Early signs of cheating

[Lion Fire]

I was purging all communications between myself and my ex from my phone, email etc last night.

I came across old messages between us way before we were together. She was in a relationship with another guy at the time and on reflection the messages she sent me were totally inappropriate for a platonic relationship. They were flirtatious and escalated over time. "I'm loving you so much", "I love your beautiful heart", "hey beautiful", "I need to see you to get my testosterone injection"? etc... .

When I did see her for hikes, dinner etc, she used to tell me way too much about the relationship she was in and regularly remind me of the fact that she is only with this guy because she cannot be with me.

My replies, texts and in person, were largely restrained but I was also playing a game of sorts and lapping up the attention and adoration of a beautiful woman. She told me that her partner knew about her feelings for me which I now know was absolute bs. I can see how she was Triangulation with me as the third party. I also see how she triangulated with another guy when we were together. He was older, a kind of a father figure, and made no mystery out of the fact that he was "in love" with her. She told me she had feelings for him but they were secondary to the "big love" she felt for me. This in itself was unconvincing and I never bought it. I did not know much about BPD but I knew it was a weird dynamic.

I can see clearly how Triangulation played out right from the start.

Anyone else experience similar dynamics?



Knowing what i know now, I would never have allowed myself to even get past the early idealization phase.

[AwakenedOne]

Anyone else experience similar dynamics?

I'll use your question for an opportunity to vent this.

The Triangle: Her Mom, My Ex & Me

Emotional/Covert Incest

I know... . it's sick.

[trappedinlove]

I was purging all communications between myself and my ex from my phone, email etc last night.

I came across old messages between us way before we were together. She was in a relationship with another guy at the time and on reflection the messages she sent me were totally inappropriate for a platonic relationship. They were flirtatious and escalated over time. "I'm loving you so much", "I love your beautiful heart", "hey beautiful", "I need to see you to get my testosterone injection"? etc... .

When I did see her for hikes, dinner etc, she used to tell me way too much about the relationship she was in and regularly remind me of the fact that she is only with this guy because she cannot be with me.

My replies, texts and in person, were largely restrained but I was also playing a game of sorts and lapping up the attention and adoration of a beautiful woman. She told me that her partner knew about her feelings for me which I now know was absolute bs. I can see how she was Triangulation with me as the third party. I also see how she triangulated with another guy when we were together. He was older, a kind of a father figure, and made no mystery out of the fact that he was "in love" with her. She told me she had feelings for him but they were secondary to the "big love" she felt for me. This in itself was unconvincing and I never bought it. I did not know much about BPD but I knew it was a weird dynamic.

Anyone else experience similar dynamics?

Scaringly similar dynamics here too.  Specifically:

"She was in a relationship with another guy at the time"

"the messages she sent me were totally inappropriate for a platonic relationship"

... . and quite similar quotes in essence

"When I did see her for hikes, dinner etc, she used to tell me way too much about the relationship she was in"

"regularly remind me of the fact that she is only with this guy because she cannot be with me"

(well sorta, she admitted she is confused and that she really wants to be with me but eventually decided to stay with her bf and keep seeing me as a close friend, and continue flirting)

"I was also playing a game of sorts and lapping up the attention and adoration of a beautiful woman"

"She told me that her partner knew about her feelings for me"

(I actually believe her on that.  I've met him and he seemed to know we're close friends, though it seems like our r/s made him break up from her eventually - and that's when things really started going south)

"I can see how she was Triangulation with me as the third party."

Oh yeah

"I also see how she triangulated with another guy when we were together."

I kept feeling this way with her as she always seemed to make sure she has a backup.

"He was older, a kind of a father figure"

Yup.  And after the b/u she keeps Triangulation father figures with young studs.  (Now that I think of it, I might have been the father figure, or maybe an odd one  )

I can see clearly how Triangulation played out right from the start.

Knowing what i know now, I would never have allowed myself to even get past the early idealization phase.

Went I went over our chat history I saw an early message from me after the second or third time we've met that I'm scared by the intensity of feelings I have for her since the minute we've met and that's inappropriate given she's in a relationship.  So I wanted to keep a safe distance.  To that she replied that of course I'm entitled to do that but it seems too extreme to her and she wants to remain friends.  I was tempted by her siren voice and got on the slippery slope.

