Question on recycling

[Depression = 72% of members]

I recycled lots of times with my Bpdx. Each break up makeup cycle slowly destroyed the relationship.

Also there was a definite pattern of lots of mini break ups followed by major ones with a break of a month or more. Every time we break up She has another guy.

This time has been the longest break so far.

What I'm trying to ask the board is Do they like you less and less at each recycle? Do they hate you more or just become apathetic towards you. I felt more used, less loved and less respected each time.

Do the chances of them returning to you get smaller each time you recycle? And if the breakup lasts longer does that also increase the possibility of them not returning. Or is 3 months the same as two weeks in their eyes.

Any feedback on this would be great.

Thanks

[Front runner]

I recycled lots of times with my Bpdx. Each break up makeup cycle slowly destroyed the relationship.

Also there was a definite pattern of lots of mini break ups followed by major ones with a break of a month or more. Every time we break up She has another guy.

This time has been the longest break so far.

What I'm trying to ask the board is Do they like you less and less at each recycle? Do they hate you more or just become apathetic towards you. I felt more used, less loved and less respected each time.

Do the chances of them returning to you get smaller each time you recycle? And if the breakup lasts longer does that also increase the possibility of them not returning. Or is 3 months the same as two weeks in their eyes.

Any feedback on this would be great.

Thanks

[Lion Fire]

Hi bro,

Sorry to hear about your turmoil.

I only tolerated one recycling.  the respect levels definitely dropped on both sides and it was a new level of mess. There have been several more attempts from her side but I have resisted. I know she'll destroy me more.

From my experience and what I have read here, it only get's worse. Once you have entered this cycle it can only spiral downwards. The fundamentals of a healthy relationship are shattered and you cannot fix a smashed plate.

This was the direction I was given:

Get out while you can... . grieve, heal and move on to bigger, better and healthier things. No contact is the best way if possible. Stay close to this forum.

Hang in and stay strong

Peace

[Front runner]

Hanging in there like crazy. By my fingertips, literally fighting off madness. I'm on this board 24/7.

I would just love to know when/where/how I will get contact. Or maybe never.

This is what's doing my head in and keeping me stuck.

I think at some point she will contact me because she is a loose cannon in the true sense of the word.

This is making it very hard for me to detach and giving me huge anxiety.

[Dolly rocker]

She WILL contact you front runner.

They always do after some time. Mine doesn't leave me alone and it does my head in.

At first I loved the fact he was after me. But then I woke up to the reality that I wasn't going to get back with him ever again and his calls started to become a burden.

Get yourself a nice hobby. It always helps when u need to get your head of something or someone. If your into photography then do a photography course. Find the time to do domething you really enjoy.

You will start to fell so much better about yourself.

Remember it's all about you now.

She was horrible to you, she doesn't deserve you and it will never work. So don't wast anymore time of your precious life on her.

Stay well!

[Narellan]

Hanging in there like crazy. By my fingertips, literally fighting off madness. I'm on this board 24/7. I would just love to know when/where/how I will get contact. Or maybe never. This is what's doing my head in and keeping me stuck. I think at some point she will contact me because she is a loose cannon in the true sense of the word. This is making it very hard for me to detach and giving me huge anxiety.

Front Runner you may go mad if you continue this thought process. What is it you are hoping will happen? Are you wanting to reconcile with your ex, or wanting to detach and move on?

I have called my exBPD a loose cannon many times too, he really is. And he will more than likely attempt another recycle(4 so far). However, i have planned out in my head my reaction and response to that. I want to remain NC. That wasnt my decision to start with, but now it is. I want to detach from him. Its taken many weeks of NC for me to get to this point, but i refuse to be swayed again.And i know im vulnerable at times, and he has all the right words, but this time i am determined. This time its different. Ive run over scenarios in my head until i now feel like the one in control of the situation. Maybe it would help you to do this too. Ask yourself what the ideal outcome would be, and put steps in your head and visualise yourself taking back your control. Its no life with this kind of stress and trauma on you. And to be honest its wasted energy. Worrying/ruminating is like rocking in a rocking chair. Its gives you something to do, but it doesnt get you anywhere. Please look after yourself.

