witholding info

[Eco]

let me say first that if I were in  normal situation I wouldn't have tried to exercise my visitation time today on mothers day and we could have picked a make up day. but as we all know on here we aren't in normal situations and my ex wont work with me at all. Its in my daughters best interest right now to keep consistent visitation time with me so that when overnights start next month it wont be so difficult.

That being said, I went to get my daughter today from 2pm to 6pm for visitation and was denied. I had a feeling it would happen today, I was recording as usual and my ex said the following

get the f@!k off my property you f@!king idiot today is my day!

she screamed this while holding my daughter. I explained that per court order mothers day and fathers day times don't start till 2015.

later I texted her that the cursing and insulting by her to me along with the angry outbursts in front of my daughter needs to stop for my daughters sake.

she responded

I agree that's why you need to stop doing that

so I know that's projection and she is trying to save face on text because she knows im documenting things now. I wanted to respond to her telling her that I recorded the incident and it clearly shows that she is the one cursing and insulting me not the other way around.

my question is this, should I not tell her I have evidence? I feel that if I tell her I have evidence she will stop her normal behavior ( which is very abnormal ) im trying to build evidence and  I want the truth of how she is to be seen not her fake mask she wears to fool people , that wont help my daughter.

some times I try and keep things going in text so that the truth can be evident but I feel that it may backfire on me and she cleans up just enough to sneak by.

to sum up, she blew up at me today withheld visitation cursed and insulted me in front of my daughter. when I called her out on that through text she clearly lies and turns it around accusing me of that. should I just leave it at that and not inform her I have video showing the truth?

If I told her im sure she would blow up more and dig her hole even deeper but then after she calms down she would put on her fake image and I might lose the opportunity to gain more evidence in the future. if she only acted this way with me I wouldn't care but she acts this way with her kids as well and im thinking about whats best for my daughter. cursing , raging , insulting people and angry outbursts isn't a good role model for anyone especially children

[ForeverDad]

No, this is not the time to SHARE that information with her, it will not be received in the way it was intended.  Rather, she would be more likely to try to use that information against you.  Imagine you recording an exchange where she starts screaming, "Why are you hitting me, stop, stop!" or maybe she attacks you while screaming that.  You aren't but then you'd be afraid that she might use it against you due to the sounds of the scuffle and her screaming.  Not saying it would happen, but it could.

No, don't share this information with her.  Yes, she might behave slightly 'better' for the short term - but for all the wrong reasons and find other ways to obstruct you.  A person disordered as much as ours were/are won't take the news for self-reflection, "Oh, was I doing that to him, oh, I won't ever speak ill of him again!"  Case in point, recording were played in court of ex's twists and turns and claims, magistrate commented about her but the most commonly repeated word was "disparagement".  Ex never apologized, never changed how she spoke to me, she just stopped talking to me.  That's one way to stop me from finding out whether I get disparaged, just not the right way.  My ex just found another way to obstruct.  In the past she threw at me the recording issue often when she got upset.

Right now you are recording partly for self-defense in case she makes allegations against you and partly to document the improper opposition and obstruction.  Let's keep it simple.

[gdad]

I recorded but I never had to use it. I showed a raging video to my Attorney to show what we were dealing with. I had a lot of evidence of abuse I didn't have to use either. I was fortunate to not have to go to court.   

[cobaltblue]

Yeah there's absolute no reason to play an audio for the BPD. That's like holding a mirror up to them and it's mortifying for them. Not likely to change any behavior. Definitely likely to cause splitting episode. Just save them. She doesn't need to know how she is. Other people do.

[ForeverDad]

No, this is not the time to SHARE that information with her, it will not be received in the way it was intended.

Let me expand on my prior reply.  About 7 to 9 months before I separated, my ex was ranting, raging, screaming, sobbing and slamming doors.  Nothing new, but it had become the norm rather than just sometimes as in prior years.  I couldn't reason with her, she had tuned me out and wasn't listening.

As I've since learned, this is a disorder most evident in close relationships and what is closer than spouse or partner?  Now, years later, I accept that there was too much emotional baggage for her to really listen to me.  Maybe she would have listened to an experienced and emotionally neutral professional working with her in effective therapy over time, but not me.

Back to my story... . I turned on the video camera and recorded a few episodes.  One day I left the tape in and let the recorder out for her to see.  Did she say, "Oh honey, I saw that and am so sorry, now I see what I was doing"?  I had hoped that but No.  I came home to silence.  She never mentioned it, then or now.  Then when I walked in the bedroom I saw a pile of shredded videotape on the floor along with the case broken apart at the foot of the bed.  Later I took a photo for documentation and dumped it all in the trash.  In hindsight I'm surprised she didn't smash the recorder in a rage.  After all, she had cut cords on numerous keyboards, mice, had tossed our preschooler's computer into the garage and bent it into a slant, holes in walls, etc.