[Ihope2]

My exBPDh would remark that various women had the "hots" for him, these could be women he had dealings with before we got married, or it could be women he encountered during our marriage.  Then he would later remark to me that he knew and could sense that that woman wanted to get into bed with him.

I do not get jealous very quickly, but this type of remark does give me a painful little pang in my heart.  But I would just go along with it and say something like "Really?  I wonder what her story is?" or something like that.

I think he did it for two reasons, firstly, to bolster his own non-existant self-esteem, and secondly, to keep me hanging on by a thread, so that I would be in a one-down position in this regard in our relationship. 

He would also talk to me for hours about his previous relationships, and I was expected to hear the explicit details and I was expected to be okay with that.

And then he would attack me about my previous relationships, and I would regret ever having confided anything about my past to him... .

[BorisAcusio]

I was purging all communications between myself and my ex from my phone, email etc last night.

I came across old messages between us way before we were together. She was in a relationship with another guy at the time and on reflection the messages she sent me were totally inappropriate for a platonic relationship. They were flirtatious and escalated over time. "I'm loving you so much", "I love your beautiful heart", "hey beautiful", "I need to see you to get my testosterone injection"? etc... .

When I did see her for hikes, dinner etc, she used to tell me way too much about the relationship she was in and regularly remind me of the fact that she is only with this guy because she cannot be with me.

My replies, texts and in person, were largely restrained but I was also playing a game of sorts and lapping up the attention and adoration of a beautiful woman. She told me that her partner knew about her feelings for me which I now know was absolute bs. I can see how she was Triangulation with me as the third party. I also see how she triangulated with another guy when we were together. He was older, a kind of a father figure, and made no mystery out of the fact that he was "in love" with her. She told me she had feelings for him but they were secondary to the "big love" she felt for me. This in itself was unconvincing and I never bought it. I did not know much about BPD but I knew it was a weird dynamic.

I can see clearly how Triangulation played out right from the start.

Anyone else experience similar dynamics?



Knowing what i know now, I would never have allowed myself to even get past the early idealization phase.

Borderlines thrive in Triangulation. They use these external objects to soothe themselves and to fill the void. Mine did the same from the very beginning, men showed up from literally all walks of life with some common characteristics: most of them was considerably younger(5-10 years) and way less attractive. There was no build up over time, slowly getting to know each other phase, it was all fast paced, instantly flirtatious/sexual as if she had no other currency to gain and keep attention.  

They must have felt like there was a special connection because of the dynamics and the obvious disparity in the age/look departments. It made me realize that what I thought is unique about our relationships is just a pattern how she hook her narcisstic supply.

[topknot]

Yes, Ihope and Boris... . had to hear every last detail about his ex's, including telling me in bed her boobs were way bigger than mine. HUH ? Who in the world says that? And yes, they always have to be way younger.  He is 60, and the babe he was on the phone with I have found out is 40. I was laughing,  thinking,  she has money, and when she finds out you are a broke #@×, she will be SO gone! And yes, I wish I never said anything about my previous boyfriend. When he found out we were different races, he threw the demeaning slurs in my face.  I was horrified.  I said I never discussed him out of respect since I am now with you. Don't ever say that again to me. He is a very wonderful man. Different when the shoe is on the other foot... .

[blissful_camper]

Yes.  It began really early within a few weeks of our romantic involvement.  It felt like there was a third person in the relationship with us.  He rotated who that third person was throughout our involvement.  It's intended to undermine the partner. 

[waverider]

Just a note on use of the term "Triangulation". Triangulation is not the act of bringing in an outside person into the dynamics and using them as "threat/substitute/alternative" as a means to keep the drama bubbling. This is just malicious power playing

Triangulation is the setting up of an unhealthy dynamic between people who would otherwise have a normal legitimate (not brought in for the purpose) interaction. ie triangulation is like starting to spin an existing wheel.

An easy to visualize example is that between family members/work colleagues/close friends. This relationship already exist. If this is triangulated then that is one person setting themselves up as "Victim", they approach another member of this group and set them up as "Rescuer', by labelling the third member as "Prosecuter/Bully'. sometimes they will swap these roles, at times becoming the rescuer or prosecuter themselves. the other members may be shunted from one role to the other, to suit.

The outcome of this is that the two other parties, who otherwise would have no issues with each other, start to react to the painting black/white of the perpetrator, and end up with issues/twisted perceptions of each other. They are turned against each other as a result of the coloring of the perpetrator.

