Feeling guilty about uBPD Mother

[Attie]

I grew up in a very unstable environment. My earliest memories include: me having to make up dreams every morning, because she'd ask about them and I somehow knew I was in trouble if I told her I couldn't remember. Her storming into my room and asking whether I wanted to stay with my father or with her and that I had to make my decision right now, because they were getting a divorce. Me playing underneath a chest that wasn't closed properly, the lid came off and fell onto my head, my first thought was that my mother had come in from behind and hit me over the head, because there was no other logical explanation.

Later memories include her spitting in my face (the only thing she ever apologised for), her telling me it's my fault her and my father were fighting and that I wanted them to fight, that it was pleasing me.

She sent me to get the divorce papers when they finally did get divorced. I was 19 at that point and still don't understand in which universe it's the child's job to get those papers.

Over two summers when I was around 5 years old we had a child live with us that came from a poor family, some kind of charity thing. He had nosebleeds often, she told him he did it on purpose and started screaming at him and hitting him whenever he had nosebleeds. I remember me trying to help him cover it up.

By that time I was getting slapped across the face quite regularly. I'd say every 3-4 days she was raging and would continuously slap me across the face. Sometimes kick me (much rarer though she had to be really mad for that). It never left a mark.

I remember her starting to rage while cutting vegetables and me just thinking as she was suddenly standing right in front of me with a knife in her hands and darkness in her eyes 'please don't lose that last bit of control you have, please don't lose that last bit of control you have, please don't use that knife'.

I remember her starting to rage in the car and her foot just sitting on the gas and me thinking 'she will drive us into the next tree'.

I told two teachers. Both went to talk with her. I begged both of them not to do it. Both ended up coming back from the talk thinking I'm an attention seeker and liar and her, the perfect mother, doesn't deserve this. I gave up faith in adults at that moment.

Shoes in that corner today, fine. Shoes in that very same corner tomorrow? No way, and how could I not know that's not where they belong? Silent treatments were quite regular as well. I'd see the expression on her face and would know something was wrong. I'd ask her. She wouldn't reply. After asking 5 times she would look at me and say 'if you don't know what you've done, I can't help you!'

Next to physical abuse she'd use emotional abuse. Her favourite word was proletarian. Whoever didn't have a University degree was one. They were stupid and worthless. She would tell me every day. To then, finally, call me a proletarian and making sure I knew exactly what she thought of me.

She always expected me to become a world famous something. Forced me to play the violin every day for at least an hour. Or the piano. Or whatever it was at that time.

My father was mostly just sitting there. He is a psychologist. He knew about the personality disorder because, well, it's obvious and he had a degree in that field. And I guess he thought he could help her? He also thought if he leaves, I'm in this hell alone. He knew back then he would never have gotten custody. He validates my feelings. But he also lost all the joy in his life. He learnt that if he looks forward to something she will destroy it. So, he made sure he's not looking forward to anything ever again. We have an awkward relationship these days. I resent him for not protecting me more. He feels guilty.

My biggest problem was always how good of a person she can be. She was the best mother in the world and then she was the worst mother in the world. She would listen to me, comfort me, give me advice, do amazing things with me and then there'd be a switch and suddenly she was this monster. Whenever I had problems I'd go to her and she'd help and I thought now everything will be better and then a few days later she'd use those problems I went to her with to rage against me and I swore to never trust her again. But as a child, you can't help but try and trust your mother and she would hurt me over and over and over again.

I went low contact as soon as I could but there would always be moments when she would rage again. I went no contact for a year and then tried again. And the rages were happening again. Her screaming at me. Me telling her not to. Her telling me if I listened to her she wouldn't have to scream.

She never kept a job. Bosses were after here, didn't like her, coworkers were trying to ruin her reputation or make her look bad. She was always paranoid. I'm not allowed to use her name on the phone in public because someone could recognise her and make notes. She will probably lose the job she has at the moment as well.

Her family doesn't talk to her anymore, because she started fights and finally they've given up. My father tries sometimes but it usually ends in disaster.

And now this woman is alone. All alone. No friends, no family and her only daughter left her as well. After everything she did for us. After she sacrificed herself for us.

