Need to Tell BPD Spouse Want Divorce, Need to Stay in Home

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I hate to be debbie downer here, but when a custody case is active, and especially when it hasn't been resolved, the court probably won't let you take her to a foreign country. Your wife would have to agree... .

I am a U.S. diplomat and will need to be overseas next summer in any case.  I just need to work out the kind of custody arrangement that will allow me to see and spend time with my DD.  DD is already "turned" by her mother. 

I read through a psych evaluation of my DW this morning, and boy did she pull the wool over the eyes of this professional!  The evaluator commented, "among other things: 

DW suggests a tendency to portray self as relatively free of shortcomings to which most people would admit (understatement)

Preoccupation with understanding precipitating interpersonal complexities

Likely to resist therapy to address difficulties (true)

Reports loving relationship with spouse (surprise!)

Solid appreciation for healthy mutually reciprocal relationships (Huh?)

Affect constriction around aggressive/competitive feelings towards those in authority place DW at risk for becoming "emotionally overwhelmed" and making decisions without thinking through the consequences. esp. where she feels shamed, ridiculed or ostracized

Needs to avoid situations where her self worth and intellectual capacity are not valued or recognized. 

[fsoduck]

I hate to be debbie downer here, but when a custody case is active, and especially when it hasn't been resolved, the court probably won't let you take her to a foreign country. Your wife would have to agree... .

I am a U.S. diplomat and will need to be overseas next summer in any case.  I just need to work out the kind of custody arrangement that will allow me to see and spend time with my DD.  DD is already "turned" by her mother. 

I read through a psych evaluation of my DW this morning, and boy did she pull the wool over the eyes of this professional!  The evaluator commented, "among other things: 

DW suggests a tendency to portray self as relatively free of shortcomings to which most people would admit (understatement)

Preoccupation with understanding precipitating interpersonal complexities

Likely to resist therapy to address difficulties (true)

Reports loving relationship with spouse (surprise!)

Solid appreciation for healthy mutually reciprocal relationships (Huh?)

Affect constriction around aggressive/competitive feelings towards those in authority place DW at risk for becoming "emotionally overwhelmed" and making decisions without thinking through the consequences. esp. where she feels shamed, ridiculed or ostracized

Needs to avoid situations where her self worth and intellectual capacity are not valued or recognized. 

[fsoduck]

Has anyone informed their BPD spouse that they want a divorce or had them served papers in the presence of a therapist?  Is this advisable?

[scraps66]

Regardless of the option taken, the option must assure that your STBx actually gets the papers.  I had mine maield to the house, and she simply avoided getting the mail - witch she would usually do every day... . so she could go through mail addressed to ME!  That left me with the papers in hand for a period of three weeks, and then I served her myself.  That was dangerouse for me little did I know. 

[Matt]

Has anyone informed their BPD spouse that they want a divorce or had them served papers in the presence of a therapist?  Is this advisable?

Seems to me like a good idea.

My wife filed for divorce;  we agreed to put it on hold and go to counseling;  and several months later it was clear to me that the marriage couldn't be saved.  I told her and the MC that together.  She had chosen the MC, and they had good rapport;  my wife didn't seem to hold it against me that I told her with someone else present.  By that time we had little intimacy left anyway... .

[ugghh]

Fso,  as you have seen from far more experienced members the pattern of BPD reaction often follows the same pattern that many here have already experienced.  Sadly the pain and craziness of living with a BPD kind of bonds us all together.   I literally moved out the night I told my uBPDw that I would no longer tolerate her behavior and wanted a divorce.  By listening to others here I was prepared with an escape plan and had a bag packed in the car before I ever said anything to her.  Of course at that point I did not have the strength to face her and tell her that I had made that preparation, so when she lashed out and insisted that I must move out, I made a grand act of packing yet another bag for her to witness, so she could yet again feel in charge.  After about 3 weeks with family I moved into a rental unit within the kids school district.  Again part of the plan for maximizing my chances of a favorable outcome with my kids.

Short term steps

1) Make sure you are clear on what your goals are for the divorce.  Whether it be 50/50 custody, financial terms, who stays in the house, etc.   Because I went in with a somewhat strategic plan at the beginning I believe it allowed me to make better decisions as the case progressed.  For example, I did not want the house and I knew she did not want the house, but by me moving out first it gave me some leverage at settlement.

2) If you intend to stay in the house multiple digital voice recorders are a must.  Remember the goal is not so much to catch your spouse doing bad things but to protect yourself in the event of the police being called.  If you stay in the house, you should always have one on you and running.

3) Again if you are staying in the house, you must have a place in which you stay securely as well as lock when you are away.

4) If you have any items (personal mementos, firearms, your dads watch, etc.) you may want to consider subtly beginning to remove them for safekeeping.

