Where are you at?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I'm interested here on others perspectives as the hardest thing I have is recognising my part in the relationship and the way that I contributed to my own problems and dBPDexgf's problems, maybe not contributed as they were pre-existing but agrevated. 

I still have what I have started calling 'relapses' or 'brain fades' where I find myself feeling overwhelmed about everything, these are now less frequent and although intense they don't last as long.  I recognise it as anxiety, my P says I have 'genralized anxiety' very vague but it is something I accept.  When I start rumenating or trying to work through a problem that I cant solve I get anxiety, ie: her BPD.  Understanding this helps me control this a bit and understand it however I cant stop it. 

For me radical acceptance is the major thing that is helping me.  I have been through all the tools/workshops and spent way too much money on books if I'm honest, I am getting through them slowly and working through the issues they raise.  I have made a decision to understand myself before I start reading the rest of the BPD literature I have.  This I see is helping a lot, its helping me shift from 'saving' her to saving myself. 

The information that the books provide gives me insight into her problems, the problems our son will face with her as a mother and how I contributed previously and even now I can see when I have made a mistake and before hand especially.     

I actually still question if I have mental illness problems at times.  I have discussed this in depth with my P and logically I don't.  I understand this and how the gaslighting has eroded my self esteem and confidence and causes me to constantly question myself.  My P says that I don't due to many factors and I trust him however I still worry about how I contribute to different issues in the past and now more so in the future.  Understanding this and my anxiety issues helps along with having a more broad understanding of BPD and more importantly the relationship, how it evolved, the manipulation and the breakdown of the relationship. 

A big step for me has been as I said at the start, radical acceptance.  I have accepted that I have some codependancy tendencies, I can see that these stem from my mother being VERY controlling so I developed a say yes attitude early in life to appease her.  I tried to talk to her about this and she denied it and told me I was imagining it.  For me to accept that has taken me my whole life to actually understand and acknowledge this problem, quite silly of me to expect her to accept it in one conversation.  When my mothers demands were unrealistic as a child I would still say yes to shut her up and then tolerate her anger or adverse reaction when she saw I didn't do something.  These are simple things like household chores, vaccuming or washing when growing up but it was a constant pattern.  It has become my coping mechanism with abusive situations.  From this I question if my mother has a mental illness, to that.  I'm honest about this she does have some BPD and HPD traits but not full blown just traits that become apparent when she is stressed or in an argument.  So do I and I suspect everyone. 

This well, I'm trying to change my side of it, I avoid conflict like the plague but have to see it as being firm or assertive and if the other person wants conflict I step back from it and come back another time.  This is a weird thing. 

Another side of me and I don't understand this yet is how I can give everything to someone, I will sacrafice my needs for someone else with no thought to what I am giving up.  Then on other occasions I will be very selfish with some needs, I have some boundarys that to me are unmoving and I'm so inflexible with them its polar opposites.  Its something I don't understand, ill take other peoples views on consider them but know that I am correct and work through an issue instead of caving in.  On other issues I will know I'm doing the wrong thing but bend over backwards to accomodate people and their views.

A thing that caused me huge huge problems that I didn't understand during the relationship with exBPD was how my confidence in these aspects of my life got erroded.  This caused a massive internal conflict for me and ultimately is what caused the big conflict in our relationship. 

I can see how financially I have always been very astute and planned well, with my exBPD she eroded my financial confidence and made me question myself constantly.  She invalidated my relationship with my family massively and I felt that if I wasn't loyal to her and not them I would loose her.  Classic loose loose.  I have a huge amount of confidence about finances but also know my shortcommings so I'm not over the top but I have always been good with money, how I accepted her views on some of these issues is beyond me.  I have a very supportive family, my mother and father have always been supportive and never enabled my bad behaviour.  How did I allow myself to see my strengths as weaknesses and how did I allow myself to go along with painting my family black is something I struggle with. 

I'm at a better place other than when I try to solve all the problems and question the knowledge I have now.  I still haven't forgive  myself for the role i played and also for not being able to help her.  To me i am forfilling her worst held fears and still don't understand how it is correct to do this.  I know that when you ask for advice from people on here, P's etc and get good advice I have to accept it.  I am still getting around the fact that i cant help her with this problem.  Emotionally it is painful to tell myself that it never can be, letting go of those dreams I had that were real for both of us and a family together is a requirement and building new ones isn't actually that hard.  I am reclaiming the dreams I was forced to 'abandon'.  I find that part ironic but it is very true. 

A big issue for me is acceptance.  I am getting there and I can see how I contributed, trying to change that is proving difficult especially when I make mistakes along the way.  It is hard constantly questioning myself over this but I recognise that the pain it causes immediatelly will help me deal with it in the longer term. 

