NC makes me feel panicky 100% of the time. Is this normal?

[strangerinparadise]

Hello Ladies and Gentlemen. I have been lurking on this board but haven't been able to respond to a post or problem as succinctly as other posters. So I've remained quiet which means I feel a little selfish for posting my problem here but I'm starting to have really bad panic attacks and am thinking of breaking NC.

This all started when uBPDM called and asked me to come up to their house (6 hrs away) and clean her house for her as she was preparing for a pottery show in her house. I declined because I was her house cleaning um... . not the b-word... . more like house elf? (Sorry) all of my life until I left home at the late age of 27. She was never nice about it and always spoke to me like I was a piece of trash, even when I would do things to help without being asked to. She even tried that the last time we visited which left with me leaving their house early.

After saying no I received multiple texts saying: "I don't mean to upset you but I need to tell you how hurt I am that you and Mr. strangerinparadise don't want us around especially when we are only 6 hours away. Love you." Then another "Love you Mom."

My response was "We still need boundaries set. Love you too. I'm turning my phone off for today."

Her response the day after was "Healthy boundaries with my only child. Do I need to come down to your shrink with you or by myself. Whatever you need so that we can be close again I will do."

After that it has been non-stop texts until I blocked her number. That is, until my Flying Monkey Grandma(great band name) cajoled me. It's difficult because I love my Grandma so much but she is such an enabler. My Father is trying his armchair psychotherapy to get me to change my mind, but seeing as he doesn't have BPD shouldn't he realize that it's not rejection of family, just me refusing a favor? Where is his mind at?


So, me not traveling 6 hours to be her b*tch(pardon my French!) means I want nothing to do with my family. I'm also breaking all of the holiday visitation rules so my husband and I can enjoy our marriage and our holidays together with people who will treat us with respect and love.

I started doing LC then NC. uBPDM finally asked my husband is boycotting me, which he is ignoring.

Okay this is a long post and I'm sorry about that. I just want to know why my father is drinking the crazy kool aid and why I feel so hopeless? It's odd. This is supposed to be empowering but all I feel is scared, helpless, and anxious? I want to point out to him the lack of logic but I'm not sure if I should even bother now.

If you read this whole thing, Thank you. Hope your day is a happy one.

~strangerinparadise

[BreatheDeep]

My mom is a Narcissist and has some BPD and your quotes of  your mom's texts sound just like something mine would say!

When I read the part about her wanting to see your shrink, it gave ME anxiety! I'm not kidding, it sounded to me like a threat. No wonder you are feeling anxious!

It sounds like your boundaries are very reasonable and make sense to me. I've never heard of a whole family that has recognized manipulation at the same. There is always one of us that sees it first.

I'm sorry you are having panic attacks, they are the worst! Over the years I've learned a lot of helpful tricks that help me with anxiety. Meditation, deep breathing, relaxing hobby, walking the dog, gentle pilates and yoga, small regular high protein meals, and last but not least Valium.

Good luck with your struggle and btw, I thought your post was very succinct and well written.

[AsianSon]

Hi strangerinparadise,

You are not alone!  Other than the NC part, your description fits my relationship with my BPDm and father.  (And please don't be self-conscious about your post, which is clear and reasonable. 

I know that panic attacks are terrible, and I suffer from anxiety and dread as well.  I agree with BreatheDeep that you should look into techniques that help you with your feelings. 

It seems that the decision to go NC was recent?  If so, perhaps one question is how permanent the choice will be.  I think it is fine if it is temporary, sort of as a consequence to enforce how you respond to certain behaviors from your mom.  It is also fine if it is permanent.  But in either case, there may be a need to communicate your position/boundary to them.  Otherwise, I suspect she (they?)will  "spin" the situation based only on made up reasons and motivations (on your part). 

After that it has been non-stop texts until I blocked her number. That is, until my Flying Monkey Grandma(great band name) cajoled me. It's difficult because I love my Grandma so much but she is such an enabler. My Father is trying his armchair psychotherapy to get me to change my mind, but seeing as he doesn't have BPD shouldn't he realize that it's not rejection of family, just me refusing a favor? Where is his mind at?

