Child Custody: If you knew then, what you know now. . .

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

He is really doing a wonderful job.  Has learned to do little girl's hair, do father-daughter pedicures (loved his pink toenail polish  ), cook mac n'cheese, takes her to the park several days a week, etc.  We pick her up Friday from preschool (she is 3 1/2 now; he is 24)and then drop her off at her preschool Monday mornings.  He works all day Friday, Sat and Sunday to get 40 hours in at his job.  Last semester all of his classes were M-F.  Friday only had a morning class, then off to work.  They live about 20 minutes from us.  

He also found a really good therapist to work with.  He does get very tired, but never, ever regrets what he did.  Has become very adept at cleaning the normal spills and stains that seem common to all toddlers.  Has a set bath and bedtime routine for her, takes her to all her doctor visits (well checks, shots or when she is sick).  

Having an unexpected baby at 20, he said made him grow up in a hurry.  

Yes, I did have qualms about what we were doing, I did have some empathy.  His intention was to never cut off her parents, but they were not in court and never contacted him.  Even her sister seemed to support him, until she tried to help her sister kidnap the baby a day before court.  Son had gotten a TRO in the baby's name.  He took her to her very delayed 6 month check up (exgf had kept telling him she would do it and cancelled an appointment he had made).  She had lied to the pediatrician's office and told them she had a CPO and to contact her if he showed.  She call the local police repeated her lie.  Fortunately he had the court order on him so nothing happened and actually got a police escort out of the doctor's office.  We could not get the report in time for court, but it was used in the terminating her parental rights case.  And yes, he switched to a different pediatrician.  

We are helping him financially by paying his car insurance and he is on our cell phone plan.  I love buying her clothes, so we pay for the majority of those.  

Of course, she is still telling people that he "stole her daughter" "abused her", etc.  

I am sure that his exgf does love the baby, and if her life was full of struggles that is sad, but it doesn't give her a pass to bad behavior.  

[catnap]

He is really doing a wonderful job.  Has learned to do little girl's hair, do father-daughter pedicures (loved his pink toenail polish  ), cook mac n'cheese, takes her to the park several days a week, etc.  We pick her up Friday from preschool (she is 3 1/2 now; he is 24)and then drop her off at her preschool Monday mornings.  He works all day Friday, Sat and Sunday to get 40 hours in at his job.  Last semester all of his classes were M-F.  Friday only had a morning class, then off to work.  They live about 20 minutes from us.  

He also found a really good therapist to work with.  He does get very tired, but never, ever regrets what he did.  Has become very adept at cleaning the normal spills and stains that seem common to all toddlers.  Has a set bath and bedtime routine for her, takes her to all her doctor visits (well checks, shots or when she is sick).  

Having an unexpected baby at 20, he said made him grow up in a hurry.  

Yes, I did have qualms about what we were doing, I did have some empathy.  His intention was to never cut off her parents, but they were not in court and never contacted him.  Even her sister seemed to support him, until she tried to help her sister kidnap the baby a day before court.  Son had gotten a TRO in the baby's name.  He took her to her very delayed 6 month check up (exgf had kept telling him she would do it and cancelled an appointment he had made).  She had lied to the pediatrician's office and told them she had a CPO and to contact her if he showed.  She call the local police repeated her lie.  Fortunately he had the court order on him so nothing happened and actually got a police escort out of the doctor's office.  We could not get the report in time for court, but it was used in the terminating her parental rights case.  And yes, he switched to a different pediatrician.  

We are helping him financially by paying his car insurance and he is on our cell phone plan.  I love buying her clothes, so we pay for the majority of those.  

Of course, she is still telling people that he "stole her daughter" "abused her", etc.  

I am sure that his exgf does love the baby, and if her life was full of struggles that is sad, but it doesn't give her a pass to bad behavior.  

[ForeverDad]

My son wants to have primary custody.  In his consultation, the L said that would be unlikely and it would be best to file for joint custody.  Probably true, but I wonder if he has some basis for asking.

But by asking for legal custody, does he run the risk of seeming to have an unreasonable request?  Or does he use a strategy that gives him the best chance of a good settlement?

