Help Me - We Go Before The Judge Tomorrow... Not Sure What to Feel

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

Well... . it could all be over tomorrow... .

If... .

1.  She actually shows up with her attorney!

2.  They do not tear up the last draft of the MSA we both felt could/should be presented to the Judge

3.  No last minute raging on her part and decides she wants to go to trial!

I do not know how I should feel.  After this steady diet of raging, back and forth and her continued assessment that I am the reason and it is all my fault that this divorce has taken more than a year after she filed. 

I am wired... . will not sleep at all probably tonight.

Give me words of wisdom for my task in front of me tomorrow.

How did you feel... . what did you feel after it was over?  What did you feel if your spouse totally turned a 180 and decided to walk away from all that you put into a final draft of a MSA and says, "Go to trial and let the Judge decide"?

NewWays

[NewWays]

Well... . it could all be over tomorrow... .

If... .

1.  She actually shows up with her attorney!

2.  They do not tear up the last draft of the MSA we both felt could/should be presented to the Judge

3.  No last minute raging on her part and decides she wants to go to trial!

I do not know how I should feel.  After this steady diet of raging, back and forth and her continued assessment that I am the reason and it is all my fault that this divorce has taken more than a year after she filed. 

I am wired... . will not sleep at all probably tonight.

Give me words of wisdom for my task in front of me tomorrow.

How did you feel... . what did you feel after it was over?  What did you feel if your spouse totally turned a 180 and decided to walk away from all that you put into a final draft of a MSA and says, "Go to trial and let the Judge decide"?

NewWays

[momtara]

If she avoids a decent settlement and wants court, that won't look so good.  Hang in there.  I am scared of court, myself.  I avoided it and negotiated.  But sometimes it DOES turn out fair and it DOES work out.  Try to stay calm!

[ForeverDad]

Be prepared for pressure to gift away more than is reasonable, pressure to be the one negotiating while the other side ignore such pressure.

Present yourself as a normal person (or a normal parent for those who have children together).

One advantage is that court generally follows policies and procedures, not necessarily fair, but they are structures that can limit the harm to you.  If your spouse refuses to negotiate reasonably, don't waste more effort there, leave it to the court to decide, odds are you'll get a little bit less unfair decision from the court than from your stbEx.

A truism here... . The misbehaving person gets little or no consequences and the person behaving reasonably gets little or no credit.

[livednlearned]

I don't think I slept the night before any of my settlement or court dates. It's very nerve-wracking! I had to learn to practice mindfulness -- it's one of the blessings of being part of this 3-ring circus for so many years. I feel a lot more calm in general, and less prone to being anxious.

Whether your stbx settles or not might have to do with how much narcissism she experiences, and how she is motivated by that narcissism. Once my ex experienced a narcissistic injury, whether it was from me, my lawyer, his lawyer, the PC, or the judge, his behavior shifted instantly. Until then, he would act like big man on campus, very reasonable, level-headed. That helped me settle most of our case in mediation. Unfortunately, then things started to fall apart and he didn't comply with anything, and after 3 years of extensions and delays and the judge all but rocking him to sleep, everyone is fed up with N/BPDx's behavior and things are pretty quiet now. It might move more quickly for you because you don't have custody issues.

Anyway, I hope all went well today.  

[NewWays]

The divorce is final!

She appeared with her attorney and after about 2 hours of her trying to take control and change everything that had been worked out so far she realized that a failure to resolve whatever remaining differences would result in an expensive cost for a trial.  She did consider the trial option because she knew that would be more financial strain on me that she could feel good about knowing it could help make things even more difficult for me.

When the Judge referenced the MSA, I thought to myself, “What did we really settle here or agree to” after 9 years of marriage?

It rained all day and after the hearing was over she walked away, never said a word and left the courtroom like she was exiting the theater from backstage.  Since I was downtown, I left the courtroom and took a cab to a Starbucks and treated myself to a triple shot, Grande white mocha with light whip!

While I was drinking my coffee, I thought, “None of us…even though we all were fairly ignorant about what the BPD condition would eventually present to us…both individually and as a couple…were wanting to fail at our marriage and trash the hopes and dreams that we attached to our relationship and marriage, even though it most cases it already had two strikes against it from the beginning”

I am very clear about the fact that the divorce really had to be the final outcome because I learned after the many hours I spent trying to understand this disorder that only when BPD disordered people  take the steps to seek out and “stay the course” with comprehensive, long term therapy does any chance for real healing become possible.  I realized long ago that her continued refusal to consider any individual therapy and the continued discounting of DBT and her personal assessment that it was a joke…was a death sentence to both of us and our marriage.

The one thing that is the hardest to accept (and yes, my mindfulness and radical acceptance skills are challenged each and every day to help me resolve this) is what Skip, ForeverDad, Lived N Learned and many helpful others have pointed out in many of their very helpful posts is that the reality of these types of relationships/marriages is…that the real facts and data information point to the fact that your spouse probably did not ever really love you at all!

