Daughters saga in residential treatment...

[raytamtay3]

Received a call from the RTC CM saying that DD is still continuing to run at night with the boys and some girls. One of the boys she obviously "hooked up with" as he now got what he wanted and wants nothing to do with her. Or so rumor has it. And once again she is physically fighting with a girl from her house and she has been moved to the house where the first girl she had problems with, and now has formed an alliance with, resides. The probation officer is due out tomorrow. I'm sitting back and letting the cards fall where they may. Although I did inform the CM that this running cannot continue and I would like to request a transfer to a secured facility if it continues. I said at this point I'm concerned about pregnancy which that's all I fricken' need!

Once again the CM told me she's never met anyone quite like DD. Said she is the toughen ones she's encountered. That says a lot! She also reiterated how it's really ashame because DD actually has parents who care... .

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[raytamtay3]

Just got off the phone with the district CM's supervisor who informed me that they are well aware of all of the issues going on over at the RTC. She's been in contact with upper management over there and a request for a transfer has been made. For now on I'm going with my instincts. A mother's intution is almost never wrong. My DD has major issues. But I know her better than anyone.

[raytamtay3]

Just got off the phone with the district CM's supervisor who informed me that they are well aware of all of the issues going on over at the RTC. She's been in contact with upper management over there and a request for a transfer has been made. For now on I'm going with my instincts. A mother's intution is almost never wrong. My DD has major issues. But I know her better than anyone.

PS: The District CM has 5 other cases in there that she is having removed as well.

[raytamtay3]

Bad day. Which is why this is the third posting. I received a call from my ex that DD's school called him today asking if he was attending 8th grade graduation for DD. This is the first we've heard of this. He was told that due to DD's behaviour at school, she is not allowed to walk down the aisle! How heartbreaking. This is really doing to take a hit to DD's already deflated self esteem. I realize that her behaviour contributed to this. But if she passed, shouldn't she be allowed to at least walk down the aisle? The decision was made and I cannot change it. And I cannot even go to the ceromony tomorrow as I just learned of this 1 hour ago, have to take off from work on Friday to take my dad to the hospital for a procedure, and it starts at 10 am and is over an hour away. I'm back to feeling overly anxious and stressed out.  :'(

I requested visitation be resumed and at least that has now been reinstated. Because obviously it had no affect on DD's behaviour.

It will take about a month to transfer DD to another RTC I was told.

[tristesse]

oh raytamtay I feel your pain. I'm so sorry that you are going through this today, it breaks my heart to hear these stories. I hate that our children suffer so much and then we suffer in turn. Im sure your dd is good girl, but she sounds like is deeply troubled, and not letting her walk will no doubt be a tremendous blow. Im glad you are being proactive and have asked for a transfer. In the meantime, try not to stress too much and take care of yourself. Hang in there, and know you have friends here.

[pessim-optimist]

I am so sorry raytamtay, that this transfer is taking a while. If a facility cannot keep a child safe, that must be super stressful... . Hopefully that will be a good opportunity for a re-set, so to speak, for you dd.

I requested visitation be resumed and at least that has now been reinstated. Because obviously it had no affect on DD's behaviour.

Yikes! Have you considered that this may have been your dd's goal all along? (she knows you and knows that if she keeps it up long enough, she will wear you out and get what she wants without compliance... . )

I don't want to sound too harsh, at the same time it may be a major victory for your dd and a major set-back in therapy followed by even more acting out.

Is there a way for you to contact dd's the therapist (the one you liked) and maybe ask her opinion on this? She is close to the case and might be able to give you objective feedback... .

[raytamtay3]

I am so sorry raytamtay, that this transfer is taking a while. If a facility cannot keep a child safe, that must be super stressful... . Hopefully that will be a good opportunity for a re-set, so to speak, for you dd.

I requested visitation be resumed and at least that has now been reinstated. Because obviously it had no affect on DD's behaviour.

