Seeing a girl with BPD and not sure how to take this situation

[Depression = 72% of members]

TL:)R is the bold paragraph.

A girl who I am not exclusive with is seeing me and 2 others guys, 1 she is very close with but she tells me it is not by choice but by pressure and there are some  feelings there. I started seeing her because she told me exactly she was breaking up with him for good, this did not happen. I have found out they have an off again off again relationship, she has cheated on him and I have seen him write appologises online to her for "being a poo head" so my problem isnt a moral dilemna about dating a girl seeing a guy who loves her, he wont seek help for his own problems so she says they could never be happy together.

As of lately she has started seeing him again but they are not exclusive and it seems she is prioritising him over me I get the excuses "he just comes over sometimes", "if I dont see him he will make my life hell for the next 2 days" and she has given me a pretty convincing reason why she cant break it off with him yet.

She changed plans on a date with me once because of this and was very apologetic and bought me dinner to make up for it. It happened a second time and there was no apology or regret shown at all, this worries me.

Now this is where my view gets skewed because of her BPD. Because she flaked on me I left the ball in her court, I told her to make the next date with me, a week past and nothing. So I confronted her and she said she had been busy and sick and everything which I think is BS however I decided to give her the benefit of the doubt.

A few days later she restricted me on FB I confronted her again and she played it down as her exs idea and she would undo it. Since then I have not contacted her I have totally backed off, its been almost 3 days and we havent had any conversation.

If this were a normal girl I would take it as she is not interested. But I wonder if this is BPD mirroring or object inconsistency?

I also suspect I am the guy on the side for when it goes off with her ex again.




A few things worth mentioning:

She has fearfull attachment disorder.

I notice she will lie just enough to not spark jelousy, so she hides her tracks but not the best she can, just as good as is required to keep guys around and not have to deal with any headaches herself.

I know for a fact she will not last with her current ex.

She is 20, me and her ex are 30.

She has holes in her conscience and empathy but when we hang out it works out good.

She is in therapy, I believe she can be helped.

She seems very honest for someone with BPD.

She is extremely nice given her lack of empathy and conscience, its not so much a lack of empathy come to think of it, I dunno, but we can both watch some pretty disturbing ___ online without being upset by it, I am confirmed not to have a PD btw.

She is on low dose prozac and seroquel but still has "black outs" where she will self harm and not remember anything after.

[WindTurbine]

TL:)R is the bold paragraph.

A girl who I am not exclusive with is seeing me and 2 others guys, 1 she is very close with but she tells me it is not by choice but by pressure and there are some  feelings there. I started seeing her because she told me exactly she was breaking up with him for good, this did not happen. I have found out they have an off again off again relationship, she has cheated on him and I have seen him write appologises online to her for "being a poo head" so my problem isnt a moral dilemna about dating a girl seeing a guy who loves her, he wont seek help for his own problems so she says they could never be happy together.

As of lately she has started seeing him again but they are not exclusive and it seems she is prioritising him over me I get the excuses "he just comes over sometimes", "if I dont see him he will make my life hell for the next 2 days" and she has given me a pretty convincing reason why she cant break it off with him yet.

She changed plans on a date with me once because of this and was very apologetic and bought me dinner to make up for it. It happened a second time and there was no apology or regret shown at all, this worries me.

Now this is where my view gets skewed because of her BPD. Because she flaked on me I left the ball in her court, I told her to make the next date with me, a week past and nothing. So I confronted her and she said she had been busy and sick and everything which I think is BS however I decided to give her the benefit of the doubt.

A few days later she restricted me on FB I confronted her again and she played it down as her exs idea and she would undo it. Since then I have not contacted her I have totally backed off, its been almost 3 days and we havent had any conversation.

If this were a normal girl I would take it as she is not interested. But I wonder if this is BPD mirroring or object inconsistency?

I also suspect I am the guy on the side for when it goes off with her ex again.




A few things worth mentioning:

She has fearfull attachment disorder.

I notice she will lie just enough to not spark jelousy, so she hides her tracks but not the best she can, just as good as is required to keep guys around and not have to deal with any headaches herself.

I know for a fact she will not last with her current ex.

She is 20, me and her ex are 30.

She has holes in her conscience and empathy but when we hang out it works out good.

She is in therapy, I believe she can be helped.

She seems very honest for someone with BPD.

She is extremely nice given her lack of empathy and conscience, its not so much a lack of empathy come to think of it, I dunno, but we can both watch some pretty disturbing ___ online without being upset by it, I am confirmed not to have a PD btw.

She is on low dose prozac and seroquel but still has "black outs" where she will self harm and not remember anything after.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[WindTurbine]

I have found out they have an off again off again relationship, she has cheated on him and I have seen him write appologises

I have found out they have an on again off again relationship, he has cheated on her and I have seen him write appologises

[tired-of-it-all]

Read more of the posts on this forum and them ask yourself why you are doing this. If you just want some pain in your life, there are simpler ways. Cheaters cheat. I don't believe they ever stop. BPD is a bad ride. I wish I had known what I was dealing with before I started. I would not be in this situation.

