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[Depression = 72% of members]

This has been a good week. No explosions, minor criticisms, and general good vibes. It's so disheartening when that all changes at the drop of a hat.

My brother gave me two bottles of good, expensive whiskey- one for Christmas and one for my birthday. I'm not a huge whiskey drinker, but I do enjoy it on special occasions now and then. Both bottles are 3/4 gone; I've had exactly one drink out of each of them. My uBPDh, whose drinking has become an issue, has been drinking these gifted bottles without my knowledge ( or permission, for that matter!). Several minutes ago, he asked me if he could have some, and I asked him how much was left. He said, "about 1/4 of the bottle". I said, "what? I've had one drink! How is it nearly gone?" He said, "so can I have it or not?" I said, "well it was a gift for me and I've barely had any. Can you drink something else instead?"

Cue mini-rage. He proceeds to scream at me, accusing me of being passive aggressive and "wasting his time" because I'm too busy talking about the fact that the whiskey was a gift. I sat there, saying nothing, and when the cussing started, I said, "please don't cuss at me." He continued, and I left the room. We live in a 1 bedroom apt, so now I'm basically trapped in the bedroom.

Why do the good times always have to be ruined? Thanks for letting me vent. It helps to write it down when I know people who understand will read it.

[Cat21]

This has been a good week. No explosions, minor criticisms, and general good vibes. It's so disheartening when that all changes at the drop of a hat.

My brother gave me two bottles of good, expensive whiskey- one for Christmas and one for my birthday. I'm not a huge whiskey drinker, but I do enjoy it on special occasions now and then. Both bottles are 3/4 gone; I've had exactly one drink out of each of them. My uBPDh, whose drinking has become an issue, has been drinking these gifted bottles without my knowledge ( or permission, for that matter!). Several minutes ago, he asked me if he could have some, and I asked him how much was left. He said, "about 1/4 of the bottle". I said, "what? I've had one drink! How is it nearly gone?" He said, "so can I have it or not?" I said, "well it was a gift for me and I've barely had any. Can you drink something else instead?"

Cue mini-rage. He proceeds to scream at me, accusing me of being passive aggressive and "wasting his time" because I'm too busy talking about the fact that the whiskey was a gift. I sat there, saying nothing, and when the cussing started, I said, "please don't cuss at me." He continued, and I left the room. We live in a 1 bedroom apt, so now I'm basically trapped in the bedroom.

Why do the good times always have to be ruined? Thanks for letting me vent. It helps to write it down when I know people who understand will read it.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

Hang in there.

Hopefully you can find non dysregulated time to work through this.

My recent history with "accountability" issues is not good... so they just go unaddressed. 

Then... . since they are unaddressed... . they will be used as "proof" that the actions are ok... . because I didn't complain.

I didn't complain because it would incite conflict... . I've been trying to reduce conflict... . so things don't get addressed.

At some point... . hit reset and start over... . and do the cycle again.

It ends up being my fault that uBPDw did (fill in the blank)

Very frustrating

This has been a good week. No explosions, minor criticisms, and general good vibes. It's so disheartening when that all changes at the drop of a hat.

My brother gave me two bottles of good, expensive whiskey- one for Christmas and one for my birthday. I'm not a huge whiskey drinker, but I do enjoy it on special occasions now and then. Both bottles are 3/4 gone; I've had exactly one drink out of each of them. My uBPDh, whose drinking has become an issue, has been drinking these gifted bottles without my knowledge ( or permission, for that matter!). Several minutes ago, he asked me if he could have some, and I asked him how much was left. He said, "about 1/4 of the bottle". I said, "what? I've had one drink! How is it nearly gone?" He said, "so can I have it or not?" I said, "well it was a gift for me and I've barely had any. Can you drink something else instead?"

Cue mini-rage. He proceeds to scream at me, accusing me of being passive aggressive and "wasting his time" because I'm too busy talking about the fact that the whiskey was a gift. I sat there, saying nothing, and when the cussing started, I said, "please don't cuss at me." He continued, and I left the room. We live in a 1 bedroom apt, so now I'm basically trapped in the bedroom.

Why do the good times always have to be ruined? Thanks for letting me vent. It helps to write it down when I know people who understand will read it.

[maxsterling]

Well, I can completely relate.  And I do mean completely. 