Yikes! Have you considered that this may have been your dd's goal all along? (she knows you and knows that if she keeps it up long enough, she will wear you out and get what she wants without compliance... . )

I don't want to sound too harsh, at the same time it may be a major victory for your dd and a major set-back in therapy followed by even more acting out.

Is there a way for you to contact dd's the therapist (the one you liked) and maybe ask her opinion on this? She is close to the case and might be able to give you objective feedback... .

You aren't being harsh, but no, I do not feel this was DD's intention. I truly believe that. She simply gave up there. Whether she will at the new place remains to be seen. But without a shadow of a doubt, this place was not for her. Even the district CM said so. They focus on her behavioor and not on what is contribujting to it. Why is she acting out? Why is she so angry. None of that has ever been the focus.

At first I agreeed with the visits stopping hoping it would make her wake up. But after two months realizing it had more of a negative impact, feel it's time to remove the restriction and to give her a sense that she has not been abandoned her a sense that her concerns will be heard when we see her. Not to mention I want to see if there are really brusies. Every person I poke to in this process, besides the RTC, feels visits should have never been suspended.

[raytamtay3]

Received a call from an institutional abuse investigator at lunch time. He told me he's over at the RTC and about to go in to talk to DD. He said the usual protocol is for them to send me a letter with their findings, but he said he'll call me and let me know. Which is cool.

The thing that worries me now, aside from the allegations being true, is now DD will know how to work the system. Whose to say she won't try this at the next place?

[crazedncrazymom]

Hi raytay,

I just wanted to jump in with my opinion and experience.  As you know, I went through hell with dd when she first entered rtf.  I completely agree with your decision to reinstate visitation and they should have never been revoked.  Your dd needs to know she is part of a family and that you are always willing to go the distance to visit with her.  However, I made my visits dependent on her behavior and attitude with me.  Be respectful to me on the phone or I'm not taking time to drive out there.  Now, home visits and off ground visits are a whole other story.  She needs to earn those. 

Plus, it's so very important to keep an eye on your dd when she is getting into restraints!  I would demand to see a medical report each and every time she is restrained.  Have them email it or fax it to you.  If they won't do that then have them show it to you when you show up for visitation. An idea might be that if your daughter complains of bruises or bumps ask that a picture be taken of the area of her body and sent to you.  That way you know whether to worry about it or not.

I don't want to scare you, but you need to be aware that kids can and have died during these restraints.  Not every day and it's not common but they do.  Then the facility gets vindicated because they "had" to restrain the kid. 

My dd went through a period where she was being restrained a lot because she was misbehaving in order to get over to the hospital.  It's kind of a story, but dd decided to refuse me to be allowed to monitor her treatment.  She rescinded her consent to allow the treatment team to talk to me.  Then she started acting out in order to get to the hospital.  I was not aware of any of this because I told dd she couldn't call me until she signed the consent form again.   By the time I saw her she had 2 HUGE bumps on her head from when she banged her head during a restraint.  I ended up telling the supervisor to either come up with a better safety plan for her or transfer her to the hospital to wait for a transfer to a new rtf.

Anyway, you are doing the right thing.  I know how hard this is and how heartbreaking it is for you to be in this situation.  You're doing such a great job.  Trust your gut!

-crazed

[raytamtay3]

I went to see her Saturday. She has bruises all over her arms that are clearly finger prints. She said the last incident she thought she was going to die because the GUY slammed her to the ground and she hit her head. She said he put his knee in her throat and she couldn't breathe.  She said she heard a crack and she got a pain in her ear. She also had a bruise on her temple that was in the going away stage, but still visible. The only thing I can do now is hope that the institutional investigator and CPS is really monitoring things until she gets transferred. I was informed by the RTC that I have the ability to sign her out. But I was also told by our district CM that if I did, they entire process of out of home would need to start from scratch. While I really would like her removed right now, I don't want to have to start from square one. I asked if I could at least put her back in the shelter until than, but was told I could, but that the process would start from scratch even if I did that. So I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. What would you do?