Often the triangulator is often unaware, or at least not caring about the flow on dynamic. When approaching the "rescuer' for validation, it is about their need for validation, the rescuer's resultant disdain for the persecutor is no more than collateral damage. In fact it can become fuel for when it is the rescuers turn to be the persecutor

This is not the same as the playing off of competitors and potential partner choices, as a deliberate act to provoke

[goldylamont]

Just a note on use of the term "Triangulation". Triangulation is not the act of bringing in an outside person into the dynamics and using them as "threat/substitute/alternative" as a means to keep the drama bubbling. This is just malicious power playing

Triangulation is the setting up of an unhealthy dynamic between people who would otherwise have a normal legitimate (not brought in for the purpose) interaction. ie triangulation is like starting to spin an existing wheel.

An easy to visualize example is that between family members/work colleagues/close friends. This relationship already exist. If this is triangulated then that is one person setting themselves up as "Victim", they approach another member of this group and set them up as "Rescuer', by labelling the third member as "Prosecuter/Bully'. sometimes they will swap these roles, at times becoming the rescuer or prosecuter themselves. the other members may be shunted from one role to the other, to suit.

The outcome of this is that the two other parties, who otherwise would have no issues with each other, start to react to the painting black/white of the perpetrator, and end up with issues/twisted perceptions of each other. They are turned against each other as a result of the coloring of the perpetrator.

Often the triangulator is often unaware, or at least not caring about the flow on dynamic. When approaching the "rescuer' for validation, it is about their need for validation, the rescuer's resultant disdain for the persecutor is no more than collateral damage. In fact it can become fuel for when it is the rescuers turn to be the persecutor

This is not the same as the playing off of competitors and potential partner choices, as a deliberate act to provoke

i've seen before that people are using the term triangulation in the wrong way, but reading this leaves me even more confused. i want to make sure to try and use it correctly. thing is, most people (at least on the Leaving board) aren't dealing with triangulation where all parties know and interact with each other. are you saying that the real meaning of triangulation requires all parties to know each other without the 'triangulator' being involved? if so, then what is the proper term to be used when your partner is lying to you about an ex, giving you a negative impression about people who you don't know otherwise? << this is a more common situation it seems like it should have it's own term if triangulation is incorrect? just trying to understand.

[goldylamont]

hmm, i found this, i think i'm understanding better:

www.thewellcounselingcenter.com/2011/10/18/avoiding-triangulation-in-relationships/

maybe it's that the classic definition of triangulation means that the third party is positioned in-between the other two. meaning in a pwBPD had a problem with their SO, they tell the problem to a third party that also knows the SO. so everyone knows each other. i liked the example given in the link, is this a good example you think?

[AG]

hmm, i found this, i think i'm understanding better:

www.thewellcounselingcenter.com/2011/10/18/avoiding-triangulation-in-relationships/

maybe it's that the classic definition of triangulation means that the third party is positioned in-between the other two. meaning in a pwBPD had a problem with their SO, they tell the problem to a third party that also knows the SO. so everyone knows each other. i liked the example given in the link, is this a good example you think?

This is news to me I thought triangulation was more like your BPD girl or guy bringing up theyre ex and using what they have done in the past as a weapon. Like this hypothetical sentence. "You arent man enough my ex used to give me sex everyday but you don't" or something like this "My ex used to see me everyday but you suck as a boyfriend in comparison since you only see me a couple times per week". I thought it was a form of mentioning a third party to manipulate the situation and get what they want from you. This is new news to me. Please use it in a sentence so I can better understand what it is.

[waverider]

hmm, i found this, i think i'm understanding better:

www.thewellcounselingcenter.com/2011/10/18/avoiding-triangulation-in-relationships/

maybe it's that the classic definition of triangulation means that the third party is positioned in-between the other two. meaning in a pwBPD had a problem with their SO, they tell the problem to a third party that also knows the SO. so everyone knows each other. i liked the example given in the link, is this a good example you think?

