Same question different answers

[JackBlacknBlue]

Does anyone else have experience whereby the pwuBPD has repeatedly completely different tone and answers to you than they do to others.  Today was classic example where I ask my friend wuBPD about how they were finding their experience at a conference they are at.  Their answer to me in email was:  "I tried not to hate some people here this week based in initial thoughts and feelings.  Did manage it with most.  Not all"

A mutual friend asked the same question in mail and the pwUBD replied: "Met some nice people who own dogs.  They are good"

the mutual friend had added me to the email to ask us both something after that which is how I saw the response.

My pwuBPD has shown me mails and texts she as sent and I am always shocked to see how super positive they are with smiley face and hearts emoticons.  With me, the texts and mails are about how upset she is with something, problems, bad news etc.  The first time I saw such a stark difference I was shocked.  It is like completely different people have sent the messages.  I know she has painted me black and it cycles from black to white and back.  I guess I am just surprised how in the same span of time sending two people emails answering same question within minutes of each other, they could be so different in tone.   

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[waverider]

The recollection of events is often not an accurate subjective recollection of what really happens. It is raw material which can be used selectively to be presented in a way to portray how they fell at any any given time.

As a result different versions of events are common, if she feels upbeat, or wants to give an upbeat impression, with someone the recollection is rosy. if she wants sympathy, the world around her is terrible.

Lack of consistency together with their mood swings, mean the past is rewritten to suit how they feel today, tomorrows plans are made on how the feel today. Thats one reason future plans are often changed. The past is rewritten to validate today's mood.

The hard bit is they believe this current version. It is one of the reasons they dont have a strong sense of self because there is no consistency to determine what they really stand for

Do you find you ever get different versions told to you at different times?

[123Phoebe]

Does anyone else have experience whereby the pwuBPD has repeatedly completely different tone and answers to you than they do to others.  Today was classic example where I ask my friend wuBPD about how they were finding their experience at a conference they are at.  Their answer to me in email was:  "I tried not to hate some people here this week based in initial thoughts and feelings.  :)id manage it with most.  Not all"

Hi JackBlacknBlue,

Out of curiosity, did the two of you discuss any of this prior to the conference?  I'm imagining sending/receiving something like this to a certain friend of mine (not pwBPD) that works with "the public", as do I.  We have inside jokes and get where each other are coming from.  I guess I'm wondering if it's a continuation of a previous conversation, one where she'd feel totally comfortable expressing herself in this way?

Mirroring isn't only about the positive aspects, but the negative ones too... .  Same goes for validation.

[JackBlacknBlue]

That is a v good question 123Phoebe. I just reviewed the email interaction in the days leading up to my question about the conference. She sent me a message asking me if I had been part of an initiative at work that she saw an email about.  I replied straight forwardly "Yes, I was part of that initiative".  Then she sent me and a mutual friend a link to the site about her conference which is being held beachside.  I replied "wow, what a great place for a learning experience.  Bring back 3 of your learnings to share.  I am learning about trying to have a wise mind (and I sent her link to a site about the wise mind)."  She replied directly to me (removing other friend from email), "what is technique for that?"  I replied "Still very much a novice at it and still learning about it but I am trying meditation and also attempting to always remember that thoughts and feelings are fleeting-they don't always have to drive action.  I think "mutual friend name" has more skill and information on this.  How is conference today?".  She replied that she didn't think our mutual friend was good at having a wise mind and then wrote the line about trying not to hate all the people. 

The mutual friend I referred to above that received the same initial email as I did with link to the conference had responded directly to pwBPD "What is content about?  Are you a better person for taking the course?  What did you do to deserve it?)  Response from pwBPD was with me on it "Content is all the things I have done before. Met some nice people who own dogs. They are good."

I don't see how my response or our mutual friends response would have triggered difference like that.  What do you see?

Waverider, thanks for the reminder about event recollection.  I keep falling into the trap of trying to make things make logical sense.  Hence my reference to try to learn wise mind.  I do get different versions of past events.  I don't try to correct anymore.  I used to remind her of past conversations and say "don't you remember when you told me blah, we were at blah place" it doesn't ever work.  She changes topic or disputes it.     

[123Phoebe]

I don't see how my response or our mutual friends response would have triggered difference like that.  What do you see?

I see her being more open with you than with mutual friend, while attempting 'wise mind' with mutual friend, i.e., trying not to hate on mutual friend, while feeling the feelings tho, so it comes off sounding disingenuous.  Mutual friend's questions sounded a little condescending.

I'm not saying that what I see is fact.  It's just how I'm interpreting it.

[JackBlacknBlue]

I see.  Lucky me.   All the texts and exchanges from her to others that I see are positive and upbeat and engaging, while the ones I receive are laden with negativity and drama.  Before I knew what BPD was, I used to ask her why she could be 'normal' with other people but not with me.  She said she is never 'normal'. 

Just venting now. 

[waverider]

  She said she is never 'normal'. 

A bit of truth there. It is common for pwBPD to believe that

[an0ught]

I see.  Lucky me.   All the texts and exchanges from her to others that I see are positive and upbeat and engaging, while the ones I receive are laden with negativity and drama.  Before I knew what BPD was, I used to ask her why she could be 'normal' with other people but not with me.  She said she is never 'normal'. 

Just venting now. 

In order to balance herself without being able to think in grey she has to think in black and white in an alternating manner. You are an easier target of negative emotions.

Many when they come here first believe worth trying to go back to the idealization phase. We all want to be loved. But being close to someone torn internally apart is not so easy and it often results in what you described. A more robust path back to a healthy and balanced relationship is to focus on establishing healthy boundaries and to refuse being used as a dumping ground for toxic emotions. Getting respect re-established is critical to be again perceived as someone of worth - unfortunately it is also quite a bit of hard work to get there - boundaries are never easy particularly the first ones.

