Examples of Boundaries

[Depression = 72% of members]

My uBPDh causes all sorts of issues with my daughter -  he gets angry and he pushes buttons until it's a big fight and then I step in because it goes too far and it only escalates from there.  Not physically, but it just gets out of hand.  Also, when he is angry he says all sorts of things that cause detachment and destroy intimacy.  I need some examples of setting boundaries when it's my daughter and she cannot walk away from him.  I also need other examples of boundary setting when I cannot leave because I have children in the house.  I'm ready to learn and set them but feel really lost about how to go about it.  Any suggestions or examples you can give will be greatly appreciated!  Thank you! 

[Livestrong97]

My uBPDh causes all sorts of issues with my daughter -  he gets angry and he pushes buttons until it's a big fight and then I step in because it goes too far and it only escalates from there.  Not physically, but it just gets out of hand.  Also, when he is angry he says all sorts of things that cause detachment and destroy intimacy.  I need some examples of setting boundaries when it's my daughter and she cannot walk away from him.  I also need other examples of boundary setting when I cannot leave because I have children in the house.  I'm ready to learn and set them but feel really lost about how to go about it.  Any suggestions or examples you can give will be greatly appreciated!  Thank you! 

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[tired-of-it-all]

You certainly have to take care of your daughter; however, some of the time you should take care of you. If you don't get better your daughter doesn't stand a chance. It is like the safety instructions on an airplane. We have to put on our own oxygen mask before we can help our child. Start to do good things for youself. Your daughter will see this and follow your example. Try to set boundaries between you and your husband. You child will follow suit.

[bpbreakout]

How old is she ? What are the fights about ?

If there is a heated situation brewing she should be able to go to her bedroom and cool off in private, though I'm sure hubby would follow her & bang on the door if he's out of control.

It will depend on the situation but there may be times where it's best not to step in as I'm pretty sure every time you do step in pwBPD will find a way of blaming you for the situation & not supporting his "parenting" . Also possible that child could be relying on you to rescue which may not be ideal in the long run though per above I'm not sure how old your daughter is. Whatever the case it's going to be better for her if she learns ways of coping with her father than not.

My d15 has been in therapy on and off for 5-6 years, it's really helpfulto have this on hand when things are bad.

[Grey Kitty]

More specific situations and circumstances will help us give better advice for you.

In general, the personal boundary for verbal abuse goes like this:

I will not stay with you and be subjected to verbal abuse. When it starts, I will remove myself from your company. (leave the room, hang up the phone, leave the house, whatever is appropriate and needed.)

If there are children who are subject to verbal abuse, the boundary solution is to remove the children from the situation. Techniques would depend on the age and personality of the child.

[Livestrong97]

Thank you all so much for the help and advice.  I have 3 children, 15 - 15 and 12.  Daughter 15 is often the target - she has the most challenging personality for uBPDh.  Many times h doesn't understand her or interprets her inaccurately.  He either seems to say things that trigger her and things escalate or he flat out picks on her. Other times she is being a typical teen and talking back.  Since my h denies he has any issue, I am not in a position to tell my daughter that he is BPD.  I do say that "dad handles things differently... . "  And I tell her when I think dad was wrong.  I've always tried to demonstrate boundaries with words in front of the kids (which honestly may be one reason she stands up to him and talks back) which call it good or bad - I feel if my h talks disrespectfully to me in front of them I speak up so as not to show them I am a wilting flower running to the corner.  I have always called a spade a spade in front of the kids.  This as you can imagine creates a whole new problem in our relationship - to my h, it's "disrespectful" and we get into a huge fight.  The whole thing is unhealthy.  I cannot talk out any problem with him.  If I wait to discuss it later, that too turns into an argument.

Here is an example:  At the dinner table.  d says something that might trigger h and he replies with a tone.  The "tone" offends d, she takes it personally and retorts.  h has just been challenged and he begins talking louder and gets angry demanding attention.  d starts crying or defending herself and h slams hand on table and is now yelling louder.  Once he crosses the line, upsetting the entire table, I step in and say his name (hoping to make him see he needs to calm down).  Never works.  I then might say something to back him and d.  h looks at me, points a finger and says "shut up."  I then state, "don't talk to me like that - he yells a d more and when she tries to leave he makes her stay and listen to his rant which often includes blaming her for the entire situation.  I'm now furious and he and I are now angry with one another for approx 2 weeks and resentment builds.  This happens again and again and again.   I've talked to my d and asked her to not say anything when he starts but a.) it doesn't work and b.) it's teaching her to take abuse. 

[Grey Kitty]

Hmmmm... . is there a way you could take D15 and leave the dinner table when your H "crosses the line"?

I've found that setting boundaries at an earlier point in the escalation makes it easier to enforce them with less drastic actions. Perhaps you should consider moving your "line" to a slightly earlier/milder point in the interchange?

I think you have figured out by now that you can't talk him down (or shout him down) at that point. By then, you cannot make things better this way--all you can do is make the blowup bigger by letting it involve more people.

[bpbreakout]

Livestrong we are living in a parrallel universe. Oh how I wish family dinners could be quality time !

