Marriage counseling and more update

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

It has been awhile since I last posted, so I decided to finally find some time to write a little bit of what has been happening in my crazy life.  BTW, crazy is not just because of her.

An update on my marriage.  We have gone to several MC sessions, and I have been to many individual therapy session (on the sly).  I am not sure how I feel about trying to make it work or not.  Obligation, the children and past memories pull me towards making it work, yet the thought of having to be prepared for upsetting her or receiving her upset feelings for something related to me but not something I did scares me.

Here are a few things that have happened recently.  Condensed from my journal.  Oh, I keep a journal!  Only way to know my memories are valid.  BTW, she is uBPD/NPD.  I am not sure the mixture, but that NPD makes her a force to deal with.

• She still tries to sow seeds of doubt about me handling the children if she left.  I ignore this.  I know I can handle them.  Quite hard, yet I can do it.



• She will not work because it would mean that she cannot pursue a certification she wants to get.  However, she cannot do that because she is having trouble focusing on it.  I suggested working for a year to get her mind back on track for the certification while saving the money to handle that time without work.  Even hire someone to clean the house to make it easier.  I even said I can work it out with my company to help with the schedules of the children.  No go.  At least, she is thrifty, so crazy spending is not a big concern although there.



• When I appear happier, she seems to doubt the marriage will work for awhile then says she will never leave or she will give it more time.



• More recently, she has been "nicer".  She at first doubted the MC (EFT) was working then decided, after I brought it up to the counselor, that either it was starting to work or a recent death in the family triggered improvement.



• She said that I do not acknowledge fault when I make a mistake.  I disagreed and told her that I may make light of it but do not blame others for it.  This was in regard to me joking about a mistake I made on a chore that did not hamper her in any way and was not asked by her to do it.



• She got snooty because she repaired something in the house.  I complimented it.  Of course, she said I should have been the one to do it.  This ignores the extra work I had been doing on the yard and the outside of the house.  I recognize that she is doing a lot of home repairs, but I can only fix/do so many things at once.



• Speaking of the death in the family, she used that opportunity to talk with at least two family members and a old friend of mine to talk about us.  I could actually see it coming when the friend started with how I should be like my family member.  I had seen the two of them talking earlier yet did not suspect anything until the words started coming out.  I knew by word number three what was going on.



• When she turned a long conversation to the topic of my mom, she went cold very fast.  That was scary.  She still claims to have knowledge about my mom but is honor-bound to not tell me.  She said, "I am so sorry that I cannot tell you" in a way that looked sincere yet felt eerie since she had never looked that way before.



• Her favorite expression now is:  I am not mad at you; I am frustrated.  She even said it regarding the children the other day.  It feels like anger to me in how she expresses it.



• She threatened to leave due to the children driving her nuts.  It made her feel unappreciated.  She said those words as she headed upstairs at the beginning of dinner.  I knew the children were not listening well since I had just given our S3 a bath which had been a lot of "fun". 
  
  She came downstairs near the end of dinner to eat her food.  After that, she was getting them vitamins as the children asked for treats.  Her only response was "I don't care what they do" even when I asked if our D9 had treats earlier.  I told her "I want to know" with emphasis on "I".  Same response.  I was proud of myself for at least standing firm even if it did not change the result.
  
  When changing S3, I found D9 under a bed in a self-imposed timeout.  She was not crying nor looking really sad, but I could tell it worried her.  Today, I was able to find out what comment did it.  It was, "I am going to leave.  I can't handle children that disrespect me."
  
  As usual, she was happier/nicer later (maybe after her glass of alcohol had been absorbed) and said she would never leave them nor I.  Before bed, she apologized for her outburst to me.  I could only say "OK".  Normally, I would forgive her (my nature), but I bit my tongue this time.  For one, I am tired of forgiving, so she can turn around and do something like it again.  Two, her attitude was more directed towards the children.  They need the apology, which they got some of one.
  
  



• This morning, she was having trouble with a website on her phone.  She described it as if it was asking for her location but was not working without it.  I assumed she meant that it was asking for permission to retrieve her location, so I said it should work with a confused look on my face.  I proceeded to tell her that it should let her enter in the zip code after denying permission for the location.  She got her phone and sat down to show me.  The site would not accept the zip code.
  
  She then told me that she felt like she had called Microsoft, and they were telling her to check if the computer was plugged in.  She did this sweetly, but sweetly feels condescending for some reason.
  