Here's one way that part of the motion can be phrased... . "Father of the child is asking for custody and majority time.  Father realizes this is not a typical request, but he also realizes this is not a typical case.  While father can share his child, thus far mother has refused to share similarly.  Father believes that over time it will become apparent that this request is not only reasonable but also necessary.  However, father accepts that the court may not discern enough evidence of this as yet and so if the court decides to start with less responsibility and time, such as equal time and a method to handle impasses when major parenting issues arise, father will of course abide by the court's temporary order."

That way you get your ethical "foot in the door".  However, the likely outcome is that mother will be assigned as temporary custodial parent and majority time parent.  That doesn't mean father caves in or doesn't even try, no, it just mean he does the best he reasonably can along each step of his path to fatherhood.  No one asks for more than his reasonable best.

Of course, we're peer support, 'been there, done that', but not lawyers here.

[Veronica2001]

Once again, a profound thank you.  My son's ex has been having a good spell the last few days and her father actually dropped the baby off this weekend (first time ever).   Combine that with the guilt I was experiencing, and it made for some serious second thoughts.  The words you all took the time to wrote are so appreciated. 

When I first started realizing there was a serious problem with his exGF, I confided in my cousin, who is a social worker.  I really wanted to help the exGF.  She told me I needed to prepare for the fact that my son may need to file for primary custody someday.  I found it out of the realm of possibilities at that point.  And here we are.  She said sometimes you just can't save both parent and child.  Your words reminded me of that. 

A titanium backbone--I will hold on to that!  And yes, this has all brought some issues to light from my own family of origin and I am better off for the knowledge I've attained through this. 

catnap, to know this can work and to know of someone who is actually living it, is so encouraging.  You must be a proud momma!  It sounds like he's doing a wonderful job w/his D.  Sounds like he had some excellent role models.  Thank you for sharing your experience.  And I like the clothes shopping too!  I have all boys, so it's a whole new world.    

ForeverDad,  oohhh, I like that!  Thanks so much.  We'll be meeting the L this week.  I'll have a long list with me.   

[ForeverDad]

I am sure that his exgf does love the baby, and if her life was full of struggles that is sad, but it doesn't give her a pass to bad behavior.

My ex had a bad childhood.  We were married for a dozen years before we had a child, yet apparently she couldn't shake her memories of the past.  As our son was approaching 3 years of age, the same age she was when her abusive SF joined her family, she started devolving, fearing abductors lurking in the woods, unsafe stores, unsafe daycares, unsafe schools, diving away our friends, driving away my family, finally with virtually no one left she started focusing on me.  It was at that point I realized there was no hope left to keep the marriage together, not if I wanted to avoid risk of false allegations putting me in an orange jumpsuit for the next 10 or more years.  My ex has always professed love for our son.  But it's always been a bit warped and unbalanced, often in intangible ways, just enough that you sense something's wrong somewhere.  But, still, it doesn't give any parent a pass to bad behavior.

When I first started realizing there was a serious problem with his exGF, I confided in my cousin, who is a social worker.  I really wanted to help the exGF.  She told me I needed to prepare for the fact that my son may need to file for primary custody someday.  I found it out of the realm of possibilities at that point.  And here we are.  She said sometimes you just can't save both parent and child.  Your words reminded me of that.

Sadly, it is what it is, not what you or your son wished it would be.  Accept that and step up to the plate.

Disclaimer:  His exGF is still young, she may choose to change.  No one knows what the future may hold for her.  So if she chooses to behave better as a lifestyle and not for a public face, almost always with the help of an experienced but emotionally neutral professional, then the future may not be as bleak and difficult as it appears now.  Prepare for the worst but hope for the best.

[Veronica2001]

Yes, ForeverDad, that's exactly the mindset we've adopted.  She doesn't seem as drastically disordered as other people so there's a glimmer of hope that with maturity, things will get better.  At the same time, we can't count on that. 

It's interesting that your son's mother didn't begin struggling until he was the age that she was when she was first abused.  That may explain why my son's ex doesn't seem concerned about daycare and seems to be a very typical new mom in many ways.  Maybe that will change when our GD gets closer to the age that she remembers being abused.  Something to be aware of.   

The petition for custody will be signed on Friday.  Will give updates.  Thanks to everyone again!