[crazedncrazymom]

Maybe ask if she could be transferred to a hospital while doing the rtc search?  If not then I would request a meeting with the director of rtc and ask the investigator to be there.  Let them know that is not acceptable and that you will be preparing a lawsuit against their facility.  Whether you do or not is your choice but they need to be afraid and to know that they are being so very closely watched.  Also, I'd have someone drop in every single day to check on her, whether it be you or your husband or her dad or the investigator.  I would not bring her home because you can't afford the emotional trauma of taking her out of the facility.  Plus, once she's out and "free" you can't guarantee she won't run and you won't be able to find her.

Check with the judge and see if you can't get a court order to transfer her to a mental hospital to wait for another rtf.  Once I picked the place that dd was going to it took less than 2 weeks to get her moved. 

I would be so worried sick.  I'm so sorry you're going through this!  It really is a judgment call on your part. Whatever you decide is really up to you.  Such a tough touch situation.  I'd be feeling pretty sick right now.   

I'd also demand that she be transported to a regular hospital ER for a look see to make sure there is no damage to her.  Does she have headaches?  I worry she might have a concussion or fracture.

Just a thought... I wonder if you can transfer her to a hospital on your own to await rtf.  We have 2 hospitals here that you just walk into and can sign yourself in.  If you have any like that in your area I'd give them a call and let them know the situation and ask if they can help.  We have Horsham (my favorite hospital) and Fairmount in the Philadelphia area.  It may be "starting over" if you do that, but she will still be in a locked and secure place while she waits.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[crazedncrazymom]

THe more I think about it, the more I like taking her to an ER.  If she shows up with all those bruises and bumps they will get DYFS involved.  You need help and support I don't think DYFS will allow her to go back into an "abusive" environment. 

[raytamtay3]

THe more I think about it, the more I like taking her to an ER.  If she shows up with all those bruises and bumps they will get DYFS involved.  You need help and support I don't think DYFS will allow her to go back into an "abusive" environment. 

Dyfus is already involved. A teacher at DD's school called the institution abuse department and someone came out Friday. My ex called Dyfus. And they are also doing an investigation.

[crazedncrazymom]

What is your heart telling you to do about all this?  How are you?  I sure wish I could offer some advice that would be useful to you.  Of course, as always we are all here to support you in whatever you have to do. 

[raytamtay3]

What is your heart telling you to do about all this?  How are you?  I sure wish I could offer some advice that would be useful to you.  Of course, as always we are all here to support you in whatever you have to do.  

Well my heart wants to save her and bring her home. But my head knows that is not the right thing to do. I am glad that the RTC is being watched. That makes me feel better having her stay there until a new RTC is secured. That coupled with me now speaking up about the going on there and my concern about my DD's well being. I'm confident that they are really goint to watch their Ps and Qs for a while. Plus they have been instructed by the Instituion Abuse Investigator to have the staff member in question no where near my DD until the investigation is complete. I feel relieved that they are being watched.

[raytamtay3]

Went for a visit this past Saturday and had to bring along our friend’s 7 year old DD (“S”) who is a little sweety, and who loves DD. I told the little girl that DD was in camp.  Anyway, the visit did not go well.

DD told us when she walked in that she was in a bad mood. So we were warned. DS was there with my ex as it was his visitation week with DS. DS was playing a game on my phone.  To start things off, S asked DD if she smokes.  :)D said no, and asked why she asked. S told her DS showed her a pack of smokes in her room which was the beginning of the end of the visit. DD got mad at DS and they both began bantering back and forth. DD told DS if he said something (I forget what it was, but I know it was minor) one more time, she was going to punch him in the face! Well right there I told her there will be no talk like that. But he did say it again at which point she got up and took the phone away from him. They went back and forth again and this time DD got up and “pretended” she was going to choke him by putting her hands around his neck at which point DS kicked her and pinched her. Well that was it. DD went after DS and DS tried to get at DD while trying to be restrained by my ex. DD started saying how we need to discipline DS or he’s going to turn out like her (snicker). That he’s gonna be hauled off in an ambulance and hold away because of his anger like she was.  At which point ex took son in the hallway and started yelling at him and spanking him (lightly). DD got mad at ex telling him to stop at what point I asked, why? I thought you said we don’t discipline him. She yelled that ex was embarrassing her…

