Question about a behavior

[mace17]

I posted an introduction and a little of my story on the new members board, but reading on here made me think of a question I have.  When my H and I do have an argument, one of the things he always accuses me of is telling him how he thinks.  I really don't think I do that, but I might not be realizing that I do it.  From what I've read, this is a BPD trait so I'm wondering if maybe I'm the one with the problem. 

It usually starts with him acting all grumpy and I ask him what's wrong. He says nothing is wrong.  I give it a little time and then say it feels like you could be upset with me, are you? Then he gets mad and says fine if that's what you want to think. Then starts ranting that I tell him how he feels and he's sick of it. 

Another scenario is when I give him an out in a situation.  For example, I know he doesn't like to go to church with me and my mom.  So if I do ask him, I will say something like you are welcome to come with us but I know you really don't like to so you don't have to come if you don't want to.  There again I am telling him how he thinks apparently.  I don't know how to handle some of these situations because if I ask him to do something and he doesn't really want to, if he decides to do it he will be as unpleasant as possible until I feel bad about asking him to do it, but if I say I know you don't really enjoy this activity so you don't have to participate, then I'm telling him how he feels.

Another example is a Cub Scout weekend camp my son really wanted to go to.  I had other commitments that weekend and couldn't go with him.  I asked my H if he would go with him, and he just walked away and didn't answer.  So I asked around and found a friend's dad who would take DS along.  When I came home and mentioned this, H got upset and said I told you I would have gone with him.  I told him he could still go with him if he really wanted to, and he assured me that yes he wanted to go.  So I canceled the plans with the other dad to take DS.  The day they were supposed to go, H was grumpy and complaining about everything.  He got mad becasue I had bought the things my son needed for camp but I hadn't bought H anything, like a mess kit or a sleeping bag.  And he seemed to think I should have packed all his stuff too, but I only packed my son's things.  I tried to tell him to at least act like he was having fun for his son's sake, but everybody could tell he didn't want to go.  And of course he complained about everything while he was there and they ended up coming home early. He tried to make me feel bad for pushing him into going, but I really didn't push him.  Now if I had said you don't have to go if you don't want to, he would have accused me of telling him what to think.

These types of situations are very frustrating to me, does anybody have any advice on how to handle this? or what I am doing wrong?

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[momtara]

Mine did that:  "You're putting words in my mouth."  All the time.  It was hard to understand his logic so I tried to explain it, and then he'd say that.  I think it is a BPD trait.

[momtara]

I don't think saying "I know you really don't want to" is helpful.  Instead, put it as a question.  "Are you sure you want to go?  Is there a way I can help make it easier?"  Then he can't complain later.

[maxsterling]

This is actually a common situation when dealing with a person who has BPD. Trust me, I get it ALL the time, but it is now much less now that I understand better what is going on in her brain.  I know you have his best intentions in your heart, just like I do for my GF.  But let me illustrate a few things:

It usually starts with him acting all grumpy and I ask him what's wrong. He says nothing is wrong.  I give it a little time and then say it feels like you could be upset with me, are you? Then he gets mad and says fine if that's what you want to think. Then starts ranting that I tell him how he feels and he's sick of it. 

My GF would have the same reaction.  The reason he is upset is because you invalidated his emotions.  My GF does this to me all the time, and it is aggravating, and I am sure you have had people do this to you. You feel some way (sad, happy, frustrated, etc) and then someone tries to guess what you are feeling, and if you say "no, that is not how I feel" and they respond by claiming you are wrong, you feel like crap.  Why?  Because this other person is telling you that you must be feeling different than you actually are.  How can they know what your emotions are?  Your natural emotions were invalidated.  Now imagine you are a person with BPD who feels things ten times stronger than other people, that crappy annoyance becomes a full on rage.  People with BPD, like most people, don't like being told how they should feel.  If he tells you nothing is wrong, you simply have to leave it at that, even though you know something must be wrong.  If he has BPD, then something is *always* wrong.  It took me a long time to realize what was going on in these situations, and I didn't fully understand until I realized that she did the same to me.  If there is one thing people need ownership of, it is their own emotions. 