The truth here is, he's the one who drank it all, so he should know better.  He's blaming you for a problem he caused - believe me, I get this all the time from my GF.  His hand was caught in the cookie jar, he thinks you are playing a game with him to shame him, and he hates it.

Am I reading correctly that you knew before he asked that he had drank the whiskey without permission and the bottles were half gone?  If so, your response was passive aggressive.  And even if you didn't know he had drank 3/4 of the bottles, you asking how much was left meant he assumed you had been paying attention and knew he had been drinking it.  That's what set him off.  He felt you already knew he had been sneaking it, and assumed that you were mad at him for it.  Now he is mad because he assumes you are mad, but rather than directly saying you are mad, you said something else in a passive aggressive fashion and he felt shamed. But don't fault yourself, we all do it.  I certainly do.  With non BPDs, they understand your reaction and alter their behavior.  With a BPD, they look for ways to blame you for your misery, so a passive aggressive statement is enough to set them off.  Unfortunately you can't always watch your words, because they will eventually find something, and if not, invent something.  You can't win.  The only option you have is not engage in his distortion.  Congrats on sticking to your boundary of not tolerating cursing.  I need to do better at that, myself.

Perhaps a better response would have been, "Yeah, that whiskey does look good.  But those bottles were special gifts, and I would rather save them for a special occasion.  Perhaps some XYZ drink for now, and sometime later we can share a drink of whiskey together?" 

[ziniztar]

I hear you. I had a sad weekend last week (my own issues) and he was a super wonderful boyfriend. It even felt normal for a while. At 22:30, ready to fall asleep, 15 minutes after he said 'I love you' and kissed me on the forehead comforting me... He starting raging. It was short but it was there, right there when I didn't need it and felt weak myself.

In the end we calmed down... but it hurt a lot. I think "too good" equals "must be wrong" or "will loose soon", therefore "must push away". I think it's a given.

[formflier]

Interesting...  

I get accused by uBPDw of being passive aggressive all the time.

I believe I am one of the most direct... . unambiguous people around.

There was even a facebook posting that she put up that me and another guy were cooking up a plot to be passive aggressive toward her... . and do... . something.  That part wasn't really clear.

So... . at the moment I can't give you an example of what she says is PA about me... . she also can't give me one when I ask (i've quit asking)... . but somehow she knows... .

Well, I can completely relate.  And I do mean completely. 

The truth here is, he's the one who drank it all, so he should know better.  He's blaming you for a problem he caused - believe me, I get this all the time from my GF.  His hand was caught in the cookie jar, he thinks you are playing a game with him to shame him, and he hates it.

Am I reading correctly that you knew before he asked that he had drank the whiskey without permission and the bottles were half gone?  If so, your response was passive aggressive.  And even if you didn't know he had drank 3/4 of the bottles, you asking how much was left meant he assumed you had been paying attention and knew he had been drinking it.  That's what set him off.  He felt you already knew he had been sneaking it, and assumed that you were mad at him for it.  Now he is mad because he assumes you are mad, but rather than directly saying you are mad, you said something else in a passive aggressive fashion and he felt shamed. But don't fault yourself, we all do it.  I certainly do.  With non BPDs, they understand your reaction and alter their behavior.  With a BPD, they look for ways to blame you for your misery, so a passive aggressive statement is enough to set them off.  Unfortunately you can't always watch your words, because they will eventually find something, and if not, invent something.  You can't win.  The only option you have is not engage in his distortion.  Congrats on sticking to your boundary of not tolerating cursing.  I need to do better at that, myself.

Perhaps a better response would have been, "Yeah, that whiskey does look good.  But those bottles were special gifts, and I would rather save them for a special occasion.  Perhaps some XYZ drink for now, and sometime later we can share a drink of whiskey together?" 

[Cat21]

Thanks for the feedback. In retrospect, I can see how my reaction could have been construed as passive aggressive, although I honestly didn't know the amount of whiskey that was left in that particular bottle. I will try to think more carefully about a better response in the future. After I left the room, I gave it about 30 minutes, then went back out to the living room and he was fine. He said, "We need to talk about what just happened." I said, "If you have something you'd like to say, I'm happy to listen", but he ended up saying nothing.