She ended up leaving to take a 5 minute break at which time I talked to my son sternly telling him how he needs to get his anger in check and that he wasn’t innocent in this either. That I don’t care how angry he gets, he is never to put his hands on anyone.  But with DD gone, ex took the opportunity to yell saying how he will never allow DD back in his house. How much help she needs. What a lunatic she is.  Now mind you, as usual, DD didn’t hear this. What she hears is her father telling her what a horrible person I am and using what I say to him against me and telling her everything I have said (which obviously I’ve since learned not to say to him).

DD came back in and DS was still mad. In fact, I have never ever seen him as angry as he was. The look on his face actually made me because it was something I never saw before and was kinda of a cute funny. I know, wrong thing to do and I got myself in check too in that regard. Well DD started saying stuff to DS again and DS back to DD and it started all over again with her going after him an visa versa and DD pinched son. Then DD started cursing and I told her if she didn’t stop, I was leaving with S at which point she said we are done here anyway (she started crying a bit). Then she told me she thinks it best she and I don’t see each other for a while and I simply said “ok” as she left wtih 20 minutes left of our visit. I did tell her I loved her before I left and told her I know she is upset but that I would still like a hug good bye, but I was denied. She called ex that night... .why... .because she once again didn't hear what he said about her when she left the building. And once again, it's me who is the bad guy. But you know what? So be it. I choose to take the high road and will never ever stoop to his level.

I bought her a bag of toiletries.  As I was heading towards my car, I heard her cursing up a storm telling the staff member who was escorting her if she didn’t Fing find her Fing bag and Fing finds up someone stole it she’s gonna Fing freak out. It was bad.  She is definitely worse off at this place and I cannot wait until she is moved. She’s taken on a hostile I don’t care attitude that is bad. And he aggression seems to have gotten worse. How she was with DS is how she was with him at home. He is 8 years younger…

She told me she wants to stay there and finish her time. I didn’t get in to it there because she would not like what I had to say and I did not want to subject my son or S to anymore. But she is out regardless of what she wants. She’s lost all rights in that area.

Got pulled aside this morning at DS's camp and was told DS hurt two children yesterday. One he pinched  so hard he broke skin and the other he threw a block out and left a welt on his head... .he has one chance left or he's kicked out of camp... .I had a long talk with him about it and he's being grounded. And no more watching WWE. Ex said he isn't going to let him watch it anymore at his house too... .yeah sure... .

[lever.]

Good to hear from you raytam, I had been wondering how things were going.

I'm sorry you had such a difficult visit and I hope your daughter is moved to somewhere you are happier with soon.

I feel concerned about your son-he is being exposed to a lot of aggression and negativity at a young age. Your ex sounds very inconsistent,

Will family work be part of the package in the future?

It is difficult for you as you can only control your own management of your son's behaviour and not your ex's.

I don't think yelling and spanking are going to help at all.

I don't have the answers but we are all here to support you.

I think your son needs a lot of positive praise and clear but calm consequences for aggressive behaviour - but how difficult when his sister and Dad are giving him such poor role models.

[raytamtay3]

Good to hear from you raytam, I had been wondering how things were going.

I'm sorry you had such a difficult visit and I hope your daughter is moved to somewhere you are happier with soon.

I feel concerned about your son-he is being exposed to a lot of aggression and negativity at a young age. Your ex sounds very inconsistent,

Will family work be part of the package in the future?

It is difficult for you as you can only control your own management of your son's behaviour and not your ex's.

I don't think yelling and spanking are going to help at all.

I don't have the answers but we are all here to support you.

I think your son needs a lot of positive praise and clear but calm consequences for aggressive behaviour - but how difficult when his sister and Dad are giving him such poor role models.

