Do they know?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Hi,

I just posted in introductions.  I was just text-dumped by my fiancee.  I had no idea he had BPD, and he likely would never believe it if it ever were diagnosed.  I don't even remember how I clicked on it this weekend, but everything lined up.  It's like looking at someone with acne and not knowing they have acne -- how could he not know?  It's CLEARLY every symptom, every story, every incident, every everything.  How could his ex, a psychologist, not know?  Did she?  I'm almost convinced at this point that she *must* have mentioned it to him, or at least that he must be aware of this pattern on some level.  They did go to therapy for his infidelity.  He claims to have dealt with childhood issues and would never cheat on me. 

I understand I'm not a mental health professional, but I'm not google-doctoring willy nilly.  Every story on here has literally happened to me in the last 10 months.  There are many BPD traits going on here, enough that I feel a kinship with all of you and what you're going through and I hope I can post here.

I have known since the beginning that abuse red flags were there and have talked to many friends about his rages over insignificant things.  It first happened about 2 weeks into the relationship when I cancelled a sleepover between our kids.  Mine had a fever.  He reacted badly.  I shot him a text meant for a friend about how he was overreacting and it was definitely freaking me out, and he lost it.  He sent a ton of messages, called 11 times, and then showed up at my door at night.  I felt like I walked into something I couldn't have seen coming.  What was going on?

Please don't ask me why I recycled this at this point.  He was smart? Charming? So like me in other ways? I've always seen some abuse red flags, but since he didn't hit me, I continued with a wait and see attitude. I felt confused, like I do now.

Instead of "taking it,"though, I would fight back when he lost it on me for small things (always about abandonment, like my child coming home early from my ex's and taking his time).  This got me nowhere and quickly I stopped doing all the "right" things you're supposed to do ("When you…" "I feel…" (bringing the convo back to the root of the issue).  I got attacked and belittled and name-called.  It was all my fault.  I was evil.  The first sleepover incident was all about how he would never betray our relationship by talking about it with his friends, not about how he reacted to the normal change in plans or why it made me uncomfortable. We could never talk about things that made me uncomfortable.  He always accused me of having to be right.  I kept saying, "I'm not right, these are just my needs.  They're not more correct than your needs, but I do need these things."  Well, other women evidently didn't so I was wrong about him.  I knew I was not going to get my needs met and I had to decide to stay without that.  Carrots were dangled.  I stayed.  There were monthly rages.  Sometimes I saw it coming and crossed those lines a little bit because it was the right/only choice for me and my family (I'm not leaving my kid at my ex's if the ex is letting her come home!)

Eventually, I left on vacation this month.  He didn't want me to go and offered to pay me money to stay, not to leave for a single second.  On the first day, I got tied up with family dinner and didn't get to call him until late at night.  He'd left a sarcastic text.  It felt horrible. 

For months I haven't been able to stand how he makes me feel.  This isn't how relationships are supposed to be.  This weekend I was supposed to be away with him, but what started out as "I'm depressed, we'll never be together in a house as a family! Things are taking so long!" turned into "never contact me again.  We don't associate with people like you" within three text messages.  It left me feeling, yet again, wildly confused.

Where on earth did that come from?  I was supposed to get away immediately so that he could have every second with me.  I feel whiplash.  And reading the forums, I feel this is typical, and so I also feel stupid I didn't have more insight into what was going on with him earlier.   

Anyway, I have a lot of questions about what to do (nothing) about seeking help for him, or at least trying to spread some knowledge about some of his impulsive and violent acts on others (doesn't feel safe now, though).  Mostly, I was wondering, if people have all of these patterns, and say "I'm messed up, don't be with me," and do have intelligence and life experience and personal insight, do most of them know on some level?  Would there be *any* kind way to veer the conversation toward getting help?  He is miserable, and has always talked of suicide.  He hurts others.  He has a child with some fallout.

Or is there a lot of denial and defensiveness?  Is there no way to stop this cycle for the next people in the line of fire and we should be concerned with protecting ourselves when the going gets really tough?

Anyway, thanks for listening.  I hope the push-pull gets easier as I figure out how to be o.k. without him.

 

[customary]

Hi,

I just posted in introductions.  I was just text-dumped by my fiancee.  I had no idea he had BPD, and he likely would never believe it if it ever were diagnosed.  I don't even remember how I clicked on it this weekend, but everything lined up.  It's like looking at someone with acne and not knowing they have acne -- how could he not know?  It's CLEARLY every symptom, every story, every incident, every everything.  How could his ex, a psychologist, not know?  Did she?  I'm almost convinced at this point that she *must* have mentioned it to him, or at least that he must be aware of this pattern on some level.  They did go to therapy for his infidelity.  He claims to have dealt with childhood issues and would never cheat on me. 