She says my father was the violent one and abused me. She was the perfect mother and did everything for me. She doesn't remember any of the incidents even suggested I might be mentally ill for having such memories. Glad in such moments to have a father who validates my feelings and memories.

She's in therapy for depression because everyone hates her and her life is hard.

I feel so bad for her all alone. I love how much she enjoys when I call her or ask her to come visit me. She lights up. Then she rages. Over something small. And destroys everything. And I can't do this but I feel so guilty for leaving her alone... .

On top of all that I have to deal with my own fleas: Sadly I can start raging for almost nothing as well, sadly little things that are not making me react in any way on a certain day can be the end of the world the next day, sadly I have a lot of buried aggression, fear of abandonment and I'm very much struggling with making sure my relationship is healthy and doesn't turn bad for my partner.

It's a bit much  :'(

[lucyhoneychurch]

Feel bad for little Attie. The slapping of the face, over and over - really, can there be anything much worse, even a full-on battering/assault/beating, than your face being prey to sudden vicious sideways blunt force trauma?

Feel bad for you. Not guilty. Just embrace that child that had to go get her parents' divorce papers. Embrace the child staring at that knife in her mother's hand praying for salvation -

Feel bad for the child inside of you who knew both a mother's love and kindness and suddenly through no fault or action of her own - her mother's wrath, abuse, insanity.

I've got that little girl inside of me still too, at 51.  She speaks up from time to time, maybe bad dreams, maybe when i'm sitting alone somewhere and I see a mom and a daughter out enjoying each other's company... . or meet siblings who are so tight and close and good to each other - she sabotaged that too.

Mourn for what you lost yet rejoice that you are still here and pretty much sane and not giving what you got. 

Many of your comments bubbled up vivid mental images of just the same brutal moments in my life - like we've all seen the same damned awful movie, know the script by heart, and can't shut the projector off.   :'(

I hope your day is good to you.   

[HappyChappy]

Much of what you recount sounds all too familiar. You set the scene well. My mother also spat at me. Like your dad, if I made the mistake of saying I liked it, it was taken away. If I hated it - like piano practice - I was forced to do it  . The long and short, is this is a most appalling way to treat another human, let alone an innocent child. So you should have no guilt  .

We were brought up to respond to guilt and obligation in an unhealthy way – but that can change. My wife tends to get out my photo album as a child. Because in almost every photos, I’m looking scared or shocked. Seeing that in a very young child, helps remind me I owe my BPDm nothing. “Honour your mother” as she would say – well she needs to act like a mother first. Honour and loyalty are mutual, not one way. You have no obligation to take the screaming and raging. None.  

The fact the world has turned its back on your mother due to her appalling behaviour, is entirely her fault. She needs to face the consequence of her actions, not you. If you act like the devil, you deserve to live in hell. Heck I was brought up a Catholic and programmed to feel guilty. But I’m proud to say I no guilt due to turning my back. I truly believe my BPDm and Narcisstic bro will never change their behaviour so there’s no point trying again. I read a post about what a BPD didn’t deny and someone wrote they were proud they didn’t compromise their boundaries whilst their BPD was dying. I total understand that. I also understand that most people would be shocked- but then most people don’t grow up in a War zone. All’s fair in love and War and there was no love in my BPDm.

Sound like you deserve your time and energy far more than you BPDm does. Address your flees, and treat yourself. Take a holiday from thinking about your BPDm. Wishing you the very best.

[Attie]

I hope your day is good to you.   

Thank you and thank you for your kind words

The fact the world has turned its back on your mother due to her appalling behaviour, is entirely her fault. She needs to face the consequence of her actions, not you. If you act like the devil, you deserve to live in hell. Heck I was brought up a Catholic and programmed to feel guilty. But I’m proud to say I no guilt due to turning my back. I truly believe my BPDm and Narcisstic bro will never change their behaviour so there’s no point trying again. I read a post about what a BPD didn’t deny and someone wrote they were proud they didn’t compromise their boundaries whilst their BPD was dying. I total understand that. I also understand that most people would be shocked- but then most people don’t grow up in a War zone. All’s fair in love and War and there was no love in my BPDm.