Thanks. I think I have learned a lot with dealing with DD and all, that I've definetly improved on how I parent my DS7. I'm stern, but loving. Although I was with her too and it didn't work. But traditional parenting doesnt work with kids like her, as we all know. It does with DS though. So far... .

[Being Mindful]

Hi Ray,

What is the timeline for moving your D?

What research have you been able to do and how is it going for finding a new RTC?

Your son is suffering. What help is he getting? What about family therapy for you and him together?

I'm asking many questions and I'm sorry for that. I'm concerned for your son. He is a victim.

Finally, I really hope that you have started with the tools and lessons here on this site. You will need to be the one to lead the change in your family. It sounds like your son is asking for help in the only way he knows how which is acting out.

[raytamtay3]

Hi Ray,

What is the timeline for moving your D?

What research have you been able to do and how is it going for finding a new RTC?

Your son is suffering. What help is he getting? What about family therapy for you and him together?

I'm asking many questions and I'm sorry for that. I'm concerned for your son. He is a victim.

Finally, I really hope that you have started with the tools and lessons here on this site. You will need to be the one to lead the change in your family. It sounds like your son is asking for help in the only way he knows how which is acting out.

We are looking in to a facility that comes recommended by a mother of a child who was in such a place. It's a dual diagnoses faicility.

Not a bad idea about getting family therapy for DS and I.

As far as the tools mentioned on this site, I have and will continue trying to implement them. But DD sees through it.

[Being Mindful]

Hi Ray,

What is the timeline for moving your D?

What research have you been able to do and how is it going for finding a new RTC?

Your son is suffering. What help is he getting? What about family therapy for you and him together?

I'm asking many questions and I'm sorry for that. I'm concerned for your son. He is a victim.

Finally, I really hope that you have started with the tools and lessons here on this site. You will need to be the one to lead the change in your family. It sounds like your son is asking for help in the only way he knows how which is acting out.

We are looking in to a facility that comes recommended by a mother of a child who was in such a place. It's a dual diagnoses faicility.

Not a bad idea about getting family therapy for DS and I.

As far as the tools mentioned on this site, I have and will continue trying to implement them. But DD sees through it.

Hi Ray,

It is not a matter of DD seeing through it. These skills are for you. It is a change that will help YOU. When implemented, even just starting with one or two skills on a committed and regular basis, positive change will occur with you and eventually to your DD.

Trust us, many of us said the same thing about our kids and that initially it didn't work. But, it does work. Plus, when your DD starts experiencing the change in you, then you are setting the example that things will and can change.

I encourage you to read back through all of your threads and the responses you receive. Especially the responses from many members who have experienced positive results. IT IS POSSIBLE. It is possible to make changes to yourself. You have control over that. Look at your responses that negate the value of the skills.

You can keep coming here and venting and updating us on what is transpiring with your entire family... .a family that is suffering in huge ways. Venting is good. The support here is good. However, everything is ten times better when we ourselves make the changes by learning and using the skills on the right sight of the screen.

If you don't try, and try again, then my experience is that you will keep getting the same result... .a family that is hurting, struggling and is in so much pain. Minimally do it for your son. The same skills that you learn and use will help him. If not for your DD, then do it for him.

Take care Ray.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[lever.]

Sometimes I also feel that DD sees through it all and that it isn't effective but it does help ME and little by little it is making a difference. It should all really help with your son as he is so young.

Are you happy with the amount of time he is spending with your ex?

I really think family therapy would help.

I feel for you because there is a lot that is out of your control but at least you can focus on the things you CAN change-and it WILL make a difference.

You are doing a great job trying to find the right help for your DD.

[raytamtay3]

Being Mindful - As mentioned before, I HAVE BEEN reading and implenting the tools to the right. Never said I wasn't.

Some times we just need to vent and are not asking for advice.

Thanks.

[Being Mindful]

That's great Ray. I'm so glad you are. I completely believe in the skills and have passion that other parents find the same payoff as my family did. Perhaps I offended and if I did I'm sorry. I will refrain from giving you advice as I don't want to make it worse for you. 