This brings me to another question- do pwBPD typically like to discuss altercations? I know that many nons say their BPD partners give them the silent treatment. My husband rarely does that. Sometimes he'll wait for me to "be the first one" to start talking, but he almost always wants to discuss our arguements (i.e., his dysregulations.) During these discussions, it seems like his objective is to "make me understand" (his words) why he responded the way he did. Is this a way of controlling the situation?

[InSearchofMe]

My BPDh wants to 'discuss' these things ad infinitum.  I am working on not groaning inside and not rolling my eyes when he says, 'we need to talk'.  Like your husband, mine says we need to talk but seems to want me to start the conversation.  Unlike your husband, mine will start the conversation.  And then he won't stop talking.  It seems to me it's not a discussion he wants but a receptacle for his internal monologue.  From my side, it looks like the only way he can deal with all of his emotions is by doing what I call 'the verbal vomit.'

Fortunately, I can say that things are improving in my home.  He is receiving good treatment and I am working on understanding him and using the tools I am learning about here.  So these 'discussions' are getting shorter and less frequent.

[formflier]

Interesting... .

My advice is to say that you understand his reasoning... . but do not agree (assuming you don't)

I will also say that this may or may not work wit a pwBPD.

I only say this... . because this is a big deal for me.  If people disagree with me... . but I am convinced they understand my argument (understanding and agreeing being different)... . then I'm fine with dropping it.

My uBPDw seems to distort what I say... . so she does not understand my argument... . nor does she agree with her misunderstanding... . and then usually she will announce how I really feel with it... . and agree with that.  Only I don't agree with her assessment of my feelings.

Wow... . that's tortuous to write about... . imagine living that... .

Unfortunately... . many of us here don't have to imagine... .

Thanks for the feedback. In retrospect, I can see how my reaction could have been construed as passive aggressive, although I honestly didn't know the amount of whiskey that was left in that particular bottle. I will try to think more carefully about a better response in the future. After I left the room, I gave it about 30 minutes, then went back out to the living room and he was fine. He said, "We need to talk about what just happened." I said, "If you have something you'd like to say, I'm happy to listen", but he ended up saying nothing.

This brings me to another question- do pwBPD typically like to discuss altercations? I know that many nons say their BPD partners give them the silent treatment. My husband rarely does that. Sometimes he'll wait for me to "be the first one" to start talking, but he almost always wants to discuss our arguements (i.e., his dysregulations.) During these discussions, it seems like his objective is to "make me understand" (his words) why he responded the way he did. Is this a way of controlling the situation?

[formflier]

Is he hateful when he is going on and on?  Or is it just bothersome.

I know this is not exactly same thing... . but I like to think out loud.  That way when problem solving... . someone can point out the error... . or the solution... . discussion done... and off we go.

However... . many people that don't like to do it that way say I talk too much.

Back in the day uBPDw and I could problem solve well together... . but in last several years... . I talk... . she repeats back some fantasy of what I said and thought... . or... . she just interrupts me.

We have not solved much in a long time.

My BPDh wants to 'discuss' these things ad infinitum.  I am working on not groaning inside and not rolling my eyes when he says, 'we need to talk'.  Like your husband, mine says we need to talk but seems to want me to start the conversation.  Unlike your husband, mine will start the conversation.  And then he won't stop talking.  It seems to me it's not a discussion he wants but a receptacle for his internal monologue.  From my side, it looks like the only way he can deal with all of his emotions is by doing what I call 'the verbal vomit.'

Fortunately, I can say that things are improving in my home.  He is receiving good treatment and I am working on understanding him and using the tools I am learning about here.  So these 'discussions' are getting shorter and less frequent.

[ydrys017]

My uBPDw prefers to rehash, which typically starts the negative spiral - again.  I typically avoid rehash at all cost to prevent another conflict.  I'm now at a point where I realize that nothing seems to work, so I'm just trying to learn how to stop making it worse, understand SET and Validation, and implement as early as possible - whether it's the initial spiral or a rehash spiral.

This brings me to another question- do pwBPD typically like to discuss altercations? I know that many nons say their BPD partners give them the silent treatment. My husband rarely does that. Sometimes he'll wait for me to "be the first one" to start talking, but he almost always wants to discuss our arguements (i.e., his dysregulations.) During these discussions, it seems like his objective is to "make me understand" (his words) why he responded the way he did. Is this a way of controlling the situation?