I understand I'm not a mental health professional, but I'm not google-doctoring willy nilly.  Every story on here has literally happened to me in the last 10 months.  There are many BPD traits going on here, enough that I feel a kinship with all of you and what you're going through and I hope I can post here.

I have known since the beginning that abuse red flags were there and have talked to many friends about his rages over insignificant things.  It first happened about 2 weeks into the relationship when I cancelled a sleepover between our kids.  Mine had a fever.  He reacted badly.  I shot him a text meant for a friend about how he was overreacting and it was definitely freaking me out, and he lost it.  He sent a ton of messages, called 11 times, and then showed up at my door at night.  I felt like I walked into something I couldn't have seen coming.  What was going on?

Please don't ask me why I recycled this at this point.  He was smart? Charming? So like me in other ways? I've always seen some abuse red flags, but since he didn't hit me, I continued with a wait and see attitude. I felt confused, like I do now.

Instead of "taking it,"though, I would fight back when he lost it on me for small things (always about abandonment, like my child coming home early from my ex's and taking his time).  This got me nowhere and quickly I stopped doing all the "right" things you're supposed to do ("When you…" "I feel…" (bringing the convo back to the root of the issue).  I got attacked and belittled and name-called.  It was all my fault.  I was evil.  The first sleepover incident was all about how he would never betray our relationship by talking about it with his friends, not about how he reacted to the normal change in plans or why it made me uncomfortable. We could never talk about things that made me uncomfortable.  He always accused me of having to be right.  I kept saying, "I'm not right, these are just my needs.  They're not more correct than your needs, but I do need these things."  Well, other women evidently didn't so I was wrong about him.  I knew I was not going to get my needs met and I had to decide to stay without that.  Carrots were dangled.  I stayed.  There were monthly rages.  Sometimes I saw it coming and crossed those lines a little bit because it was the right/only choice for me and my family (I'm not leaving my kid at my ex's if the ex is letting her come home!)

Eventually, I left on vacation this month.  He didn't want me to go and offered to pay me money to stay, not to leave for a single second.  On the first day, I got tied up with family dinner and didn't get to call him until late at night.  He'd left a sarcastic text.  It felt horrible. 

For months I haven't been able to stand how he makes me feel.  This isn't how relationships are supposed to be.  This weekend I was supposed to be away with him, but what started out as "I'm depressed, we'll never be together in a house as a family! Things are taking so long!" turned into "never contact me again.  We don't associate with people like you" within three text messages.  It left me feeling, yet again, wildly confused.

Where on earth did that come from?  I was supposed to get away immediately so that he could have every second with me.  I feel whiplash.  And reading the forums, I feel this is typical, and so I also feel stupid I didn't have more insight into what was going on with him earlier.   

Anyway, I have a lot of questions about what to do (nothing) about seeking help for him, or at least trying to spread some knowledge about some of his impulsive and violent acts on others (doesn't feel safe now, though).  Mostly, I was wondering, if people have all of these patterns, and say "I'm messed up, don't be with me," and do have intelligence and life experience and personal insight, do most of them know on some level?  Would there be *any* kind way to veer the conversation toward getting help?  He is miserable, and has always talked of suicide.  He hurts others.  He has a child with some fallout.

Or is there a lot of denial and defensiveness?  Is there no way to stop this cycle for the next people in the line of fire and we should be concerned with protecting ourselves when the going gets really tough?

Anyway, thanks for listening.  I hope the push-pull gets easier as I figure out how to be o.k. without him.

 

[jibber]

Or is there a lot of denial and defensiveness?  Is there no way to stop this cycle for the next people in the line of fire and we should be concerned with protecting ourselves when the going gets really tough?

If he really shows the classic BPD traits, it will be a frustrating experience. It's too much shame for them to aknowledge anything wrong on their part. Trying to get him to aknowledge anything, or let alone get help, will be like repeatedly banging your head against a brickwall. It will leave you extremely frustrated.

The cycle will never stop unless he wants help. You trying to help him will probably make it worse (telling him he needs help suggests there is something wrong with him... . Too much shame for him (read above)).

As you correctly write yourself, you should focus on protecting yourself. You don't deserve his abuse, and it's not your fault. Take good care of YOURSELF.