So…it is a new day for NewWays and I now must continue to work on me, each and every day as I walk my new path in my life.

How did you feel after your divorce was final and it “Was Over”?

NewWays

[livednlearned]

Congratulations on avoiding a costly trial! You are now pronounced single and a new life awaits. 

The one thing that is the hardest to accept (and yes, my mindfulness and radical acceptance skills are challenged each and every day to help me resolve this) is what Skip, ForeverDad, Lived N Learned and many helpful others have pointed out in many of their very helpful posts is that the reality of these types of relationships/marriages is…that the real facts and data information point to the fact that your spouse probably did not ever really love you at all!

I no longer think about whether N/BPDx loved me or not... . which is funny. It used to consume me. Now I think about what it means to love, period. What it means to love myself, love my son, love my friends, the new man I'm dating, my family. I wasn't a whole person in my marriage, so how could N/BPDx love me? He certainly wasn't whole either. But wholeness is possible for you, for all of us, no matter how broken down we are. Sometimes, it's even the breaking down that helps us discover our wholeness.

I'm glad things worked out ok for you, and hope if there is anything she needs to do to comply, she does it. Otherwise, see you back here 

[seeking balance]

Congrats on making it to the end and having your sanity in tact

How did you feel after your divorce was final and it “Was Over”?

I had a hangover effect... . not having the stress or the ties meant I was really able to let all my guards down. I had the tools in place including new friends and hobbies, but I remember being tired and fuzzy when it was all done finally.

None of us get married to end in divorce, even with the bad, I was free to grieve - which was necessary for me.  It was all over once the house was refinanced by me and such.

Let yourself have some time for feelings to process now that you are free and clear.

Peace,

SB

[Waddams]

Congratz on obtaining your freedom! 

She appeared with her attorney and after about 2 hours of her trying to take control and change everything that had been worked out so far she realized that a failure to resolve whatever remaining differences would result in an expensive cost for a trial.  She did consider the trial option because she knew that would be more financial strain on me that she could feel good about knowing it could help make things even more difficult for me.

It's amazing though how when BPD's are immersed in and surrounded by the actual lawyers, judges, etc. and are in the courtroom, when they are confronted with the reality of how destructive they've been, lots of times they do back down.  My uPDxw has done just that before.  The light is shined on them and they can't hide anything (if you and your L have done your job right).  That's why courthouse settlements happen so often with them.  I think it just goes to show disordered or not, they know right from wrong and always did.  Otherwise, they wouldn't be able to put aside their emotions and anger and settle even at the last minute.

[momtara]

I don't think it helps to think about whether they really loved you.  What truly is love, anyway?  It does involve respect and the ability to take pleasure in putting someone else first... . but maybe there were times your ex truly believe she loved you.  I don't think you should discount that.  It is a shame and sad that any marriage ends.  I grew up vowing NEVER to get divorced like my parents.  It's still very surreal to me that it even happened.  Nine years is a long time and you deserve congratulations for hanging in there.  You deserve love and obviously she saw something in you, even though it couldn't work out with someone so disordered.

[whirlpoollife]

The divorce is final!

The one thing that is the hardest to accept (and yes, my mindfulness and radical acceptance skills are challenged each and every day to help me resolve this) is what Skip, ForeverDad, Lived N Learned and many helpful others have pointed out in many of their very helpful posts is that the reality of these types of relationships/marriages is…that the real facts and data information point to the fact that your spouse probably did not ever really love you at all!

Congratulations

[NewWays]

All

What were the two most important things you learned from your failed marriage and divorce?

Seeking Balance

“Let yourself have some time for feelings to process now that you are free and clear”

          Even though it has only been a week, I understand what you mean 100% about processing feelings

Waddams

“I think it just goes to show disordered or not, they know right from wrong and always did”

          Do you think they really do know the difference or, what I have thought about it that they in fact did know the difference, but just did not care about what they were doing that was so hurtful!  Your thoughts?

Lived n Learned

“I no longer think about whether N/BPDx loved me or not... . which is funny. It used to consume me”

          I am trying to make that transition as well.  How did you move away from letting ti consume you?

ForeverDad

“A truism here... . The misbehaving person gets little or no consequences and the person behaving reasonably gets little or no credit”

          I have walked a mile in your shoes, and you are 200% correct!

NewWays

[livednlearned]

Waddams

“I think it just goes to show disordered or not, they know right from wrong and always did”

         :)o you think they really do know the difference or, what I have thought about it that they in fact did know the difference, but just did not care about what they were doing that was so hurtful!  Your thoughts?

I imagine it must be extremely challenging for BPD sufferers to act on knowing what is right from wrong because they lack  a stable sense of self. I remember reading something a BPD sufferer wrote, about how she did not experience emotional bonding like most people do, and so it was difficult to understand the emotional significance of someone if the person was not there in front of them (object constancy). When that person was there, it was like gravity, and she felt the force of the emotions very strongly. When the person wasn't there, the bonds didn't exist.