Thank you for your kind words

My main problem is she seems to not remember anything. So, to her this is completely unacceptable behaviour. She even asked me "what did I do wrong, why do you hate me?" and it pains me that I can never truly reply and tell her what she's done, because when I do tell her, she looks at me so shocked and hurt that I would even think she'd be capable of doing the things she's done.

It can't just be an act? They actually don't remember the rage moments? Or do they? Because if they do then I'd feel far less guilty. It's knowing she's sitting somewhere thinking I've abandoned her after she's done so much for me. And to be honest she has done so much for me in her good moments... .

[Botswana Agate]

My BPD mother has played the "I don't remember" game so many times, it's unreal.  It's hard to know if they truly *do not* remember as a coping mechanism of their own, or if it's a sick game they play to keep us ensnared.  . . who knows.  Maybe if they tell themselves something long enough, they'll believe it--it's better than actually believing the awful things they've done.

With my BPD mom, I'm inclined to think she absolutely knows what she's doing because she's very, very smart.  I have an e-mail and hard copy folder of her cray, and in it are examples of her "I don't remember" comments of some form or another, along with her verbal "I don't remember" comments and other family members saying she didn't "remember" stuff she did.  In fact, she even had her therapist send us kids a letter calling these episodes of not remembering "flashbacks".  WOW, the whole letter was as if it was written by my mother herself. (She's CO, btw.)

So no, PLEASE know it's not you!  If the "not remembering" is a pattern for her, perhaps that can make your healing journey, and boundaries, a little stronger.  Big hugs.  

[lucyhoneychurch]

Attie! hey again!    I think I might have some thoughts that could help, only from a personal standpoint, not because I am any kind of expert... . but then again... . dealing with something or someone for over 40 years - you kinda KNOW.  

You are hung up on if she really thinks you have run away from her. You are struggling to grasp if she feels truly abandoned, not just pretending. You are sad that you might be making your mother feel this way when there *were* some good moments in your life with her.

From everything I've read since I heard the term "borderline personality disorder," I slowly came to realize - when they don't remember, they DO NOT REMEMBER. Sometimes it is the normal human choice to deny a behavior, a lie in other words, just like everybody can do to cover themselves.

In uBPD's cases, what I ever so slowly (I mean it took forever reading here adn basically arguing with folks that she HAD to know as she could turn it off and on around certain people, all that kind of thought process in my head fighting it) ever so slowly learned was that there is the stimulus of, "Attie's not doing what I want... . Attie's telling me she would like to do this this way or that way... . Attie won't run to me when I want her to... . Attie is telling me I am abusive" and so on. So there is a BAD thought in her head about herself. It's triggered by you, either innocently enough as a child just *being* a child, *NEVER* deserving her reactions/responses EVER.

The BAD thought then plunges her back to this abandonment stuff she dealt with as a child when someone or some event left her scarred. Just like we are scarred by them. Yes. In your mother, it makes her go into total panic mode, pretty much the rage, say anything, lie, punch, annihilate acting out.

I've known that my mother snapped when her eyes would look completely void of light, even if we were still standing in the same spot - pffffft, something would switch off and suddenly this very vicious, dangerous person was about ready to take me out - a tiny little girl, even as a teenager. And then of course it was verbal and emotional once I left and had my own family - the same abuse but on a different sector, since she was unable to assault me anymore.

What I am trying to get at is this disassociation that happens when she loses it. Your mother sort of goes elsewhere, she is STILL responsible because when enough people run away from you in your life and tell you the same concerns about your over and over - you go get help. IF you can believe something is wrong with you.

PwBPD, from what I gather finally, think it's the rest of the world. THat is why it's so rare if anyone seeks treatment.  It's not just denial to play the saint or screw us over - it's honestly believing, from when they pretty much check out mentally during these rages, that they are not the problem. YOU are.

I would guess the only proof could be running a video - how many of us do that or could do it or thought to do it? 40 yrs ago that wasn't a possibility, just creeping into the tiniest mental space to steer clear of her was all we could do.

