a note on silent treatment

[goldylamont]

almost forgot the link. don't forget to laugh today! 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=wyHSo2Jd-58

[Jonie]

Hmm, that’s quite a story, GL…

I’m familiar with lying too, but from another persective. My X was always changing the truth to make himself look better or more important, or to prove a point. I guess that’s one of the reasons why he’s afraid to reconnect with me and keeps away, because he knows I can see what’s hidden behind his mask. Even though he knows I’m not judgemental about this at all, he just can’t bear to know I’ve seen his weak spots, his actual self, the self he feels ashamed of. I think it’s easier for him to have someone who is impressed by his stories and who goes along with his fabrications.

GL, I feel that it’s even more difficult to break up if you know that your partner is being foul because he is hurt, vulnerable, ashamed etc but would love to do things right (as I think is the case with my X), than when your partner is deliberately manipulative and and intends to hurt you (as with you). How do you feel about that? Or is it more difficult to come to terms with yourself, on why you stayed in the relationship that long?

- typed ‘relation___’ there 

[Jonie]

ah, that turned up blocked: Meant to say I made a typing error typing a -t at the end in 'relationship' 

[goldylamont]

Hmm, that’s quite a story, GL…

I’m familiar with lying too, but from another persective. My X was always changing the truth to make himself look better or more important, or to prove a point. I guess that’s one of the reasons why he’s afraid to reconnect with me and keeps away, because he knows I can see what’s hidden behind his mask. Even though he knows I’m not judgemental about this at all, he just can’t bear to know I’ve seen his weak spots, his actual self, the self he feels ashamed of. I think it’s easier for him to have someone who is impressed by his stories and who goes along with his fabrications.

GL, I feel that it’s even more difficult to break up if you know that your partner is being foul because he is hurt, vulnerable, ashamed etc but would love to do things right (as I think is the case with my X), than when your partner is deliberately manipulative and and intends to hurt you (as with you). How do you feel about that? Or is it more difficult to come to terms with yourself, on why you stayed in the relationship that long?

- typed ‘relation’ there 

, relationshi+, i get it 

i can't really speak on how hard it is to breakup knowing your ex is deliberately manipulative--i broke up with my ex before experiencing either of the above stories. 4 yrs together and both of the above occurred within the last 6 weeks of us living together. she had used these 'techniques' in the months previous to our breakup but i was unaware i was being played at the time. when i broke up with her i just felt, kind of like a quiet intuition telling me that we needed to be separate. she had grown so paranoid that i was cheating and consistently disrespectful and during a phone convo where she was being dismissive i just told her i didn't want to do this anymore. it wasn't planned at all, no yelling or anything, just happened in the moment. i'm forever grateful for this moment though as i feel at least i ended things on my terms rather than waiting for her to find a replacement first, *then* tell me that she was through. i'm pretty sure that's what would have happened if i hadn't acted first.

so i never experienced any guilt about staying too long. i see the way she's ended 2 r/s since we broke up and can see that i actually made a hard decision before other men could. i fared better in this regard. but i will say that after 'breaking up' with her, the couple of months afterward were the toughest in my life. i remember us being on the couch holding each other and crying saying that we didn't want things to end but that we both knew it was best. we swore to stay strong, respectful and to remain friends. this is status quo for me, i'm friendly with all my other exes except for her. i had the idea that we had to separate, but i definitely wanted to reconcile at a later date after we had both done some growing on our own. so, to go from holding each other like this, to two weeks later she's sleeping with some other guy (and lying about it), then two weeks later announcing to the world that she's in love--it was pretty crippling. we were still living together and sleeping in the same bed, she hadn't even found a new place yet. i have a lot of friends, we had at least 50 shared friends on FB and unbeknownst to me she changes her r/s status to being in a r/s with some new guy. most of my friends didn't even know we had broken up yet since it had only been a month (half of which was spent with us trying to reconcile). it was terrible, i was getting phone calls and emails asking if it was a joke. so i found out from friends instead of the woman i was sleeping next to. the whole thing was done to embarrass and punish me. i remember her showing off gifts she got from her new bf and then she'd faun over them and leave it on our bed stand for me to see all day. laughing and giggling while she read sex horoscopes for the two of them while i read in bed. his constant, constant texting back and forth. shortly thereafter she started sleeping on the couch.