[WindTurbine]

I wouldnt be considering it except for 2 things:

1) Its what I am attracted to

2) 2 Mental health professionals with PHDs have told me its okay even for a LTR.

[tired-of-it-all]

1) The fact that she attracts you doesn't mean it is good for you.

2) Those mental health professionals aren't living in this hell.

I don't mean to be such a smart ___, but I hate to see someone jump into the same pit that I have lived.

[WindTurbine]

I know it is not good for me, but I want to try a relationship for a change I have been single for a long time, I have rejected a lot of normal girls in that time.

One was an addiction specialist and the other also did couples counselling so I am sure they have seen some bad cases in their times.

They wernt random quacks either, one writes books and does research although not on PDs, another works at a private clinic which was an extension of a major hospital.

I tried checking your profile to go through your posts but it didn't let me, I will google search your posts later though when I have more time.

You sound like you have been through some serious stuff because of dating a pwBPD, I have read a lot of stories of abuse from Cluster Bs, I have experienced such to as I have an AsPD in the family so I am well aware of the legal, financial, physical and emotional damage they can inflict and about gas lighting and manipulation. BTW I am talking about abuse from a young age, financial damage in the $100,000+ range, and the breaking apart of family and cold hearted manipulation of those closest to them, I have learnt that it is not socially acceptable to act on your emotions so I practice every day to restrain my anger and judgement even on the smallest level.

I dont want you to look too much in to these questions(IOW dont take them the wrong way) but I would like to know a few things about how you wound up in your situation. Sorry if it seems personal, I imagine I could infer the answers from analysing all your posts. And sorry if it seems too personal this is an anonymous forum after all.

1) Who had more relationship experience?

2) Did you have due legal knowledge and advice regarding your relationship in terms of domestic violance and financial protection?

3) Who was more socially dominant ie: had the most influence over neutral people in normal situations such as dinner, a few factors affect this: Cognitive empathy, physical appearance, general social skills

4) Who was seemingly more intellectually intelligent?

5) Before things got out of hand were you aware of the implications of the relationship so you could take steps to prevent or mitigate any negative outcomes? In other words did you know she had a Cluster B PD and did you get couples counselling, protect yourself, think a few steps ahead, analyse her behaviour from an objective point of view rather than rationalize her actions, hire a PI if necessary etc etc etc.

After dealing with a Cluster B person close to me myself I feel all these questions are extremely important in determining the outcome of the relationship and addresses things from every angle. Apart from the counselling it wont affect the success of the relationship but I believe it would definitely affect the outcome in a way where fallout can be mitigated to a level of dating a normal person, which while still not ideal, is no worse than other options.

[WindTurbine]

There are some really weird sentences I have written, this is the 1st forum I have ever used where you can not edit your posts so I dont proof read and I am really sleep deprived at the moment so please excuse them.

[tired-of-it-all]

I have been married to my BPDWife for more than 30 years.  Neither of us had dated lots of others before we met but she had dated more than I.  Both have engineering degrees from a very difficult university.  I played the role of the more dominant personality.  She was in the background pulling all the strings.  After she worked a few years, we married.  I was and am a workaholic.  She stayed home to have kids and homeschool (this was a mistake).

Frankly, I stayed so busy that I didn't know what I was dealing with.  I followed my father's footsteps that you "pull the plow" no matter what and "marriage is forever".  I failed to set hardly any boundaries with her because I trusted her.  It took me years to face her behavior.  Some of my children had to reach adulthood to make me see it.  Several good,  male friends convinced me to attend the alanon program.  I have been in that program for 10 years.  It is a life saver for me.  

My wife will not accept counseling.  She did for a short time when adult daughter and I confronted her in the "Intervention" style.  Because of federal laws, I cannot know if she is seeing a counselor or if she is taking meds.  It is a f**ked up world.

This is a miserable existence.  I am sure that I should leave.  I worry about her and I worry about what she will do.  THAT IS MY DOWNFALL.  

These relationships are $10 worth of pain for $0.05 worth of pleasure.  There is just no reason to put yourself through this.  Those of us who are drawn to these people have our own kind of mental illness.  We must think that we don't deserve any better.  Maybe we like pretending that we are in control of something or that we are saving someone.  

In the case you have described:  This woman has already proven that she cannot be trusted.  She is cheating on all of the men in her life.  :)o you think this will change for you?  How many times have we seen a case where a young woman partners with a horrible man who has a history of substance abuse and violence?  They think it will be different with them.  They think that they can change him.  He then repeats the same behavior.  You are about to become the next victim.

Sorry dude.  :)on't mean to be such a drag but I don't have good news for you.  I am not going to sugar coat this situation.  It is too important.  The rest of your life is too important and that is what you are about to ruin.

[ziniztar]

I've had the luck of knowing beforehand, so I was able to prepare a little. It's not easy. However, my diagnosed boyfriend (dBPDbf) has been in treatment for 1,5 years. He's also diagnosed with ADHD. I feel like he's making progress. No stories about him not allowing me to see other people. No verbal or physical attacks. He does flirt openly to try to make me jealous but when I don't take te bait, he doesn't continue. He can be extremely hopeless and act like a victim. He actively seeks therapy and is een expanding it. He can hold a job. We don't live together yet, so I get enough alone time.