Can you read all through your initial post just now on this thread, see how no matter if she remembers or not, you have no earthly reason to be subjected to such vulgar, awful, hateful, vindictive abuse? NO ONE should treat you like this. The reason you are misfiring on where your pity and guilt should lie is that you are stuck with a mother who wears so many masks. Take away the good mother mask - see how no matter how good that person is, the abusive mother is the one who's really impacted you the most in your life. Wouldn't you agree - how much of your thoughts are tied up and suffocated with the abusive mother rather than the good mother? Your guilt is coming from the few times your good mother is able to rise above the knee jerk instinct of kill or be killed pretty much.

Is any of this making sense? They really really do not know, there is such a disconnect, from when the rage dies down and they lay eyes on us again and they are all purity and light - it used to make me insane - HOW can she flip like that and deny what she just did?

Survival can be a very very dirty business when one feels abandoned and on one's own and threatened - that is who is down inside your mother at the worst of times in the rages - a pathetic tiny little fearful creature ripping out with teeth and claws - feral cat, and I"m not trying to be cruel, think of people trying to capture feral cats to get them to vets - wow, scary stuff. The poor thing is fighting for its life the only way it knows how.

SO ARE WE at this point. When I finally said to myself, years ago, "It's going to be me or her," meaning my sanity my family my life my dreams or HER. Well... . I chose me and mine.   then the war really began. But my banner was, ME MINE.

That's not selfish. That is leaving your mother as an adult to figure out why she keeps trying the same awful thing and it never works - definition of insanity is expecting something different but you're not doing anything different.

Okay, I have lost myself in my thoughts ... . Borderline Mother, have you read that book? find the references on this site, Toxic Parents is another one that opened my eyes and basically read me my rights of... . it's my life, not hers. She does not own my life.  Period. Grab it back, Attie.  

[Botswana Agate]

That was the best explanation, Lucyhoneychurch.  Thank you.  I'm nowhere close to the realizations you are yet.

**I'm sorry, didn't mean to hijack!**

[Attie]

Wow, thank you lucyhoneychurch That was a very important post, thank you!

I so far haven't read any books specifically about the Borderline Mother but just about the BPD itself.

I never had anyone describe the eye thing like you did. But it's exactly how it goes. She would be talking to me and then it would switch and her eyes were pitch black, pure rage, it was absolutely horrifying. But, I knew she had some last bit of control because she never used that knife and never drove us against a tree and she never beat me in a way that it would leave marks for me to show others.

And whenever other people were around she was perfect mother and whenever they left I'd get the rage for everything I had done wrong while we were out or with other people. She never lost it in public. Not once, not even a tiny bit. The car journey back would be silent treatment and me knowing the real rage would come at home.

Part of me wants to tell her what she did. Stand in front of her and tell her how she scarred me, all she did and tell her off for it and then leave. But what's the point if she can't remember and just thinks I'm obviously having delusions and she's never done any of it.

But, you make me think my no contact is a good thing and I should look after myself, I'm responsible for myself, not for her and not for her well being.

[lucyhoneychurch]

Yes I think that's what my run-on post was working at !    You finally being the person you were meant to be, having space and air and a chance to live.

If anyone else under the sun did even one of these things at us as an adult, we'd get so far so fast... . the thing is so much of it was when we were reallly small and weak and defenseless. So we almost have to go back and save that child, pity that child, *empathize* with her - and then take those feelings and actuate them in our lives today. and tomorrow.   

Big hugs to both of you, Attie and Botswana. 

[peaceat54]

Hi everyone,

I was reading this string, it is interesting about the memory, I find it amazing that I was in a leg cast for 2 months in high school freshman year and for some reason my BPD mom would bring up that I said I had a leg cast on when I was younger and it was funny to her that my enstep-dad and her could not remember the cast at all.

Matter of fact they brought that up over Thanks Giving dinner a couple years ago and were laughing and laughing about how funny it was to them that they did not remember, I can't tell you all how that makes me feel, you know maybe like I have no worth, and how that is funny... . So I am not surprised at all when she does not remember beating on me or saying all the horrible things she would say about me, to me or the things she would accuse me of.

I guess this is a common situation for those of us who have someone close to us with this disorder.

Another interesting thing however is that she seems to remember everything someone has done to her, even if it did not happen the way she remembers that it did or even if it did not happen.