[kfifd196]

Tell your son to TAPE EVERYTHING!  I taped my uBPD wife and she went beserk.  Luckily I had it taped. She found out and MY lawyer freaked... . I don't know why, since it IS ALLOWED in our state.  So, at his advice, I stopped recording.  Sure enough, 3 weeks later, I went to get my daughter and the wife accused me of making derogatory comments, as our 1 y/o daughter screamed and balled her eyes out, because she didn't want to go to her mommy... . strange, and made me wonder WHY she doesn't want to go to mommy... .

I had noticed she wasn't receptive to women lately and told her that, at which point, she took it personally and snapped.  I wish I had my recorder!  I told my lawyer, but he already received a letter from her lawyer threatening a TRO again.  I had enough of the false allegations and told my lawyer to write back that I would file harassment charges if she didn't stop with the false allegations.  He advised me to carry the recorder again.  The next time I went to get my daughter, she was thrilled to see me.  I had her my 2 days, dropped her off and she screamed again!  She DID NOT want to go to her Mommy!  I am scared to think why, but I can't prove anything and am working my butt off to save money and hire a P.I... to see if she is even watching our daughter or if she leaves her with her mother all day... . or God forbid, she is abusing her  

I go to mediation for the first time Thursday Morning... . I hope it goes well... . My wife was treating me kindly the last 2 days, so I don't know if she's painting me white, being nice because mediation is here or if she's realizing she's losing the best thing to happen to her... . Wish me luck!  Good Luck to you too!

[ForeverDad]

The next time I went to get my daughter, she was thrilled to see me.  I had her my 2 days, dropped her off and she screamed again!  She DID NOT want to go to her Mommy!  I am scared to think why, but I can't prove anything... .

That was my experience from the time we separated (son was a little less than 4) until maybe when the divorce was final (age 6)?  He never said why, but he was always happy to come running to me then upon return he would always fuss, cry, whimper, fight not to go back.  I recall times when she'd glare at me and accuse, "What did you do to him?"  Hey, he just didn't want to go back.  I'm guessing he eventually accepted the new normal and stopped fighting exchanges.  I've always fell a loss about that change, that he lost a little bit of his spark.

I don't know the full story in my case, I wasn't there at ex's residence, but apparently he wasn't being directly abused.  Years later the court did criticize his mother for 'disparaging' father in son's presence, years late.  But I've never heard of any direct abuse.  Similarly, for all you know there may not be 'actionable' abuse in your case, it may be that your child just desperately wants to stay with you.

[catnap]

Do you know yet when she will be served? 

[gherkins]

Ask to have all contact between your son and the mother pertaining to the babylogged through Our Family Wizard or a similar site.  The correspondence can be entered as evidence down the road if you need it.  Plus, she can't deny receiving it since it provides a read receipt even if accessed as a text.

[Veronica2001]

I hope your mediation was productive, kfifd196.

Here's an update on our situation:

We had our meeting w/the L yesterday.  It had been a few weeks since our initial consultation and much has happened since then.  My son made some gains, but there was also a lot of conflict that his L didn't know about until yesterday.  She has so much she'd like to add to the petition that it needs to be rewritten.

Gains:  His ex has a new schedule for work and needs childcare on the weekends.  She offered for him to have their D Saturday through Monday morning every other week.  That's the good news, though the L said it's too little, too late--now that she needs help, she's more willing to share time. 

Her father is going to help w/transportation once a week.  Suddenly, they're both being very nice and cooperative.  I received a long text from her dad stating that he FINALLY has gotten through to his D in explaining the reality of working and giving my son his time w/his D.  A very different tune from a couple of weeks ago. 

One thing I learned from yesterday's meeting is that no information is inconsequential in sharing w/a L.  There were things she honed in on that I would have thought to have little importance. 

Once my son explained various events and his concerns, she was able to see even further that there is a significant problem w/his ex in obstructing his involvement in decisions and time w/his D.  We told her about her emotional instability and were able to provide concrete examples.  While she did say that if there were any mental issues, they would surface eventually, she also said that she sees this kind of behavior frequently with teen mothers.  They feel it is their baby and they don't need to share.  A judge would most likely regard her behavior as typical of a teenager. 

So, I'm not sure what to think.  Have I been wrong in suspecting a disorder?  I don't know.  His ex has been having a good week and made my son a Father's Day gift.  It's very confusing.