Wondering on others thoughts about it all, what problems have you been able to identify with yourself or your role in the relationship?  I'm not good at short posts so if you get to here thankyou for reading. 

[Aussie JJ]

I'm interested here on others perspectives as the hardest thing I have is recognising my part in the relationship and the way that I contributed to my own problems and dBPDexgf's problems, maybe not contributed as they were pre-existing but agrevated. 

I still have what I have started calling 'relapses' or 'brain fades' where I find myself feeling overwhelmed about everything, these are now less frequent and although intense they don't last as long.  I recognise it as anxiety, my P says I have 'genralized anxiety' very vague but it is something I accept.  When I start rumenating or trying to work through a problem that I cant solve I get anxiety, ie: her BPD.  Understanding this helps me control this a bit and understand it however I cant stop it. 

For me radical acceptance is the major thing that is helping me.  I have been through all the tools/workshops and spent way too much money on books if I'm honest, I am getting through them slowly and working through the issues they raise.  I have made a decision to understand myself before I start reading the rest of the BPD literature I have.  This I see is helping a lot, its helping me shift from 'saving' her to saving myself. 

The information that the books provide gives me insight into her problems, the problems our son will face with her as a mother and how I contributed previously and even now I can see when I have made a mistake and before hand especially.     

I actually still question if I have mental illness problems at times.  I have discussed this in depth with my P and logically I don't.  I understand this and how the gaslighting has eroded my self esteem and confidence and causes me to constantly question myself.  My P says that I don't due to many factors and I trust him however I still worry about how I contribute to different issues in the past and now more so in the future.  Understanding this and my anxiety issues helps along with having a more broad understanding of BPD and more importantly the relationship, how it evolved, the manipulation and the breakdown of the relationship. 

A big step for me has been as I said at the start, radical acceptance.  I have accepted that I have some codependancy tendencies, I can see that these stem from my mother being VERY controlling so I developed a say yes attitude early in life to appease her.  I tried to talk to her about this and she denied it and told me I was imagining it.  For me to accept that has taken me my whole life to actually understand and acknowledge this problem, quite silly of me to expect her to accept it in one conversation.  When my mothers demands were unrealistic as a child I would still say yes to shut her up and then tolerate her anger or adverse reaction when she saw I didn't do something.  These are simple things like household chores, vaccuming or washing when growing up but it was a constant pattern.  It has become my coping mechanism with abusive situations.  From this I question if my mother has a mental illness, to that.  I'm honest about this she does have some BPD and HPD traits but not full blown just traits that become apparent when she is stressed or in an argument.  So do I and I suspect everyone. 

This well, I'm trying to change my side of it, I avoid conflict like the plague but have to see it as being firm or assertive and if the other person wants conflict I step back from it and come back another time.  This is a weird thing. 

Another side of me and I don't understand this yet is how I can give everything to someone, I will sacrafice my needs for someone else with no thought to what I am giving up.  Then on other occasions I will be very selfish with some needs, I have some boundarys that to me are unmoving and I'm so inflexible with them its polar opposites.  Its something I don't understand, ill take other peoples views on consider them but know that I am correct and work through an issue instead of caving in.  On other issues I will know I'm doing the wrong thing but bend over backwards to accomodate people and their views.

A thing that caused me huge huge problems that I didn't understand during the relationship with exBPD was how my confidence in these aspects of my life got erroded.  This caused a massive internal conflict for me and ultimately is what caused the big conflict in our relationship. 

I can see how financially I have always been very astute and planned well, with my exBPD she eroded my financial confidence and made me question myself constantly.  She invalidated my relationship with my family massively and I felt that if I wasn't loyal to her and not them I would loose her.  Classic loose loose.  I have a huge amount of confidence about finances but also know my shortcommings so I'm not over the top but I have always been good with money, how I accepted her views on some of these issues is beyond me.  I have a very supportive family, my mother and father have always been supportive and never enabled my bad behaviour.  How did I allow myself to see my strengths as weaknesses and how did I allow myself to go along with painting my family black is something I struggle with. 

I'm at a better place other than when I try to solve all the problems and question the knowledge I have now.  I still haven't forgive  myself for the role i played and also for not being able to help her.  To me i am forfilling her worst held fears and still don't understand how it is correct to do this.  I know that when you ask for advice from people on here, P's etc and get good advice I have to accept it.  I am still getting around the fact that i cant help her with this problem.  Emotionally it is painful to tell myself that it never can be, letting go of those dreams I had that were real for both of us and a family together is a requirement and building new ones isn't actually that hard.  I am reclaiming the dreams I was forced to 'abandon'.  I find that part ironic but it is very true. 