I think this is very confusing, unfortunately for me I remember when I have hurt anyone, tell you what I would rather be the one hurt than feel the way I do when I have in fact hurt someone else.

Peaceat54

[Torocat]

I grew up in a very unstable environment. My earliest memories include: me having to make up dreams every morning, because she'd ask about them and I somehow knew I was in trouble if I told her I couldn't remember. Her storming into my room and asking whether I wanted to stay with my father or with her and that I had to make my decision right now, because they were getting a divorce. Me playing underneath a chest that wasn't closed properly, the lid came off and fell onto my head, my first thought was that my mother had come in from behind and hit me over the head, because there was no other logical explanation.

Later memories include her spitting in my face (the only thing she ever apologised for), her telling me it's my fault her and my father were fighting and that I wanted them to fight, that it was pleasing me.

She sent me to get the divorce papers when they finally did get divorced. I was 19 at that point and still don't understand in which universe it's the child's job to get those papers.

Over two summers when I was around 5 years old we had a child live with us that came from a poor family, some kind of charity thing. He had nosebleeds often, she told him he did it on purpose and started screaming at him and hitting him whenever he had nosebleeds. I remember me trying to help him cover it up.

By that time I was getting slapped across the face quite regularly. I'd say every 3-4 days she was raging and would continuously slap me across the face. Sometimes kick me (much rarer though she had to be really mad for that). It never left a mark.

I remember her starting to rage while cutting vegetables and me just thinking as she was suddenly standing right in front of me with a knife in her hands and darkness in her eyes 'please don't lose that last bit of control you have, please don't lose that last bit of control you have, please don't use that knife'.

I remember her starting to rage in the car and her foot just sitting on the gas and me thinking 'she will drive us into the next tree'.

I told two teachers. Both went to talk with her. I begged both of them not to do it. Both ended up coming back from the talk thinking I'm an attention seeker and liar and her, the perfect mother, doesn't deserve this. I gave up faith in adults at that moment.

Shoes in that corner today, fine. Shoes in that very same corner tomorrow? No way, and how could I not know that's not where they belong? Silent treatments were quite regular as well. I'd see the expression on her face and would know something was wrong. I'd ask her. She wouldn't reply. After asking 5 times she would look at me and say 'if you don't know what you've done, I can't help you!'

Next to physical abuse she'd use emotional abuse. Her favourite word was proletarian. Whoever didn't have a University degree was one. They were stupid and worthless. She would tell me every day. To then, finally, call me a proletarian and making sure I knew exactly what she thought of me.

She always expected me to become a world famous something. Forced me to play the violin every day for at least an hour. Or the piano. Or whatever it was at that time.

My father was mostly just sitting there. He is a psychologist. He knew about the personality disorder because, well, it's obvious and he had a degree in that field. And I guess he thought he could help her? He also thought if he leaves, I'm in this hell alone. He knew back then he would never have gotten custody. He validates my feelings. But he also lost all the joy in his life. He learnt that if he looks forward to something she will destroy it. So, he made sure he's not looking forward to anything ever again. We have an awkward relationship these days. I resent him for not protecting me more. He feels guilty.

My biggest problem was always how good of a person she can be. She was the best mother in the world and then she was the worst mother in the world. She would listen to me, comfort me, give me advice, do amazing things with me and then there'd be a switch and suddenly she was this monster. Whenever I had problems I'd go to her and she'd help and I thought now everything will be better and then a few days later she'd use those problems I went to her with to rage against me and I swore to never trust her again. But as a child, you can't help but try and trust your mother and she would hurt me over and over and over again.

I went low contact as soon as I could but there would always be moments when she would rage again. I went no contact for a year and then tried again. And the rages were happening again. Her screaming at me. Me telling her not to. Her telling me if I listened to her she wouldn't have to scream.

She never kept a job. Bosses were after here, didn't like her, coworkers were trying to ruin her reputation or make her look bad. She was always paranoid. I'm not allowed to use her name on the phone in public because someone could recognise her and make notes. She will probably lose the job she has at the moment as well.

Her family doesn't talk to her anymore, because she started fights and finally they've given up. My father tries sometimes but it usually ends in disaster.

