When does the discussion stop and JADE start

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

I'm beginning to regret the cottage up north... . 3 hours in the car with no escape... .

So many of our 'discussions' are repeats... . my uBPDw doesn't like what I think, so she begins the conversation asking me to explain it, yet again. 

From the outside, it all probably seems normal, but when I'm answering the same question for the 1000th time, I start to slip into JADE. 

These are issues we've discussed, she lies at the start and says she doesn't understand my position when in fact she just doesn't like it (after all if I understood her point of view of course I would agree with it).

So we've still got 2 hours in the car, I've said we've discussed it, we know where each other stands lets just agree to disagree but she won't let it drop... .

Do I just clam up and go to my internal happy-place? 

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[waverider]

What would happen if you stopped the car or turned around? I know, the shy would fall in. But how many times can the sky fall in before she gets the message?

If its driving you nuts it needs a boundary not a discussion, if you clam up does it fix the problem for you? Probably not, you probably start seething and building resentment. If so its not an effective boundary enforcement.

[ydrys017]

Sorry... .   what is JADE?

[waverider]

Sorry... .   what is JADE?

Justify, Argue, Defend & Explain.

You effectively start backpeddling, feel manipulated. Hate yourself for being pushed, but can't seem to stop it. Its a feeling of insecurity, like a school kid in front of the headmaster, as your excuses get weaker. Often the subject subtly shifts onto something else.

[ydrys017]

Sorry... .   what is JADE?

Justify, Argue, Defend & Explain.

You effectively start backpeddling, feel manipulated. Hate yourself for being pushed, but can't seem to stop it. Its a feeling of insecurity, like a school kid in front of the headmaster, as your excuses get weaker. Often the subject subtly shifts onto something else.

Oh!  Sigh... .   that is me to a 'T'. 

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

Often the subject subtly shifts onto something else.

Right, so do you try and determine where this shift takes place or shut it down way short of that point?

With a relationship with an adult, you have to be able to converse... . I know pwBPD aren't emotionally an adult but I'm trying to find that median point... .

Ron

[maxsterling]

Soo hard to avoid JADE sometimes.  Often they badger you to justify or explain yourself - you are trapped into it.  It's easy to fall into that trap and create some kind of answer to their absurd scenario.  So, to not JADE often means not answering or sidestepping their direct question, and then they rage because you are silent.  And other times you are physically trapped - like in a car.  Kinda hard to get away in that instance. 

I don't know what the solution is here, but sometimes the pwBPD does deserve an explanation.  The problem lies when the explanation does not stop their badgering, and you backpedal and try and explain again and again, with more and more frustration in your voice with each explanation.  My feeling is if you think they need or are owed an explanation, explain once, then subsequent times tell them you already explained that.  And if you think the accusation is absurd, tell them you won't respond, or just not respond.  The problem is, the JADE already starts the moment they are on your case about something, and you have to recognize it and put an end to it.  By the time they are on your case, there is no chance for "discussion". 

Wish I could offer advice on what to do in the car, because I am often stuck there.  She says she hates when I bring up stuff while we are driving, yet, she does this ALL THE TIME, and I wind up with her dysregulating and trying to open the car door while we are driving. 

I remember when we first met, she told me a story about why she has never been to southern California.  She said she was on her way there once with a boyfriend, and they got into an argument at the airport or on the plane.  He then said, "I don't want you to meet my mother" and bought her a plane ticket back home!  It took me another few months before that story and his actions made sense to me.  He was enforcing a boundary.  That man was stronger and smarter than me, for sure.

[waverider]

I remember when we first met, she told me a story about why she has never been to southern California.  She said she was on her way there once with a boyfriend, and they got into an argument at the airport or on the plane.  He then said, "I don't want you to meet my mother" and bought her a plane ticket back home!  It took me another few months before that story and his actions made sense to me.  He was enforcing a boundary.  That man was stronger and smarter than me, for sure.

Thats a good example of the extremes you may have to go through to effectively enforce a boundary at times.

Many times I have used the "I have explained it clearly already, I am not going to keep going over it"... progressing through to" if you keep rephrasing the same question over and over I will find somewhere else to be for the rest of the day while you think about it"... . Then done it.

They are not as stupid as they sound. They understood your explanation, its just not what they wanted, so they want to trick you into skewing it onto something they can more easily counter. before you know it you are on the loosing end of a completely unrelated subject.

You are caught trying to either convince them or at least agree to disagree, but they dont do agree to disagree.

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

The problem is, the JADE already starts the moment they are on your case about something, and you have to recognize it and put an end to it.  By the time they are on your case, there is no chance for "discussion".  

I can certainly recognize where it's going, but when she starts out she's not screaming.  She may even begin with something slightly new, but it's still clear where the conversation is heading... . Before I knew about BPD I'd tell her passing the Hooters billboard isn't something new, just an excuse to start the same argument... . So the next trip when we pass the billboard she may bring up something slightly different (Wasn't there some lawsuit against Hooters... . )

I guess I just feel like a jerk if I shut her down immediately and say I'm not going to have the Hooters argument, but I know it will only take a few minutes to segway into the same ol same ol.

The High Conflict Couple helped a bit... . we've only worked through chapter 3 so this last trip wasn't as bad.  However after trying to separate out her feelings from her judgements and simply describing what happened she wasn't satisfied (but I still feel the same... . )

Hopefully the later chapters in the book will help her tie her feelings to her thought process.

They are not as stupid as they sound. They understood your explanation, its just not what they wanted, so they want to trick you into skewing it onto something they can more easily counter. before you know it you are on the loosing end of a completely unrelated subject.

Again, before I knew about BPD I would complain she's asking me for the 1000th time, not because she doesn't understand, but because I haven't given her the response she knows I'm thinking.  So if she just asks it the right way then of course she'll finally get the "correct" answer.

You are caught trying to either convince them or at least agree to disagree, but they don't do agree to disagree.

Ain't that the truth... . :'(