Confronting lies in a constructive rather than destructive way

[Fanie]

When you find the BPD is lying

and you know the truth

should you tell her / him that he / she is lying and / or put the truth to her / him ?

in other words correct him / her ?

?

[mywifecrazy]

When you find the BPD is lying

and you know the truth

should you tell her / him that he / she is lying and / or put the truth to her / him ?

in other words correct him / her ?

?

I found out that my uBPDxw would sit there and AGAIN lie to my face when I confronted her with STONE COLD EVIDENCE to prove she was lying. Is is SICK! They are pathological liars and NOTHING will change that. Their whole existence is a lie. Think about it everything they want you to believe about them is a lie.  The other thing my X would do when confronted with the truth was to FLIP OUT and start yelling at me while trying to remove herself from the confrontation. SHE COULDNT HANDLE THE TRUTH... . It was painful to watch. Like a spoiled little child having a temper tantrum!

You will NEVER, I repeat NEVER change or correct them!

[FigureIt]

Here's a classic lie for you that just happened this weekend.  I had a communion party for my daughter this weekend.  I sent out the invitations 4 weeks ago.  When I sent out the invites I specifically asked my uBPDbf who of his friends he would like me to invite.  (I didn't want people to feel obligated to give my daughter a gift, since they don't really know her)  So, I only invited 2 couples (of his friends) who actually know my daughter. 

The day of the party he tells me that he texted 4 of his other friends and invited them "asking them if they got their invite" which he knows didn't happen, and then telling them it must of gotten lost in the mail.  Of the 4 friends all had plans except for one who did come.  Then during the party he starts telling the story of how the invites went out 2 weeks ago, and somehow some got lost in the mail.

I don't understand this at all.  If he wanted his other friends invited I had no problem doing that.  Although, he did tell me the day before the party "he wasn't sure if he would be there."  Because, when I'm irritated/frustrated with him i'm "not nice to him... . I have a TONE in my voice."

[Perdita]

The other thing my X would do when confronted with the truth was to FLIP OUT and start yelling at me while trying to remove herself from the confrontation. SHE COULDNT HANDLE THE TRUTH... . It was painful to watch. Like a spoiled little child having a temper tantrum!

This is very familiar.  Two months ago I confronted my BPbf about a lie  and he reacted in the same way.  Since then I have realized that he not only lies to cover up his lies, but he will also try to distract me by blaming me for something unrelated.  Basically to get me to feel that I am the bad one and owe him an apology.  It's just a pity that it took me such a long time to realize this trick of his.  Could have saved myself a lot of pain.

When I confronted him about this specific lie, he started shouting over the phone and told me that he didn't like that I called someone a 'whore' (to him not anyone else).  Now keep in mind that this was when I found out he had taken this trash to breakfast and twice to dinner during her week long stay in town.  He lied to me about seeing her.  This happened a week before I confronted him about the totally unrelated lie that had him flipping out. So he tried to throw that in my face as if I should apologize for getting upset about him sneaking around with another woman.   Fortunately, it was in that moment that I realized it was a trick and that he had used it on me many times in the past to distract me and get me to apologize to him!  Needless to say, I don't fall for this anymore.

[Perdita]

I don't understand this at all.  If he wanted his other friends invited I had no problem doing that.  Although, he did tell me the day before the party "he wasn't sure if he would be there."  Because, when I'm irritated/frustrated with him i'm "not nice to him... . I have a TONE in my voice."

Sounds like he is deliberately trying to get you to feel and look bad.  I think it could also be his way of trying to be in control of something you were in charge of (planning the communion party).

[corraline]

I used to feel that when a lie was confronted and the truth came out, i would panic... . ok i thought now what do i do with this ?  Can i handle this ? Am i going to let this one go? is this a good thing that he is being honest and we can work through it now ? Maybe this is good , maybe we are working through things and this is part of working through difficulties in a relationship. But i just could not really get past the lies that were building. It was really just eroding my trust in him even more. not the other way around. He used to always bring up the fact that i was breaking down his defenses and it was a good thing. We were getting somewhere. i was always conflicted between these two things. I never felt good.