[Runningbare]

They will only attempt recycling if they think your weak enough to pick up the pieces for them again. You can move toward control with the preceeding advice. The only time you will actually get control is when contact happens... . and you can say NO THANKS.

In my experience there is then a massive campaign to show you how wrong and crazy you are.

[bunnyrabit]

I can only speak from my own experience and I'd wager this will, like all human beings, differ from BPD to BPD. In my case, I recycled once and it was different but not necessarily less respectful. Maybe it had to do with the fact that she was getting some therapy and taking meds, but the recycle didn't end with painting me black this time. Well, she was very depressed and this was all my fault of course, so this could be seen as a form of painting black, but there was no raging, no insults, no violence, no false accusations as with the first recycle. In fact, they only things I heard from her after the second recycle was that she loved me and cared for me deeply, but couldn't be with me... . Mind you, this doesn't make it ANY easier or less confusing, on the contrary even... .

From what I gather the BPD will always look for a caregiver, someone to 'fix' her, this caregiver will inevitably fail at this job sooner or later because the expectations from the BPD aren't realistic. At this point she will look for another caregiver, anyone really. When your name happens to be on top of her list she may instigate a recycle but do not make the mistake to think that this has anything to do with you or who you are, you are simply the easiest 'victim' at this point.

[Infared]

My experience and understanding would be continued attempts at recycling... . My pwBPD after running off with her new care-giver, about a year later did a 5-shot drive-by when I was out putting my mountain bike on my car one Saturday.  I knew I had incoming (gas lighting), so I shut it down real fast, as she was getting out of the car I asked if she was still with the man she left me for, she said yes and I said GOOD-bye. She never got out of the car all the way and got back in and drove away with this hurt expression on her face. (Playing victim manipulation).  I felt bad and made the mistake of calling her, and during that conversation I learned that her care-giver was out of town. I believe that the only reason she did the drive-by was because she could not bear to be alone for one day. It had nothing to do with her missing "me". I talked calmly, which was not easy and when I made it clear that I was not going to spend time with her (so difficult for me, but a BIG change as I did not cave-in to her whim) she became enraged and said mean things about my Mother who had just died and very hurtful things to me.

Making that call was a huge mistake and I think many here can identify with that.If I had it to do over I would have left it at the curb and felt like I was protecting myself resolutely. The pull of the BPD is soo strong to a person with my makeup. I was always able to have the prescience of mind to not interact with future attempts.

Over the years my pwBPD has tried to make contact with me in public places very randomly with large time gaps in between attempts and I always fend them off and maintain absolutely no contact.   As long as I live in the same area I think that this will continue to occur.

[Front runner]

Thanks for the response. Every time we have broken up her treatment of me has been more harsh. I think in every previous relationship she has had she has gone off with her ex's best friend. This is what she does!. Luckily I don't have best friends who would let that happen. However, even when we were engaged and supposedly at our happiest she was flirting massively with my cousin, who like her is quite a coke head. He wanted to take her away from a family party in a taxi because she was acting hysterical. God knows what would have happened. Looking back she would have done everything she could to have got him in the sack and probably succeeded.  I mean god help us.  Why is it that they have to cause MAXIMUM pain and maximum damage. What's the mind set here? What do they want to achieve? Total annihilation of the person that loves them the most? Why for ___sake?

I have to get out of this rocking chair. I have to

[Front runner]

She moved out when I was three days out of town.  Texted me on Wednesday 'yay you're coming home tomorrow, I love you' .  Gone Thursday taking condoms with her.  The fact I had my son with me might have been a factor.  But that insane jealousy and the fact they can't be alone for three ___ing seconds. Who can live with that?

[fromheeltoheal]

Do they like you less and less at each recycle?  Abandonment and the fear of it is at the core of the disorder, a breakup is an abandonment on some level regardless of the details, so the fear of abandonment will just be stronger each time you get back together, which is triggering for a borderline, so the relationship will probably be more chaotic and less stable.

But no matter, it takes two to recycle.  You sound like it's a given that if she shows up after a fling you'll immediately get back together; that is giving her all the control and acting like a doormat, which will cause any woman, disordered or not, to respect you less.  It's about defining what you want, deciding if you could ever get it from her, acting accordingly, and going and getting what you want from her or someone else.  It's not complicated, but it does require a backbone and some awareness; if you don't have those, go get them first.  Take care of you!

