Concerned about my daughter

[OutOfEgypt]

Hi everyone,

I'm divorced from my uBPD and possibly NPD ex wife.  I share joint custody and 50/50 parenting time with our two girls.  Both of them are daddy's girls, but the eldest is in her teens now and is exhibiting attitudes that trouble me.  Obviously, I'm terrified she will become like her mother.

She recognizes and gets angry with her mother's behaviors: inability to take responsbility for things when confronted, emotional neglect, dumping parental responsibilities on her instead of gettingup (waif), always being wrapped up in something else or someone new guy, controlling behaviors, inability to get along with people and family members, etc.  She says she loves mommy, but mommy is a "drama queen."

But lately, I've been noticing attitudes in her that freak me out.  Mainly, what I notice appears to be "splitting", just like her mom, and sometimes some behavior that resembles her mom's "mean streak" and controlling freak-outs (like when I don't water the plants and one of them dies).  

Splitting: she sees things and people in black and white, including herself.  Sometimes she is "awesome".  Other times, "nobody even likes me, daddy."  Peers at school and others are "all dumb."  She is envious of others.  She is reluctant to even get involved in friendships with people who don't have everything in common with her -like she is holding out for the "perfect friend."  A neighbor used to live on our street, but her husband was convicted of a crime and went to jail, so they lost everything and had to move out.  The woman got a divorce and her whole family was broken up.  Yet, my daught cannot feel any empathy toward her simply because she wound up getting some cats and didn't take care of them, abandoning them on our street when they moved away.  She thinks she is a terrible person and doesn't deserve any empathy.  I asked her about that, and she said, "I guess I'm like momma."  Ugh!

Granted, a lot of this could just be part of being a teenage girl, or a teenager in general.  (I can't compare to raising her older half-brother, because he may himself be BPD)  And she doesn't seem to have a lot of the impulsivity issues or the over-idealization of relationships.  She is, however, always feeling "lonely" and feels like there is "nobody out there" for her, lamenting a few close friends she had who either moved away or abandoned her and moved on to other crowds.

I do my best to confront her behaviors appropriately: ie. I am not mean about it, but I am not passive or permissive, either -I put her back in her place, especially when these attitudes are directed toward me.  I'm not sure what else to do. Ultimately, I know I cannot control this stuff in her.  I can only hope that my strong bond with her and my empathy toward her feelings about her mom's neglect and constant attention-whoring, and toward her shallow and often mean peers, will make/has made a dent in the formation of her character.

Anyway, I'm sorta just ranting.  Though, I'm willing to listen to anybody who has anything to chime in about this.  Again, I realize this is nothing I can control.  But the thought of watching her become her mother (and thereby LOSING her) is harrowing to say the least.

Sometimes when I confront behavior from her that is against me I address it and compare to her mother.  I say it like this, "The way you are acting makes me angry.  I dealt with that for years from your mother, and I'm not going to tolerate it now.  Not from you."  At first, I thought it was maybe okay to make that connection between her behavior and her mom's, since she seems to recognize her mom's behavior very clearly.  But now I am thinking that it may be a mistake to sort of identify her with her mother like that.

Thoughts?

[Turkish]

She recognizes and gets angry with her mother's behaviors: inability to take responsbility for things when confronted, emotional neglect, dumping parental responsibilities on her instead of gettingup (waif), always being wrapped up in something else or someone new guy, controlling behaviors, inability to get along with people and family members, etc.  She says she loves mommy, but mommy is a "drama queen."

Have you told your daughter that it is in no way her responsibility to be a Parent to her own mom (or you or anybody)? It sounds like things are escalating, but it's not too late to validate the anger she feels on being Parentified. It's ok to be angry, as no child should have this burden put upon them. It may cause conflict with her mother, but with support on your side, it may lessen her anger.

This is especially difficult with a daughter. From Understanding The Borderline Mother: "Females have greater difficulty separating their identity from their mothers', primarily because mother and daughter share the same gender."

Your concern about she becoming like her mother is warranted. Have you tried using the validation tools here to talk to your daughter?

[OutOfEgypt]

I haven't looked at those tools in particular (though I will if I can find them), but I always validate her feelings in a way that does not seek to trash her mom.  I tell her, "I know, honey.  I dealt with the same thing.  It made me angry, too.  She did the same thing to me, and I eventually said 'no more'.  I'm sorry.  That is wrong for her to do that.

We've had many conversations about that kind of thing -brought up by her, and always with me validating her feelings.  So, I'm thankful that she "sees" it and that I get the opportunity to validate her feelings.  I think that is important.  I try to not insert myself between her and her mother, but I leave the door open like, "If it gets to be too much, you don't have to deal with it.  you are welcome to stay here, even if it is mommy's week to have you".  I let her know she has a place to go.

Last night she complained about the dual household thing.  She hates it because she needs to pack all her personal little things every week.  I asked her what she wants to do about it, and she said, "Turn 18 and move out."  Hah.  She still has a handful of years until then.  Obviously, I was hoping she would just say that she wants to live with me.  But not this time.