In the last conversations he sent me a text thanking me for challenging him to be the only woman he has ever been in a monogamous relationship with. he said he was grateful for this because now he knew he could do it.  I started to feel "special" again,(for a fleeting moment mind you ) then i thought no... . then i felt angry, i felt used somehow. I also thought, you know this could also be another lie, since he had told me that commitment and monogamy were an issue in the past but he had achieved it with some women. so that was a lie.   ugh.  I just decided that it didn't matter anymore , i can not feel trust with him in this relationship period.   I've probably told this already on here but still ruminating occasionally and processing here.

Thanks for listening.

[Perdita]

I just decided that it didn't matter anymore , i can not feel trust with him in this relationship period.

This is what makes me sad in my r/s too.  Something interesting did happen over the weekend though.  We've been together for over a year and 2 months ago I confronted him for the first time about his lies.  This led to us not speaking for a week.  The other day I asked him about something. Nothing important, mind you.  He answered my question, but then - after a whole story - suddenly said "wait, I'm lying" and then told me the truth!  I didn't ask him why he lied at first and instead let it go.  :)on't get me wrong, I do know he still lies and often.  He has probably gone deeper underground when lying about more important things.  It just surprised me that he admitted he was lying and then told the truth about something.  Probably he realized that I would hear the truth sooner rather than later through friends and that's why he changed his tune.  

[FigureIt]

The thing is I know he lies, or intentional omits or doesn't include me and then acts like he didn't know.  And I agree with Corraline that "I can not feel trust with him in this relationship period... . "  That is why this relationship is on a downward swing.  I would leave now if I had $20,000 to put a down payment on another house and pay for a 1day moving service.  But until that time I just have to manage and accept.

He is so continuously moopy and unhappy that there is no fun.  The only time he is somewhat happy is when he is drinking and inevitably if I don't agree with him on something at the end of the night he will become nasty.

I believe he truly lives in his own fantasy world.  His lies are truths and he doesn't know the difference. 

[corraline]

The only time he is somewhat happy is when he is drinking and inevitably if I don't agree with him on something at the end of the night he will become nasty.

i hear you FigureIt

this is what was happening alot closer to the end.  i did not understand tho that things (anger) were probably brewing for him for a long time under the surface.   i think the alcohol unleashed some of it.

[mywifecrazy]

I believe he truly lives in his own fantasy world.  His lies are truths and he doesn't know the difference. 

My God it's just so dam CRAZY when you try try to wrap your head around it.  And I'll always be exposed to it because I have 2 kids with my pathological lying uBPDxw!

[Boss302]

How prevalent is lying as a part of BPD?

When do they most lie?

How can you tell?

Thanks... .

Well, I lie detector system with my ex. If her lips were moving, and sounds were coming out of her mouth, she was generally lying. 

[Boss302]

... . but are they really lying, or is their emotional state so chaotic that a lie FEELS like the truth?

[FigureIt]

I think in some cases they know they lie.  Other times, especially when they lie about something stupid I'm not sure if they know truth.  I think their world (perceived environment) is so skewed, us nons would not even begin to understand.

An example of skewed at my home:  I had this bra that was 10yrs. old and I no longer wear.  I had washed it and was going to put it in the donation pile.  I had left it on the couch when I was putting away the clothes I do wear and the next day the dog got ahold of it and was carrying it around, I didn't really care the dog was carrying it cuz it was old and I was giving it away.  My uBPDbf interpreted this as I was looking to or having an affair because this lace bra was being carried around by the dog.  Not quite sure how you get to me having an affair from that but even when I explained (which was pointless), he still thought that there was some hidden meaning.

[OutOfEgypt]

I agree with mywifecrazy.  I've confronted my ex on things, and she would just deny it to my face.  There were a few times I really busted her, but I didn't bother confronting her.  I got her booted out of the house.  Then suddenly she wanted to talk and was all apologetic.  She could be confronted by other family members about her behavior and just lie about it, too.  Once, her brother and her neices and nephews were watching television at her sister's house (where she was living because I booted her out with a court order when I found out about her last affair), and she was in the bedroom with her lover, whom she told everybody was "gay".  Well, they could all hear her in there doing all that they were doing.  Her brother was so freaked out he turned up the TV all the way so that the kids wouldn't hear it.  Her sisters husband found out and freaked out and kicked her out.  To this day, she denies to her sister that it ever happened.  Yet, somehow everybody in that house figured out on that day that her "friend" was not really gay.  Hmm... .

