Set back

[lever.]

The saga continues. I am upset but not as devastated as last time.

DD visited for 2 nights last week and with use of the tools we avoided any major difficulties

.She asked to visit again for a week from May 24th.

There was a problem as DD2 was already due to stay here on 25th and whilst they are not friends I feel as if I need to keep my relationship with them separate.

I had to say that DD could visit but from 26th ( I had to use a lot of persuasion on DH).

I suspected this would not go down well and have now received an e-mail saying that I am treating her very badly and it is not healthy for the GC to witness this dynamic. Therefore they will not visit and she regrets giving me a second chance.

I have replied as follows.

" I am sorry you feel that I have rejected you in favour of DS-that must feel very hurtful.

It truly is not intended. I love both of you but whilst you are not friends I feel that I must keep my relationship with each of you separate. I will give this some thought. DSs visit was already arranged before I knew your plans"

Don't know what to do now. If I asked DD2 not to visit she would probably be ok with it-but if I do that am I setting up problems for the future?

So love and miss DGC but afraid of making a mistake.

Will I just have to let go? Help!

I think my work has failed and we are going back to NC

PS deceiving myself-extremely upset thinking of the GCn- not as Zen as I'd like to be.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[pessim-optimist]

Dear lever,

I am sorry it did not work out this time. I think you handled it well... .

It was predictable that dd would be upset. Especially in the beginning when we change the dynamic and stick to our guns on some boundaries, there is a lot of push-back. Whether we cave in or not is critical, and sets up the tone for the future. It gets easier with time when we are consistent.

When we did not know about BPD, many of us got into the pattern of giving in, just so we would not have to deal w/ a tantrum or emotional blackmail. The pwBPD got used to us giving in. Now, we are changing the rules on them. It will take time for them to get used to the uncomfortable change... .

The saga continues. I am upset but not as devastated as last time.

PS deceiving myself-extremely upset thinking of the GCn- not as Zen as I'd like to be.

You keep a sense of humor throughout the hurt and also honesty... .    It made me smile

Hang in there lever, and keep the door open for dd... .

[chooselove]

I agree, hang in there.  Thanfully my BPD daughter does not have children. I can only imagine the deeper level of heartache.  But I think that if you cave now then she will become more empowered at using the children as weapons.  My daughter has threatened to keep her future children from me if I don't give her what she wants now.  I've countered by saying, "I know how much you love children so I didn't think you were the type to punish innocents."

[js friend]

Lever, I think your reply was a good one.

As you say this is a set back... it doesnt mean all is lost.This is just the BPD dance in all its glory.

if you think about it your dd has had so many years thinking in this way  that this response was perhaps to be expected... . and doesnt meant that you have failed... . Your dd lacks the tools to compromise so the threats and emotional blackmail begins... . but it desnt mean you should give into it. Boundries are there to protect us and  ultimatley help our children in the long run. I have a few with my dd which she rebelled about in the beginning but now they are firmly in place the drama is much less.

I know you miss your GC but my advice would be not to chase after. If you do it will just send a message to your dd how much this is affecting you.

Give it time and be easy on yourself... . Im sure she will come round in time... .

[lever.]

Thank-you for your replies. It really does help me feel better.

I do keep questioning myself over whether I am being unfair to her.

There was another sentence in the e-mail:" Until you admit that you are in the wrong and change your behaviour I don't think we can move forward"

Now I know I have made some big mistakes in the past and I have tried to apologise but over recent events I feel as if I have done the best I can with the hand I have been dealt.

Therefore an apology would be false and could be validating the invalid.

The temptation to back down and ask other DD to stay away is strong but this issue is going to keep coming back.

Thank-you for your support. In real life I would feel I was imposing by keeping asking over and over for advice. You are so good on here

[Rapt Reader]

There was another sentence in the e-mail:" Until you admit that you are in the wrong and change your behaviour I don't think we can move forward"

Now I know I have made some big mistakes in the past and I have tried to apologise but over recent events I feel as if I have done the best I can with the hand I have been dealt.

Therefore an apology would be false and could be validating the invalid.

Hey, lever... .

You are right that validating the invalid is wrong, and you don't want to JADE at all, either (Justify, Apologize, Defend or Explain). Maybe just validating the way your daughter feels, without agreeing that she is right about it? You are very good at S.E.T. (Support, Empathy, Truth), and I bet if you think about it a bit, you will find a way to provide her with the validation and peace she is looking for (at least for now   ), without compromising the truth.

