An interesting coincidence and conclusion?

[Samuel S.]

An interesting coincidence and conclusion? My BPDw calls her mother just before reporting to work. She admitted to me she doesn't want to talk to her much. Coincidentally, my BPDw calls me during her lunch break when she is about done with her lunch. When she is home here, she doesn't talk too much with me, unless she wants to complain about someone or something or wants something. The only time literally at least during the last 5 years we have had any kind of quality time together is just recently when she invited me to go with her for a day ride, although half the time, she was at a workshop. Any thoughts? Do any of you experience something similar? What should I conclude?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

No idea... . but... . trying to conclude anything from stuff like this is probably a pathway to frustration.

Tell me about times you have tried to set up quality time together and it hasn't worked.  Might be easier to think about and try things that you can do differently than for your BPDw.

An interesting coincidence and conclusion? My BPDw calls her mother just before reporting to work. She admitted to me she doesn't want to talk to her much. Coincidentally, my BPDw calls me during her lunch break when she is about done with her lunch. When she is home here, she doesn't talk too much with me, unless she wants to complain about someone or something or wants something. The only time literally at least during the last 5 years we have had any kind of quality time together is just recently when she invited me to go with her for a day ride, although half the time, she was at a workshop. Any thoughts? Do any of you experience something similar? What should I conclude?

[Samuel S.]

I have tried numerous times to suggest to her that we do something together, such as this day trip or going to a movie or going out to dinner; however, she retorts by saying she has to have her own time and space. While I respect her need to have her own time and space, when it is all the time, it is like I am beating my head against the wall to hopefully get some quality, but with no possible results. So, when she MIGHT have something to do that basically is going to be for her such as that recent day trip, then, she will ask. Otherwise, like I stated, it's been a long, long time since she and I have really had a relationship.

Frankly, she is seeing a "therapist-medium" for the past 10 years. While this person has helped her with her grief, this person is basically a male hater, too, and against marriage. This person never encourages my BPDw to try to have a relationship with me. This person just wants my BPDw to solely focus on herself.

So, as you can see, for me to even continue suggesting that we do things together becomes a lot of wasted air, bottom line. If she wants to do something with me (which is extremely rare), fine. Otherwise, she doesn't respect my wishes.

[formflier]

So, as you can see, for me to even continue suggesting that we do things together becomes a lot of wasted air, bottom line. If she wants to do something with me (which is extremely rare), fine. Otherwise, she doesn't respect my wishes.

Think about this advice for a while... . and maybe some others might chime in and help... .

Do you respect your wishes... . with your actions?  I think a strategy of letting her know what you are going to do, inviting her to come... . and then doing it... . regardless of if she comes... . is something you should consider. 

When changing strategies... . important not to make snap decisions.  Think them through so you are confident you can stick with them long term. 

[Samuel S.]

I really do appreciate your feedback! I really do! I do offer suggestions about doing things together, but she has consistently said that she is tired, that she has no time for herself, that she wants to continue pursuing her second career by attending college which she is doing. So, she does make up all kinds of excuses. So, when I have dealt this continuous monologue and even though I have offered many a time only to be denied, yes, I do follow through and do the things myself that I had suggested that we do together. I don't make snap decisions, and I do think very carefully and am confident about what I want. But, she is so immersed in her stuff, that there's no time for us. BTW, she even admitted to me "there is no us". But, I do think she is confused, because if "there is no us", she would not be complaining to me. So, at least, I am good for something other than paying a good portion of the bills! Yet, I am worth more than that, and she knows it. Nevertheless, her actions speak louder than her words! On the other hand, my words are followed by my actions!

[formflier]

My guess is that you should reduce your words some and up your actions.  One of the hard lessons I have had to learn... and I'm still learning is to say it once... . say it clear... . and move along.  You want to avoid the continuous monologue... . unless there is something you think is good coming out of it.

She is immersed in her stuff because that is what she chose. 