So, I'm not sure what the point of confrontation is.  You aren't going to really get them to change.  You are probably only inviting further manipulation.  They will just further lie and manipulate you just to keep the status quo going the way they want.  In my humble opinion, it is better to know the truth for yourself and then act on it for your own life.  Let the consequences fall on them.  Confronting and telling them sounds almost more like you are trying to rescue them (and maybe yourself from losing them).

[OutOfEgypt]

FigureIt wrote:

I think in some cases they know they lie.  Other times, especially when they lie about something stupid I'm not sure if they know truth.  I think their world (perceived environment) is so skewed, us nons would not even begin to understand.

Yes, I agree.  I have felt sometimes that she knows she is lying and is doing it intentionally, but other times it almost seems like she believes her own lies.  It is very strange, indeed.  Not normal!

[Grey Kitty]

I think the better question is why and when should you confront your partner's lies?

If you do confront them with a lie or 'bust' them with a lie in front of somebody else, it *will* be invalidating, and they will react badly, and it will be adding more fuel to the fires of dysregulation and crazyness.

You aren't going to convince a pwBPD who just lied that they shouldn't do that, and they will then stop lying. 

You may need to address a lie to  protect yourself or others. What sort of situation would it take?

[AimingforMastery]

I think the better question is why and when should you confront your partner's lies?

If you do confront them with a lie or 'bust' them with a lie in front of somebody else, it *will* be invalidating, and they will react badly, and it will be adding more fuel to the fires of dysregulation and crazyness.

You aren't going to convince a pwBPD who just lied that they shouldn't do that, and they will then stop lying. 

You may need to address a lie to  protect yourself or others. What sort of situation would it take?

It is very difficult to confront a lie in a positive manner.

Options include saying - "you don't need to keep anything from me" or "you're better than that"

But as a general rule if you are deciding then I think, as you have the option to leave the person behind, it's best to speak up otherwise you will get sick.

[Fanie]

What I learnt here: is that all BPD's are different !

My wife lies about once in 2 or 3 weeks - But, its a BIG one then

she goes out and ... . return 3 days later ... .

Yeah it tough love !

It started that way 10 years after we met !

What went wrong in that beautiful head ?

"God - forgive her (us all) as she does not know what she is doing"

[AimingforMastery]

What I learnt here: is that all BPD's are different !

My wife lies about once in 2 or 3 weeks - But, its a BIG one then

she goes out and ... . return 3 days later ... .

Yeah it tough love !

It started that way 10 years after we met !

What went wrong in that beautiful head ?

"God - forgive her (us all) as she does not know what she is doing"

HOW about this for honesty

I have no idea when she lies... .

[Fanie]

This is the thing of my wife

She does nor scold, fight, noisy anything like that

(maybe because of the 2 kiddos)

She plays the triangulation (mostly), recycling ... . game

maybe coz she is rather very intelligent?

Her lying is 90% to get away for a weekend

i.e she will tell me her father is sick in hospital

I know he is up and about but we don't have contact

(I think I need to pay him a visit?)

The thing is; she made sure over many years that I am not close

(actually very far) from her family members -

they are 200Km from our town (also she is black, im white)

She is soo very clever

But very stupid when lying

[Fanie]

AFM

I am thinking carefully about this ... .

What I said is true HOWEVER ... .

"I don't allow her to lie" ... . example:

She will be on her mobile chatting for 30 min non-stop

in her native language

From her "tone" I know its a man on the other side ... . no-doubt

But I don't ask ... . coz I know she will not tell me the truth ... .

(no boundaries !)

But I know her so well when she lies

and one of the things that happens; is she gets furious when I question her !

[OutOfEgypt]

AimingForMastery said

I have no idea when she lies... .

While there were definitely things I sensed she was lying about, it was like that for me, too.  There are undoubtedly many things I still don't know about and things I took the blame for because she lied and I believed her.  She was an is a very "good" liar -not that this is something one wants to be good at!