5) Although you want to stay in the home, be prepared that you may not have a choice.  Have a bag packed as well as have a conversation with a family member or friend with whom you could stay for a bit on short notice. 

6) In my case I also took the steps of warning both my direct supervisor and HR department that she may call with wild accusations (yes she did).

7) Consider ways to limit contact with your stbx, or at least ways in which you can have documentation to protect yourself.  Withing 3 weeks of telling her that I wanted a divorce, I had to literally completely stop any phone conversations with my stbx.  Why you might ask? Because I had nothing to gain and much to lose.  Many BPDs thrive in being able to wear down others through verbal abuse and circular conversations.  By limiting my communications to email and text I instead put myself in charge of the conversation.

Most importantly continue to seek the help of your counselor, they provide a valuable grounding point to help you take care of yourself as  the stress level will almost certainly ramp up.

[Matt]

Wow - super good ideas from Ugh!  Would have saved me a lot of trouble if I had followed this approach... .

[livednlearned]

Something that occurred to me too during my divorce... . and this might only be if you move out.

Does it make sense to stop putting maximum $$$ into retirement? These divorces take a long time, and you'll be splitting that money down the middle, most likely. I think the date when you file the QDRO becomes the official amount to be split.

If you move out, there's a period where it's kind of a free-for-all. I had to be strategic and withdraw money ahead of time to support myself until we settled stuff in mediation. It's a bit stunning how loose lawyers are when they try to decide who gets what. Anything you take out now will be counted as an advance on the settlement.

It's unfortunate, but BPD makes us pay a lot more money in legal fees than is necessary. So bank up if you can.

[fsoduck]

Thanks for the insights.  I have plenty of savings, but they are all in my retirement accounts.  My BPDw would need to sign off on any withdrawals from them unless there are extenuating circumstances.  I have no interest in keeping the house(s), except I would want BPDw to either buy me out or sell and split the equity.  I also want to make sure there is enough money to cover my DD's college. 

I can do one of two things at this point:  I can file immediately and get a court date or I can hold out for a year and take the "no fault" route after I am on assignment for a year.  However, I will be overseas and DD would be with DW. So, I am not sure what a great idea that will be. 

If I file immediately, I will need to either: a) stay in the house with the BPDw; or b) move out and find my own place. I already have a "mad bag' packed and in my car and a place to go very short term if need be. 

My immediate concerns are:  1) what type of custody arrangement is realistic and how can I safeguard the emotional, spiritual and physical well-being of my DD?  2) how can I disentangle my finances from BPDw so that I can move forward with continuing to save for retirement, pay down debt and get my DD through college.

Why do attorneys always advise you to stay in the house if you can? 

[GaGrl]

Does your wife have her own retirement account/savings?  If not, one of the financial settlements may involve what she gets from your accounts.  There could be a percentage of civil service pension, IRA, 401K, etc.

You mentioned having her buy out your share of the house... . one of my friends ended up settling for ownership of the house in exchange for claiming none of her husband's retirement account.  You may consider that.

I believe most of the recommendations to stay in the house have been in situations in which there was a custody situation at risk, i.e., the person moving out would be put in a position of less than 50/50 time with the children and thus at risk of getting temp or permanent custody orders of less than what was desired.  Also, if one vacates the house, it might indicate one doesn't want ownership/residency of the house when time comes for the settlement.  Just things to consider, and they may not even apply to your situation, since you are anticipating the extended assignment/don't really want to live in the house/have an older child nearing her own majority.

[livednlearned]

Why lawyers recommend we stay: Leaving gives the other side the argument that you abandoned the marital home -- and that could affect your custody argument. I think this varies by state, but that's how it works where I live.

My L wanted me to stay too. But, she said to leave if I was in danger. She said best-case scenario was to get N/BPDx removed from the house, but I was too scared to do that. Next best-case scenario was leaving and taking S12 with me. That's what I did.

Some (unfortunate) scenarios that could protect your custody rights if you end up leaving:

If you decide to stay and your wife physically abuses you, call the police so there is a record of it. Document it yourself in some way if you don't contact the police, like write an email to her and see if she will engage and make an admission that she did something. Court pays attention to emails.

If your wife is abusive or screams at your in front of your D, record it or somehow document it. That can also protect your custody if you decide to leave. Your defense is that you didn't want to put your D in that environment. The key is to document it... . so make sure you can record with permission. It's different in every state. Ask you L how recording would play out in court. Sometimes just the hint that their behavior has been recorded will help your case because pwBPD don't want it made public.

You need a defensible reason why you left, unfortunately.

[Matt]

I left, because my wife assaulted me and accused me of assaulting her, and the court gave her temporary possession of the home.