  This feels like she is not picking up on the cues (confused look on my face) and my very words "that should work" which tell that I believe her but am confused why it is not working.

I do not know who I am really dealing with.  I have trouble not expecting some turmoil from random things.  From all of this (and more!), I do not care if it works or not, but I do not want fear to rule the outcome.

Does any of this look familiar to people here?  I thought she had just BPD at one time while my mom was inclined to NPD, but it is really looking like a nice little mix of the two.  Does it seem like there is some fight over power involved here?  I sometimes feel like I am imagining things.  Also, is she getting better or merely changing tactics?

At least, I live in interesting times! 

[Zon]

It has been awhile since I last posted, so I decided to finally find some time to write a little bit of what has been happening in my crazy life.  BTW, crazy is not just because of her.

An update on my marriage.  We have gone to several MC sessions, and I have been to many individual therapy session (on the sly).  I am not sure how I feel about trying to make it work or not.  Obligation, the children and past memories pull me towards making it work, yet the thought of having to be prepared for upsetting her or receiving her upset feelings for something related to me but not something I did scares me.

Here are a few things that have happened recently.  Condensed from my journal.  Oh, I keep a journal!  Only way to know my memories are valid.  BTW, she is uBPD/NPD.  I am not sure the mixture, but that NPD makes her a force to deal with.

• She still tries to sow seeds of doubt about me handling the children if she left.  I ignore this.  I know I can handle them.  Quite hard, yet I can do it.



• She will not work because it would mean that she cannot pursue a certification she wants to get.  However, she cannot do that because she is having trouble focusing on it.  I suggested working for a year to get her mind back on track for the certification while saving the money to handle that time without work.  Even hire someone to clean the house to make it easier.  I even said I can work it out with my company to help with the schedules of the children.  No go.  At least, she is thrifty, so crazy spending is not a big concern although there.



• When I appear happier, she seems to doubt the marriage will work for awhile then says she will never leave or she will give it more time.



• More recently, she has been "nicer".  She at first doubted the MC (EFT) was working then decided, after I brought it up to the counselor, that either it was starting to work or a recent death in the family triggered improvement.



• She said that I do not acknowledge fault when I make a mistake.  I disagreed and told her that I may make light of it but do not blame others for it.  This was in regard to me joking about a mistake I made on a chore that did not hamper her in any way and was not asked by her to do it.



• She got snooty because she repaired something in the house.  I complimented it.  Of course, she said I should have been the one to do it.  This ignores the extra work I had been doing on the yard and the outside of the house.  I recognize that she is doing a lot of home repairs, but I can only fix/do so many things at once.



• Speaking of the death in the family, she used that opportunity to talk with at least two family members and a old friend of mine to talk about us.  I could actually see it coming when the friend started with how I should be like my family member.  I had seen the two of them talking earlier yet did not suspect anything until the words started coming out.  I knew by word number three what was going on.



• When she turned a long conversation to the topic of my mom, she went cold very fast.  That was scary.  She still claims to have knowledge about my mom but is honor-bound to not tell me.  She said, "I am so sorry that I cannot tell you" in a way that looked sincere yet felt eerie since she had never looked that way before.



• Her favorite expression now is:  I am not mad at you; I am frustrated.  She even said it regarding the children the other day.  It feels like anger to me in how she expresses it.



• She threatened to leave due to the children driving her nuts.  It made her feel unappreciated.  She said those words as she headed upstairs at the beginning of dinner.  I knew the children were not listening well since I had just given our S3 a bath which had been a lot of "fun". 
  
  She came downstairs near the end of dinner to eat her food.  After that, she was getting them vitamins as the children asked for treats.  Her only response was "I don't care what they do" even when I asked if our D9 had treats earlier.  I told her "I want to know" with emphasis on "I".  Same response.  I was proud of myself for at least standing firm even if it did not change the result.
  
  When changing S3, I found D9 under a bed in a self-imposed timeout.  She was not crying nor looking really sad, but I could tell it worried her.  Today, I was able to find out what comment did it.  It was, "I am going to leave.  I can't handle children that disrespect me."
  
  As usual, she was happier/nicer later (maybe after her glass of alcohol had been absorbed) and said she would never leave them nor I.  Before bed, she apologized for her outburst to me.  I could only say "OK".  Normally, I would forgive her (my nature), but I bit my tongue this time.  For one, I am tired of forgiving, so she can turn around and do something like it again.  Two, her attitude was more directed towards the children.  They need the apology, which they got some of one.
  