... .

Okay this is a long post and I'm sorry about that. I just want to know why my father is drinking the crazy kool aid and why I feel so hopeless? It's odd. This is supposed to be empowering but all I feel is scared, helpless, and anxious? I want to point out to him the lack of logic but I'm not sure if I should even bother now.

With respect to your Grandma and Father, perhaps they only see the need to pacify your mother to have "peace" or "stability."  They probably do not recognize that it is not the same as harmony.  I think this is true for my father. 

For harmony, I believe each person needs to be respected and recognized as an individual with your own situation and decisions on how to handle yourself and your life: 

I'm also breaking all of the holiday visitation rules so my husband and I can enjoy our marriage and our holidays together with people who will treat us with respect and love.

For me, boundaries fit with the idea of "individuating" or "individualizing" myself and my own family apart from my BPDm's ideas and demands.  This is something that a pwBPD doesn't understand (like your mom's texts about how boundaries don't make sense to her and how she can clear it up with your T).  So while I cannot change my mom's behaviors or views, I can control my reaction and responses to them.

I have been focusing on using SET because it seems to work (so far better than other things).  I can also include boundaries and consequences in it to cut down on my BPDm's spin on the relationship. 

I hope at least some of the above helps.  Please remember to take care of yourself and that you are stronger than you think. 

A

[StarStruck]

When I read the part about her wanting to see your shrink, it gave ME anxiety! I'm not kidding, it sounded to me like a threat. No wonder you are feeling anxious!

Hi strangerinparadise,

I agree with everything that BreatheDeep has written including this quote and to me also sounded threatening.

I'm unsure whether having more contact with her because of this incident is going to help how you feel long term and a chance it may 'set you up' for more of the same. I can understand why you want the anxiety to stop though.

Appreciate how complex it is to have the other members to manage and sounds like you've have done a fine job orchestrating the NC that you needed in the first instance. Take some more time before bending to her will yet, then see how you feel.

If my BPD 'cheated the rules'... . after a good think, I'm sure I would instill my NC boundaries back, just what I would need to do, each of our situations is understandably different.

How long have you been NC?

Don't feel bad for posting, we all muck in, just as you have before  

BreatheDeep -

I've never heard of a whole family that has recognized manipulation at the same. There is always one of us that sees it first.

Yes that was me too    

P.S Totally support AsianSon's post too - we were posting at the same time, only just read it

[Lise]

The situation you're in sounds absolutely horrifying, no wonder you are feeling panic.

I do not know, if this is the situation with your family, but if your upbringing was anything like mine, it makes perfect sense that even the thought of NC results in overwhelming panic attacks. If you're brought up to believe that there exists such things as absolute right and wrong, as well as conditions for love and affection, and that your parents are the only ones who determine what's right, what's wrong, who deserves love, and who deserves exclusion. Then you'll soon learn to pay close attention to even subtle sign that you are at risk of being assessed as wrong and being rejected. If you think that everyone else agrees with the image of the world that your parents hold, it's not only their anger, you expose yourself to, but more or less your own destruction.

In that case, the anxiety and panic are strategies learned early on to help you stay on the right path, and therefore believed vital for your survival ... . but that doesn't mean that they are still helpful to you.

I don't know how long the panic will stay with you, I hope you'll find that it subsides gradually as time goes by. As several other's have suggested, you might find that working with techniques for relaxation, mindfulness, and acceptance can help you. But you are battling responses that have been learned over and over for many years, they won't yield easily, even if you now know that you parents possess no real threat to you.

I've been NC for 15 months now, the panic's still there, but it's much less, and I don't get overwhelmed (as much) as I used to. I don't know if it'll ever go completely away. I sort of think that it won't, but now I can find room for being grateful that I valued myself highly enough to choose my own wellbeing in spite of the anxiety NC caused me.

I hope you'll find the strength to do whatever you choose to be the right course of action for you. I know you have the courage, that's clearly demonstrated in your ability to dare setting boundaries, and sticking to them as best you can. 

[strangerinparadise]

Thank you Thank you Thank you for your replies.

