uBPDw filed for divorce yesterday - devastated

[Matt]

Well the interesting thing is, I gave all the same information to my first attorney, and his approach was completely different - he didn't do anything I've mentioned here - no depositions, no Custody Evaluation or psych evals, no discussions with the other side to stop the accusations.

The same information, given to two attorneys, and they took completely different approaches - the first one thoroughly ineffective and the second one pretty effective.  (Since then I've learned some stuff my second attorney should have done and didn't, but she was ten times more effective than the first guy.)

That pattern is very common here - we choose an attorney when we're under stress, and pretty often he has many of the same characteristics that attracted us to our spouses.  Then when that doesn't work, we usually stick with the first attorney way too long, but finally reach out to someone else who takes a different approach and gets much better results... .

[formflier]

The same information, given to two attorneys, and they took completely different approaches - the first one thoroughly ineffective and the second one pretty effective.  (Since then I've learned some stuff my second attorney should have done and didn't, but she was ten times more effective than the first guy.)

That pattern is very common here - we choose an attorney when we're under stress, and pretty often he has many of the same characteristics that attracted us to our spouses.  Then when that doesn't work, we usually stick with the first attorney way too long, but finally reach out to someone else who takes a different approach and gets much better results... .

I am very luck that my L has been my L for years.  If you remember he became a single dad because of a mood disorder (and some other co morbid stuff) to his kids.  He got sole custody.

He is a wise man, has kept me out of trouble over the years in many deals... . and given good advice.

We have chatted about that he may be too close... . and it just depends on how things go.

If it turns ugly and we go "scorched earth"... . he may not be the guy.

That being said... . he personally understands the importance of have a non-disordered person in charge of the kids

His wife was doing stuff way worse than mine is right now.

I'm totally aware that she can get worse... . she being my wife... . and I am actually considering myself lucky that she has not to this point.

Are comments like this considered a "thread hijack"?

Not wanting to break the rules of the board... . but I think good information to exchange.

[ForeverDad]

The same information, given to two attorneys, and they took completely different approaches - the first one thoroughly ineffective and the second one pretty effective... .

Then when that doesn't work, we usually stick with the first attorney way too long... .

We have chatted about that he may be too close... . and it just depends on how things go.

I've discussed both topics with my lawyer.  After all, I had him for 8 years.

In some ways he is the "problem solving attorney" Bil Eddy writes about.  But sometimes he would grandstand in court like loud Baron Bombast in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.  The fact that he seemed somewhat unprepared - I was over-prepared - was balanced by his affordable billings.  (This last time he said, "I prepared a bill for $23K, can you pay me $x.xK?)

I sometimes thought he was a bit too accepting and not proactive enough, that maybe I should consider other lawyers.  One day he responded, ":)o you want a $5K divorce or a $30K divorce?"  Yeah, looking back, I wish it were that low, but I count myself fortunate, others have sunk $100K or more into divorce just to stay an involved parent.

And at least once he told me that he liked me, trusted me and that meant he might not be the best ( = professionally detached) lawyer for me.

(A brief thread hijack isn't too bad if it is helpful and we get back on track.  )

[teeoneup]

I feel your pain.  My uBPDstbx went on a search and destroy campaign within our social circle.  Some took her side, some backed away from both of us and our kids.  I tried to fight fire with fire and reach out to tell the rest of the story, but found I didn't have the energy to do what she was doing.  I see past friends in the store and get a lot of strange looks.  I can only imagine what they have been told or believe.  I just smile and say hi.  You only have so much energy and time in a day, I have chosen to spend it in a positive way.  I refuse to engage my ex in her negativity. 

Like an earlier poster said-you find out who your true friends are.  And it made me proactive to seek out new friends and relationships.

My kids were exposed to my wife and her antics far too long.  I think (hope) that the longer they are around me they will take on my demeanor and see how a healthy person deals with life.  Give them lots of love, be honest with them and listen. 

[Iforget]

Livednlearned wrote that she kept copies of papers in binders. I had read about this else where also. My question is, do you punch holes in them or do you have to use page protectors? I ask because the L said no papers could be written on or marked. It's only been three weeks and I already have a box full of documents.