A big issue for me is acceptance.  I am getting there and I can see how I contributed, trying to change that is proving difficult especially when I make mistakes along the way.  It is hard constantly questioning myself over this but I recognise that the pain it causes immediatelly will help me deal with it in the longer term. 

Wondering on others thoughts about it all, what problems have you been able to identify with yourself or your role in the relationship?  I'm not good at short posts so if you get to here thankyou for reading. 

[heartandwhole]

I'm interested here on others perspectives as the hardest thing I have is recognising my part in the relationship and the way that I contributed to my own problems and dBPDexgf's problems, maybe not contributed as they were pre-existing but agrevated.

This is a great step toward healing Aussie JJ, good for you.  Turning toward ourselves and looking at our issues with a compassionate eye will move us forward and help us grow and heal.

I have made a decision to understand myself before I start reading the rest of the BPD literature I have.  This I see is helping a lot, its helping me shift from 'saving' her to saving myself.  

Very important point.  You can only "save" yourself.

A big step for me has been as I said at the start, radical acceptance.  I have accepted that I have some codependancy tendencies, I can see that these stem from my mother being VERY controlling so I developed a say yes attitude early in life to appease her.  I tried to talk to her about this and she denied it and told me I was imagining it.  

Does this sound like what you have been going through with your partner?

Another side of me and I don't understand this yet is how I can give everything to someone, I will sacrafice my needs for someone else with no thought to what I am giving up.  Then on other occasions I will be very selfish with some needs, I have some boundarys that to me are unmoving and I'm so inflexible with them its polar opposites.  Its something I don't understand, ill take other peoples views on consider them but know that I am correct and work through an issue instead of caving in.  On other issues I will know I'm doing the wrong thing but bend over backwards to accomodate people and their views.

I can relate. I seem to have very good boundaries outside of romantic relationships, with friends and professionally.  Because romantic relationships often reflect parental bonds, that's where things get wonky.

A thing that caused me huge huge problems that I didn't understand during the relationship with exBPD was how my confidence in these aspects of my life got erroded.  This caused a massive internal conflict for me and ultimately is what caused the big conflict in our relationship.

Being in a "loaded" relationship can really do a number on our self-esteem.  The issues were there, even before the relationship.  And the phenomenon of repetition compulsion can keep us trying to resolve what we couldn't "fix" in our childhoods.

I can see how financially I have always been very astute and planned well, with my exBPD she eroded my financial confidence and made me question myself constantly.

What about: I have always been very astute and planned well, with my exBPD I began to doubt my financial skills and I started to question myself constantly.  This is not about blame, but about taking your power back.

She invalidated my relationship with my family massively and I felt that if I wasn't loyal to her and not them I would loose her.

Does this remind you of anything in your FOO, Aussie JJ?

How did I allow myself to see my strengths as weaknesses and how did I allow myself to go along with painting my family black is something I struggle with.

Great questions, and exploring those issues and the feelings that come with them will help you get through this.

I'm at a better place other than when I try to solve all the problems and question the knowledge I have now.  I still haven't forgive  myself for the role i played and also for not being able to help her.  To me i am forfilling her worst held fears and still don't understand how it is correct to do this.  I know that when you ask for advice from people on here, P's etc and get good advice I have to accept it.  I am still getting around the fact that i cant help her with this problem.  Emotionally it is painful to tell myself that it never can be, letting go of those dreams I had that were real for both of us and a family together is a requirement and building new ones isn't actually that hard.  I am reclaiming the dreams I was forced to 'abandon'.  I find that part ironic but it is very true.

Radical acceptance is hard.  Letting go of hope in the face of facts can be so painful.  I had to let go of the dream that the relationship would somehow "save" me.  It hurt so much.  But now, I am so much stronger for it, and you will be, too.  

I thought if I could save my father from his pain, he would be able to love me the way I needed to be loved.  I tried, it didn't work.  I thought if I could save pwBPD, he would be able to love me the way I still needed to be loved (since childhood).  In other words, if I saved him, he would then "save" me from the pain of feeling unlovable, defective.  I tried, and it didn't work.

But this is how we set ourselves free, AussieJJ.  We learn that what we have been doing (learned coping strategies) worked well for us as kids, but can be maladaptive as adults.  This is not survival anymore, like when we were children.  As adults, we are not helpless.  Our well-being and survival do not depend on the fate of one relationship.  

Instead, we learn how to save ourselves - by doing the work that you are doing right now.  Then we just might not be attracted to people who need to be saved anymore, and we won't give them the responsibility of "fixing" us, either.