Good luck with your struggle and btw, I thought your post was very succinct and well written.~BeatheDeep

Thank you very much. The part of wanting to see my therapist irked me as it seemed like she was putting the blame all on me. Not like she hasn't done that before 

It seems that the decision to go NC was recent?  If so, perhaps one question is how permanent the choice will be.  I think it is fine if it is temporary,

sort of as a consequence to enforce how you respond to certain behaviors from your mom. It is also fine if it is permanent.  But in either case, there may be a need to communicate your position/boundary to them. Otherwise, I suspect she (they?)will  "spin" the situation based only on made up reasons and motivations (on your part).  ~AsianSon

It was a month and a half ago when it happened. You and BreatheDeep are correct, I should make sure they know my reasons and position. The only problem is that I think it won't matter. She's going to interpret it as she wishes and my Dad will just play along. Such a sad feeling.

I have been focusing on using SET because it seems to work (so far better than other things).  I can also include boundaries and consequences in it to cut down on my BPDm's spin on the relationship.

I hope at least some of the above helps.  Please remember to take care of yourself and that you are stronger than you think. ~AsianSon

Thank you for showing me a resource in dealing with this. I will definitely look them up. Thank you also for the kind words.

If my BPD 'cheated the rules'... . after a good think, I'm sure I would instill my NC boundaries back, just what I would need to do, each of our situations is understandably different.

~StarStruck

When you re-instill your NC boundaries, do you first send them notice? Or would explaining the reasons for NC lead to your BPD having blackmail material?

I do not know, if this is the situation with your family, but if your upbringing was anything like mine, it makes perfect sense that even the thought of NC results in overwhelming panic attacks. If you're brought up to believe that there exists such things as absolute right and wrong, as well as conditions for love and affection, and that your parents are the only ones who determine what's right, what's wrong, who deserves love, and who deserves exclusion. Then you'll soon learn to pay close attention to even subtle sign that you are at risk of being assessed as wrong and being rejected. If you think that everyone else agrees with the image of the world that your parents hold, it's not only their anger, you expose yourself to, but more or less your own destruction.

In that case, the anxiety and panic are strategies learned early on to help you stay on the right path, and therefore believed vital for your survival ... . but that doesn't mean that they are still helpful to you.

~Lise

Lise, I couldn't have put it any better. My therapist did try to get me to focus on why I have these fears and anxiety. Still, what you've written just went right to my core.

I've been NC for 15 months now, the panic's still there, but it's much less, and I don't get overwhelmed (as much) as I used to. I don't know if it'll ever go completely away. I sort of think that it won't, but now I can find room for being grateful that I valued myself highly enough to choose my own wellbeing in spite of the anxiety NC caused me.

I hope you'll find the strength to do whatever you choose to be the right course of action for you. I know you have the courage, that's clearly demonstrated in your ability to dare setting boundaries, and sticking to them as best you can.  smiley

~Lise

Thank you so much. It is a relief to hear from others on how they survived. 

Thank you all for your help. I feel better about this situation. I will probably send an email describing the NC and mention the fact that this all escalated from a simple refusal to drive 6 hours to clean someone's house. 

Hope you all have a wonderful weekend.

[AsianSon]

I will probably send an email describing the NC and mention the fact that this all escalated from a simple refusal to drive 6 hours to clean someone's house. 

This may be my situation, but explaining details seems to backfire with my BPDm.  It seems to reduce (not eliminate) BPD behaviors/reactions if I frame things in the "I will" and "I won't" sense, which can fit into the Truth part of SET. 

I'm guessing from personal experience here:  the details of the request to clean house (and need for a 12 hour roundtrip drive) might not matter to your mother because to her, she views "as fact" her feeling/conclusion that you are "not as close to her" (or don't care about her) as she wants/demands/needs.  She may view your boundaries as additional "facts" to support her conclusion. 

The Support and Empathy parts of SET might help respond to her conclusions and set the stage for your NC Truth. 