[raytamtay3]

That's great Ray. I'm so glad you are. I completely believe in the skills and have passion that other parents find the same payoff as my family did. Perhaps I offended and if I did I'm sorry. I will refrain from giving you advice.

I'd be lying if I didn't say that I did sometimes feel a little undermined by some of your responses. I think I'm doing a pretty good job keeping things together and doing what is best for my DD. It's not that I don't welcome advice.  I do. But I usually ask for it.  Perhaps I'm a little touchy, and I appologize for that. But one of my personal goals on bettering myself is speaking how I feel without letting things fester.

Thanks for understanding.


T

[jek1227]

I am sorry for you and your family to go through this. My daughter has inflicted harm on herself to get out of RTC previously and we are currently in the process of finding another RTC after the most recent hospitalization.

These cycles are very difficult to endure. I literally feel your pain.

[Rapt Reader]

Hi, ramtamtay3 

Has anything changed in the status of your daughter's stay at the RTC she's in, or in the progress of getting her into (maybe?) a Dual Diagnosis Center? Have you gleaned any more information on that place? As everyone who knows my/my son's story, the Dual Diagnosis Center he was admitted to really saved his life and our family's sanity. I truly hope she is able to be admitted to one and is willing to accept the treatment they have in place.

I certainly understand the need to vent somewhere, and to feel able to do so... .Yeah, you can vent here, raytamtay3    And feel safe to do it without judgment. Sometimes when we offer our thoughts about The Lessons or the TOOLS: S.E.T. - Support, Empathy and Truth and Communication Techniques, it's just because we've found so much help from them in our own lives that we feel a need to offer them when we see other Moms in pain and angst... .We care about you here, and want to help you so very much 

Keep us in the loop and let us know how things are going, OK? I'd love to know about the Dual Diagnosis Program that you are looking into (of course, right?   ). Like, how long would it last? Is it close to home? Do they have a waiting list, or could she be admitted soon? Is she in any way interested in going there, or still defiant about something else and just wanting to get this RTC finished with? I so hope that somehow she gets an epiphany and realizes she's got a problem, that she needs help for it, and then decides to accept that help. Maybe a DDx Program can help her get to that place, like it did for my son... .

[HealingSpirit]

Dear Raytamtay3,

I'm so sorry you're having to deal with all this!  I know it's exhausting, frustrating, and very sad to see you DD behave so horribly.  Your DD is lucky to have you to advocate for her.  I'm impressed!  What would our kids do without us?

I wish I had some words of advice, but I've never had to deal with the things you're dealing with.  I just wanted you to know you're not alone!

Sending hugs and peace to you!

[raytamtay3]

Received a call from DD last night. Sorry but S.E.T, validation and all that went out the window as I was pissed at her for what she has done. She tried to explain her side of things, even said she knows she was wrong, but as she explained, I could tell she took pride in it! That's what set me off. I did not yell.  I did not accuse. In a stern voice all I asked her, after she told me she was basically an innocent bystander, was 'was she or was she not out of her house at a time she was to be in it and walk to this other girl's house'? She said yes. BUT THAT SHE WASN'T GOING TO DO ANYTHING UNTIL THE GIRL SWUNG ON HER! Tried to get my sympathy for having a cut on her eye to which I responded I have no sympathy for that. To which she started cursing to which I hung up the phone. Done. Oh after reminding her she was still on probation, how I was told the parents of the girl in question were pressing charges, and how now she will be going to jail. She said no she won't be. I said oh we shall see about that.

[Rapt Reader]

Yikes  

That's really sad, raytamtay3, and under those circumstances I can see how hard that would've been to use the communication tools. You did keep your cool, and followed your boundary of not letting her verbally abuse you. That was good  

Is she really going to go to jail?

Is another RTC or Dual Diagnosis Program out of the picture now?

What are the professionals telling you (at the place she's in, and the CM, etc.)?

It never ends, does it? I'm very sorry... .It does sound like you are using Radical Acceptance for family members here and getting a bit stronger in letting her deal with the natural consequences of her behaviors. That's cool