Hang in there

I really do appreciate your feedback! I really do! I do offer suggestions about doing things together, but she has consistently said that she is tired, that she has no time for herself, that she wants to continue pursuing her second career by attending college which she is doing. So, she does make up all kinds of excuses. So, when I have dealt this continuous monologue and even though I have offered many a time only to be denied, yes, I do follow through and do the things myself that I had suggested that we do together. I don't make snap decisions, and I do think very carefully and am confident about what I want. But, she is so immersed in her stuff, that there's no time for us. BTW, she even admitted to me "there is no us". But, I do think she is confused, because if "there is no us", she would not be complaining to me. So, at least, I am good for something other than paying a good portion of the bills! Yet, I am worth more than that, and she knows it. Nevertheless, her actions speak louder than her words! On the other hand, my words are followed by my actions!

[aspiegirl23]

Ok, a few different perspectives... .

1). She really is stressed out doing too much in her life. This is why she keeps needing time to herself because she needs to connect with herself before connecting with you. Can you help to lighten her load somehow?

2). Do you do your own fun things? Maybe if she saw you having fun and being happy it might be more enticing to her to want to join in with you?

3). When you suggest things to do together, are they activities you want to do, or activities she wants to do? Also, have you thought of just being a little dominant and just arranging something for the two of you to do together and lovingly "make" her do it? [Example: "Honey, I have booked us in for dinner tonight at blah blah restaurant, I have bought you a new dress, we are getting picked up at 6pm, and I am going to treat you like a princess - no arguments!]

4). Do you know what makes her feel loved? If so, have you tried just doing all that stuff for her for 2 weeks straight and seen the results? Sometimes we need to fill our partner's "love tank" up before our own can get filled. (Have you read the book "The 5 Love Languages"?]

5). What did you guys used to do together when you first got together? Can you do that again? (even if it is lots of sex/physical touch like a massage or something)

Just a few things. Sounds like you need a lot of affirmation of her love too, I can hear that and that is totally understandable. I hope you can resolve it and get the relationship you want back again.

[Fanie]

Im going to try to tell you about our relationship the past few months

(previously it was little different)

Married 11 years 2 toddlers

She is in her own world

She does talk somewhat with me about herself, the kids and her work

No talking about her friends and hours of her phone calls with them every evening

Not interested at all in what I say. If I try to tell her , she wanders off to something somewhere else in the house

But with the phone calls she intensely listens to the other side ... .

Also, "there is no us"

but she doesn't want me to leave (move out)

said we can get back, but "we must take it slow"

(Long history on my side)

Take care !

[formflier]

Yes... . !

The key is to be unapologetic about doing the things below.

DO NOT get drug into all the reasons why it won't work.

If you set up the nice dinner... . and she won't go... . YOU GO and enjoy yourself.  She makes her choices... you make yours.

Ok, a few different perspectives... .

1). She really is stressed out doing too much in her life. This is why she keeps needing time to herself because she needs to connect with herself before connecting with you. Can you help to lighten her load somehow?

2). Do you do your own fun things? Maybe if she saw you having fun and being happy it might be more enticing to her to want to join in with you?

3). When you suggest things to do together, are they activities you want to do, or activities she wants to do? Also, have you thought of just being a little dominant and just arranging something for the two of you to do together and lovingly "make" her do it? [Example: "Honey, I have booked us in for dinner tonight at blah blah restaurant, I have bought you a new dress, we are getting picked up at 6pm, and I am going to treat you like a princess - no arguments!]

4). Do you know what makes her feel loved? If so, have you tried just doing all that stuff for her for 2 weeks straight and seen the results? Sometimes we need to fill our partner's "love tank" up before our own can get filled. (Have you read the book "The 5 Love Languages"?]

5). What did you guys used to do together when you first got together? Can you do that again? (even if it is lots of sex/physical touch like a massage or something)

Just a few things. Sounds like you need a lot of affirmation of her love too, I can hear that and that is totally understandable. I hope you can resolve it and get the relationship you want back again.