[Front runner]

Yes I understand this. I would want her if she could be faithful, have some honesty, be Loving and respectful.

This is what I want out of a relationship.  I have been good nc. 6 weeks with one 'chance' meeting. It is my willingness (weakness) to cave in that is the problem. I have avoided contacting her at all costs which I am pleased about.

It is a backbone thing. The problem is that it's a backbone carrying a very heavy heart. 

[Front runner]

The answer is NO.  At this moment in time she definitely can't give me what I want. So taking that on board there is nothing I can do to salvage the rs

[bunnyrabit]

Here's something I found on the web, written by a female BPD sufferer concerning your questions. Hope this may give you a little insight.

It's very BPD to do that. Sometimes, it's not really complete detachment. It's just the withdrawn part that comes with black and white thinking. There have been so many times over the years when someone has wronged me and I've been determined to cut them off instantaneously. To never speak to them again. Even if we'd known each other for years. If I'm attached to them in some way and I need something from the relationship (love, connection, validation, whatever) I'd generally come back.

But with me, the back and forth, back and forth. It damages things over time. Every time you go through the cycle of feeling hurt and withdrawing, a little bit of your "love" for the person disappears. For me, the push/pull stuff eventually destroys the relationship. I lose interest and just don't care about it anymore. I find someone else to direct my attention to. You get to a point where one random hurtful thing happens and that's just it. There is no more coming back. You withdraw permanently and move on. I'm currently trying to get it back with my husband. To go from having withdrawn to the point of indifference, to getting something resembling the love of a normal long term relationship. Honestly, I don't know how to do it and I don't think I'm currently capable of it.

Some of the time, I wonder if I've ever really loved anyone. I've had really strong attachments to people. Seriously, to the point of obsession where I think this person can actually be the thing that makes me happy. But it's only there so long as I'm getting what I seem to need from the relationship. Over time it disappears.

That's unlikely to be the experience of every female with BPD, but hopefully that helps a bit.

[fromheeltoheal]

The problem is that it's a backbone carrying a very heavy heart.  Yeah, I know, it hurts.  The hardest part for me was realizing and accepting what I was in love with was a fantasy that only existed in my head, and the real her was someone who could never meet that fantasy and needed to be as far from me as possible.  Radical acceptance they call it around here, and it was very painful.

But sitting with that pain, processing, not escaping from it or repressing it, is very fruitful, and is what healthy people do, realizing that it will pass, there's plenty of sunshine after the storm, but right now there are lessons to be learned, learning motivated by pain, pain that could have been avoided if we'd learned those lessons already, along with a determination to learn those lessons so we can take a healthier, stronger us into the next relationship.  That's the gift of these relationships, although we need to live it to learn it.  Take care of you!

[Front runner]

Bunny rabbit, that is terrifyingly accurate. Perfect description of what has happened. I'm at the stage where she has withdrawn completely with indifference. How awful! But thank you.

They can't see their part in the break ups at all can they?

But she is still trying to connect having withdrawn completely with indifference? Feel so desperate

[Infared]

Yes... . it seems that a person with BPD considers themselves blameless at all times. Looking there is waaaay too terrifying for them... . so if they have a problem with the relationship it is always the other person or just the ethers or something   ... . it is NEVER them... . ie... . they will not do any self introspection and even consider that there is anything wrong with them or that they have to change.  So any adult "discussion" in a relationship is really not possible on that level... . After a period of time, short or long , it usually all breaks down for both people.

I am far enough away from it that I can see this is what was happening in my relationship. When you are in the middle of it, it is soo difficult. I feel for you Frontrunner. Even when you can wrap your head around it your heart understands none of it in the early stages.

[bunnyrabit]

Bunny rabbit, that is terrifyingly accurate. Perfect description of what has happened. I'm at the stage where she has withdrawn completely with indifference. How awful! But thank you.

They can't see their part in the break ups at all can they?

But she is still trying to connect having withdrawn completely with indifference? Feel so desperate

I know buddy, you're in shock, we've all been there but the sharpness of it will fade soon enough. I think it's time for you the accept the reality, she is severely mentally ill, she cannot understand her own actions and neither can you. Trying to make sense out of insanity is a futile exercise because there is none to be found.