My son pushed for sole legal custody (the conversation began w/the L assuming it would be joint).  Being able to make decisions regarding his D is very important to him as she is unwilling to consider his perspective.  Of course, she told him it would be unlikely but said it would not hurt him to ask for it.

As far as physical custody, it is currently decided that he will ask for shared physical custody w/a 50/50 split.  And this had me up last night.  The various options for custody and the long meeting w/the L left us mentally exhausted. We spent a lot of time discussing legal custody.   It took me a while to process all of it after we left, and as recommended here, I'm thinking he should change "shared" to "primary" physical custody.  My son (and we agree) is not concerned about her ability as a mother, so it's difficult to justify at this point.  Thoughts?

The L will be contacting his phone provider to request that they save all correspondence.  If my son hadn't been saving his texts, much of it could have been lost.  She said it's also better to have the information come from the server.  So that's good.

As it stands, the L is going to rewrite the petition and send it to my son for review.  Once that is completed, it will be submitted to family court and his ex will be mailed the petition.  There is no option for a process server in our state unless she fails to show up for court. 

In Bill Eddy's book, "Splitting", he recommends giving advance notice when there is going to be "key times of risk of extreme behavior".  He gives an example of letting the other parent/partner know when he/she will be receiving papers from a L or for court procedures.  Of course, this is only if there are no safety issues.  I think this could be a good idea instead of blindsiding her w/the mailed paperwork. 

Feedback is appreciated!

[ForeverDad]

With a very young child it would be extremely difficult to get a court to assign  minority time to a mother.  So it's okay to ask for 50/50 "at this time" and leaving door open.  I think asking for primary custody is enough  Usually primary and equal/majority time go hand in hand.

In my county for children under 3 years the non-primary parent got alternate weekends and 2-3 visits in between on the published guideline/sample schedule.  So if your son ends up getting minority time in a temp order then the court will be sure that he gets frequent visits in between alternate weekends.

Why the father was able to say better things recently, I don't know, maybe it's as he described but perhaps too it is that they sensed your son was standing up for himself as father and not being intimidated, they pushed and found out they hit a wall?

Mothers' emotions are all over the place after childbirth.  And if she's nursing that may prolong such behaviors.  The situation here is difficult, of course a mother should have plenty of time with their baby, but so should the father too.  It's hard to say where her behaviors will end up.  (Minors usually aren't diagnosed with PDs because sometimes their teen behaviors are a bit extreme.  So from here in remote anonymous land it's even harder to say.)

[livednlearned]

Once my son explained various events and his concerns, she was able to see even further that there is a significant problem w/his ex in obstructing his involvement in decisions and time w/his D.  We told her about her emotional instability and were able to provide concrete examples.  While she did say that if there were any mental issues, they would surface eventually, she also said that she sees this kind of behavior frequently with teen mothers.  They feel it is their baby and they don't need to share.  A judge would most likely regard her behavior as typical of a teenager.  

So, I'm not sure what to think.  Have I been wrong in suspecting a disorder?

I wouldn't worry too much about whether she fits the clinical definition of BPD -- if she has traits instead of 5-9 of the DSM criteria, you're probably still looking at a high-conflict custody battle. She might have traits, or maybe her symptoms aren't severe -- which is good. But a lot of the strategies, both psychological and legal, will apply whether she displays mild or severe behaviors. It's hard for clinicians to diagnose BPD in adults, much less teens, and even harder for lay people. But BPD is also labeled Emotional Regulation Disorder, so anyone who struggles to regulate emotions is going to have issues. Let's hope your GD's mother isn't BPD, and that she'll outgrow some of the behaviors, but continue to treat her as though her behavior is on the spectrum.

As far as physical custody, it is currently decided that he will ask for shared physical custody w/a 50/50 split.  And this had me up last night.  The various options for custody and the long meeting w/the L left us mentally exhausted. We spent a lot of time discussing legal custody.   It took me a while to process all of it after we left, and as recommended here, I'm thinking he should change "shared" to "primary" physical custody.  My son (and we agree) is not concerned about her ability as a mother, so it's difficult to justify at this point.  Thoughts?