I'm sorry I haven't got the answers but on a similar note we sat down to dinner a few days ago when not known to me there had been an incident of "rudeness" from d15 earlier in the day. Things were a little tense to start with and then BPDw asked what we thought of the dinner she had cooked to which we all said we though it was very nice. BPDw then immediately started ranting at d15 complaining about her behaviour and how rude she is & took us all by surprise. I have got to the point wher I am utterly sick of this happenning every time we have a family dinner so I told BPDw to leave d15 alone, I was a bit tense but not angry but as you would expect BPDw started escalating so I told d15 she could have supper in her room if she wanted. This was followed by getting on for an hour of raging (luckily I had played over 45's soccer that afternoon so endorphins kept me reasonably calm). This is actually the first time I have openly "defied" BPDw in this situation & in her eyes this is a total betrayal the marriage is over. I actually do feel for BPDw as in a lot of ways she has isolated herself but I can't see how you can be married to someone if you are not allowed to speak up and say hold on I think you are going to far with d15.  I think the good thing about it is that d15 had an escape route as in the past she has reacted very badly in the past to BPDw's behaviour, she has to learn to walk away from these situations when she grows up. I also don't think family dinners are the right place to be venting your greivances though I'm sure every family BPD or not has issues over dinner tables. This was the day before Mother's Day and to both kid's credit they had got BPDw presents and we all went out for afternoon tea though I had had to cancel a Yum Cha lunch because BPDw was so angry with D15.

As I said I'm not sure what the answers are with this situation but I'm just having to live from day to day at the moment and strongly feeling like I have to make some boundaries for the future.

[tired-of-it-all]

Like many BPD's, my wife lies.  Tonight I found my special needs child's ear drops in one of the cars.  I brought it to my wife.  No issue just got it out of the car and gave it to her.  She goes into the "where did these come from"  bulls**t.  I told her the car.  "Where did they come from?"  I told her I guess they were from when you took our son to the doctor.  She goes into denial.  A big act to cover up that she forgot and left them in the car.  I was not mad or accusing her of anything. 

My boundary is that I don't tolerate the lies and bulls**t behavior.  I final said, "Bulls**t.  You know d**ned well you got these for him when you took him to the doctor."  I no longer tolerate her lies.  I don't get mad or try to make her admit she is lying but I call her out when she does it.  It has significantly reduced her lying.

[aspiegirl23]

I have no advice, but I am in similar situation. I don't want my 9yo boy to witness me "taking" verbal abuse and I don't want him to have to take it either. It is difficult for us to relocate to a different space because our house isn't that big plus I have a 4 month old to look after and we kind of use the whole house. Often it occurs in the car, too, and we can't leave that space. Leaving the house to go somewhere ALWAYS triggers my BPDh no matter if we are on time or not and I am so over it! He is SO rude to us. He seems to expect my 9yo to be a perfectly acting adult, too. He just can't compute that he is still developing and learning and that WE are meant to TEACH him how to be, not just expect it.

I also don't want my 9yo to believe the lies that my BPDh says about me and grow up believing this stuff about his mum. I will NOT tolerate that. It is so hard when you want it all to work.

Maybe we need to create an alternate room in the house somehow that we can retreat to when BPDh is dysregulated. Maybe you could do the same?

I am also contemplating explaining to my 9yo what BPD is and how it affects my BPDh and what the lessons are. Maybe if we both work on the lessons together it might help. Maybe another thing you could try with your daughter? You would have more success perhaps in your situation due to her age as she will have greater understanding.

[Livestrong97]

Yes, parallel lives.  Thanks all and thankful for this site.

aspiegirl23, it's so hard, isn't it?  I have wanted to tell my daughter about BPD, but she can sometimes be so honest - I'm not sure she is old enough even at 15, because at some point in an argument with her dad I'm afraid she would blurt it.  That doesn't mean you shouldn't share with your son - I think we have to consider the child's personality and each situation. 

I did tell my husband that "I wanted to change."  I shared that I understood that when our arguments cause me to shut down and not talk to him was just as unhealthy as his negative (verbal abuse) talk.  I stated firmly that from this point forward he was allowed to be angry, but we (the rest of the family) had just as much right not to have to take it.  I stated that I would be walking away and that our children had the same right to go to their room to cool off and discuss later.  I had the same discussion with my daughter.  Well, guess what?  He thanked me.  That lifted the cloud of this argument however, the real truth will be told as to how this works when the next storm hits.  I'll keep you posted. 

[Grey Kitty]

Do let us know how it goes. Here's hoping for good results!

I stated firmly that from this point forward he was allowed to be angry, but we (the rest of the family) had just as much right not to have to take it.

A thought for you, and a distinction I draw in this situation.

He has every right to FEEL angry, or BE angry. (And so does everybody else!)

How he expresses his anger is another issue. He doesn't have the right to be abusive, verbally, emotionally, or physically to anybody else when he is angry.

You next point is spot-on! You and the rest of your family have the right to leave and not hear it from him.

[Livestrong97]

Excellent Grey Kitty, you are right!  I will continue to state that as well.  He denies that's what he's doing and he HATES me to say it is verbal abuse because to him it so acceptable (and what he grew up with) which makes it worse.  Regardless, I will keep stating that especially so that my children understand it.  Thank you for the support.

[Grey Kitty]

 

Remember... . you do not need to convince him that it is verbal abuse. That is just another argument you want to avoid.

You can use another name for it, or not even bother saying what he is doing wrong.

All you need to do is make your actions clear--you will not be subjected to it, and your children will not either.

[arjay]

I'm ready to learn and set them but feel really lost about how to go about it.  Any suggestions or examples you can give will be greatly appreciated!  Thank you! 

I would highly recommend the book "Boundaries" by Cloud & Townsend.  My 'T' gave it to me to read and it was life-changing.  It took a lot of practice to integrate fully into my life and I am still really, really learning to do so in a healthy non-confrontational way.  It really does take practice.  There is book for boundaries with kids too.  I read it and use the lessons in raising my daughter.  I can't begin to say how helpful it was.  My daughter is learning them too, something we rarely teach because "nobody taught us" 

Peace to you