So if I do ask him, I will say something like you are welcome to come with us but I know you really don't like to so you don't have to come if you don't want to.  There again I am telling him how he thinks apparently. 

Same situation here.  Even though you know he is grumpy and hates going, telling him that is invalidating his emotions.  You are predicting his future for him, even if you (and most people who know him) know this is true. 

It's a tricky situation, and ultimately you are going to have to change the way you approach him.  Have you checked out the links on the right side of this page "Before you can make anything better, you must stop making it worse?"  Those lessons really helped me understand what was going on.  In the second scenario you mentioned, I'd simply suggest simply telling him you are going to church, who is going with you, and what time you will be home.  Leave the rest up to him. 

[mace17]

I think I understand, and thank you for the suggestions.  I actually have tried just saying where I'm going and with who, and I figured if he wanted to come along he would say so.  However this backfired on me a couple times too, he was upset that he wasn't specifically invited, and claimed I was trying to exclude him on purpose.  One particular incident I remember, I told him I was taking our son to a Halloween event.  Told him exactly when, where and what.  A couple days later, he was upset that I hadn't invited him to come along.  I told him of course he was welcome to come.  So he did, and at the event all he did was complain about everything, from the weather to how it was managed.  I simply ignored it and had fun with my son anyway, but I almost wished I hadn't invited him at that point.

[wilsonian]

I know that situation all to well max... . that and every line on my face is being read by her and if I make any kind of facial change my BPDw knows that something is wrong... notice always something wrong never has she supposedly read a smile or happy face from me... .

[tayana]

Mine BPDw does that all the time.  She also has severe PTSD and Depression and most days can barely get out of bed.  I have tried a lot of the ideas here about validating her feelings, and that just makes her even madder.  I have tried including her in activities asking if she would like to go, telling her I'm going, etc.  She gets angry if I say I'm going because I didn't previously discuss with her.  She gets angry if I ask and she doesn't reply and then go because I obviously didn't want her to.  It's so confusing. 

I can be staring into space, thinking about absolutely nothing, or something stupid like what I want for a snack and she assumes I am obviously upset about something.  She'll keep badgering me until I am upset.  If I try to tell her how I feel, I am being defensive.  She demands utter respect from me, but I don't get the same thing in return.  I have almost lost my job because of her demands.

I have tried just asking, "You seem upset, is everything OK?"  that's the wrong question.  I can't win, no matter what.

I love her, but I'm really frustrated and not sure how much longer I can keep doing this.  I feel like I have another child instead of a partner.

[maxsterling]

Mace - unfortunately, dealing with BPD means plenty of "no-win" situations. And you will have to learn to accept at times he will be upset, claim you caused it, when really it has nothing to do with you.  Again, been there, done that.  So, him claiming you didn't invite him?  Well, guess what, he is a big boy, and he shouldn't need your invitation.  I remember once I was backing out of the driveway to go to home depot as my GF was pulling in.  So, she backed back out into the street, and I left.  When I got to home depot, there were angry text messages from her asking where I went.  I said "to home depot and will be back in 15 minutes."  She then was mad that I didn't ask her or wait for her to come home so that I could ask her.  She hates that store anyway, so this is one of those situations where it would not have mattered what I did.  She was just in a bad mood, and that would come out someway/somehow.

[Should I stay or...]

Hi Mace17,

It sounds like you husband might have a social anxiety? Your stories are about him attending events and he seems do everything he can to avoid going out?

[mace17]

I really don't think it's social anxiety so much as laziness. Usually he comes home from work and sits and watches tv or plays games all night, and he really hates having to do anything. He is fine going to social events as long as they are his idea, but that doesn't happen often, it's usually a bowling event during the season.

[timebombtango]

My husband does this, and even goes so far as to say I know you think xyz... . and I know your gonna accuse me of XYZ... . when nothing of the sort even close to that entered my mind.

I find when I say.

I'm going to the store, if you'd like to come please let me know. If you decide not to I'm totally fine with that.

He may ramble on about what all I think and so forth. And I just repeat the same thing over and over until it connects

[momtara]

I think you have to invite him, and tell him you specifically need to know by X date if he is not going, rather than guessing his emotions or beating around the bush.