I understand what you're saying. I guess the question is what's the worst that will happen if your son asks for primary physical and sole legal? If you worry that your son can't justify asking for primary physical, you could ask the court to consider assigning a parenting coordinator. In effect, you ask for the thing you want but know you can't get (primary physical custody) while giving the judge a reasonable middle ground (parenting coordinator). So it's documented that your son is very committed to his role as a father, and meanwhile you get a third-party professional involved who could potentially testify at a later date if it comes to that.

The key is to be strategic in selecting a PC. Ideally, it will be someone who has a regular practice as a child psychologist, and who is ethical. There is a whole forensic psychologist business that's known to be lucrative, and you don't want a PC who got into the business of counseling in order to make bank. You want someone who genuinely cares about the welfare of the kids. In my state, the PC is actually sworn in before a judge -- she legally has an extension of judicial duties. Some states have PCs that may or may not be sworn in.

It isn't the end of the world if your son doesn't ask for primary physical custody -- any modification to a custody order is difficult, but it can happen. My experience is that it helps to be consistent, but I also have a very disordered ex who gave the court a lot to work with. A judge may be more lenient with teen parents.

In Bill Eddy's book, "Splitting", he recommends giving advance notice when there is going to be "key times of risk of extreme behavior".  He gives an example of letting the other parent/partner know when he/she will be receiving papers from a L or for court procedures.  Of course, this is only if there are no safety issues.  I think this could be a good idea instead of blindsiding her w/the mailed paperwork.

 

If you think your GD's mom is not severely disordered, it might work to follow this advice. How do you envision carrying this out?

[catnap]

As FD said asking for primary leaves the door wide open. 

As to why all the sudden they are offering more time and being nice is hard to say, except I would be very cautious in accepting it at face value. 

I do think that notifying her in advance is warranted.  To me, very careful consideration needs to be used as to how the notification is done and dutifully documented/and or recorded.  Her reaction and well as her fathers might tell you and your L quite a bit. 

[ForeverDad]

Giving her a heads up should not be so far in advance that she, her parents or their lawyer have time to sabotage the plans to file.  She may feel she has to make your son look worse than her.  A common overreaction is to file allegations of some sort, if not DV or threat of DV then child abuse, neglect or endangerment.  If she files something after the papers are served then your son to take the stance that subsequent complaints are retaliatory 'sour grapes' of a troubled relationship and not based on facts.

[Veronica2001]

Thanks for the replies. 

My son decided he would like to change the petition to primary physical custody, knowing it probably won't happen, but at least he's making his wishes known to both his ex and the court.  He has waited a long time to feel that he finally has a voice.  As my husband said, it shouldn't be about what he thinks he can get, but what he wants.  S really feels it's in the best interest to have primary physical and legal custody of his D b/c he's more willing to compromise and consider her perspective and desires (actually, 98% of the time, he's the only willing to compromise--unless there is something for his ex to gain).  So thank you all for the support.  I really feel at peace about his decision. 

His L said that the courts are leaning more and more toward a 50/50 split custody situation.  With teenagers, it it may be a little different, but given his involvement, she said my son's chances are very good.  It also helps that he has built-in daycare (raising my hand). 

He received a court date in the mail on Saturday for child support.  I guess we'll become familiar w/family court quickly! 

I think his ex (based on my limited knowledge) definitely meets the DSM Criteria for BPD, but I'd like to believe that she will change w/some maturity.  Her father has had problems w/her for years and my son said her behavior was erratic even before she became pregnant.  Initially, I thought her outbursts were due to hormones, and hormones may exacerbate the symptoms, but her moods seem to change based on circumstance (triggers) rather than a cycle.  I read a study on this just last week--the study found that BPD symptoms are not alleviated during pregnancy as you might find w/PMS.  But as you said, LnL, the strategies will still apply so I'll try not to waste my energy on figuring it all out.  Until or unless she's diagnosed, we just won't know.

Her father offered more transportation help today.  So strange, but yes, we're not letting our guard down.  He knows we're aware of some of the events that have happened over the last few weeks and understands I know more about my son's rights than he does or is willing to admit to.  He is also on the hook for childcare over the weekend if my son doesn't take the baby.  That might have something to do with it.    Or maybe he's just being nice.  That would be great. 