[Panda39]

Livednlearned wrote that she kept copies of papers in binders. I had read about this else where also. My question is, do you punch holes in them or do you have to use page protectors? I ask because the L said no papers could be written on or marked. It's only been three weeks and I already have a box full of documents.

When we put binders together for court my SO and I just 3 hole punched them. We had to make copies for everyone (got expensive copying a full 3" binder over and over again)  We called the original binder "The Book of Doom"   

[livednlearned]

Livednlearned wrote that she kept copies of papers in binders. I had read about this else where also. My question is, do you punch holes in them or do you have to use page protectors? I ask because the L said no papers could be written on or marked. It's only been three weeks and I already have a box full of documents.

My documents were emails, school records, medical records. All of them were hole punched. If you do it well, then your attorney doesn't have to have someone in his or her office to it. My lawyer calls them trial notebooks. There is a table of contents, plus any relevant orders, and then sections are numbered.

I didn't know all that, because this was a deposition and we hadn't been to court yet. But I was pretty close -- I had tabbed sections organized by themes. Then she went through the themes and picked out emails she wanted to use to make her points.

Themes were: false allegations, threats, name-calling/abuse, admission or evidence of alcohol/substance abuse.

Get the best 3-ring binder you can -- make sure the ring is tough enough. My attorney has reinforcements on all of her documents because paper tears so easily.

Putting together a good binder can save you tons of money if you do it well enough the lawyer doesn't have to. I've saved myself thousands. When it came time for trial, though, I let her office do it because it was taking a lot of time to try and coordinate, and she said it was going to come out even. I think she wanted her binders done the exact way she wanted them done -- and the judges also tend to have a way they like them prepared.

[Matt]

Livednlearned wrote that she kept copies of papers in binders. I had read about this else where also. My question is, do you punch holes in them or do you have to use page protectors? I ask because the L said no papers could be written on or marked. It's only been three weeks and I already have a box full of documents.

My documents were emails, school records, medical records. All of them were hole punched. If you do it well, then your attorney doesn't have to have someone in his or her office to it. My lawyer calls them trial notebooks. There is a table of contents, plus any relevant orders, and then sections are numbered.

I didn't know all that, because this was a deposition and we hadn't been to court yet. But I was pretty close -- I had tabbed sections organized by themes. Then she went through the themes and picked out emails she wanted to use to make her points.

Themes were: false allegations, threats, name-calling/abuse, admission or evidence of alcohol/substance abuse.

Get the best 3-ring binder you can -- make sure the ring is tough enough. My attorney has reinforcements on all of her documents because paper tears so easily.

Putting together a good binder can save you tons of money if you do it well enough the lawyer doesn't have to. I've saved myself thousands. When it came time for trial, though, I let her office do it because it was taking a lot of time to try and coordinate, and she said it was going to come out even. I think she wanted her binders done the exact way she wanted them done -- and the judges also tend to have a way they like them prepared.

My lawyer told me more-or-less the same - any of this work I could do would save a lot of legal fees.  She told me how to organize it so the judge and the other attorney would be able to use it;  if it's not organized well the other lawyer might complain and the judge might throw it out.

[formflier]

Livednlearned wrote that she kept copies of papers in binders. I had read about this else where also. My question is, do you punch holes in them or do you have to use page protectors? I ask because the L said no papers could be written on or marked. It's only been three weeks and I already have a box full of documents.

My documents were emails, school records, medical records. All of them were hole punched. If you do it well, then your attorney doesn't have to have someone in his or her office to it. My lawyer calls them trial notebooks. There is a table of contents, plus any relevant orders, and then sections are numbered.

I didn't know all that, because this was a deposition and we hadn't been to court yet. But I was pretty close -- I had tabbed sections organized by themes. Then she went through the themes and picked out emails she wanted to use to make her points.

Themes were: false allegations, threats, name-calling/abuse, admission or evidence of alcohol/substance abuse.

Get the best 3-ring binder you can -- make sure the ring is tough enough. My attorney has reinforcements on all of her documents because paper tears so easily.