[Samuel S.]

Your perspectives are really good, all of which I have done over and over again. Let's take each one at a time.

1) Indeed, she is very stressed. In order to alleviate her stress, I listen and validate what she says. She talks and complains. I rarely give her advice, because she needs to simply vent oftentimes. Thus, this is the way I lighten her load of stress. In fact, she sometimes even says "thank you for listening" which is basically my middle name, not only personally, but also professionally. I also lighten her load by making her breakfast every morning, doing the laundry, and doing a majority of the shopping.

2) Yes, I do my own things for the fun of it. She likes some of the things that I do, which I have suggested that she joins me; however, she gets so involved with her stress, with her work, with her college studies even though she is off for the summer, that she only wants to have time for herself. In fact, just last night, she printed up all the notes of a class she will be taking in the fall so that she can study up on them so that she will be that much more prepared. Thus, I truly do think she is almost obsessive about so many things, that she cannot fill in time with simply enjoying herself or with me, until she finally collapses by sleeping half the day.

3) Being slightly dominant with her or assertive doesn't work with her. Although you say that I should not get drug into all the reasons why it won't work, she goes through all the reasons, but especially saying that she needs time for herself. While I respect and understand her reasoning, there are only sparse moments that she wants me, especially to vent as I have already mentioned.

4) I haven't read the book you have mentioned, but I can give it a try and see what happens. I do know what she likes, and I do those things for her, like getting her a Jamba Juice smoothie or getting her flowers, both of which she likes. It turns out to be a mild "thank you", and she will complain about whatever or whomever. It is almost like she cannot accept random acts of kindness, which is exactly how I am.

5) We used to have fun for most of the time when we were courting. Then, she became involved in her therapy with a medium for the past 10 years. This medium has focused on my BPDw to work on herself which is all fine and good, because she has always been a giver. I mentioned to her a while back that it is almost like she has gone from being a giver to mostly a taker. So, she has gone to the other extreme, which she freely admits she has done.

As for making reservations on my own for dinner or preparing dinner for her, I have never done that. You see, every time that I have suggested that we do something together that she enjoys like taking a ride in the country etc., she again is too tired and wants time for herself.

Indeed, I do go and enjoy myself. Yes, she makes her choices, and I make my own. I feel free and much happier then, although at the same time, I wish she were to spare some time together with me. Again, she is obsessive, sad to say.

[aspiegirl23]

Yeah it sounds really tough  To be with someone you love and do so much for, only to have them treat you like you are basically invisible. That sux

You have every right to be feeling how you do!

My BPDh was doing this a little over the past year. he was so caught up in his drinking and other stuff. Things totally changed though one day when he was raging and grabbed my phone and looked at the message I had just sent. I had smsd my best friend that I was going to give it 7 months and see if he changed otherwise I was done. And I meant it.

Well, after reading this, he quit drinking and gradually became the man I first fell in love with all over again and things are now better than ever (still got our awful days, but amongst that is wonderful stuff). Knowing that I was seriously considering leaving him totally made him snap and change. We are BOTH so much happier now.

I am not saying you should play any sort of game with her here, but has she ever felt as though she might seriously lose you?

[Samuel S.]

I am glad you have had your success! Good for you! In fact, I commend you for doing what you have done!

Yeah, there were about six different times shortly after we first got married, that I started packing. My BPDw admitted she was jealous of my D40 from my first marriage. My BPDw became really irrational. I tried talking with her, validating her, and making sense with her that I love her (my BPDw) as my wife and that I love my D40 as a daughter. It was only after several years that she understood. BTW, she has her own D17. So, she finally saw the light. She saw that I was really angry with her, and she changed her tune. However, she won't see my D40, which is okay with my D40 and with me.

As for now and leaving, I am exhausted about even contemplating that idea. Underneath all that stuff, there is a woman who is hurting, that needs validation, but so do I, but she refuses to recognize that! She only recognizes herself!