You can be the bigger man now, let her go. Imo, if you truly love someone you'll do what's best for that person. You and I now that that right now is to focus on you and your recovery and stop being her codependent enabler and set some firm boundaries, that is what she truly needs... .

[Front runner]

It's a loose situation. Set a firm boundary re something like cheating. They test it instinctively. Break up go nc for the rest of your life OR take them back and the cycles commence

[Emelie Emelie]

Hello Front Runner - I understand your feelings of frustration and desperation.  We had one major break up and one recycle.  First relationship was almost a year, second just four months.  I have a bit of a different take on why I think it crashes and burns faster in subsequent recycles.  The relationship ends because it's bringing up all these very difficult feelings for the BPD.  As my T once said to me, you are the problem now.  After you're apart for a while those feelings lessen, they become calmer, and they start thinking of you again with fondness.  Missing you.  They reach out.  My BF really believed his life would be great if I would just come back to him.  He had much higher expectations for the relationship this time around.  Of course it wasn't great.  He was still dealing with all his core wounds and issues.  So he became very angry at me.  I was disappointing him.  I wasn't meeting his needs.  So he discarded me once again.  The anger and disappointment came much more quickly this time.  And my tolerance for his abusive behavior was lower.  I don't doubt if we were to try again the cycle would be even shorter. 

I really do understand that desperate feeling.  Will he call me?  Will he reach out to me?  I want someone, anyone to tell me that he will.  Or even know for sure that he won't.  I feel so wrecked and rejected and in those crazy moments it feels like the only thing that will help is some kind of validation from him.  Then I usually end up reaching out to him and most of the time I just feel worse. 

It's very dangerous for us to put our emotional well-being in the hands of someone with BPD.  I am just beginning to realize how dangerous it is.  I don't think it's that they don't want a healthy relationship.  My exBF wants nothing more.  It's that they just can't manage a healthy relationship.  They are so caught up in their own painful feelings they simply cannot empathize with ours. 

I'm not in a great place myself right now... . so I'm no well spring of good advice.  I do try to take it one day at a time; sometimes one hour or one minute at a time. 

Sending you 

[Narellan]

My take on it is similar to Emelies. Every time we split it was at the time where we'd never been closer. Each time was more intense. I believe when he reaches that point his " flight mechanism" kicks into overdrive due to the emotions he's unable to process. He wants this emotional connection, but can't deal with it. So he runs, and seeks comfort elsewhere. Self soothes, blames me. Then as he realises there's no danger and his flight mechanism dies down those attachment feelings drive him back. I've had 4 recycles. Once he decides to return he is desperate and relentless. Stalkerish even.

I've learned enough and been hurt enough to know what I need to do now. NC ongoing regardless if how he feels and the words that he uses.

[Front runner]

So sweet and so bitter

[Narellan]

Jeckle and Hyde relationship.

[fromheeltoheal]

It's very dangerous for us to put our emotional well-being in the hands of someone with BPD.  I am just beginning to realize how dangerous it is. 

Yep, we get exposed to a worldview and belief system that we didn't expect, with someone who's been living it since infancy; talk about being caught off guard.

And it is very telling and beneficial to investigate what we did about it once we found out how the borderline is really wired, beyond the fiction of idealization, and why we stayed if we did; that investigation can tell us a hell of a lot about ourselves, and if we use the pain as motivation the experience can be very beneficial moving forward.

What is good about being exposed to that pathology for you?

[Narellan]

From my experience what is good is that I've been slapped awake. I think from going through all this agony ( and jubilation whilst i was in it) I've realised I've been numb my whole life.

I question everything now. I've ended several friendships that were no longer benefiting me. I've started asking myself what I want to do, where I want to be instead of just following along. I've been stripped to the core. I am confused about every decision I've ever made in my life, and so I'm exploring that. I'm asking for help and reaching out. I don't have to be an island. Or a victim anymore. It's liberating to start feeling in control. Something I had forgotten how to do. I am aware of  more now and I'm listening to my gut feel more. I'm learning about everything.

[fromheeltoheal]

From my experience what is good is that I've been slapped awake. I think from going through all this agony ( and jubilation whilst i was in it) I've realised I've been numb my whole life.