A big issue for me is acceptance.  I am getting there and I can see how I contributed, trying to change that is proving difficult especially when I make mistakes along the way.  It is hard constantly questioning myself over this but I recognise that the pain it causes immediatelly will help me deal with it in the longer term.  

AussieJJ, I hope you are proud of yourself.  This is wonderful work you are doing, and a great example for all of us.  

heartandwhole  

[Aussie JJ]

Its funny with my mother, where she denied it and said it was my fault or I was appointing blame and not accepting my role I was lying to myself to avoid the issue.  She is a good mother but very particular and forceful, its always been her way or the highway.  She has actually cut out her mother as she says her mum is a uNPD and she hasn't spoken to her in 8 years.  Was emotionally abused as growing up etc etc, she has only recently opened up with this to me as I'm talking about my ex and my situation to try and get some understanding and she will tell me what to do, what I should feel etc.  I believe her intentions are good but I think that her childhood has effected her as a parent, also now her view of my situation.  I'm not trying to appoint blame on her but I can understand some of the dynamic in hers and my relationship and how I sort of carry that with me. 

I loath to admit it but the dynamic from me growing up with her being so controling was there in my relationship with ex BPD.  I cant analyze my relationship with my mother as a nuteral person however I can see the same pattern with this last romantic partnership of me accepting controling and unhealthy behaviours to stop am immediate conflict and bottling up an issue.  I cant blame either ex or mother for me accepting that behaviour, quite sad that its taken me until 29 to see some of these patterns. 

It's funny as the relationship before hand wasn't as serious, was more casual and a lot more healthy, I was able to detach from her in a healthy way and we both moved on in a supportive happy way no push pull dynamic.  It was a 5 or 7 month relationship?  No kids or anything and not living together and then I had a break of around a year and a half before the exBPD with no serious relationships. 

I agree with the part about taking responsibility back.  I do blame exBPD for something I allowed.  That sounds horrible when you correct me, fact is I allowed it to happen.  That is something I cant allow again. 

My FOO well, above is my mothers story in short detail.  Looking at me not exBPD or FOO I can see my pattern.  I can blame them but that wont fix me.  The same dynamic does exist in a very strong and creepy way.  Also now my mum has painted my exBPD black, sort of understandable as she saw it for longer than me and I did the same thing when I first started to see the pattern but she still does it and always has with black/white thinking.  That is scary to see, only just thinking about it do I see how my mum does that. 

Its funny, with me allowing myself to paint my family black, something my ex did but I allowed myself to do I have also allowed my mother more than my father to paint my ex black.  With that I allowed myself to do it as well.  This is one of those maladaptive things I have where I allow other people to walk over my feelings or boundarys and I agree with them.  Quite sad but I have allowed my ex to ruin my relationship with my family then saw them secretly without her knowing as it caused her to rage so I didn't tell her.  Now I have allowed my mother to paint my ex black and I have suppressed that understanding of I was there as well, how did I contribute.  My mum has said so many things that are emotive and painful about my ex, true about her being sick but she didn't choose it, why be angry about it? 

At present, seeing my faults, FOO issues, acknowledging that they are MINE is really helpful.  If I go and try to talk to my mum about her influencing my decisions or trying to tell me what to do she will get angry as she did last time and tell me I'm not working on myself but blaming her.  I cant change that opinion she has but I have to accept it? 

I don't understand why I care about my mothers or ex's opinion here, its me that matters then my son.  I know at the end of the day I don't want to hurt either of them and through allowing my mother to control me I haven't acknowledged my thoughts, through allowing my ex to control me in that relationship i didn't acknowledge my thoughts a second time then a 3rd time my mum does the same thong towards my ex.  I think ill not talk to my mother about this anymore... .   change my behaviour so its just me dealing with the issue not allow her to influence me on it. 

End of the day its repeating the same pattern. 

Wow... .  

[Ihope2]

Aussie JJ in your first post you say"Another side of me and I don't understand this yet is how I can give everything to someone, I will sacrafice my needs for someone else with no thought to what I am giving up.  Then on other occasions I will be very selfish with some needs, I have some boundarys that to me are unmoving and I'm so inflexible with them its polar opposites.  Its something I don't understand, ill take other peoples views on consider them but know that I am correct and work through an issue instead of caving in.  On other issues I will know I'm doing the wrong thing but bend over backwards to accomodate people and their views".

I can relate to this a lot.  And I relate to your dynamic in your FOO, especially with your mother.

Where I am at now, is that during this most difficult year of my life, marrying a man with BPD and then within the year filing for divorce from him, and everything in between, the roller coaster ride and the intense determination I had to rescue him, I have started waking up to myself.