That all being said it's always a mystery in what mood he'll be next. It can be exhausting - as there is a reason why you're attrackted to her and exactly that reason is going to cause you hurt. Read the lessons on this board. Educate yourself. Take it slow with her. Trust on your own instinct.

Best of luck 

[WindTurbine]

tired-of-it-all from what you have described it seems like the perfect marriage on the surface/outside.

And ziniztar you seem to be describing a very hopeful situation.

These arnt the sort of situations I was expecting from someone in regret or negativity, also that you are both still together with them.

tired-of-it-all regarding what you can not find out, I know in my country you could legally hire a PI(its a license to stalk) and watch them walk in to the psychologists office building and stand next to them as they fill their script.



I know the stigma that comes with BPD and how hard it is to treat, I have tried finding out if it is even treatable. I was surprised to find my old psychologist said I should remain friends with my AsPD brother. Also that my psychiatrist does not share the disdain I have heard they have for pwBPD.

I am going to talk with a psychologist who specialises in Cluster B PDs and discuss the repercussions(PTSD etc) and also try find out what is wrong with me to be in this situation.

I want to point out we are not committed, and there is no evidence that she has ever cheated on anyone.

I have two questions for anyone, what do you think are the most important traits for someone dating a pwBPD and the most important traits for someone with BPD to make the relationship bearable and hold together, I know there are some obvious answers here but specifically to your experience.

[ziniztar]

For me, therapy makes it bearable. It makes him aware of his own distorted thinking sometimes. It makes that I can relate to things he said about therapy when they happen.

He mentioned once he's aware of a cycle where he get's into a relationship, builds trust, then 'something' happens, and then all of a sudden he quits them. So the last time he was dysregulated I was able to calmly remind him of that and point out 'this is exactly that. If you really never want to see me again and still feel this way in a few days, I will accept your choice. But now I won't, simply because you warned me about it."

That somewhere made sense to him. The therapy makes that he stabilizes each week about the things that happen to him, so stuff doesn't always build up. He gets advice before it can blow up in our face.

That having said, how does dating her make you feel? Getting in a relationship usually is not a calculated decision. What does your gut feeling say?

[Love Is Not Enough]

She seems very honest for someone with BPD.

I want to point out we are not committed, and there is no evidence that she has ever cheated on anyone.

She is just a very good liar. Hire a PI or become addicted to spying like I once was and you will have an eye opening experience. The foundation of my philosophy that has helped me survive as long as I have is:

EVERYTHING IS A LIE

It is not my intention to sound so negative, but this the reality of what we deal with on a constant basis. This realization has helped me detach to a healthy point and maintain my sanity. Many of the lies are not intentional or used directly to cause harm, but that is what ends up happening many times. It is just how they survive, in what must be for them, a terrifying world.

I have two questions for anyone, what do you think are the most important traits for someone dating a pwBPD and the most important traits for someone with BPD to make the relationship bearable and hold together, I know there are some obvious answers here but specifically to your experience.

Your traits/issues will bring you together and hold through the idealization phase. Then all hell will break loose after about 3 to 6 months. Then you must fix YOUR issues and espouse new traits in order to reduce the devaluation and either give her a safe place for self-improvement or push her out of your life to save yourself.

The more attached you become to her the more likely your destruction will be. You will be forever changed. Some good can come from it though. I am much stronger than I have ever been and have tackled my codependency head on. I struggle much less with depression and feel healthier in general. This in spite of being in a fairly hollow rs.

So. Back to the traits. Her need for immediate attachment (fear of abandonment) and your need to save will bring the both of you together. After the honeymoon has crashed and burned, hopefully you will pick up a few new traits. Radical acceptance to be able to keep all the lies from driving you insane. Boundaries for protection. Detachment to save YOURSELF. This in turn will either push her out of your life or push her to get better. Either way things will improve for YOU.

A couple of random things.

She is 20 years old. Most likely she has a very long road ahead of her. It takes more than DBT and even the desire to get better. There must be something to seriously motivate them. For my gf it was when she had a child. This did cause her to strive for better, even if it was so she could say she was better than her BPD mother. This is NOT to tell you to have a child with this girl! That is the last thing I would ever recommend to someone dealing with BPD. With time they do tend to mellow, but we are talking many years usually.

This guy she keeps going back to will most likely be a permanent issue. This is where radical acceptance comes in. You will have to accept that he will always play some part in her life no matter what you do for her. I consider my gf to be "owned" by her exNPDbf. Some of her daily habits are directly connected to that rs and I am reminded of it constantly. This will be a thorn in your side. I promise.

So my advice to you would be to take a really hard look at yourself and figure out why a grown man wants to deal with a 20 year old kid with serious issues. You have to be really HONEST with yourself here. It is the only truth you will find in this situation.

Good luck and keep reading