until afterward when our golden opportunity was past.  Here is one possible response to be prepared to use in case your spouse ever alleges she's fearful of you because you're much larger than she is... .

... . in court during mutual protection cases, when I testified about her actions and her threats, her attorney asked me if I weighed more than her (of course) wanted to divorce (of course not) then he said I must want to control her.  Huh?  How could he ever say that of me?  I just said no.  I should have replied (remember this, guys, in your own testimonies and cross-examinations) our child is smaller than both of us, should our child fear us because we're bigger?  Anyway, he then asked if I wanted her back home that night, I guess still pursuing that 'controlling husband' strategy.  Fortunately, I said, No, not the way she is.

I'm not saying you can't seek solutions other than divorce but be very, very careful.  Your good intentions can be mischaracterized and be used to paint the wrong picture of you.

If she is unwilling to seek counseling or therapy then you have to make your decisions based on that refusal... .

Understand that few if any of the professionals will try to get her to change.  Most deal with people as they are.  So you have to do likewise.  Don't expect her to improve, deal with what IS.  If she is not seen as abusive - and few are since most of their poor adult behaviors are either directed at the spouse and mostly ignored or the poor parenting behaviors are not seen as rising to the level of being 'actionable' - then you need to strategize well to get and keep every advantage in parenting that you can.

You will have to navigate the chaos, delays and obstructions in the months to come.  You have to be as prepared and firm as you can be in order to stand up to the intense emotional barrage you'll face from her in mediation and divorce.  For example, the mediator will likely look to find a way get a deal between you two, getting the best results for the children may get lost in the shuffle.  You're the only one you can count on to speak up for the children.  So whenever there are issues she won't budge on, let the mediator know that you feel differently and state that your position is what's best for the children.  Hopefully your mediator will be experienced enough to try to work with you despite your spouse's obstructions, distortions and baseless but hugely emotional claims.

I don't want to paint such a picture of your situation, but it's one you need to weigh when determining how much applies in your case.  Maybe she will change, no one knows for sure but you have to be prepared if things continue downhill.  I know you want to stay in rescuer mode but that may be the wrong hat to wear after allegations have been made and divorce filed.  A firefighter doesn't wear a baseball hat to a fire.  This separation and impending divorce means you shouldn't be wearing just a rescuer hat, though you're welcome to keep it handy in a pocket in case the opportunity arises.  Sorry, that's how I see it.

For self protection I'd recommend you keep safe the documentation where she apologizes, for all you know you may need some of it to protect yourself from future allegations.  This may seem unfair but frankly she's not being fair and you need everything you can get to protect yourself and your future years of parenting.  Remember, this isn't just about her, it's also about your parenting, your child and her future.

We have a 1 year old daughter and I don't want her turning out like her mother!

And so you need to follow, more or less, the time-tested solutions described here and seen in numerous family court cases.

You need to set firm boundaries of which behavior you will allow that is within your control, such as on your parenting time.  Divorce is the typical outcome since you can't have a stable and calm home with a ranting and raging spouse around.  By establishing your own home where all the positives of a reasonably normal home life are the norm, you'll be able to (mostly) offset the damage and chaos in the part of your daughter's life when she is with her mother.  As sad as divorce is, one positive outcome is that you can set a good example for your daughter of what a normal family is and does, well, for at least part of her life when with you.  If you had not stepped forward then you would be setting a poor example as an appeaser or enabler and then your daughter wouldn't have experienced what normalcy is.

I'm not saying your spouse can't change - if she does then great - but you can't count on it.  Odds are that your spouse can't fool everyone for very long, the blaming and blame-shifting work for a while but eventually most of the professionals will figure out the real story, that you really aren't worse than her.  The key is that you need to protect yourself at the beginning with strategies and documentation until they do figure out that you're not Mr Evil Personified.