[Littleleft]

Hi JackBlacknBlue

I experience the same thing with my SO.  It frustrates me how he can be either caught up in talking negatively about everything for a long time (himself, other people, society, the govt etc) or totally ranting angrily and agressively at me, yet in between he can switch completely and have a conversation with a friend where he's all positive and laughing and joking. Then straight back to the negative or ranting at me after.

I've tried to speak to him about it before and he's said that those people he's suddenly nice and positive to haven't given him any reason to be negative or angry to them.  Of course meaning I have!  I find it very difficult to get the down side a lot when I can see there is the other side that he shows to other people a lot and makes them all see him as a great, happy and friendly person. I'd like to see that person in front of me more! :'(

[123Phoebe]

I see.  Lucky me.   All the texts and exchanges from her to others that I see are positive and upbeat and engaging, while the ones I receive are laden with negativity and drama.  Before I knew what BPD was, I used to ask her why she could be 'normal' with other people but not with me.  She said she is never 'normal'. 

Just venting now. 

I'm not sure that I see it the same way as you, which is kind of funny considering the subject title

Could be a subconscious attempt at triangulation.  I don't see her being really open and positive with mutual friend, more superficial.

[waverider]

A consequence that can occur is that you get desperate trying to get "these other people" to see that this is not the "real" them, as you are struggling under pressure whilst other say what a great person they are and are "lucky".

This puts you in another process of destructive behavior as you can go into victim mode, wanting others to "get it', leading to frustration. Instead of building your own sense of self, you start destroying it. Even causing more problems as you start talking behind your partners back causing further mistrust.

Truth is there is no real them, more a collection of extreme component behaviors. You need to make your own sense of worth completely independent of their unstable "realness'

[JackBlacknBlue]

waverider, you are right that I initially felt like i wanted some others to 'get it' but luckily I didn't act on that feeling. Luckily found these forums where people do get it so relieves me a lot.  I am working on the healthy boundaries now.  i get the "baiting" messages, the love bombs, cries for help but have been able to keep respectable boundaries so far. 

But to Littleleft's message, it is still hard to see everyone else around me get positivity from her in blink of an eye.  I am working on going from now understanding to acceptance. 

Thanks everyone for the messages.  it really is such a huge help.     

[Littleleft]

I'm with you JackBlacknBlue, I've never tried to get others to see why I see, as i want him to have good friendships with other people.

I'm definitely working on the understanding part at the moment, trying to understand how what I'm saying and how I'm behaving is having an impact and well as generally getting a better understanding of BPD.  I'm finding acceptance hard, but as you say, this site is a huge help.  Best of luck 

[Spacedog]

Do you find you ever get different versions told to you at different times?

My pwBPD does that... . and the versions are incompatible, inconsistent, and frequently filled with delusions.

[earthgirl]

Do you find you ever get different versions told to you at different times?

My pwBPD does that... . and the versions are incompatible, inconsistent, and frequently filled with delusions.

I've asked my pwBPD about that, when it's happened.  His response was interesting, and gave me a glimpse into his thinking:  he said that it's dangerous for me to "play secretary" and "transcribe" what he says and "read it back" to him.  He said that what he says is true, at the time he says it, but that his feelings change.  So if, to use the example here, he says everyone at the conference is nice, and then I get an earful, it's because when he was talking to them, he felt they were nice, but when talking to me, he felt differently.  And this can change over the course of three minutes, but both statements are true, because he meant both of them when he said it.

I think one of the bases for diagnosing BPD is this shifting of a sense of self or of one's reality, which I think covers this to a certain degree... . having a view of something change 180 degrees, sometimes when talking to the same person (such as a significant other) over different time periods, and sometimes based on who is being spoken to... . yes, we all can do this to a certain extent, but this is a horse of another color, an actual shifting of their reality.   

[Olinda]

Waverider said: "You need to make your own sense of worth completely independent of their unstable "realness'".

This is absolutely the crux for me. When I am in a good space, know my own worth, and feeling confident about myself, I can let the negatives from her slide right off and know that it is not about me.

When I am trying to get my own stability from her 'unstable realness', we are both screwed and unable to function, I let her bring me down and we both topple completely. 

Co-dependency is a bear.  I'm working on it. 

Thanks for this thread.

[waverider]

Anything they say now is a description of how they feel now. Even if the component facts are historical and accurate, like a series of snapshots and quotes cut and pasted from their original context. The framework onto which these facts are hung is definitely in the now. Past and present are interchangeable as there is no sense of progress from one to the next. As the now changes so does the framework. Hence ultimately the meaning of the assembled components

Learning not to take their stories literally helps

Dont think you can completely avoid being sucked in every now and then

[LoveLove]

So pwBPD mean what they say when they say it, however, their feelings can change at any moment? So ultimately they're confused? Or... . ? Which do you believe?

[waverider]

So pwBPD mean what they say when they say it, however, their feelings can change at any moment? So ultimately they're confused? Or... . ? Which do you believe?

Pretty much,

Their emotions are not considered emotions, so they are often given extreme expression, and the emotion is not as deep seated as it may sound. For example if they wish you were dead, they don't think through the seriousness of what they say, much as a child might not.

They may not think they are confused as they have no doubts at the time, they are just unstable, you maybe confused if you take them too literally.

You believe your own truth

[LoveLove]

Interesting, thank you for the explanation. Thus, no emotion is truly set in stone for them. They have a hard time deciding in a sense - so it's taken to an extreme (the large amount of love they profess or the hate they claim they have for you the next minute)... .

[patientandclear]

Jack -- I'm with Phoebe. I see it as a compliment to you.  She trusts you with more real (and more negative) feelings. You are not just getting the propaganda that everything is awesome.