Correct, the other two parties interactions is like the third side of the triangle. If they otherwise have no connection it is more of an open V. Much the same way a client may play off two competing contractors negotiating a job of work to get the best deal. Its just good old powerplay, either for advantage, or the malicious buzz of it. It is not damaging the relationship between the third parties, as there otherwise was no connection in the first place. To break this, the option is to put up a boundary about not having to compete, and walk away. The option to step into the middle and unite is not there in this situation as there is no common 3rd link

With triangulation, the parties can step into the middle, closing the third link,and unite to refuse to play the assigned roles and as a result the cycle breaks. Think of parents who keep a united front rather than fall into, "dad is mean not like you mum/mum is mean not like you dad" End result is each parent ends up believing the other one is mean (throw enough dirt and some will stick), and there is conflict between the parents<< kids play this trick well

[waverider]

This is news to me I thought triangulation was more like your BPD girl or guy bringing up theyre ex and using what they have done in the past as a weapon. Like this hypothetical sentence. "You arent man enough my ex used to give me sex everyday but you don't" or something like this "My ex used to see me everyday but you suck as a boyfriend in comparison since you only see me a couple times per week". I thought it was a form of mentioning a third party to manipulate the situation and get what they want from you. This is new news to me. Please use it in a sentence so I can better understand what it is.

You would use this technique yourself to get a plumbing quote. "The other guy said he would do the bathroom and laundry for the same price". A pwBPDs lack of respect for boundaries enables them to take this technique down to a personal level without any empathy for your feelings, throw in a casual disregard for honesty... Otherwise it is exactly the same behavior.

The plumbers in this case have no connection just as you and the ex have no connection, so it stays as a linear drama between you and your partner. You dont ruin the connection between you and the ex, as there isn't one. It is this third side of the triangle that is the collateral damage part of true triangulation

[waverider]

Often your own personal need for validation (touch of codependency makes this all the more likely) helps you all too easily take on the role of rescuer and be too ready to play your role in the triangle

[myself]

Thanks waverider, that makes more sense. It has me wondering, does this spread out beyond triangles? If 3 others are involved, or 5, or 10, what's it called? A BPD-agon? The 'V' you mention could also branch out to many more offshoots than that. Depending on how many others are interacted with.

[waverider]

Thanks waverider, that makes more sense. It has me wondering, does this spread out beyond triangles? If 3 others are involved, or 5, or 10, what's it called? A BPD-agon? The 'V' you mention could also branch out to many more offshoots than that. Depending on how many others are interacted with.

Dont even start thinking about what happens when more than one person in the triangle is pwBPD

For us the most important thing is to recognize it and not play our role. It is difficult however as it can be subtle and start over the smallest of issues. Once you can recognize it you will see it everywhere in all walks of life, we even do it ourselves. It is one of the corner stones of gossip.

If you find yourself disliking someone who has personally done you no wrong, it pays to take a closer look as to why, with this in mind.

[Blimblam]

man I hated when she would triangle with her female Narc friend.  It got really confusing because. THe friend would play the victim and act the persecuter, while I was the true victim being accused of being the persecuter, leaving my ex to rescue her friend as she internalized and chameleoned her friends BS and  parroting it at me. 

[waverider]

As a rescuer in this triangle and being "conditioned" to think of your opposite number as a persecutor you become confused, when all is forgiven between them and they are "besties" again. You cannot switch like that, you feel left betrayed and set up>now you are victim. pwBPD does not cope with others being victims, that is their role. You are now a threat>ie persecutor, and their ex persecutor is now the rescuer (getting payback for you thinking them bad)and pwBPD is victim again, you react angrily and play the persecutor role

The pendulum swings

[enlighten me]

Until now I didn't have a name for it.

I called it the divide and conquer technique.

My ex wife used this all the time. I thought it was to do with her lies. She cleverly manipulated everyone to believe that someone else was the bad guy and that person didn't like them.

By doing this she limited the contact that everyone had with each other so there was no way that her lies could be exposed.

As an example she painted a picture of her mum that wasn't very nice and said that her mum didn't like me and had called me all sorts of hurtful things. Obviously I wanted very little to do with her mum. She then painted a picture of me to her mum as a control freak who wouldn't let her do anything and had also said that I didn't like family gatherings so not to invite me to any.

She used this technique about one of her friends. The way she played it was actually quite brilliant. She started by saying that her friend used to steal off of her when they were kids. A while later she said that a mutual friend thought her friend had stolen off of her. We had some money go missing in the house and she said that her friend had been around but it couldn't have been her she would never do that. She built up the story and defended her friend portraying her friend as a thief and her as the loyal trusting friend.

She did this with everyone. In the end no-one but her had contact with anyone. She didn't have to worry about her lies being exposed and she got to play the victim with everyone.