As far as giving his ex some type of advance notice regarding the custody papers, Eddy provides a great example that we can tweak.  He writes, "Say, 'Next week, my lawyer will be sending you some papers for a court hearing about our parenting plan and child support.  Please take your time to think about these matters, and let me know if you think we could reach an agreement before the hearing.  Or, we can just let the judge decide.'  Giving a heads-up and showing your flexibility will reduce the sense of a threat so that extreme behavior is less likely to be triggered."

My son doesn't really care about making things easier on her right now but I'll revisit it with him.  It may make things easier on him too.  I think it would be best to let her know a few days after his paperwork has been submitted to family court.  Not too soon, not too late, as FD suggested.  We'll make sure it goes through email so we have documentation.  His L was happy to hear that so much of what we relayed to her has traceable evidence.  And she also said, this case has a good chance of going to a hearing.  I hope she's wrong, but at least my son will be prepared.  To my knowledge, his ex does not have an attorney.

Happy Belated Father's Day to all of the warriors~and to the mothers doing double duty!

[ForeverDad]

He received a court date in the mail on Saturday for child support.  I guess we'll become familiar w/family court quickly!

Ah, so they've already accessed the legal system.  So they won't be so shocked to see him also file papers in court.  Yes, she may complain how unfair it is, but actually they were the first to involve the courts.

Frankly too, it's good to have a legal agreement, settlement or order to reduce future conflict extremes.

[livednlearned]

My son decided he would like to change the petition to primary physical custody, knowing it probably won't happen, but at least he's making his wishes known to both his ex and the court.  He has waited a long time to feel that he finally has a voice.  As my husband said, it shouldn't be about what he thinks he can get, but what he wants.  S really feels it's in the best interest to have primary physical and legal custody of his D b/c he's more willing to compromise and consider her perspective and desires (actually, 98% of the time, he's the only willing to compromise--unless there is something for his ex to gain).  So thank you all for the support.  I really feel at peace about his decision.

It must make you proud that he is handling things like this. Being a teen parent with someone who has BPD traits -- whether full blown or not -- that's not an easy way to get started in life. My guess is that he is going to figure out a lot of important things that took many of us decades to learn.

His L said that the courts are leaning more and more toward a 50/50 split custody situation.  With teenagers, it it may be a little different, but given his involvement, she said my son's chances are very good.  It also helps that he has built-in daycare (raising my hand). 

He's lucky to have you! And so is your GD.

I think his ex (based on my limited knowledge) definitely meets the DSM Criteria for BPD, but I'd like to believe that she will change w/some maturity.  Her father has had problems w/her for years and my son said her behavior was erratic even before she became pregnant.  Initially, I thought her outbursts were due to hormones, and hormones may exacerbate the symptoms, but her moods seem to change based on circumstance (triggers) rather than a cycle.  I read a study on this just last week--the study found that BPD symptoms are not alleviated during pregnancy as you might find w/PMS.  But as you said, LnL, the strategies will still apply so I'll try not to waste my energy on figuring it all out.  Until or unless she's diagnosed, we just won't know.

I do think it's helpful to read what you can about BPD for your sake, though. Not necessarily to decide if your GD's mom is or isn't BPD. The more I read about BPD, the more it helped me detach, which was important for my well-being. It helped to make sense of something that is really, really hard to make sense of. It might be different for you because you aren't enmeshed with the BPD parent (although it sounds like there are BPD behaviors in your own family), but when you're trying to figure out what drives this person to do xy or z odd behaviors, understanding the disorder and how emotions works can really help you get centered. It's still not easy! But every little bit helps.

Her father offered more transportation help today.  So strange, but yes, we're not letting our guard down.  He knows we're aware of some of the events that have happened over the last few weeks and understands I know more about my son's rights than he does or is willing to admit to.  He is also on the hook for childcare over the weekend if my son doesn't take the baby.  That might have something to do with it.    Or maybe he's just being nice.  That would be great. 

It's hard for anyone to remain courteous and cooperative when things start getting legal, so I hope the tone stays this way for everyone's benefit, especially your GD. It's interesting that he has gone through this and ended up getting custody -- I imagine there are some complex internal dynamics for him in terms of watching your son assert his rights.