[aspiegirl23]

As for now and leaving, I am exhausted about even contemplating that idea. Underneath all that stuff, there is a woman who is hurting, that needs validation, but so do I, but she refuses to recognize that! She only recognizes herself!

Yep, that is definitely the main theme I am picking up on here. Is there any way you can help to validate yourself without it coming from her?

It sounds like you really need some life force put back into you stat! Are there any courses you could do, or can you see someone like a life coach?

[Samuel S.]

Yeah, you're right! I do need some more zap personally with a life coach. I guess I need to go back into counseling. You see, I think I need to retrain myself to think I am worthy of being validated. I have always been a giver, almost to the extreme. It most definitely has helped me out professionally, with me becoming our school district's high school teacher of the year and a mentor teacher. Point well taken! I will call my counselor to see when she is available.

There's something else, which is really hard for me to admit. Because I have given so much and because I have done so much personally to make things work with my BPDw, I feel like a damm failure, because I have loved her, and my BPDw has stayed her distance. I know I am wrong to feel that way, but I have taken it out on myself by overeating and gaining weight.

Yeah, I know. I need to get into counseling stat!

[aspiegirl23]

That's great! I am glad you want to do that. We all need someone we can talk to who will listen to us and validate us. Especially when you are always doing that for everyone else all the time. Counselors, etc, get counselling themselves too. Nice work being your school district's high school teacher of the year btw, that is some achievement.

I can understand the failure thing. Relationships are so hard! And then add a partner with BPD and wow! You haven't failed though. You have done your best at every choice with the information you have had at the time. You have all the right intentions and motivations and efforts. You have done everything you have had control over. Sorry about the weight gain from overeating. I do that too and it sux  Feels good to get back on top of it again though.

Good luck with the counselling, I am sure it will help heaps!

[Fanie]

you like you are basically invisible

  :'(

TOUGH LOVE !

[Sadsue]

Hi, I totally understand and live the same miserable life.  I think I have the reason they act In this way, this is certainly the case with my husband, is because their whole life is an act, trying to be upbeat when they are feeling constantly depressed and anxious and having to put on a face to the outside world that when they get home they are exhausted by it and literally have nothing left to give their loved ones.

Because they only think of themselves they don't even realise the affect their behaviour has on us.  There is nothing more frustrating than seeing what a great, happy, outgoing, charming person they appear to be by the outside world, to hear them chatting and laughing with other people yet can't even say two civil words to us. 

My husband doesn't speak to me for days, he locks himself away, when he gets in from work I would just love him to come breezing in, say hi, ask about my day and sit over a meal and chat.  This never happens, when he gets in he just walks through without even looking at me and goes up to his office and I don't see him all night. He now eats on his way home or brings himself a takeaway, never asks if I want one.

On the rare occasions he does speak it's because he has had a good day and talks non stop about himself, he has no interest in me whatsoever, if I try and talk about something about he he doesn't listen, just stares at the tv or plays with his phone.

I have tried so many times to arrange fun things for us to do but this always always backfires.  For some reason planning activities is one of his triggers and is a sure fire way for him to start raging a few days before, sometimes he just pulls out of the plans, sometimes we go but under a cloud and it almost always ends in a row.

He even argued with with me and went up to our room without me on our wedding night, he was asleep when I went up about 15 mins later!   After paying for hotels, buying theatre tickets, theme park tickets, booking restaurants etc and him letting me down I have decided no longer to waste my money,  I have wasted hundreds if pounds doing this, I no longer even try.  Yes it's sad, yes it's lonely, remember you're not alone.

I don't expect our relationship to last, but I know I am capable of giving and receiving love and enjoying life,  I know one day I will leave and move on and find the life I deserve.  I also know that he isn't capable of any of that and will ultimately lead a miserable life.

Keep strong and live your life for you x

[Fanie]

Its really hard - we all understand, and we are here with you 

If I may ask, do you have children in the house ?