At the moment, her mom is living with her sister.  This means her mom has other people to dump things on, too, like her sister.  But ironically, she actually blames her sister for dumping things on her.  What I am concerned about is when she finally moves out of her sister's house.  If she lives alone, it means it will ALL be dumped on my eldest daughter.  Things will come to a head if that happens.  Otherwise, if my ex moves in with her mom, her mom will become the enabler.  But at least my girls will have someone who will spend time with them!

Sometimes she is really angry with her mother, but she also says, "mommy is sweet".  I see that mommy can ACT sweet, but I don't think she's sweet at all .  I think she likes to be liked, so she knows how to act, but at the end of the day she will basically do what she wants and justify it.  Anyway, in some ways she is nothing like her mother.  Her mother is very "girly" and an attention-whore, and my daughter is the opposite.  Sometimes I wonder if she is down on herself because she ISNT like her mom.  Her mom has the ability to have people eating out of her hand, and in spite of what her daughter sees in her negatively, she probably feels badly about herself and wishes she had that kind of 'power to attract' like her mother.  You and I both know it is fake, but still.

Anyway, I'm grateful that she talks to me about things (including how her mommy can seem to get people to fawn all over her almost effortlessly).  It still just sucks, though.  Her mom is very adept at getting you to turn around and not be angry with her.  She can act "cute" or "sweet", and suddenly its back to "awwwww, momma."

[talithacumi]

OOE,

The two communication tools that would probably be most helpful are SET and DEARMAN. You can find out more about what they are/how to use them on the resources board ... . and/or google them.

SET (Support, Empathy, Truth) is really basic. It's a way of relating to others that reaffirms/demonstrates respect for personal values and boundaries.

It requires you to stop yourself from AUTOMATICALLY reacting to what you're hearing/experiencing as if it's a problem you are being asked/needed/wanted/expected to "fix" somehow, and just listen as if that's ALL you're actually being asked/needed/wanted/expected to do.

You focus on the OTHER person.

You focus on the FEELINGS being expressed/their effect rather than the CAUSE of those feelings.

You acknowledge what you've heard by repeating it back/asking questions until you're told you've got it, rather than (falsely) assuming you "know" how they feel (i.e. "It sounds like you're angry - is that right?" or "When I use words like that, it usually means I'm angry. Is that it? Are you angry?).

You  ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS validate and empathize with HOW the other person feels even if you don't understand/agree with WHY they feel that way - and you keep your OWN opinions about the cause OUT OF IT (i.e. "Man, if someone said/did that to me, I'd be angry, too. It totally sucks for me when I feel that way, especially when it involves someone I really love/care about.".

Finally, you reaffirm/reassert the truth about your relationship to the other person's discomfort/problem. This can be as simple as "I want you to know I love/care about you very much, am always here to listen, and trust that if you need/want me to do more than that, you'll ask." Or it can be more complicated - assertive but gentle - "The law says you have to go to school. You don't have to like it, but you have to go and it's my job, as your parent, to make sure you at least get there and stay there every day. I would like you to acknowledge and respect that. I will let you rant, rave, kick, scream as loud as you want all morning every morning all the way to school without complaint so long as you get ready, get in the car, and allow me to take you there. Deal?"

It takes a lot of practice, but I've found it's a much better, much more mutually supportive way of relating to people than the way I was taught. Here, on the boards, it's a prerequisite for dealing with pwBPD, but I think it - not surprisingly - works just as well - if not BETTER - on people who don't have a full-blown PD.

DEARMAN is a tool for negotiating conflict. With a teenager, you'll probably also want to read up on how THAT works as well. . Using SET, however, will hopefully help keep your DEARMAN moments to a minimum.

- TC

[OutOfEgypt]

TC,

Thank you.  It looks like I already basically do SET, so I feel I'm on the right track -though, focusing on them rather than the possible outcomes can be HARD.  Still, that is basically what I do.  I listen, empathize with how she feels, but if there is something that needs to be addressed, I add that in at the end.  Regarding her feelings about the ex neighbors, I said something like, "Honey, yeah... . I don't understand why they did that to their cats.  They shouldn't have even bought cats if they were just going to abandon them.  Not right!  But aside from that, I do feel for their situation, since they lost their husband and father.  That is pretty awful.  It doesn't make what they did to their animals okay, but it's both possible and okay to feel both feelings simultaneously toward them, ya know?  They are just people who make mistakes and do the wrong thing sometimes, just like any of us.  I wouldn't want to be in their situation."

DEARMAN looks interesting. I will check that out.

[Turkish]

Hi OOE,

The communication tools are summarized in Lesson#3 on the Staying Board Lessons. Have you also looked at the suggested reading on the Parenting and Co-parenting boards? It's a of material to go through, I know... .

Lessons for members who are staying in their relationships