I am reading and interested in "Inner Child" work.  Charles Whitfield, MD published some wonderful books on the topic.

I grew up in a dysfunctional FOO, and emotional neglect seems to have been a key issue in both my parents' FOO's and in the family they formed when they had my siblings and me.  My parents were German immigrants in a very foreign country in the 1960's (South Africa).  They were isolated and my father was very preoccupied with establishing his business and providing for the family, as his family were refugees in the Second World War and there was lots of baggage around that. 

My parents never really had time for their children.  My mother remarried immediately after her divorce from my father, she married a very sexually inappropriate man with I now suspect NPD.  We were never sexually molested as such, but he and my mom would do very inappropriate sexual things in our presence.  He was also very cold and disapproving and sarcastic and my mother was conflicted about pleasing him all the time and attending to her children's needs, but we lost out mostly.

My biological father became very estranged from us, and he had a lot of bitterness about my mom, which spilled out on us.  My "stepfather" also got very involved in my mother and father's divorce and custody and parenting issues, and helped alienate us children from our father even further.  My father, when he did see us, was also always very bitter, angry and disapproving towards us as children and in later years before his death at age 56, he also had not much good to say about us as young adults.

So all this time, I have been carrying a great burden and pain around with me about being so emotionally neglected and mistreated as a child.  I have a very hurt "Inner Child".  I developed a "False Self" with which I have been conducting my relationships with people. As someone said in their post, in our intimate relationships, all those childhood and parental issues come out.  So it has been with me. I have been in a few dysfunctional relationships in my adult years with very damaged and sometimes personality disordered men.  I have been operating from my "False Self", the rescuer and co-dependent one.

I have been driven by my "repetition compulsion" to resolve my childhood issues of craving to be emotionally contained, wanting to be heard, wanting to be acknowledged and supported and mentored and praised.  I have been repeating this desperate pattern of interaction with men who have had BPD and one man with I am 99% sure now had NPD.  Or with superficial, emotionally distant and unavailable men.

So this is where I am now at.  I have been awakened now to my hurt and damaged "Inner Child".  I have been so enmeshed with others, most notably my co-dependent mother, who has gone on to marry yet another bombastic, emotionally hard and callous man (she turned 70 this year!).  I have always struggled with boundaries.  I have either had very rigid and unmoving boundaries, or else totally porous boundaries that others can trample all over!  I, too, in this most recent marriage of mine with a man with BPD, have literally done anything and everything for him and lost a large amount of finances in my desperate attempst to rescue him and gain his validation and acceptance of me!  I know how to bend over backwards and then some! 

So now I am determined to sort out what is "My Stuff" and what is "Other people's stuff".  I have been so enmeshed with other people and I absorb so much of what they project onto me and what they want me to do for them.  It has been my default mode.  I do not want to live like this any more.  I am determined to do work on healing my "Inner Child" and to realise who I am, to develop my "True Self".  I want to live the rest of my years in as authentic a way as possible.

It starts with me.  I have truly begun to let go of my False and Co-dependent Self.  I started by filing for divorce from my BPDh and trying to remain No Contact with him as much as possible, and trying to stop obsessing about his wellbeing.  I have started trusting that I am exactly where I need to be on this soul journey and so is everyone else.  I cannot do their work for them.

I am also having limited contact with my mother these days. She too has absolutely no insight into how things have been in our FOO.  Or if she does have certain realisations, her defence mechanisms are so strong, she can deny something until it simply doesn't exist in her world!  So I am giving up on being authentic with my mother, she is also 70 years, and I think she is so far gone, that a major shake-up is not going to happen in her life. She is so deeply entrenched in her codependent life with this awful man she is married to.  He is a very toxic person, and I do not feel comfortable or safe around him, or my mom.

All of this are many deep realisations, and very painful stuff to go through, but I am determined to do it in order to find serenity and joy in my remaining years.

I have not even spoken about where I am at vis a vis my soon to be ex BPDh.  I am disengaging day by day.  I include him in my prayers every day.  I carry a deep sorrow for everything he had to go through in his life, starting from infancy and the most terrible abuse he suffered at the hands of his family.  But it never was my problem and it never was my pain to take on on his behalf.  And he never had to right to lay it all on me.  I understand why he is the way he is, how he developed BPD.  I really feel great compassion for him and I wish him peace and serenity too. But I do not want to be in any sort of relationship with him.  I know one day soon I will be able to thank him (and the others before him) from my whole heart for being my "teacher" and helping me awaken to what I need to do to heal myself.  For now, I am still very raw and unsettled... .