When that was lifted, I decided not to return to the family home, because I was concerned - and my lawyer was even more concerned - that being there would be likely to repeat the pattern - more verbal abuse, maybe physical abuse, and maybe false accusations.  And if it happened again the consequences could be even worse.

It didn't hurt me in the custody case, because I established the maximum practical contact with the kids right away, and kept it up til custody was decided.  My wife's lawyer claimed my wife was the kids' "primary" parent, but I showed that wasn't true - I had a log showing the kids were with me more than with their mom since the separation.  That worked.

It's best if you can get the other parent to leave, but if the home isn't safe for you, or if the stress is too high to live in the same place as the other parent, you can probably neutralize the impact of leaving, by showing there was a good reason to leave, and by maintaining at least as much contact with the kids as the other parent.

[fsoduck]

My BPDw physically assaulted me last night.  She threw a large and heavy bracelet at me.  She threw it hard enough that it left an impression in the drywall behind me and smashed a small sculpture on a table.  She then came at me with a pair jeans and started whipping me with them - leaving a nice large welt on my shoulder. I managed to lock myself in the bathroom.  She left the house and when she came home she is with my DD - telling her what a bad father I am, how I cheat on her, etc. 

There is some strange, twisted relationship between the two of them.  Is my daughter becoming BPD too? She saw me taking pictures of the wall damage and asked rather sarcastically is that for a court case?  She then told me I am nothing b/c I left her at the most difficult time for her.  She in Mom are later just yucking it up downstairs in front of the TV as if nothing happened. 

Over the weekend, DD lost it on me and screamed an yelled b/c we were late to some event.  When I told her that she could not talk that way with me b/c I am her father, her mother chimed in and did not back me up while DD then smiled as DW undermined my authority! 

I am so confused.  DW rages - at me, at DD - but I am the devil in both of their eyes! 

[Matt]

So you took pictures of the damage to the wall - that's very good.  And the broken sculpture, and the welts?

Have you talked with a family law attorney or a criminal defense attorney?

Are you planning to take any other actions, like telling the police what happened, or getting a restraining order (sometimes called an Order Of Protection)?

If you stay in the home, I think it's likely that the violence will escalate, and that usually ends with the man going to jail.  When a man calls the police, and says, "My wife is attacking me.", he goes to jail more often than she does.  But since this happened already, that risk is lower, so if you take some action now - like getting an RO, an OOP, or telling the police what happened - you're probably at less risk.  A criminal defense attorney could advise you about that.

Staying in the home now puts you at higher and higher risk of false accusations and jail.  It also means you can't fix the relationship with your daughter, because it will continue to be undermined.  When you are living separately from your wife, with a court order giving you at least 50% parenting time, you can have a one-to-one relationship with your daughter, without being constantly undermined.

If you are active - figure out your options and take positive steps - I think it may be possible to kick your wife out of the house, and stay there with your daughter.  If you are passive - keep doing nothing about it - it's more likely you will be kicked out and/or go to jail.

[fsoduck]

I have retained an attorney for divorce already - just this week and we have not filed yet. As for staying in the house, I don't need the house but cannot afford to move out to my own place and also pay the mortgage on the house.  The BPDw works, but refuses to contribute to anything financially. 

[fsoduck]

And took pictures of the welts too and then sent an e-mail to BPDW describing her behavior, telling her it was not acceptable in order to establish boundaries and consequences and to also document what happened.  Sometimes she responds to these.  Sometimes not, but when she does it is usually rage by e-mail in all cap letters.  So, the crazy comes through b/c she will write something to the effect of how I "provoked" her by being an ___hole and that I got what I deserved. 

She is quite the peach!

[Matt]

And she's going to continue being quite the peach.  Nothing you do or say to her will fix her, and it might provoke her to attack you again or accuse you of something.

Talk to your attorney and find out your options.

For example, I think if you act fast - today or tomorrow - you could probably get her out of the home and get a restraining order.  Let her find a place to live and pay for it with what she makes.  You keep paying the mortgage.  The court will establish a parenting schedule;  usually the child stays home during the week and spends some time on the weekend with the other parent.

Or you could move out and use your income to pay for a small place nearby, with a room for your daughter.  Let your wife use her income to pay the mortgage.  Order of protection so she can't come where you live.

You do not have to remain in a place where you are not safe, and you do not have to keep paying for everything.  If your lawyer doesn't give you any good options, talk to a different one.

[ForeverDad]

You've been here since 2010 when your daughter was 11 and you were writing then about starting a divorce.  Four years later, you're still married, apparently nothing filed yet, daughter is four years older and 2-3 years from becoming an adult.