[Narellan]

I was in a triangulation most of the time, I just didn't know it. He initially was flirting with both my best friend and I, but as she was already involved with other men she wasn't interested. But she still gave him the impression she was, and flirted with him at every opportunity, even though she was not interested. They messaged each other on FB then he deleted her and focused just on me for a few months. He painted her pretty black, but then sometimes he'd go NC with me and give me the silent treatment and start posting photos on FB that he took of her. It totally did my head in.

When he ditched me I asked her if she had heard from him and she said " no, he won't contact me he would know it would cause trouble between us"

Absolute and utter BS. From a day after we split he was ringing and messaging her, and she was replying. They even sent each other photos, she on holidays in her bikini, flirty pose.

Meanwhile I could barely get out of bed, and she's organising to meet him.

Consequently neither of them are in my life now, but it devastated me completely.

Last week he deleted her from FB and turned up a day later at my door. What the heck?

I wasn't home and nothing since.

He always bragged about how everyone fell in love with him. Stories about women flirting with him often. I don't understand the triangulation stuff. It's really teenage behaviour.

[enlighten me]

My exgf was a massive flirt. She used to tell me all the time about getting chatted up.

I think that like nons its very flattering to get the attention but the difference is that if they don't get it then they flirt to get it. Once they have got the attention it is then used to try and avoid being abandoned by their partner by making the partner insecure. It is almost a warning to the partner. "You'd better be good to me because Im desired so can easily replace you"

At least that is how it always felt to me.

[BacknthSaddle]

I was purging all communications between myself and my ex from my phone, email etc last night.

I came across old messages between us way before we were together. She was in a relationship with another guy at the time and on reflection the messages she sent me were totally inappropriate for a platonic relationship. They were flirtatious and escalated over time. "I'm loving you so much", "I love your beautiful heart", "hey beautiful", "I need to see you to get my testosterone injection"? etc... .

When I did see her for hikes, dinner etc, she used to tell me way too much about the relationship she was in and regularly remind me of the fact that she is only with this guy because she cannot be with me.

My replies, texts and in person, were largely restrained but I was also playing a game of sorts and lapping up the attention and adoration of a beautiful woman. She told me that her partner knew about her feelings for me which I now know was absolute bs. I can see how she was Triangulation with me as the third party. I also see how she triangulated with another guy when we were together. He was older, a kind of a father figure, and made no mystery out of the fact that he was "in love" with her. She told me she had feelings for him but they were secondary to the "big love" she felt for me. This in itself was unconvincing and I never bought it. I did not know much about BPD but I knew it was a weird dynamic.

Anyone else experience similar dynamics?

Scaringly similar dynamics here too.  Specifically:

"She was in a relationship with another guy at the time"

"the messages she sent me were totally inappropriate for a platonic relationship"

... . and quite similar quotes in essence

"When I did see her for hikes, dinner etc, she used to tell me way too much about the relationship she was in"

"regularly remind me of the fact that she is only with this guy because she cannot be with me"

(well sorta, she admitted she is confused and that she really wants to be with me but eventually decided to stay with her bf and keep seeing me as a close friend, and continue flirting)

"I was also playing a game of sorts and lapping up the attention and adoration of a beautiful woman"

"She told me that her partner knew about her feelings for me"

(I actually believe her on that.  I've met him and he seemed to know we're close friends, though it seems like our r/s made him break up from her eventually - and that's when things really started going south)

"I can see how she was Triangulation with me as the third party."

Oh yeah

"I also see how she triangulated with another guy when we were together."

I kept feeling this way with her as she always seemed to make sure she has a backup.

"He was older, a kind of a father figure"

Yup.  And after the b/u she keeps Triangulation father figures with young studs.  (Now that I think of it, I might have been the father figure, or maybe an odd one  )

I can see clearly how Triangulation played out right from the start.

Knowing what i know now, I would never have allowed myself to even get past the early idealization phase.

Went I went over our chat history I saw an early message from me after the second or third time we've met that I'm scared by the intensity of feelings I have for her since the minute we've met and that's inappropriate given she's in a relationship.  So I wanted to keep a safe distance.  To that she replied that of course I'm entitled to do that but it seems too extreme to her and she wants to remain friends.  I was tempted by her siren voice and got on the slippery slope.

So much of this bears striking similarity to my own relationship that it pains me to even read it. 

