First post on the leaving

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I've started my first post on the undecided. .then staying and now leaving...

leaving my upwBPDh after a 4 year marriage and a small son whom will stay by me.

Lawyer appointment set and I'm guilt reddened although I told myself not to look back.

I've emailed him if he wanted to see his son on fathers day... no reply and contact with me for 3 days.

I know about silent treatment but right now it is important to be around and to communicate so that we can reach a peaceful and less costly divorce?

[Not normal]

I've started my first post on the undecided. .then staying and now leaving...

leaving my upwBPDh after a 4 year marriage and a small son whom will stay by me.

Lawyer appointment set and I'm guilt reddened although I told myself not to look back.

I've emailed him if he wanted to see his son on fathers day... no reply and contact with me for 3 days.

I know about silent treatment but right now it is important to be around and to communicate so that we can reach a peaceful and less costly divorce?

[woodsposse]

 

I certainly can feel the emotions you are going through while you make this transition journey.  Please know, I know that feeling all entirely too well.  I have done it (a couple of times) and it is not easy.

I don't know your entire backstory, but if I may share my quick background in an attempt to make my answer to your question a little more ready to hear.

I was married to my first wife for little over three years (together) - and when we split, the actual divorce wasn't finished for a few years after that - but the fireworks continued pretty much until our children were adults (and even a little spark now from time to time).

For the first few years after we split (I moved back home to a different state), she played some serious games with me and the kids.  One day I could talk to them, the next day I couldn't (she wouldn't even pick up the phone).  Then I was the nicest man on the plant, then I was scum.  I tried to go see them once, was gonna drive 20 hours just so I could spend a few hours with them (they were on vacation in a different state than where she lived... . guess she needed a break) - she flipped and said she would go get them before I could get to see them.

I guess she thought I may run off with them.  I wouldn't... . but that didn't stop how she was thinking.

Then, a little while later she volunteered to have me come see them.  So I started visiting them in their state, brought them up to spend a few weeks in summer with me, was able to fly down and see them some weekends because of work (It was just lucky I had work not too far from them and could see them on some weekends when my work was done before I flew home).  But even then, one weekend, we planned for me to spend the weekend with them - and even though she knew I was coming to town, she took the girls out of town and stayed gone all weekend... . no call... . no nothing.  So I sat in a hotel room FUMING all weekend - postponed my flight going home just so I could see my children... . but she never returned or answered her phone until just before I had to get on the plane.

I was very upset - and rightfully so.  I had no idea why she would do such a thing.  We had been doing so well - no arguments - no nothing.  Just up and pulled this!  Anyway, I couldn't get "too upset" and angry because that may have upset the "positive flow" between us... . which is another way to say she would get angry pissy mad and prevent me from seeing my children.

So... . I did all of this "changing" so her and I could have a decent relationship, I put up with her manipulating and trying to control me by using the kids.  Even to the point I felt that my feelings of hurt and anger were somehow wrong after all the stuff she did... . just so she could have some kind of control over the relationship... . and me!

Well, just prior to getting on the plane I had met with a local attorney and started the process of filing for custody of my children.  There was no more trying to work things out with her because things were so skewed and backwards.  I was never going to get her to understand that the conflict we have between us is that I'm sane and she's batshoot crazy!  And me trying to get the very simple point across (in this context) that she can not hold my children hostage from me and expect us to have a decent relationship.

Un-crazy people do not use their children like that against their other parent.

So, I just let the courts decide.

Whatever the cost or level of unpeacefulness didn't matter at that point.  Her actions were directly negatively affecting my peace and my relationship as a father to his kids.  The long term implications of such parental alienation is and would be profound.  It was a long shot for sure, but there was really nothing else I could have done.

Long story short - I ended up with custody of my girls, and raised them to adults (with my second wife) - all the while keeping the bio-mom at bay from continuing to influence my girls in a negative way.  Of course, once they came to live with me, all the horror stories of what the bio-mom did to them came flying out.  All the negative things she said about me (which were untrue) came to light... . and I had to battle each one - and everytime I had to talk to her or combat any of the negative things she did which still affect my children a bit of me died inside... . because it was all such a waste.

Is it important to be around and communicate so that you can reach a peaceful and less costly divorce?

Nope.  It is at times like this that we all (whether you have a PD or not) tend to work on adrenaline and emotions.  Logic, although there, is very compromised and can tend to be a little faulty.  And perspectives shift... . meaning, whether you know it or not you are looking at the current state of your r/s only from your perspective - because the person you are splitting from is only looking at the r/s from theirs... . and your two perspectives don't match.