If you try to write a script for that and need help, you can use us as your editors. Just write out what you want to say about the situation, and then turn it into S.E.T. We can help 

[lever.]

Thank-you SO much Raptreader.

This is what I would ideally like to say but won't say all of it as it would inflame situation.

I have been thinking about your e-mail and recognize that you must feel very strongly that I am treating you unfairly. Otherwise you would not consider the children missing out on all the days out and fun. (We live in a holiday area by the sea).

I feel very torn here.

Your sister has a long -standing arrangement to stay here as she is on a course in xxx. This was arranged long before I knew your plans.

I have already asked her to leave a day early  and I am just requesting you to arrive a day late.

Whilst you are not friends I really feel that I need to see you separately. I love both you and your sister

I am sorry that this came over as setting conditions on your visit-I didn't intend it that way.

I will be disappointed if you feel unable to visit but will understand.

I don't like to think of you unhappy in xxplace. You are a great Mum to the kids but having 4 under 6 will be a challenge and I do want to support you and give the children a nice break.

I would like to say( but can't) that the whole horrible situation was caused by her invading her sister's privacy and causing a fuss.

I have just phoned DD2 to check out how she would react and I can tell she would be upset if I ask her not to visit.

If anyone can take the bones of this and help me phrase something I would really be very grateful.

I would also say that this situation is likely to crop up again.

[pessim-optimist]

I would also say that this situation is likely to crop up again.

You are spot on, lever, and that's why it's important to not give in as others have said.

There was another sentence in the e-mail:" Until you admit that you are in the wrong and change your behaviour I don't think we can move forward"

You are right about validating the valid and NOT validating the invalid.

Rapt Reader gave some wonderful insight on that.

I call these demands "red herrings" to be ignored and not reacted to - basically, there is an issue, the pwBPD feels hurt or ashamed of what they did, and they need a bad guy to take the blame, so the situation can be resolved. If we validate their feelings and come up with a different solution to give them a way out or resolve the conflict, they often happily take it.

It actually made me smile, because we just had a very similar situation where our dd was demanding all kinds of impossible stuff before she would 'even try to slowly mend the relationship' and was posing her kids as hostages (=we were being the bad guys hurting the kids by not wanting a reconciliation). Before we were able to respond, she called us and her demands are long forgotten. That proves that it was indeed a 'red herring' at least in this case.

If I was to write her back, I'd probably say something like:

Hi dd,

I am so sorry that you feel slighted and hurt about not being able to come visit on xxdate. I really enjoyed having you here and I was happy that we all had a good time.

I love both you and your sister and hope that someday we can all visit together. Right now, it would be too stressful for me.

I would still love to see you for another visit, if you can come on xx. I know, it would be one day shorter, it could still be a lot of fun, though. You are a great Mum, and I was thinking that this visit would give you and the children a nice break.

I would love to have you, let me know if you think you could come on xx. If not, I will understand.

Love, mom

[lever.]

Thanks pessim-optimist.

That's perfect-it cuts out anything to argue about, sounds loving but sticks to the boundary.

I have e-mailed it.

I can't give in or every school holiday, Christmas etc will be awkward. DD2 is a teacher and DD1 is going to be restricted to school hols now as her eldest is in school so I need to be firm.

Also in a nice way she needs to learn that if she treats people like this there are consequences. Last week she was saying she would dance at her sister's funeral and she hoped the w***er (her Dad) dies - this week she wants me to put her first and ignore their wishes.

I think your suggested reply is the best I could have done-and I have let the red herring swim past!

[pessim-optimist]

and I have let the red herring swim past!

Sometimes there are so many of those, it looks like it's the salmons swimming up stream to spawn... .  

[lever.]

Reply:

I will NEVER EVER treat my children as badly as you treat me.

I will arrive on XX, can you give me a lift to YY (Wish me luck!)

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[hopeangel]

Oh Lever I have have heard that one SO many times! 

Good LUCK! Fingers and everything crossed for you! xx

[pessim-optimist]

Reply:

I will NEVER EVER treat my children as badly as you treat me.

I will arrive on XX, can you give me a lift to YY (Wish me luck!)

I know, it takes them a while to fizzle out... .

Wishing you lots of wisdom and peace this weekend.