[Narellan]

Ive often thought " I wonder why our paths crossed'. Maybe im the one that can help him. He once said to me "Narellan, i thank you from the bottom of my heart. Without even knowing it you have helped me deal with issues ive been battling on my own for my whole life"

That just sticks with me. Why is he battling alone with it? Can i say i understand, how about you research a,b,c ? Ive played it out in my head and it never goes well. Im afraid of his reaction. Im not a professional, so how dare i diagnose him. Doesnt matter what my motives are, ie just to help him find some peace, because im never going to be with him again, but i feel for him still and maybe i should help. Imagine from his point of view, me telling him hes mentally ill? Its just not right. So hard as it is to sit back, unless hes disregulated screaming and crying 'whats wrong with me?" I have to stay clear and keep my opinions to myself.

I will never judge you on a recycle, weve all done that. I recycled 3 times in 4 months. The first one he had his exgf sleeping with him for 2 weeks, i was oblivious.

I was dumped with one sentence. "were just friends". An hour earlier i was the love of his life. Apparently i misread everything.

Oh yeah and my ex was furious if i spoke to anyone about us. Especially to my best friend. He was ropable i told her we'd slept together. Ditched me for 2 weeks until i promised i wouldnt discuss things personal. So i did as he asked.

Our final split he recycled me with her.

[customary]

I was dumped with one sentence. "were just friends". An hour earlier i was the love of his life. Apparently i misread everything.

Oh yeah and my ex was furious if i spoke to anyone about us. Especially to my best friend. He was ropable i told her we'd slept together. Ditched me for 2 weeks until i promised i wouldnt discuss things personal. So i did as he asked.

Our final split he recycled me with her.

Thank you for sharing this.  It's too familiar, from various cycles.  what on earth did I do wrong this time?  Could anyone be more acquiescent? 

The answer is no.  I could not have sacrificed my own life to be there 247 hanging on his needs.  I tried to explain early on that it wasn't healthy, it was very Romeo and Juliet-y, and no, I wouldn't die without him, and I wanted a mature relationship (i.e. we didn't have to be together every second, especially as we both had custody issues that meant kids should have some stable space outside mom's dating life), but this only meant he would have to come to terms with if he could stay in a relationship with someone who didn't love him as much as he loved me. 

That does feel like a set-up, like there was never a way to be everything he wanted. 

But, I still wonder if the community needs a little damage control.  I guess I'll have to wait until that feels safe and make steps toward making some of his usual targets safer.

[Narellan]

When I first started posting on here, confused... Someone said to me " it doesn't matter how good you are to him, he will still turn on you" it's the nature of BPD. I really identified with that, and it made me feel less of a failure. I know I couldn't have done any more, or loved him any more. It wasn't enough.

What do you mean about the community needing damage control? Warning them of him? I personally wouldn't do that. Let his actions speak for themselves. You will look like the jilted lover and he will paint you blacker than black. It could escalate into something really bad for you. 

[laelle]

My ex knew he was ill, but didnt seem much in control to change it.  People cured his pain, and when that one stoped working, he finds another one to cure his pain.

Never meant anything he said.  Words were only said to bring on the next dosage of pain relief. 

Regardless of how "good" you try to be, they will cut off that goodness, and give you their emotional garbage.  It then becomes your garbage.  You cant be "good enough" with all that garbage.

You will chase your tail forever trying.

[earthgirl]

all about how he would never betray our relationship by talking about it with his friends, not about how he reacted to the normal change in plans or why it made me uncomfortable.  

THIS!  There is NO ONE I can talk to about our relationship... . any discussion with anyone about us -- even to my best friend -- is seen as betrayal. My best friend is really even-handed, and there have been times in the past when she's weighed in to say that she thinks I have over-reacted.  But that doesn't matter.  The discussion itself is seen as betrayal. 

My husband is undiagnosed, and doesn't believe it, either.  He knows I've batted around the theory with my best friend that he's BPD (snooped and read my emails... . ) but even though he meets most of the diagnostic criteria in spades and even admits to having those issues, for some reason, it doesn't add up for him.  He can say, well, yeah, ok, I've been suicidal, and yeah, I've been a cutter, and yeah, I drink too much, and yeah, I have abandonment issues, and yeah, I have intense mood swings, and yeah, I tend to paint people as black or white, but that doesn't mean I've got some personality disorder." 

How does he believe this?  He doesn't believe it's a real diagnosis, for anyone.  He says it's a made-up label for a hodge-podge of issues so therapists can check off a box.