Much like when I wanted to drive for 20 hours to see my kids for a few hours (which was my motivation) - her perspective was I would probably steal the kids to make her upset.  Her perspective has always been very negative towards her (I understand the psychology of it, now.  She was molested as a kid and a lot of her control was taken away - so in her attempt to retain control, she used it on me through our children, or sex, or whatever.  So I get it... . I even understood it back then.  But I over thought it - it is really much simpler than I make it out to be.  I would never be the person to 'steal' my kids... . but she would be.  which is why she was so afraid I would come see them.  I would never be the person to keep her from her kids.  But that is exactly what she did to me.  And even when I put some safeguards in place if she wanted to come visit the kids, which any responsible parent would do - she turned it and made it out to be that I was stopping her from seeing them or talking to them... . which I never did.  But she would and has... . so that is all she knows).

But I digress.

Perspectives are different.  And unless you want to really get in there and understand and come to peace with how he is viewing the world... . then you may as well stay together to work that out which means you wouldn't be getting a divorce.

But something tells me you have already gone the route of trying to understand, come to peace and work things out with him... . and it just isn't working.

so... . no.  It isn't important to be around and communicate - it is important for you to take care of yourself and your child.  The divorce is going to cost as much as it is going to cost.  You putting your "emotions' on the line in an attempt to reach some state of peace (which will never happen) in order to save a few dollars is a high price to pay.

But... . that is just my humble opinion.

[arjay]

... . "Is it important to be around and communicate so that you can reach a peaceful and less costly divorce?... . "

I agree with woodsposse on this one (Nope).  I was in counseling during the divorce proceedings and my T reminded me to "stay unemotional; unattached; almost blaming myself when there was any correspondence".  It is not about being "right" with them but about navigating their emotions.

The "T" reminded me that the more I was emotionally engaged, the more it would ignite her emotions.  Staying detached, saying little when I had to say something, staying bland, unemotional, etc. was the best way to proceed.  I let her blame me and would say nothing or come across as confused and uninteresting.  It actually helped too.

Hope this helps

[talithacumi]

I know about silent treatment but right now it is important to be around and to communicate so that we can reach a peaceful and less costly divorce?

That's what your lawyer is for.

I agree with arjay and woodsposse. Your ex is going to be triggered enormously by this decision/change - will be thinking only about how to make himself feel better/more secure regardless of how his actions/behaviors/choices effect you and/or your son. He will be a storm of conflicting emotions to which he'll compulsively react without any thought of anyone's peace, happiness, welfare, or safety other than his own.

You must shelter and keep yourself/your son as safe as you possibly can from that storm right now. Go NC and use your lawyer or another third party to both negotiate and facilitate getting his current needs/desires/rights met. It will be better for everyone in the end - including, most significantly, him - to do everything you can to minimize the damage he's going to inadvertently, unintentionally, and, yes, even intentionally do as he tries to find some way to deal with what's going on right now.

So sorry you're going through this right now. Be safe. Be well. Hole yourself up with your son, snuggle in warm/safe, and love yourself both up as much as you can. It's going to take a while, but you will get through this.

- TC

[woodsposse]

I wish I had found this board and started to understand everything I was actually dealing with back either right before or right after my ex wife and I split. 

I was very set after she left to not want to talk to her - and have minimum contact with her.  Just let her go and live her life and leave me alone.  I was confused, hurt, angry and broken.  So a few months later when I started seeing a young lady and my wife jumped into a mode where she had to have me again (but not really), the extinction burst began and she tried to make sure I wouldn't further "abandon" her... . even though she moved out, was living in a new apartment and had a new boyfriend and pregnant a few short months later.  (Of course she started the r/s with him while we were still together, but that is a different post).

If I could have come to the understanding that I was really dealing with a pwPD and what that truly meant, I would have battened down the hatches and put on headphones or something to drown out her words which helped further the confusion and extend the period of time for detachment.

During which time, all the running around in my head caused me to loose focus and dedication to the other things in my life which were important (school, work, etc).  I spent so much time ruminating and wanting her to come back even while trying to move forward.  Talk about being in a fog.

Even now, so far after the time we split - her with a new man, and babies and half the life I use to have with her, I still drift and my mind goes to "what ifs"... . and maybe there is still something we could do to be in each others lives just so I don't have to have that huge hole.

Even a little bit of something nice from the past could be enough to find the actual closure needed?  It's a rhetorical question.

My emotional needs which may pop up from time to time still missing that part of my life can and will never be soothed by having her in my life - or even trying to have an "open door" or be "friends".  The logistics of that are mind blowing. And would only lead in some form or fashion to continue to be stuck, or get stuck, back in a time long gone.

And that can't be good for anyone.

[Not normal]

Thanks so much for the great feedback and encouragement.

Sometimes I'm so detached that I feel such comfort from all of you. Maybe the result of years of invalidated emotions.

A brief background:

Fell in love, got pregnant, got married, was the queen of his world until being barely a year together, I was beginning to be painted black. I didnt understand why he was this way, did a search on passive aggressive husband behaviour and it got me to this great forum 2 years ago.

It's in my nature to be compassionate, patient, and was sucked into this sickness to be the rescuer.