[maxsterling]

GF will say things are unresolved, that she is mad, etc.  And you know what, that's true, it is unresolved!  I'm willing to re-discuss the issue, but I am not ready for continued verbal abuse.  So it's usually me who tries to avoid future discussions, not because I don't want a resolution, but because she simply is not capable of discussing things calmly, and I know if the subject is discussed again, the same thing will happen.   

[Cat21]

Yes, I go through the same thing! I used to think it was very important that we discuss big fights the next day. Now, I've come it realize that it doesn't matter because he will always see things in a distorted reality. It's impossible for him to accept the fact that I don't always agree with him, but do understand him. To him, they are one in the same.

Interesting... .

My advice is to say that you understand his reasoning... . but do not agree (assuming you don't)

I will also say that this may or may not work wit a pwBPD.

I only say this... . because this is a big deal for me.  If people disagree with me... . but I am convinced they understand my argument (understanding and agreeing being different)... . then I'm fine with dropping it.

My uBPDw seems to distort what I say... . so she does not understand my argument... . nor does she agree with her misunderstanding... . and then usually she will announce how I really feel with it... . and agree with that.  Only I don't agree with her assessment of my feelings.

Wow... . that's tortuous to write about... . imagine living that... .

Unfortunately... . many of us here don't have to imagine... .

Thanks for the feedback. In retrospect, I can see how my reaction could have been construed as passive aggressive, although I honestly didn't know the amount of whiskey that was left in that particular bottle. I will try to think more carefully about a better response in the future. After I left the room, I gave it about 30 minutes, then went back out to the living room and he was fine. He said, "We need to talk about what just happened." I said, "If you have something you'd like to say, I'm happy to listen", but he ended up saying nothing.

This brings me to another question- do pwBPD typically like to discuss altercations? I know that many nons say their BPD partners give them the silent treatment. My husband rarely does that. Sometimes he'll wait for me to "be the first one" to start talking, but he almost always wants to discuss our arguements (i.e., his dysregulations.) During these discussions, it seems like his objective is to "make me understand" (his words) why he responded the way he did. Is this a way of controlling the situation?

[ziniztar]

... he almost always wants to discuss our arguements (i.e., his dysregulations.) During these discussions, it seems like his objective is to "make me understand" (his words) why he responded the way he did. Is this a way of controlling the situation?

Maybe, yes. Controlling you, also. Mostly: clearing his head from the fact that he might have been wrong. From what I understand, pwBPD simply cannot deal with the fact that they make mistakes. In a combination of extremely low self image and fear of abandonment, it cannot be possible that they also played a role in it. It must be the other person, as admitting their own responsibility and role would inflict too much inner pain, from inner shame and fear of you leaving them because of it.

To me, it always helps to understand where behaviour comes from, as it allows you to step away from the situation and ask the right questions. You say you want to change your reaction the next time and I think that's a good atitude. If you look at your right --> "before you can make anything better, you must stop making it worse". Changing your response will do that.

Have you read Staying 101 (it's a topic on the Staying Board). It helps to explain how the venting from your pwBPD works, where it comes from, and what you should do to not get sucked into it. As you mentioned already: when you leave the room and come back after a while, he has calmed down. That's a start  .

[Cat21]

Yes, I have. Thank you for the feedback. I do have another question; I'm sure I've read about this, but it's hard to remember everything! When my uBPDh is in a bad mood and is acting like a jerk, I know not to take it personally. In those cases, if we are both at home, I usually leave the room or the apartment and go do something by myself. But, if we are together (like today, for instance; spent a lot of time in the car and with friends out of town); what are some things I can say/do to keep myself from getting sucked into an argument? I tried validating him, but I wasn't sure what I should even validate! I didn't really respond when he made jabs about my cooking and a few other pompous comments. He's been in crappy mood for a few days now.

... he almost always wants to discuss our arguements (i.e., his dysregulations.) During these discussions, it seems like his objective is to "make me understand" (his words) why he responded the way he did. Is this a way of controlling the situation?

Have you read Staying 101 (it's a topic on the Staying Board). It helps to explain how the venting from your pwBPD works, where it comes from, and what you should do to not get sucked into it. As you mentioned already: when you leave the room and come back after a while, he has calmed down. That's a start  .