  



• This morning, she was having trouble with a website on her phone.  She described it as if it was asking for her location but was not working without it.  I assumed she meant that it was asking for permission to retrieve her location, so I said it should work with a confused look on my face.  I proceeded to tell her that it should let her enter in the zip code after denying permission for the location.  She got her phone and sat down to show me.  The site would not accept the zip code.
  
  She then told me that she felt like she had called Microsoft, and they were telling her to check if the computer was plugged in.  She did this sweetly, but sweetly feels condescending for some reason.
  
  This feels like she is not picking up on the cues (confused look on my face) and my very words "that should work" which tell that I believe her but am confused why it is not working.

I do not know who I am really dealing with.  I have trouble not expecting some turmoil from random things.  From all of this (and more!), I do not care if it works or not, but I do not want fear to rule the outcome.

Does any of this look familiar to people here?  I thought she had just BPD at one time while my mom was inclined to NPD, but it is really looking like a nice little mix of the two.  Does it seem like there is some fight over power involved here?  I sometimes feel like I am imagining things.  Also, is she getting better or merely changing tactics?

At least, I live in interesting times! 

[OutOfEgypt]

Hey Zon,

I feel for your situation.  I was married to a woman for a little over 13 years who was pretty much just like that -combination of BPD/NPD and probably Histrionic.  The thing that is terrible is that you become a slave... . and therefore so does the whole family, children included, because of us.  If daddy lets mommy write all the rules for the house, too, then they are stuck.

Almost everything you mentioned... .

Regular criticism or casting doubt on my abilities to do things (which I eventually came to see as part of her insecurity... . needing to make sure everybody feels at least a *little* bit worse about themselves than she does)

When you seem to "relax" she gets all agitated.  She either would be all "cute" to get me to pay more attention to her, or she would blow up or reject me for not paying enough attention to her for "too long."

Regularly using anything against me to point out how I'm wrong and she is awesome.

Has no boundaries.  Not only does she hate that I finally developed boundaries (or anybody in her little circle, since we should all revolve around her), but she has none... . she tells anything, even very private things, to almost complete strangers.

Regular demand for apprecation.  For her, it was the house.  She punished us by staying in bed all the time because we all don't obviously care enough about her to make the house spotless ALL the time and do things HER way all the time.  Of course, I know that is not really why she stayed in bed all the time, but to her it made sense... . and so did the next excuse... . and the next one.


You get to the point where the entire household revolves around this tyrannical mother who, though you all love her, has everybody in chains and walking on eggshells and doing everything to just have mommy be nice or hope that mommy wants to actually be involved and happy with them.

Everything my ex did was about managing some kind of control.  Everything was about HER feelings (and still is).  If you have feelings or perceptions or actions that don't immediately comply with everything she craves from you and demands from you, you are berated and/or rejected and replaced -and even if you DID do it all for her, she would still find things wrong, *just* to keep you thrown off.  Everything is about keeping you thrown off, emotionally... . never at peace, always feeling like you did something wrong, always on the defensive.  You become the pack-mule for all of their emotional crap.  I watched her do it to our son.  I watched her do it to me. I even watched her do it to one of her affair partners -he checked himself into a mental hospital after she rejected him one of the times.

Of course you feel like you are imagining things.  That is the numbness.  It's like a survival instinct.  But it is not healthy because it also keeps you trapped.  And believe me, she wants you to believe you are imagining things, too.  I was always told I was "too sensitive".  What really started to put me over the edge was seeing that she acted this way with her kids, too.  What did they do to deserve it?  Nothing.  So, I started to piece together that it wasn't *me*.  It wasn't merely a figment of my imagination.

To make a very long story short, we eventually divorced.  And then I started to date another woman.  My ex found out and then talked about going to therapy and wanting to reconcile.  she started going to therapy, so I reluctantly (at first) listened. The relationship was a whirlwind, again.  Wonderful, sexual, closer than we've ever felt.  And then she moved back in... . on her terms and time, of course (i didn't invite her).  That was her first step back into taking control.  And I let her.  Why?  I was overwhelmed and swept off my feet.  My better sense said, "Take time apart and let her get well on her own, if she will."  Nope.  And after she moved back in, it went the same way.  Everything revolved around mommy.  Her mutuality died into a totally one-way relationship again.  Then it was my fault that we weren't intimate, because its my job to somehow know exactly how to put her in the mood in every given moment, like I am Jesus who is going to raise the dead.  And then I found out about her with that guy again, and then her with an 18 your old friend of our son.  Nice.  That was enough for me.