so for me there was no transitory period where i realized she was untrustworthy before breaking up. i just had an underlying sense that things weren't right. at the same time i didn't have to deal with a lot of post-breakup guilt like others--there were never any threats of suicide, guilt trips, etc. in fact, the reason i think we lasted so long was b/c in regards to 'power' in the r/s i feel we were pretty even most of the time. i wasn't a needy codependant like many of her other bfs (which i feel made me more attractive/stable in some ways, but triggered her abandonment fears to a higher degree). yet at the same time she was very high functioning, really loyal for the majority of the r/s. my friends loved her, we were quite the item. my breaking up with her (this was the second and last time) i think triggered her big time, so it was only then that i saw how nasty things could get. because we lived together there was just no where to go.

to answer your question about how difficult it was breaking up. well, the actual act of doing it, me saying the words... . oddly this happened almost in a moment of peace. but the ensuing 2 months thereafter were the darkest i had ever experienced. nothing easy about it at all. perhaps though i can see your point that looking back there were more obvious character flaws there. i can see that, yes. but the abrupt nature of me finding this out actually created chaos, confusion for me that would take years to work through  don't cry for me love though, i'm good now!   and i must apologize if i have hijacked this thread. i feel i needed to go back to this dark place again and recapitulate. this week i'm quitting smoking and also these boards for a while to 'cleanse', so all this writing is kind of a guilty pleasure extinction burst so i can get it all out. thank you for listening though 

[Louise7777]

Jonie, Im sorry for what you are going through. Once I was in a brief r/s with a guy I now see as uNPD. I broke up with him and he turned all our common acquaintances against me. All. Every single one. They were not my friends, but stil... . Neither his friends! I believed they had their own issues. Some were just mean and joined him on bashing me. Im guessing either your friends have issues or they are afraid of him (but that doesnt justify anything anyway). You should be glad you see their true colours, no matter how hurtful it is right now.

Goldylamont, thanks for the link, I hadnt watched that episode. I see so many deal-breakers in my life nowadays, I believe thats healthy, I didnt even see red flags some time ago... . Our uPDs really love mind games, dont they? So much effort to control people! Wouldnt it be easier to let go and enjoy life?

Blonderunner, you were actually very smart. It took me a long time to realize what was going on, but the result is now I can see a red flag 10 miles away. 

[BlondeRunner]

Blonderunner, you were actually very smart. It took me a long time to realize what was going on, but the result is now I can see a red flag 10 miles away. 

Hi Louise, to be honest I’m not 100% sure that refusing to acknowledge his behaviour was particularly smart move on my part – it primarily happened because I have a strong stubborn streak and a very low tolerance for BS (qualities that work well in some situations but less so in others... . ).

You may have been smarter by calling your pwBPD out on their behaviour, at least you got to tell him that you were no fool and knew exactly what his game was so he snapped out of it - my dBPDexbf has kept this up for a month solid now! I sometimes wonder if he believes his silence has kept me locked in limbo, barely eating, washing or sleeping? It totally hasn’t, by the way! 

[Louise7777]

BlondeRunner, my xSO isnt BPD, he is uPAPD. In many ways, its easier to deal than a BPD or NPD. 

I read somewhere that when they give the ST, actually THEY are the ones obsessed about us: they keep thinking about us and expecting some reaction. I believe thats true, they dont expect to end the r/s, they just want to "break our backbone" and put us into submission mode.

With my xSO uPAPD, he snapped out of it for a while, but its such a rooted behaviour that Im sure at some point he will do it again to me (he continues using it with others). He is open enough to admit using it, but he doesnt admit using it for punishment: he says he´s hurt so he needs "time away". My answer was "come on, buddy, dont u know by now who u talk to? U aint SuperNanny to punish people". 

But thats easy for me, cause he doesnt rage, as all my uBPD relatives do. 

[BlondeRunner]

BlondeRunner, my xSO isnt BPD, he is uPAPD. In many ways, its easier to deal than a BPD or NPD. 

Aha – I’ll swap my dBPDexbf for your uPAPD!

I read somewhere that when they give the ST, actually THEY are the ones obsessed about us: they keep thinking about us and expecting some reaction. I believe thats true, they dont expect to end the r/s, they just want to "break our backbone" and put us into submission mode.

I must say it’s quite an exercise in mental strength from both sides! It’s been a month though, buddy – I can tell ya I won’t be reacting!

Yes, JackBlacknBlue expressed a similar opinion above suggesting that it’s a potential way of keeping the door open for them to come back to someone who was “waiting”. I must admit I have found it all totally bizarre! I have dated some jerks in my time but this behaviour is off the scale!

[Banshee]

I read somewhere that when they give the ST, actually THEY are the ones obsessed about us: they keep thinking about us and expecting some reaction. I believe thats true, they don't expect to end the r/s, they just want to "break our backbone" and put us into submission mode.