Putting together a good binder can save you tons of money if you do it well enough the lawyer doesn't have to. I've saved myself thousands. When it came time for trial, though, I let her office do it because it was taking a lot of time to try and coordinate, and she said it was going to come out even. I think she wanted her binders done the exact way she wanted them done -- and the judges also tend to have a way they like them prepared.

I am working on this now... . as a backup... . just in case.

So... . when organized by themes... . do some of the documents appear in multiple places?  So... a theme of "paranoid delusions" might have something in it about the baby I had with a lady (just to be clear... . that was delusional charge...   )  and then that might also show up in a "false charges" section where she accused me of falsifying travel claims (a federal crime)... . when I signed my name to what I actually did for travel. 

She claims I would come back early from Navy trips... . spend a few days with my on the side honey... . and then get dropped off at airport by that honey... . so my uBPDw could pick me up.  uBPDw was non the wiser to this until she "caught" me one day.  Catching me means she didn't see me right when she walked in the door to the airport.

sigh... .

[livednlearned]

Livednlearned wrote that she kept copies of papers in binders. I had read about this else where also. My question is, do you punch holes in them or do you have to use page protectors? I ask because the L said no papers could be written on or marked. It's only been three weeks and I already have a box full of documents.

My documents were emails, school records, medical records. All of them were hole punched. If you do it well, then your attorney doesn't have to have someone in his or her office to it. My lawyer calls them trial notebooks. There is a table of contents, plus any relevant orders, and then sections are numbered.

I didn't know all that, because this was a deposition and we hadn't been to court yet. But I was pretty close -- I had tabbed sections organized by themes. Then she went through the themes and picked out emails she wanted to use to make her points.

Themes were: false allegations, threats, name-calling/abuse, admission or evidence of alcohol/substance abuse.

Get the best 3-ring binder you can -- make sure the ring is tough enough. My attorney has reinforcements on all of her documents because paper tears so easily.

Putting together a good binder can save you tons of money if you do it well enough the lawyer doesn't have to. I've saved myself thousands. When it came time for trial, though, I let her office do it because it was taking a lot of time to try and coordinate, and she said it was going to come out even. I think she wanted her binders done the exact way she wanted them done -- and the judges also tend to have a way they like them prepared.

I am working on this now... . as a backup... . just in case.

So... . when organized by themes... . do some of the documents appear in multiple places?  So... a theme of "paranoid delusions" might have something in it about the baby I had with a lady (just to be clear... . that was delusional charge...   )  and then that might also show up in a "false charges" section where she accused me of falsifying travel claims (a federal crime)... . when I signed my name to what I actually did for travel. 

I think what you should start with is a bunch of questions for your L. Ask him what patterns will matter in court. Does he want to suggest that your wife suffers from paranoid delusions? If so, how do those delusions affect the kids. Does he want to suggest that she alienates the kids from you? Does he want to show a severe pattern of erratic decision-making that creates instability for the family?

Often, we begin these proceedings caring about the details of what it was like to live with a person suffering from mental illness. We care what they did to us, how they broke our heart, how they made it impossible for us to remain married. That's different than what court cares about. They care about the well-being of the kids.

In N.C., the only reason you want to emphasize the paranoid delusions about you being a philanderer is the alienation of affection laws. Not that your wife will get too far with that law, but it's a false allegation that will cost more money to defend, will slow everything down, stains your reputation, and puts you on the defensive when you want to be focusing on the kids.

Anyway, all that to say -- put the binders together in a way that helps you keep track of everything, and will be useful for your L as he prepares for your case (if it gets to that). If you have a ton of emails like I did, then ask your L what he wants to see so you don't knock yourself out.

Also -- I found it hugely helpful to log everything in Google calendar. I created a calendar I labeled LEGAL. Every day, I tracked items of note. Things about S12, meetings with the school, drs appointments, dates I received notable emails from N/BPDx. Then, as it got close to the deposition, I printed the calendar out as an agenda and had everything sorted in chronological order. It really helped my memory. During the deposition, I had dates and facts right there and that made me extremely credible. As opposed to N/BPDx, he looked like he had been drinking the night before, had no documents, and couldn't remember the year things happened, much less the month and day.

There's a way you can also forward emails to your calendar so they're linked, but I can't remember how you do it off the top of my head... .