[AG]

OK I got it now. I better understand the word triangulation now. With that said I have witnessed it from my ex trying to do it to me with her father. She would attempt to get me to bad mouth her father with her. That would never work though but it would work on him for me. I just would keep saying"I dont know what your looking for Im not going to bad mouth your father as I believe family is important and at the end of the day he is your father"... . WOW come to think of it the most obvious and more recent one was after the last few hospitalizations. I had been calling her phone over and over worried because she texted me a suicide note stating she loved me and her family but was going to end it. Her father picked up and told me she was in the hospital again and we talked for a while about her in a very civil conversation. Prior to that her father was pretty much an ass to me. Anyhow when I finally got in contact with my ex at the hospital she tried to triangulate stating that her father hates me. I then said "thats ok babe he doesnt have to like me or love me as long as he loves you Im ok with that". She had no idea that I already had spoke with her father in a civil manner he even somewhat apologized for being a ass to me. He never really said he was sorry but he did say "You know what I realize that when I get into my daughters relationships I get burned". Even though he didn't really give me a real apology I could sense that it was his way of saying I had no idea that she was this f***** up and I know now that it is not your fault. Prior to that with her first hospitalization he treated me horribly and indirectly blamed me and took many cheap shots a me that I kept sucking up and holding myself back from exploding on him for fear of damaging theyre relationship. More evidence of him knowing first hand was when he was painted black during the last hospital incident and she told me over the phone that he is an idiot and that he yelled at her saying "You need to stop worrying about your bird and start worrying about how to stop ruining peoples lives, and Id appreciate it if you told me about your darker side instead of keeping it from me". I again deflected any badmouthing she wanted me to engage in with her father. I actually have never bad mouthed him except for him not even knowing about it as when I vented the way he treated me I reallly and I mean really wanted to let his ass have it.



To be honest though how could I even blame him where does he get his opinion of me from?From her triangulation bullish. She knew my value system with family as we spoke about it. SHe knew damn well I was old school with it and would ask for a fathers permission to get married. I was raised to be careful around your girlfriends family and always be respectful. She played of my value system lovely. SMH

This all let me know she did that triangulation technique to play her father against her mother. She also did it the opposite way around. Her mother was painted the bad guy to her father and his girlfriend and during this last hospital incident I noticed there was a part when her mother was more active in it then her father. I can guarantee at that point she was playing off her mom to bad mouth the father.

OMFG I cannot say it enough I really cannot believe these type of people exist I really never will.

[waverider]

Reported conversations past to and fro go through the BPD filter twice. eg you say something pwBPD reports a twisted version to the other person who reacts to this twisted tale. Their reaction (based on false info) is then reported back to you by the pwBPD and twisted again on the way through. Is it any wonder the participants end up being polarized?

Even when you are aware of it there is difficulty in not believing that there must be something to it. Between partners and parents is a very common one. I struggle with this one.

[BacknthSaddle]

I feel like the two things being described are not totally dissimilar and that "triangulation," while properly defined as waverider does, can exist on a "spectrum" to some degree.  My ex and the man she was with when I met her did not know each other, but we certainly knew about each other.  He managed to get in touch with me on a few occasions in a not-so-pleasant way, and the (far too intimate) things she told me about their relationship definitely led me to act in such a way as to disrupt their relationship.  She was definitely the victim, he the perpetrator, and me the rescuer in this dynamic.  Although this is not properly speaking "triangulation," it certainly strikes me as being of the same species.  Certainly what some people here are describing (being told about and compared to previous exs) are more like simple manipulative power plays.  But others, while not describing proper triangulation, are describing set-ups that come from the same place. 

[BacknthSaddle]

I would add: one should consider it a red flag when one sees that there is frequent triangulation within the family of the prospective partner.  Triangulation between parents and siblings, between siblings and other siblings, between siblings and in-laws... . all of these are probably signs that triangulation is a fundamental dynamic within this person's life, and that thus probably that person should be avoided.

[Danie14]

When I met my H he was freshly divorced…and it was all her fault, of course. According to him she was just a nut case, crazy, obsessive, whacked out, drug addict…didn't work, stole, told horrible stories about him to his parents…lots of nutty stuff. At first I took it as, yea, just hating on the ex…as many people do, venting etc. I listened but couldn’t really say much because I didn’t know her, never met her, know none of her people, etc. How could I even form an opinion? I couldn’t.