Till now, the co-dependencies and guilt are with me all the time, waiting for another 4 days before my appointment with the lawyer is making me extremely nervous.

I'm afraid that I might turn around and 'forgive' him if he should contact me during the week to talk.

I dont have a therapist, girfriends are happy that I'm finally leaving. I feel that I will let them down more than my son if I were to go back to him.

I keep repeating to myself the 1 thing that he did last weekend that prompted me to call it quits.

He kicked me and my son(4) out of the house to my mom's just because he wasnt getting my full attention ( i'm having a tough work period, which is easing now).

He's a high functioning pwBPD. Hides it will and does well in his career. To those that know him for 2 or more years, they will know that something is strange with him (alot of nervous energy) but cannot point the finger on what problem he has.

With me and son, we help musk this from the outside world with only those close to me that know about it.

His friends may well been manipulated, and it has never bothered with me. I do turn up at some parties and can feel their nervousness around me, afraid that they might offend me.

Another thing that I remind myself is what my son said to me after our last fight. He asked me not to shout and throw his trains as he was trying to snuggle and fall asleep but I was being too noisy and he cant have sweet dreams. My heart was shattered and it was so wrong.

It was late at night I told h that I was tired and we could talk another time. He flipped and said I agreed to move out over the weekend and that he's amazed that I've not made arrangements with my mother.

I explained that I was tipsy the night before when we argued and sort of agreed to leave as he wouldnt let me sleep. He said that he didnt realized that I was tipsy, since I agreed to move out then I should.( it had to happen so that it makes sense to him)

He has always been controlling with money, made comments/insults about my Fbook posts and likes, complained about me not being a good parent when I spend almost 100% of the time after work and weekends with son while he's never around.

This time round, the trigger was my designer sunglasses purchase and Fbook post of a family outing.

Because of that, I had to be thrown out of my own matrimonial house?

the actual divorce wasn't finished for a few years after that - but the fireworks continued pretty much until our children were adults (and even a little spark now from time to time).

At what age were your kids when you left their mom and children being sucked in and affected by their illness is my greatest guilt and fear. I've always told myself that I'm the stronger one, I can help my son understand... most of the time it will be me on the receiving end anyway. I went on the forum and read quite alot of stories with children being greatly affected and seeking therapy with their non parent to understand this, even though the divorce was a number of years ago.

For the first few years after we split (I moved back home to a different state), she played some serious games with me and the kids.  One day I could talk to them, the next day I couldn't (she wouldn't even pick up the phone).  Then I was the nicest man on the plant, then I was scum.  I tried to go see them once, was gonna drive 20 hours just so I could spend a few hours with them (they were on vacation in a different state than where she lived... . guess she needed a break) - she flipped and said she would go get them before I could get to see them.

That was so sick. My H will be heading back to the UK after the split for sure. Son and I will remain in Asia.

Not sure how the distance plays, I dont think he will communicate much with us. Then again, I really shouldnt assume anything.

Un-crazy people do not use their children like that against their other parent.

So, I just let the courts decide.

Whatever the cost or level of unpeacefulness didn't matter at that point.  Her actions were directly negatively affecting my peace and my relationship as a father to his kids. 

Hear Hear!

You must shelter and keep yourself/your son as safe as you possibly can from that storm right now. Go NC and use your lawyer or another third party to both negotiate and facilitate getting his current needs/desires/rights met. It will be better for everyone in the end - including, most significantly, him - to do everything you can to minimize the damage he's going to inadvertently, unintentionally, and, yes, even intentionally do as he tries to find some way to deal with what's going on right now.

  I'm putting your advice in my notebook or reminders for me not to head backwards.

[Not normal]

During which time, all the running around in my head caused me to loose focus and dedication to the other things in my life which were important (school, work, etc).  I spent so much time ruminating and wanting her to come back even while trying to move forward.  Talk about being in a fog.

Even now, so far after the time we split - her with a new man, and babies and half the life I use to have with her, I still drift and my mind goes to "what ifs"... . and maybe there is still something we could do to be in each others lives just so I don't have to have that huge hole.

Even a little bit of something nice from the past could be enough to find the actual closure needed?  It's a rhetorical question.

My emotional needs which may pop up from time to time still missing that part of my life can and will never be soothed by having her in my life - or even trying to have an "open door" or be "friends".  The logistics of that are mind blowing. And would only lead in some form or fashion to continue to be stuck, or get stuck, back in a time long gone.

And that can't be good for anyone.

I'm feeling this right now,... Its wrong and I shouldnt hold on to the tiny/ few sweet details of our past lives, but I still do. Again it is the nature of the person to remember the good in a person and not the bad?

I've never been a vindictive or unforgiving person.

I'm quite forgetful about the wrongs done to me by anyone and choose to remember the good anyways.

The mind holds great power. Most of the time we are not strong enough to tame it,... . babysteps...