Wishing you peace,

A

[Lise]

This may be my situation, but explaining details seems to backfire with my BPDm.  It seems to reduce (not eliminate) BPD behaviors/reactions if I frame things in the "I will" and "I won't" sense 

I agree with AsianSon on this one ... . I'd suggest you simply just state what you will or will not tolerate, not trying to explain or reason - you can't control how they'll react anyway.


And thank you for your response to my previous post, I'm glad to hear it was helpful to you.

[StarStruck]

Hi strangerinparadise - only just noticed this sorry... .

Thank you Thank you Thank you for your replies.

If my BPD 'cheated the rules'... . after a good think, I'm sure I would instill my NC boundaries back, just what I would need to do, each of our situations is understandably different.

~StarStruck

When you re-instill your NC boundaries, do you first send them notice? Or would explaining the reasons for NC lead to your BPD having blackmail material?

How long have you been NC? I may have this wrong but were you LC then had the house clean prob and now NC because of it. Or NC before? I ask because NC means no communication at all. Please explain so I can answer x

[strangerinparadise]

No worries Starstruck!

I was LC until the house cleaning thing. I tried very hard to go NC and have been okay at it except for one slip up when a relative was in the hospital dying. My therapist really wants me to write a letter of NC and my husband is extremely behind the idea, I'm just having some bad panic attacks because of the whole process to I guess make it official? I think that that is what is really scary to me. Getting it down on paper for her to use against me.

[StarStruck]

Thank you.

"I will probably send an email describing the NC and mention the fact that this all escalated from a simple refusal to drive 6 hours to clean someone's house  "

Just to confirm the 'therapists' NC letter includes the email above? If so you are pretty set in your mind but it's the final push that's difficult. Totally understand why. I have been in the same situation, I found it pretty terrifying.

Just to check, how did you NC before? (I'm thinking never in this way by letter etc?)

SS

P.S. (Also totally understand your situation about the hospital over that NC time, thats difficult)


I know a lot of questions but it's such an important thing I want to know the full situ clearly before I say anything in ref to my experience

[smrk871345]

Thanks for your post. Sounds a little like my mom. I've been thinking about going LC to NC after moving out, but right now I'm financially dependent.

As far as the house cleaning - sounds like it's all about control, and having you clean her house puts you in a subordinate position. My mother does the same thing in other ways - always has to be the dominant figure and create situations where she can enforce her power over me. Luckily I've come to recognize it. I am able to fight it some times, but it takes a lot of energy so sometimes I just go with it and accept what it is.

Not to sound trite (and I'm not saying that you should do this) but what would happen if you paid for a cleaning service to come to their house? Seriously, what would happen? My guess is that they'd reject it, because its not about getting the house clean, it's about making YOU get the house clean.

[strangerinparadise]

Not to sound trite (and I'm not saying that you should do this) but what would happen if you paid for a cleaning service to come to their house? Seriously, what would happen? My guess is that they'd reject it, because its not about getting the house clean, it's about making YOU get the house clean.

You don't sound trite at all,smrk871345. In fact, that is an excellent idea. Her power trap involves getting you to do one thing and then forcing extra stuff on top of you until you feel like your back living under their roof.

I hope that things get better for you. Thank you for your response! 

[crazy1503]

The first few years I was nc were HARD. I felt so incredibly guilty, my mum still harasses my siblings in an effort to make them crack and give her my address and its been about 5 years now.

it does get easier. The guilt does subside. Particularly after you get to have a few peaceful christmases. Happy birthdays. Lovely holidays with wonderful memories. Now I wouldnt let myself break nc for a million dollars - its just too damn WONDERFUL without her!

[HappyChappy]

This is supposed to be empowering but all I feel is scared, helpless, and anxious? I want to point out to him the lack of logic but I'm not sure if I should even bother now.

I've been NC for 6 months, and it was scary initially, as I was expecting my BPD and N Bro to get vengence. I could hear my BPD "How dare he !". There was a flurry of activity intially, but now the sea is calm. It reminds me of when I ran away from home aged 12 and ran out of money, so had to come back (they never bothered looking for me). This time I've got more cash - Ha ! Now it feels empowering. Trouble is, I understand my BPD thinks I'll come to my sences... . so I'm building a bunker.