As far as giving his ex some type of advance notice regarding the custody papers, Eddy provides a great example that we can tweak.  He writes, "Say, 'Next week, my lawyer will be sending you some papers for a court hearing about our parenting plan and child support.  Please take your time to think about these matters, and let me know if you think we could reach an agreement before the hearing.  Or, we can just let the judge decide.'  Giving a heads-up and showing your flexibility will reduce the sense of a threat so that extreme behavior is less likely to be triggered."

Great advice.

[Veronica2001]

I suppose they won't be as shocked at his petition as I thought they might be now that his ex has filed for CS.  He already provides for all of his D's needs when she's with us and we cover transportation costs and often give his ex things for her house.   But as you said FD, it's just as well that they go through the courts~it will be cut and dry with less opportunity for conflict (hopefully).

We've had a rough few years w/our son but this has changed him in many ways for the better.  And I am very relieved that even though it was too late to prevent a pregnancy, he did recognize that his relationship was unhealthy early on.  I didn't have that awareness for many, many years.  Now that he's begun legal action, I think he's finally feeling hopeful for the future and has a sense of control that he's been lacking. 

Yes, LnL, detachment is still a struggle for me.  I seem to be a maternal figure for his ex and that complicates detachment for me.  I want to love her into wellness!  Sound familiar?     It goes back to my own codependent tendencies, so I've also learned quite a bit about myself and I will certainly keep reading.

One of the most difficult aspects of pursuing legal action has been knowing that there will be strain between the families.  I'm sure you can all relate to that.  The custody petition does not paint her in a favorable light, that's for sure. It's hard to avoid.

[Veronica2001]

Why can't I figure out how to properly quote?    I'll keep trying.   

[DontPanic]

His ex seems to be a great mom to the baby, but emotionally, she is extremely unstable. 

In my opinion the above is a contradiction in terms, how can an emotionally unstable parent be a great mom? I assume she means that the baby is fed and clothed and she doesn't beat the child (as far as you can tell). IMHO thats a pretty low bar for a parent.

I do agree with what others that have shared that the courts often favor the mom, but it could be that statistically woman file for divorce 80% of the time and perhaps the courts ear is tuned to all those fake tears.

I've been on both sides of the fence and while a defendant, I was taken to the cleaners... as the plaintiff i won... so my thought based on my experience is to file quickly because in my experience and what I've read, the unstable parent involved is going to bare her teeth and your son is going to lose unless he takes active steps to win and then the battle really begins and when its done... the child ends up paying the price... . when that unstable parent that seems to be a good mom... turns out to be just plain old batcrap crazy...

IMHO...

[catnap]

Yes, LnL, detachment is still a struggle for me.  I seem to be a maternal figure for his ex and that complicates detachment for me.  I want to love her into wellness!  Sound familiar?   wink  It goes back to my own codependent tendencies, so I've also learned quite a bit about myself and I will certainly keep reading.

I felt that also with my son's ex, only to eventually come to the realization I was very disposable.  I was handy to keep my son roped into the r/s, buy things for her and the baby, and when I started setting boundaries, I was painted black. 

He received a court date in the mail on Saturday for child support.  I guess we'll become familiar w/family court quickly! 

Will be interesting to see what your L says about this.

[ForeverDad]

Purely through happenstance, my ex's motion for child support (3/23) crossed in the mail with my divorce motion (3/24).  My motion trumped hers so my lawyer said hers would be merged into mine.  You may find it similar when your son files his motions, his may trump hers and her case may be merged into his case.  I recall I still had to appear in juvenile court on her scheduled date and prove I had filed for divorce in family court on the other side of the building, but then the judge closed her case with references pointing to my case.

[catnap]

Purely through happenstance, my ex's motion for child support (3/23) crossed in the mail with my divorce motion (3/24).  My motion trumped hers so my lawyer said hers would be merged into mine.  You may find it similar when your son files his motions, his may trump hers and her case may be merged into his case.  I recall I still had to appear in juvenile court on her scheduled date and prove I had filed for divorce in family court on the other side of the building, but then the judge closed her case with references pointing to my case.

Ah, so there is the possibility the cases could be merged.   

[Veronica2001]

My son's attorney is aware of the CS appearance, which will be in July.  She warned him that his ex would most likely file for CS upon receiving his petition, but she beat him to the punch.  I wondered how they'd handle both.

I don't know that I'll have to worry about disengaging much longer.  I think his ex will be doing that first.  I had a chance to review the petition and it's brutal. 