So I assume the silent treatment and not initiating any contact is different? Anytime I would break no contact he would eventually answer me, but it was no more than three word responses. NEVER initiated contact but yet would vaguely answer me. Not sure would that is called but I do know I will never break no contact again.

[Louise7777]

Banshee, in my understanding, ST and NC are completely different things. When a non decides for NC (Im NC/VLC with my uPD relatives) its because we cant take it anymore. We cant take the abuse, disrespect, rages, etc. NC is not supposed to get a reaction from them, its supposed to make US stable and peaceful.

On the other hand, ST is a tool to make people REACT and SUBMIT to the uPD wishes. They use it in order to keep us into submission mode, to put us in "our place" so we provide them with whatever they want. Its a punishment. And they resume contact as if nothing happened, cause our period of grounding is over. So they allow us to be in touch with the royal highness again. 

[Jonie]

Hi All

I've not been able to read all your posts yet - hopefully I have some time later today, but for the time being: I started this thread to question the idea that ST is always about punishment. That may be true in some cases, but in others it's more because they are emotionally blocked, stuck in their own overwhelming feelings (shame, guilt, anger, jealousy,... . ) and unable to realise how this affecting us.

[Banshee]

 Louise7777,

Banshee, in my understanding, ST and NC are completely different things. When a non decides for NC (Im NC/VLC with my uPD relatives) its because we cant take it anymore. We cant take the abuse, disrespect, rages, etc. NC is not supposed to get a reaction from them, its supposed to make US stable and peaceful.

On the other hand, ST is a tool to make people REACT and SUBMIT to the uPD wishes. They use it in order to keep us into submission mode, to put us in "our place" so we provide them with whatever they want. Its a punishment. And they resume contact as if nothing happened, cause our period of grounding is over. So they allow us to be in touch with the royal highness again.  grin

QUOTE

So I assume the silent treatment and not initiating any contact is different? Anytime I would break no contact he would eventually answer me, but it was no more than three word responses. NEVER initiated contact but yet would vaguely answer me. Not sure would that is called but I do know I will never break no contact again.

Ugh so what is it called that my ex is doing? I really hate this mess, it's like if I could only understand this little thing I will be ok enough to move on, but then there is another question where I say again if I knew the answer to this last question I'll be ok.It's like a puzzle where you find and put a puzzle piece in and two come up missing!

[goldylamont]

Louise7777,

Banshee, in my understanding, ST and NC are completely different things. When a non decides for NC (Im NC/VLC with my uPD relatives) its because we cant take it anymore. We cant take the abuse, disrespect, rages, etc. NC is not supposed to get a reaction from them, its supposed to make US stable and peaceful.

On the other hand, ST is a tool to make people REACT and SUBMIT to the uPD wishes. They use it in order to keep us into submission mode, to put us in "our place" so we provide them with whatever they want. Its a punishment. And they resume contact as if nothing happened, cause our period of grounding is over. So they allow us to be in touch with the royal highness again.  grin

QUOTE

So I assume the silent treatment and not initiating any contact is different? Anytime I would break no contact he would eventually answer me, but it was no more than three word responses. NEVER initiated contact but yet would vaguely answer me. Not sure would that is called but I do know I will never break no contact again.

Ugh so what is it called that my ex is doing? I really hate this mess, it's like if I could only understand this little thing I will be ok enough to move on, but then there is another question where I say again if I knew the answer to this last question I'll be ok.It's like a puzzle where you find and put a puzzle piece in and two come up missing!

Banshee, since this is your ex and you are broken up, i don't think this person really has any responsibility to keep in contact. He may be doing his own thing. However, at the end of the day I don't think this should feel like a puzzle piece anymore. I shared my experience above to show others that, yes, grown people are fully aware of when they are messing with you. passive aggressiveness and silent treatment suck because the person doing it wants to throw you off the trail or make you seem like you are the one going crazy. You feel confused right now? Not sure about what he's thinking or why he's acting this way? **Of course you feel this way--you were meant to feel this way because you're being punished. It seems like you know this already, and that now you are questioning whether you are right--so basically your wondering whether you can trust your gut instincts. trust me, just trust your gut instincts on this one. if interacting (or lack thereof) with someone makes you feel terrible then just trust the terrible feeling you have. i know for myself because i proved it to myself that my ex was playing games on purpose. you may have missed this opportunity to expose them to the degree you seek, but if you choose to stay on the fence about this in some effort to try and give your ex some credibility then honestly you're probably just giving into his game playing. mission accomplished for him. the reason these games work is because the victims go through life unable to believe the person is actually capable of doing it. they are. trust me. but most of all, trust how you already feel and don't feel guilty about it.

put another way, i think a lot of people have thoughts like "i know my ex or SO is bad... . but they can't be **that** bad, right?" um, yes, they can. if you feel that bad then yes. no need to make excuses for them.