You're wishing for a belated Come-to-Jesus realization and that's very unlikely.  Maybe from a professional getting progress in therapy but not from emotionally blacklisted you.  My concern is she'd alter her behaviors and actions just enough to use that knowledge against you somehow.

[david]

Listen to ForeverDad. He nailed it on the head.                                                                     Self reflection only happens when someone is willing to listen, learn, and grow. My ex only wants to win. If my ex were ruler of the world and she thought she was going to be overthrown she would nuke the entire planet of all life. Standing in the destruction she would say, "See I told you I was right."

A friend of mine is an attorney. He told me years ago, the first one that speaks usually loses. Don't give info you do not have to give.

[Eco]

Listen to ForeverDad. He nailed it on the head.

yes I agree

You're wishing for a belated Come-to-Jesus realization and that's very unlikely.  Maybe from a professional getting progress in therapy but not from emotionally blacklisted you.  My concern is she'd alter her behaviors and actions just enough to use that knowledge against you somehow.

my thoughts exactly, im pretty sure she wont do any kind of reflection or self improvement any time soon. its kind of hard to change when you cant take accountability or quit blaming others.

my question was more on the lines of should I keep the script going and give her more rope but Im going to take FD advice and keep documenting and keep my mouth shut about what im doing the less she know the better I think.

thanks for all the input and advice

[david]

I went to email only communication years ago. At first ex controlled herself. That didn't last too long. You may need the recordings at some point or you may never need them. It's like an insurance policy.

Email only communication makes my documentation much easier. Also, I write things down the kids say or sometimes when I am picking the kids up my recorder is on because I think ex is up to something. I pick the kids up and we drive home. Later I realize the recorder was on the entire time. I then write down things the kids tell me. I keep the kids out of as much as possible. The other thing I noticed is that what I think is important later becomes nothing. Other things that are documented become important because of ex's behaviors. You never know what direction you may go until you get there. That is why documenting as much as possible is a good thing. The trick is to make it as simple and painless as possible. You don't want to spend all your free time documenting and organizing.

[livednlearned]

Listen to ForeverDad. He nailed it on the head.

yes I agree

You're wishing for a belated Come-to-Jesus realization and that's very unlikely.  Maybe from a professional getting progress in therapy but not from emotionally blacklisted you.  My concern is she'd alter her behaviors and actions just enough to use that knowledge against you somehow.

my thoughts exactly, im pretty sure she wont do any kind of reflection or self improvement any time soon. its kind of hard to change when you cant take accountability or quit blaming others.

my question was more on the lines of should I keep the script going and give her more rope but Im going to take FD advice and keep documenting and keep my mouth shut about what im doing the less she know the better I think.

thanks for all the input and advice

The problem with sharing information is that she will have time to try and one-up your strategy or undermine your plan. Or worse, she will make false allegations hoping something will stick and level the playing field. You don't need to dysregulate her -- she will do that all on her own. And dysregulating her may make her more desperate, and that's not good for anyone, especially D.

[Eco]

You don't need to dysregulate her -- she will do that all on her own. And dysregulating her may make her more desperate, and that's not good for anyone, especially D.

you are wise. great advice, I think im trying to rush things to get this over but the reality is im going to have to deal with her for the rest of my life. unfortunately for my daughter my ex dysregulates  a lot, even though im not around to trigger her my exs 9 yr old daughter seems to trigger her hourly, just her presence seems to do it. I feel so bad for my exs 9 yr old daughter she wont speak to adults because of obvious abuse and looks deprest constantly. thats one thing I intend to bring up in court.

[david]

My ex ran away in 2007. A few months later she dropped the boys off. They walked into the house and said in unison, "We hate you . We want to live with mom and never see you again." I am sure their mother did that to them and I didn't take what they said personally. I was pissed at ex though for doing that. They were 8.5 and 4.5 at the time. They are now 15 and 11. They no longer trust ex and basically just eat and sleep at her place now. I feel bad for that but it is what it is. Our younger one is more cautious around new people and places. I don't know he would have been that way if ex hadn't run away and did the emotionally abusive things she did to him. I think younger children have it tougher with a parent with BPD. He was told he wasn't very smart by his mom when he was 5, 6, and 7. It wasn't direct but the way she treated him and the way she talked to him. He started believing it. After she left it took me a lot of patience and time (about three years) to really convince him that he was smart and capable. I had to be almost constantly available to guide him when he was with me. Eventually, little by little, he gained confidence. He is much stronger now and ex does not have that same effect on him.