Now where did I put that titanium backbone?  I can't seem to find it anywhere!

While most of it is accurate, some of it is exaggerated.  We'll want to make some changes.  But it will surely end civility between the two families, I'm afraid, and will send his ex into a tailspin. 

Just yesterday, she asked if we could take the baby 3 nights this week b/c of her work schedule.  Oy.

[catnap]

I had a chance to review the petition and it's brutal.

In stark legal language things can seem that way, but as long as it is truthful, no use sugar-coating it. 

[Veronica2001]

You're right, catnap.  I have no experience w/legal documents outside of a will, so I was a bit shocked at first.  I didn't realize his L would get so detailed in the petition.  It just needs to be dealt with or my son will be in this situation indefinitely.  My desire to avoid conflict and causing someone else pain/anger are very poor reasons to not do what is best for our GD.  This is the only way it can be done. 

And I can completely see the possibility that I'm disposable as well.  I'm not sure that's always the case, but it probably is often enough.  Thanks for keeping me in reality.   

DontPanic, the contradiction is pretty blatant isn't it?  It's easy to love a little ball of cuteness, but how likely is it that she'll relate to her D any differently than she does everyone else as her D gets older?  That is the chance we just can't take.

Petition will be signed and submitted tomorrow.  Say a prayer for us?

[livednlearned]

Petition will be signed and submitted tomorrow.  Say a prayer for us?

I found that N/BPDx dysregulated when he received any papers, or nearing court dates, or on anniversaries or holidays. He also seems to dysregulate worse on Friday nights. I made sure I didn't read any emails from him right before bed, and in the beginning before I figured out how things worked, I wish I had waited until my lawyer was in the office before reading N/BPDx's emails. It's awful to get jacked up on stress when you can't reach your lawyer and decipher what is or isn't an issue.

There's a good chance that the petition will trigger both GD's mom and the father.

Prepare for the worst and hope for the best. 

[Veronica2001]

GREAT tips, livednlearned.  I can't imagine how difficult it must have been going through a custody battle on top of a divorce w/someone having BPD/NPD traits.  Your strength amazes me. 

There is no doubt in my mind that this will result in some serious fallout.  They have been in control for the most part since the birth of the baby and as long as that isn't threatened, everything is calm. 

I have found that any amount of requested change is very difficult for my son's ex to handle~even the smallest of changes.  I remember feeling that way myself for many years.  It was a subtle form of abandonment or feeling that I couldn't count on the person who was making the changes anymore.  When you're in control, you can prevent this from happening. 

On top of that, the criticism she will experience is going to be intense and she won't see the problems with her behaviors.  She'll feel she is the victim.  The baby represents someone who loves her unconditionally.  By petitioning for custody, this will be the ultimate threat in her eyes. This is going to be very, very difficult for her. 

I think it's probably best that we take Eddy's advice and prepare both her father and her for the petition (in vague terms).  They both seem to initially fly off the handle and then given some time, become more reasonable.  It won't prevent the extreme emotions, as I think anyone receiving papers of this nature would experience that, but it will maybe soften the blow if they are expecting it.

[livednlearned]

I think it's probably best that we take Eddy's advice and prepare both her father and her for the petition (in vague terms).  They both seem to initially fly off the handle and then given some time, become more reasonable.  It won't prevent the extreme emotions, as I think anyone receiving papers of this nature would experience that, but it will maybe soften the blow if they are expecting it.

That's so true! My heart still pounds when I open my mailbox and see those big fat lawyer envelopes. I'm not sure if a petition is the same as what in my court is called the claim, but you will probably receive some kind of counter response. Prepare your son for that, and prepare yourself too. The counter claim I received knocked me sideways, it was filled with flat-out lies and character assassination. My lawyer told me that the judge doesn't read them, and most claims/counter claims are highly charged and reflect more the raw feelings after a couple splits, and everyone in the court system knows that. It's like people need to get it out of their system so they can get down to the business of settling things.

Still, it's hard to read this stuff. My lawyer always emailed me things in advance too, and I got into the habit of sending legal documents to two trusted friends who helped center me and bring me back off the ledge.

Eventually, it isn't so triggering. Fortunately, you have a little bundle of sweetness to redirect your attention!

[catnap]

How are things going?