Pardon me for saying this, simply sending an email to your spouse protesting her abuse seems a bit minimal and ineffectual.  Sort of like sticking your arm back into a lion's cage and shake your finger at the lion for attacking you, you won't get a good reaction, for sure.  I fear your spouse may realize at some point that you might really file for divorce and then she will try to preempt you and strike first, making allegations of threat of DV, DV, child abuse, child neglect, child endangerment or some combination thereof... .and worse, your daughter who has had 4 additional years in a dysfunctional environment may be so influenced that she will support her.

I'm guessing that if you do file for divorce, you'll file for your daughter to live with you?  I worry that at her age, nearly ready to learn to drive, she may vote with her feet and choose to live with her mother regardless what any court order states.

Concerning your household finances... .Your spouse refuses to pay for the house.  That's because there is no court order mandating an equitable division of expenses you each pay.  Why don't you file asking for the temp order to have her contributing toward the home expenses?  You and your lawyer need to sit down and strategize the various scenarios, staying or going, with or without daughter.  You lawyer should be good enough to make sure any temporary order has you pay only a reasonable proportion of the household expenses since you spouse also works, especially if you're not going to be there.

My BPDw physically assaulted me last night.

You need to include that in your divorce motion.  (Why didn't you make a prompt police report or document it with your doctor?  The longer you wait the weaker your evidence will be and the less impact it will have.)

If you don't include statements of proofs of her abuse you can be sure she will be claiming that you are the out-of-control abuser in the home.  Well, she'll claim that anyway but at least getting this in first may help you look, um, less bad.  You can stake the stance that whatever she claims post-filing is sour grapes or retaliation or an attempt to sabotage your custody.

Do you want the house?  If not, in your filing ask for her to buy out your equity, if any, or if she declines then for it to be promptly sold and marital equity, if any, split.  The point is that you want any obligation on your part (mortgage) to be ended.  Can she afford to assume payments on the house?

Likely she'll try to keep your daughter for majority time and thus be able to get child support.  But if you're not living in the house then the court order ought to state she must pay for most or all of those expenses.

So don't get a wimpy form-filing attorney.  You need one to assertively represent you.  Proactive or else you'll be slammed every which way but up.  What is ProActive?

Talk to your attorney and find out your options.

For example, I think if you act fast - today or tomorrow - you could probably get her out of the home and get a restraining order.  Let her find a place to live and pay for it with what she makes.  You keep paying the mortgage.  The court will establish a parenting schedule;  usually the child stays home during the week and spends some time on the weekend with the other parent.

Or you could move out and use your income to pay for a small place nearby, with a room for your daughter.  Let your wife use her income to pay the mortgage.  Order of protection so she can't come where you live.

You do not have to remain in a place where you are not safe, and you do not have to keep paying for everything.  If your lawyer doesn't give you any good options, talk to a different one.

I repeat, if you are not proactive, you'll continue to choose inaction, a lousy strategy.  Yes, being proactive isn't going to be easy, your spouse will certainly oppose you and try to sabotage you, and possibly your daughter will join her too.  But the alternative is to continue with weak boundaries, weak strategies and always be on the defensive.  That's how I see it.

[Matt]

FD makes some good points.  (What hurts is that a few years ago he could have said pretty much the same stuff about me... .)

When she does something, like throwing something at you, or undermining your relationship with your daughter, and then you continue on in the relationship - you send her an e-mail which she can argue with, which accomplishes nothing and she probably enjoys the argument - you're sending her a signal:  "What you're doing is OK with me."

The only way to end this pattern is to take strong action to establish boundaries.  That's hard if you keep living with her.

[fsoduck]

Funny thing is, I actually did move out - for overseas assignment and kept extending it. Part of me was thinking DW can get a job, then it would be easier and less of a financial hassle with her working. Additionally, I came back thinking I could "be there" for my DD, but that doesn't seem to be working.  I am scheduled to leave on another deployment in 10 months, so I need to iron everything out by the time I get on a plane.  I called a DV hotline and they said next time - as hard as it may be  - call the police.  There is little they can do after the fact. 

I have another appointment with my attorney next week. 

[ForeverDad]

Sadly, you may not have 10 months.  Things seldom get better or stay the same, the typical pattern is that it gets worse over time.  Partly it's because boundaries are always being tested and pushed, any weakness is seen as a success and enables/encourages even more pushing.

Wouldn't your life be better if you actually did something, sooner rather than later?  Listen to the DV hotline people, next time have your support/strategy ready.  It's been over four years waiting for the perfect time.  Not gonna happen.  Yes, you can bide your time for a while but at the next incident have your voice recorder working, get it recorded (to deflate the denials and counter-blaming to the professionals) then do what you have to do legally and get your life improved.  Forget the useless email that only eggs on denials, blaming and blame-shifting.  I mean, it's a good idea but not by itself, but it has to be coupled with a proactive strategy to triggers changes for the better.