[Narellan]

Thankyou Goldylamont for the first time ever I'm moving past the need for explanations and justifications of his behaviour. I'm done trying to explain him. It's not my job. I am starting to see his bahaviour and the real person he is. Regardless of whether he has BPD or not, he has enough awareness to know he is hurting me... . Ongoing and continually. I took myself out of the game a while back but now I'm taking my empathy away. I'm not giving any more of my emotions to this man. ( or my ex best friend)

I feel like I've turned a corner now. Well into detachment when I don't feel the need to excuse him due to BPD. Nothing left to feel. No confusion, anger, love, frustration. Just nothing.

But it's taken many months to get here.

[goldylamont]

Thankyou Goldylamont for the first time ever I'm moving past the need for explanations and justifications of his behaviour. I'm done trying to explain him. It's not my job. I am starting to see his bahaviour and the real person he is. Regardless of whether he has BPD or not, he has enough awareness to know he is hurting me... . Ongoing and continually. I took myself out of the game a while back but now I'm taking my empathy away. I'm not giving any more of my emotions to this man. ( or my ex best friend)

I feel like I've turned a corner now. Well into detachment when I don't feel the need to excuse him due to BPD. Nothing left to feel. No confusion, anger, love, frustration. Just nothing.

But it's taken many months to get here.

thank you Narellen for saying this. i write my posts and sometimes i worry that they may come across as too forward. and i never mean to bash or cast people with mental disorders in an all-bad light. i just feel it's important to know and accept the truth, and the way to get to the truth is to trust our instincts and verify them over time.

Narellen i love your attitude of removing yourself completely from the situation--this has always been a goal of mine. Yes, i recognize my ex did some pretty narc-y type things to me on purpose while seeming to enjoy herself. And i call her out on this. But this doesn't mean that i haven't been and don't continue my work of detaching and ultimately forgiving. Realizing your ex actually is "that bad" doesn't stop you on the path to forgiveness. It brings up anger and sadness, sometimes hate, but in the end i feel it actually speeds up your recovery to accept the totality of the bad--it speeds things up because you are no longer confused as to what you have to forgive. no longer doubting yourself and your decisions to leave. like i said in a previous post somewhere, my mindset regarding my ex is "well bless her stupid little heart"    only took a couple years to get here.

p.s. thank you all for tolerating my pity-party in the previous posts, , it was cleansing in a way

[hellokitty4]

I did the same Jonie. I watched what he was posting... . He was still posting photos of us together, kissing and cuddling several weeks after we had split. He was posting phrases I thought were meant for me. So one day I just deactivated my account. All the posting of me stopped. ( I saw through a mutual friends FB) he knew he no longer had my interest or attention so it all stopped. Then after a few weeks he unfriended my deactivated account , I still gave no response. And nothing further has been posted about me.

Yes, those phrases or quotes they post or like are meant for one person, YOU. My BPD friend does this all the time. The movies she wants to see via Flixster is her way of telling me that she wants me to see it with her.  I don't react or ask her to see it with me.  She needs to put in the effort. Why would I put myself in a position where she can give another excuse not to go.  It also includes songs she listens to in Pandora, those are directed at me. I mean really, who cares what she's listening to.  There is a Pandora option not to publish the songs and I know she doesn't publish all the songs she listens to. Checking in anywhere she goes especailly when I call or text and she doesn't respond... . she cannot tell me she hasn't told her other friends where she is.  I know she doesn't tell me and I find out through FB.  Passive way of communicating but that's how BPDs are. Another passive act is trying to do things with my other close friends... . sort of one degree of separation.  She won't do anything with me but will seek out my friends... . in her mind, it's a way of being close to me.  I know all the tricks... . I just observe, I let her come to me. If I have to put up with her behavior, she needs to put all the effort.  I got tired of asking to do the usual things we used to do. I am still bothered with periods of silent treatment but I never ever let her know or show it.  I keep myself busy because I know once that cycle is over, she acts like it was nothing. When they realize that the ST is not working, they usually stop.  Ignore the ST and go about how you usually treat her.

I asked her recently if she was upset about something I did or didn't do because she was giving me the cold shoulder... . she said "this is just the way I am."  Never a straight answer.  I took her word for it and went about doing things I usually do.  She slowly [2 weeks] snapped out of the ST when she realized I just went about my business.

I know there's another ST in the very near future but I know what to do.  It's getting old really!