I question everything now. I've ended several friendships that were no longer benefiting me. I've started asking myself what I want to do, where I want to be instead of just following along. I've been stripped to the core. I am confused about every decision I've ever made in my life, and so I'm exploring that. I'm asking for help and reaching out. I don't have to be an island. Or a victim anymore. It's liberating to start feeling in control. Something I had forgotten how to do. I am aware of  more now and I'm listening to my gut feel more. I'm learning about everything.

[NewMom]

Hi Frontrunner,

I soo understand what you're going through. I hope you have the strength for yourself to distance yourself from your BPDx. I've been trying myself - to get out of this vicious cycle. My BPDh left at the end of my pregnancy, started at least one affair, returned, became even more vicious and hurtul than before, left again, tried coming back, kept saying he still loves me but is mad at me for not loving him enough, left again... . Now we are trying to NOT communicate (which is hard due to the fact that we have a daughter together). He keeps testing my boundaries and values. But now (through therapy, this forum and a self-help group I attend) that MY VALUES are MY VALUES. And one of those is that I CANNOT tolerate cheating and lying. And even if this is a BPD trait it is still sth I cannot and will not accept.

Nevertheless, like you I keep looking at my phone or e-mail hoping, wishing he will contact me, even though I know it won't change squat. Because he will not be able to give me what I hope for - Love for love's sake. He needs people to love him without even really knowing what that is. And I can't accept all blame about what might have gone wrong in our 19 year realtionship.

Last Thursday was such a test for me as well: We had our 10 year wedding anniversary. I spent it with my lovely girlfriends. But a few days later I saw HE spent the day drinking with other women (he posted those wonderful pics on FB). So while I was sad and suffering about the loss of what I had once cherished more than anything, he partied. Not thinking about what his pictures or actions would do to me. Who wants that? Who needs that?

You as well as all the others who post here need to be respected. Deserve to find happiness within themselves. I am doing my darnest to keep myself positive and see how this horrible crisis will make me a stronger, healthier person, who doesn't NEED anyone by their side but rather WANTS to share a life with someone who loves her and has values that correspond with mine.

Sending you a big, big hug from Europe   (I stayed here for my BPDh and never returned to the US even though that is my home... . )

[Front runner]

Newmom,

That is ghastly! I really feel for you. You sound strong and are doing  a fantastic job.

I'm in the UK.

I can't imagine the consequences of having a child with my x. Someone on here said you haven't seen horror until you've seen your partner raging at their 2 year old. Found that very sobering. My x at one stage told me she was going to have 'words' with my 3 year old son because he had disrespected her by calling her a girl instead of a woman. A 3 year old for ___sake! . How could he possibly know the difference.

The most amazing thing that happened. Was that when he very first met her he said 'daddy's very precious you know'. She replied 'yes I know he is darling' then he said 'PLEASE DONT BREAK HIM'.

So a 3 yr old, with healthy emotions and strong gut feel saw right through her, as did a few other people. Incredible thinking about it. Please god can I keep him that way. Get healthy myself and show him a proper loving relationship x

[Front runner]

A very weird thing happened a week after my uncle died of cancer. He was a vicar (not that makes any difference) but my TV came on by itself at 2am. And as I was waking form my sleep a mans voice said 'I'm in heaven, just get rid of her'. It's possible I could have imagined what the guy said but nevertheless the TV came on without a timer or anything and that's what I imagined what was said or saying.

[NewMom]

All I know is children usually have the right intuition - it hasn't been conditioned OUT of them yet. And My BPDh's mom was BPD as well (though undiagnosed) and was horrid to my BPDh's older brother (who was not her son). In this case you and your son are the important people here. I thank my lucky stars for this beautiful baby but had I known what I do now, I would have gotten out of this relationship well before she was on her way. She will be asking a lot of questions in the future and I hope he will at least be emotionally stable enough to see her more than the 2-3hrs/week he is capable of now... .

Be proud of you little boy - he loves his daddy and wants to protect him! And you are protecting him as well, by keeping away from her.

I had a similar situation a few months before my darling was born: I dreamt that he would leave me in such a horrible way. When I woke up I felt drained of all energy. But it seemed so realistic. And now I know that my heart had probably already seen what was going to come. Because deep down the heart knows the truth (I know it sounds corny!).