This works the other way -- BPD sufferers may have intense emotions toward you that are associated with some kind of earlier trauma, but you're the person standing in front of them, and you get the full effect. They aren't necessarily aware that they have transferred feelings from an earlier trauma to you. Anyone here who suffers from PTSD will recognize this... .

Harnessing thoughts, behaviors, and feelings is hard when you have a stable sense of self. I can only imagine what it must be like for someone who is BPD.

[GaGrl]

Waddams

“I think it just goes to show disordered or not, they know right from wrong and always did”

         :)o you think they really do know the difference or, what I have thought about it that they in fact did know the difference, but just did not care about what they were doing that was so hurtful!  Your thoughts?

I imagine it must be extremely challenging for BPD sufferers to act on knowing what is right from wrong because they lack  a stable sense of self. I remember reading something a BPD sufferer wrote, about how she did not experience emotional bonding like most people do, and so it was difficult to understand the emotional significance of someone if the person was not there in front of them (object constancy). When that person was there, it was like gravity, and she felt the force of the emotions very strongly. When the person wasn't there, the bonds didn't exist.

This works the other way -- BPD sufferers may have intense emotions toward you that are associated with some kind of earlier trauma, but you're the person standing in front of them, and you get the full effect. They aren't necessarily aware that they have transferred feelings from an earlier trauma to you. Anyone here who suffers from PTSD will recognize this... .

Harnessing thoughts, behaviors, and feelings is hard when you have a stable sense of self. I can only imagine what it must be like for someone who is BPD.

The most clarity DH ever received re: his then-wife's thinking was when, during another conversation about her constant infidelities, she said to him, "I know it's wrong, and I know it hurts you.  But it's what I want to do, so I'm going to do it."  This may be due to her tending more toward NPD than BPD, but it was certainly telling in that she clearly stated she knew right from wrong and was being deliberate in her actions and choices.

[livednlearned]

Waddams

“I think it just goes to show disordered or not, they know right from wrong and always did”

         :)o you think they really do know the difference or, what I have thought about it that they in fact did know the difference, but just did not care about what they were doing that was so hurtful!  Your thoughts?

I imagine it must be extremely challenging for BPD sufferers to act on knowing what is right from wrong because they lack  a stable sense of self. I remember reading something a BPD sufferer wrote, about how she did not experience emotional bonding like most people do, and so it was difficult to understand the emotional significance of someone if the person was not there in front of them (object constancy). When that person was there, it was like gravity, and she felt the force of the emotions very strongly. When the person wasn't there, the bonds didn't exist.

This works the other way -- BPD sufferers may have intense emotions toward you that are associated with some kind of earlier trauma, but you're the person standing in front of them, and you get the full effect. They aren't necessarily aware that they have transferred feelings from an earlier trauma to you. Anyone here who suffers from PTSD will recognize this... .

Harnessing thoughts, behaviors, and feelings is hard when you have a stable sense of self. I can only imagine what it must be like for someone who is BPD.

The most clarity DH ever received re: his then-wife's thinking was when, during another conversation about her constant infidelities, she said to him, "I know it's wrong, and I know it hurts you.  But it's what I want to do, so I'm going to do it."  This may be due to her tending more toward NPD than BPD, but it was certainly telling in that she clearly stated she knew right from wrong and was being deliberate in her actions and choices.

I agree they know right from wrong... . it's being able to harness the demons that is hard. And having the will to do the hard work.

[peiper]

I think if they really knew right from wrong they wouldnt do the things they do. Their emotions at the time are their reality. When mine left she took all the sheets and pillows. Who does that?

[Waddams]

Waddams

“I think it just goes to show disordered or not, they know right from wrong and always did”

          Do you think they really do know the difference or, what I have thought about it that they in fact did know the difference, but just did not care about what they were doing that was so hurtful!  Your thoughts?

The second part of your question I think sums it up.  They know the difference and don't care.  It's the entitlement they carry.  The know what is right and wrong.  They know what is acceptable behavior and what is not.  However, they also feel that they can do whatever they want, get away with whatever they want, etc. because of some kind of prior experiences where it became learned behavior.  So where right/wrong/socially acceptable behavior/etc. conflict with what they want, what they want wins out, and they will lie/cheat/steal/hurt others/etc. to get what they want.  And in the end, they don't care.  The sense of entitlement turns into "I got what I wanted, screw the ones I had to hurt".  But in that thinking there's still the "... .I had to hurt... ." part and they know it's wrong.  Then they come up with all kinds of mental gymnastics to justify doing something the know is wrong.  That's where splitting comes in.  They split us black to justify hurting us, so we deserve it in their minds.  It cancels out other morality in their thinking so they can look in a mirror and sleep at night.

But in the background, they still know right from wrong.  It's turned into an art form for me to figure out how to hold boundaries to keep uPDxw from continuing to hurt me and at the same time let her keep doing her wrong things.  Basically give her the rope to hang herself while protecting myself and S9.  It should be all coming to a head very soon! (As in starting tomorrow at a court hearing!)