back on the board after a long break

[six]

I have not been on this board for a while.  Things have been going relatively well with my BpDS26.  He has a relationship with a wonderful girl and he seems really happy.  we have had some nice interactions with the two of them over the past few months.  I started wondering if he really has BPD. (HAH)

This week, the two of them spent the weeknd at our house.  we have not spent that much time with him in months.  By Sunday morning, I sensed that it was time for him to go home, but he started planning  a picninc in the park for the whole family.  he was organizing the food and the sports equipment when two of my other kids (DS19 and DD9) got into a little spat.  They each gave each other a light smack and then it was over.  I was standing there, as was BPDs26.  BPDs demanded that i do something and that i not allow DD9 to be abused by DS19.  I told him i was not going to get involved and that i did not want to discuss that topic with him.  (wrong answer.)

within minutes, BPDs was swearing, screaming and taking punches at my DS19 and my DH.  neither of them punched back (they are both black belts in martial arts).  BPDs left the house with his girlfriend and she was sobbing hysterically.

now, BPDs would like to meet with me and dh to discuss dd9's safety and security as he believes that she is an abused child (not) we are abusers(not) and it is up to him to protect her.  

i do not want to meet with him, but i also understand that he is trying to ratchet down the tension.  any ideas on the correct response?  he has always maintained that we are abusers and he has justified all of his outrageous behavior over the past few years by telling us that he has an ethical obligation to protect our other children from our abuse.  i recognize that in his eyes he was an abused child, but my other kids see him as the abuser, not us and it is him that they want protection from.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[jellibeans]

Welcome back six... . I am sorry you continue to struggle with your son. It seems a good deal of the conflict comes into play when his sisters are involved... . also when he feels the same standards are not applied equally. Your son continues to travel back in time and try to right the wrongs done to him.

I am not sure how you are being acused or being the abuser in this conflict... . wasn't it your d19 that hit your d9?

Can I ask you if your son had hit d9 would your response had been the same? I really feel that this is a trigger for you son and once again I feel he thinks you are taking d19 side.

[pessim-optimist]

I also want to say: welcome back, six!

I am sorry it went down hill so fast... . it seems to be a bit of a pickle now... .

What is it that you would ideally want in this situation? Is any part of that a realistic possibility?

Are you looking for a way to smooth things over and move on, or are you looking at this as a way to start a conversation about getting physical and setting a limit regarding that?

Is there anything about what he is saying that you could validate? Perhaps that it must have been difficult for him to witness the squabble between his siblings and that it was a difficult and traumatic morning for the whole family, and then complete in the SET format what you would like to say (how you propose to move forward).

Also, after he got physical, how did his leaving the house happened? Was he asked to leave, or did he leave on his own?

What about his gf? Do you think she has any influence on him, also - do you think he is likely to lose her over this?

[Kate4queen]

I'm so sorry Six, this sounds just like the sort of thing my son would do.

I think I'd be asking myself what I want to achieve from this situation. Would meeting your son make things better, or simply give him a platform to rant at you about abuse and his siblings? What does your gut say?

It sounds to me like somewhere he knows he blew it and in typical BPD fashion he is projecting that anger and humiliation outward and making you the villains of the piece.

What will you achieve by seeing him? I've learned not to let my son dictate these meetings. They never turn out well for everyone else and usually make things worse.

[six]

thank you for the responses.

As to how I became the abuser, he believes that I stood by and allowed his father to brutalize him when he was a child.  (there is some truth to this, because on a few occasions when he was in his teens, my husband got physical with him and I was not able to stop that.  Both me and my DH have apologized numerous times for that and taken ownership of it.  my DH has never touched any of the other kids in anger.)  I recognize that he is still fighting a battle and trying to right the wrongs of the past.  but  in his eyes, every interaction in the family involves abuse and I am constantly being put on the defensive by him.

as far as what do I want to get out of the situation, that is a really good question.  I would like to live in a world where my son does not get violent in my presence.  I have told him that I cannot tolerate this, but when he gets riled up, and out of control there is no stopping him .  I know he wants to patch things up with us, probably in part because his gf really likes us and wants to bond with us (they are planning to get married).  I just feel like I continue to put our family at risk when he is permitted to be around us.

his gf told my dd22 that he seems to always need someone to be mad at.  I have seen this too over the years, no sooner does he patch it up with one person, he finds the next one to get into a problem with.  I saw the red flags when he told me Dd9 was being abused and I said I don't want to talk about that.  looking back, that was a big mistake,  but it feels like I am the one who has to take responsibility for making the wrong response, and he never takes responsibility for his over the top responses of becoming physically violent and verbally abusive.

thanks again for helping me process this

[pessim-optimist]

As to how I became the abuser, he believes that I stood by and allowed his father to brutalize him when he was a child.  (there is some truth to this, because on a few occasions when he was in his teens, my husband got physical with him and I was not able to stop that.  Both me and my DH have apologized numerous times for that and taken ownership of it. 

How did he react to these? Any more validating that needs to be done to soothe his pain? Perhaps just validating and then moving on to shift the attention to present/future versus past?

as far as what do I want to get out of the situation, that is a really good question.  I would like to live in a world where my son does not get violent in my presence.  I have told him that I cannot tolerate this, but when he gets riled up, and out of control there is no stopping him .

Ok, this is probably something workable... . With time and practice, you can see when things are spiraling out of control - and there might be some options for boundaries to prevent things getting even more out of control into the physical realm. Kind of catching it before it gets too far with appropriate boundaries. 

 I know he wants to patch things up with us, probably in part because his gf really likes us and wants to bond with us (they are planning to get married).  I just feel like I continue to put our family at risk when he is permitted to be around us.

If you don't think meeting would work for now, do you think that e-mailing might deescalate things a bit?

his gf told my dd22 that he seems to always need someone to be mad at.  I have seen this too over the years, no sooner does he patch it up with one person, he finds the next one to get into a problem with.

Hm... . I have seen it too at times w/ my step-daughter, she usually uses the blow-up story to gain the next person's favor, and support that she did the right thing as a way to gain closeness with the next person. It must be painful to live that way.

I saw the red flags when he told me Dd9 was being abused and I said I don't want to talk about that.  looking back, that was a big mistake,  but it feels like I am the one who has to take responsibility for making the wrong response, and he never takes responsibility for his over the top responses of becoming physically violent and verbally abusive.

Yes, that about sums it up... . Until they get help, they are not likely to take responsibility for their actions.

We get lots of do-overs, and we get better at spotting problems and responding in a less triggering way... .