And today... . I feel great.  And my kids have hope.  I don't have to walk on eggshells and let her selfish demands for adulation and adoration and total allegiance dominate the home.  This is my home, and I take the kids to see gramma (her mom) because I think that is what is best -don't care if my ex doesn't talk to her mom.  And they are grateful.

And her?  She still loves to be the center of attention. Has to be the best dressed woman at our daugther's graduation, hobknobbing with teachers (although she never sees them all year because I'm the primary parent who actually cares for the kids and gets invovled).  But anything for effect.  I noticed when someone says something funny, she laughs the loudest -like to get everybody to look at her.  When I have to be near her for the kids, I've learned to be friendly and nice.  It's fine.  But she's careful to show me her new shoes, talk to me about how she is on her period, talk to me about some new guy she's talking to, or about how all of her friends are stupid whores.  I smile and nod and usually find some reason for why I have to go.  She'll make sure she grooms me, still.  She'll pluck a stray hair or stratch off a tiny pimple scab on my neck.  Or she'll get *extra* close to me and practically stick her tongue in my ear just to whisper something.  And then there's the occasional bombs... . the little passive aggressive bombs to get me thrown off and defensive.  A comment.  An accusation about how I did something wrong or failed to think about HER, like after taking pictures of a day-trip with me and my kids, she'll ask in a passive-aggressive but sarcastic manner, "No picture for me, huh?"  A joke here and there, a "daddy's too serious... . ha ha ha".  I'm doing much better at detaching from it.  Because I'm FREE!

[Zon]

OutOfEgypt, thank you for sharing your story.  My wife appears to be less extreme on many fronts compared to your ex, but what you say is very enlightening.  The part about being "too sensitive" is something she has said to me and at least one other person in my family about me.

She does a good share of chores and taking care of children.  I should know as she points it out to me and others. 

When you seem to "relax" she gets all agitated.  She either would be all "cute" to get me to pay more attention to her, or she would blow up or reject me for not paying enough attention to her for "too long."

I prefer my wife's cute behavior--it is not overly cute.  However, she can flip from it to agitated quickly, so I still feel on edge.

You get to the point where the entire household revolves around this tyrannical mother who, though you all love her, has everybody in chains and walking on eggshells and doing everything to just have mommy be nice or hope that mommy wants to actually be involved and happy with them.

This is the part that hurts and finally caused me to push back.

Of course you feel like you are imagining things.  That is the numbness.  It's like a survival instinct.  But it is not healthy because it also keeps you trapped.  And believe me, she wants you to believe you are imagining things, too.  I was always told I was "too sensitive".  What really started to put me over the edge was seeing that she acted this way with her kids, too.  What did they do to deserve it?  Nothing.  So, I started to piece together that it wasn't *me*.  It wasn't merely a figment of my imagination.

Seeing her act similarly with our daughter was eye opening, or I finally noticed and realized it for what it was.  This is something I have to keep telling myself, so I remember that it is not me.  If she goes after others the same way, then it cannot be me.  She tries with our son, but he makes stubborn people look like pushovers.  Many times, she holds her head like it is about to burst when he is talking.

Everything my ex did was about managing some kind of control.  Everything was about HER feelings (and still is).  If you have feelings or perceptions or actions that don't immediately comply with everything she craves from you and demands from you, you are berated and/or rejected and replaced -and even if you DID do it all for her, she would still find things wrong, *just* to keep you thrown off.

Ah, yes.  The control.  Many fights feel like she is fighting me for control over something that I do not want control over or there is nothing to control.  I cannot tell if she misunderstands me and lashes out or is using it regardless of understanding as a tool to browbeat me.

She is so much in control that sex has not been instigated by me in years.  It has become unpleasant to broach the subject.  These days, I refuse intimacy (not just sex) because I cannot handle the mind tricks she does around it.

A few questions for you:

• How long was she "normal" before she became her true self?



• Did she consider therapy before she moved out and you started dating another woman?



• When she got angry, did her demeanor and expression change to something unlike her?  I describe my wife as dark and cold when she does.



• Did she have sane moments where she seemed to not worry about control?  If yes, where they more often than not?



• Did she try to use people against you?



• Was it hard, at first, for the children to adapt to her leaving?



• What was it like to date someone else that HOPEFULLY did not have similar traits as your ex?



• Did your individual therapy help you decide/give you the strength to divorce her?
  
  
• Did you feel guilty, in some part, for divorcing her at the time?  You sound happy now.

Thank you again.