As time went by his family confirmed his stories…well, some of them….like the calling his parents and telling horrible stories about him. She has confirmed some of this her own self with her behavior in the past 20 yrs I’ve been with my H. We’ve moved around a bit for work, etc. We always have an unlisted number. She’s called him every place he’s ever lived or worked. She still calls him to this day. She’s called me at my work and has tried to become my friend on social media. I have never met her and have no intention of meeting her... . they have no ties at all, not children together, when he left he said he left everything to her he was done and that was it.

This is why he refuses to go to MC or IC…they went to MC together and he hated it. Nothing good came of it. Etc. He didn’t really get into details of what happened in the MC office and I hate to try and guess. Leads me to a crazy making mind that has no bases in reality that I can ever know

Since we’ve been together he’s had two physical affairs (that I know of) and at least one EA that I know of…and I’d think (if I’m honest with myself) many ONS…

The first affair was within the first year of us dating. I don’t have any idea why I took him back. NO idea. Because I was young and dumb and didn’t want to see what was plain as the nose on my face. It didn’t last long and he begged my forgiveness and did really good for a while (affair wise anyway)…I think…but he drank so much and was gone so much that…yea, even tho I’ll never truly know I know deep inside myself.

His second affair was about 10 yrs ago. Horrible. I wrote a lil bit on it here before…basically he left me when I went to IC (I was burning out) and he left me for a very-very ….very….young girl. She was a nightmare…probably because she was so young…and I know her family and know how she was raised…I feel bad for her because she was just looking for love and thought she found it…but no, she was a pawn for him to hurt me with. I understand that now. I didn’t then.

His emotional affair was with one of his co-workers. I told him what was happening. I told him. He didn’t believe me…or denied it to me…whatever….The night she called him at 3am (drunk) and wanting him to come over to her house was the day I was PISSED to say the least. I said something to him about it…later she called me at work trying to apologize. I wouldn’t accept it from her. She faded into the distance.

Now there’s another girl at his work that he talks an awful lot about. He’s so typically predictable. She’s a ‘damsel in distress’ and he’s just being nice to her. Pfft. But the thing is that I don’t really care. In fact it would be a blessing for me if he would leave me for her…but it would be a nightmare for her…and she’s actually a pretty nice person who’s been thru a lot of bs with her xbf….I’d hate to see her get into a bad situation with him.

Oh, and the drinking was a huge factor for the triangulation for us. He would go out drinking, I’d be upset and yelling or crying at him to stay home, he’d get mean and leave anyway then come home way early in the morning drunk as a skunk and tell me about all these women who wanted him…who he would push away (cuz he’s such a faithful guy, ya know) that this one or that one would be literally grapping his ‘junk’ and….oh, man….sick, is what it is. Him AND me….the sick dysfunctional dance we danced for years…it makes me sick.

[waverider]

I feel like the two things being described are not totally dissimilar and that "triangulation," while properly defined as waverider does, can exist on a "spectrum" to some degree.   

The behavior which drives both of these is the same. pwBPD is indifferent to closing the triangle mpst the time. That is just the destructive consequence of the other parties having an otherwise healthy independent connection.

Most pwBPD behavior is just reactive to what is in front of them. The complex consequences are generally just the inevitable ripples that flow out. Naturally being the centre of drama means there are kinds and variants of these dramas overlapping and interconnected.

What to do about it? just recognize it and dont get drawn into the roles being assigned. Be aware of "ganging up" with the other person and becoming a persecutor "team". The pwBPD will just go find another rescuer to pit against you both. You can't " have it out with them" in attempt to stop it, they will go into denial and find another rescuer to pit against you both.


I tend to try to take the focus away from X did/said XYX, to "why do you allow what ever X does/say affect you so much?' rather than being tricked into validating said action was "evil". The effect the action had is real and visible, what was actually done/said is just hearsay, of which accuracy is in doubt

[Unique135]

My exgf was a massive flirt. She used to tell me all the time about getting chatted up.

I think that like nons its very flattering to get the attention but the difference is that if they don't get it then they flirt to get it. Once they have got the attention it is then used to try and avoid being abandoned by their partner by making the partner insecure. It is almost a warning to the partner. "You'd better be good to me because Im desired so can easily replace you"

At least that is how it always felt to me.

Mine even told me, "you better listen to me or else there are so many other women out there for me".  He is still single with all these women available for him... .