And now this woman is alone. All alone. No friends, no family and her only daughter left her as well. After everything she did for us. After she sacrificed herself for us.

She says my father was the violent one and abused me. She was the perfect mother and did everything for me. She doesn't remember any of the incidents even suggested I might be mentally ill for having such memories. Glad in such moments to have a father who validates my feelings and memories.

She's in therapy for depression because everyone hates her and her life is hard.

I feel so bad for her all alone. I love how much she enjoys when I call her or ask her to come visit me. She lights up. Then she rages. Over something small. And destroys everything. And I can't do this but I feel so guilty for leaving her alone... .

On top of all that I have to deal with my own fleas: Sadly I can start raging for almost nothing as well, sadly little things that are not making me react in any way on a certain day can be the end of the world the next day, sadly I have a lot of buried aggression, fear of abandonment and I'm very much struggling with making sure my relationship is healthy and doesn't turn bad for my partner.

It's a bit much  :'(

Wow, Attie. I understand. At 45 years old, mother has done the same to me.  She has taught you to fear abandonment, almost as if she has set out to make you feel exactly as she does. She wants to remake you into her image, bring you to her level, then she's a happy camper once you break down. THAT IS WHAT VALIDATES HER, when she drives others loony. It is threatening to her that you recognize the unhealthy relationship patterns she has taught you and she feels abandoned once you begin to reject that sick way of relating to others.

I understand the aggression and anger. For me, that has given way to depression. I know what you say because I live it every day. You have to fight for your life, your sanity and your joy.   But don't tell your mother about that joy because she will try to take it from you.

I totally understand when you say she remembers your childhood much differently than you do. It is indeed nice when you ask others who were there and they validate your version. I once told my mom it traumatized me to witness my step dad beating her up every time he drank (often). She immediately invalidated that by claiming my brother said it didn't traumatize him. He lied because he didn't want to get into a emotional "thing" with her. But she was satisfied I was wrong.

Isn't it funny how they like to accuse you of being mentally ill, to GASLIGHT you?  After one of her rages, I tried to calm her and suggested we seek counseling together. She said I needed to see a shrink and get meds, not her. She has also suggested her life was ruined by my hyperactivity as a child.

Ironically, I just started on meds and will be seeing a shrink soon. However, I am nice enough to not say "mom, anyone close to you will eventually end up estranged from you, on drugs or anxiety/depression meds, jail, county mental health or driving off a cliff." She smokes pot but I am the one who needs it!

Hang in there sweetie. We're all in this funny farm together. I think the guilt you feel is based on pity for her. I pity my pathetic waif  mom too, but I feel no guilt even though there is immense pressure for me to feel guilty over the boundaries I have drawn.  Your mom wants you to feel guilt so she can weave you back into her web, then poison you again. Don't do it. Just be acquaintances. She will destroy you unless you find a way to detach, even if that means seeking professional help (not dad).

And remember you have a support system here. We are all on your side.

[Torocat]

Lucy, I have got to say, you are such an awesome commenter. You are extremely articulate, and quite sane considering your mother. 

Attie! hey again!    I think I might have some thoughts that could help, only from a personal standpoint, not because I am any kind of expert... . but then again... . dealing with something or someone for over 40 years - you kinda KNOW.  

You are hung up on if she really thinks you have run away from her. You are struggling to grasp if she feels truly abandoned, not just pretending. You are sad that you might be making your mother feel this way when there *were* some good moments in your life with her.

From everything I've read since I heard the term "borderline personality disorder," I slowly came to realize - when they don't remember, they DO NOT REMEMBER. Sometimes it is the normal human choice to deny a behavior, a lie in other words, just like everybody can do to cover themselves.

In uBPD's cases, what I ever so slowly (I mean it took forever reading here adn basically arguing with folks that she HAD to know as she could turn it off and on around certain people, all that kind of thought process in my head fighting it) ever so slowly learned was that there is the stimulus of, "Attie's not doing what I want... . Attie's telling me she would like to do this this way or that way... . Attie won't run to me when I want her to... . Attie is telling me I am abusive" and so on. So there is a BAD thought in her head about herself. It's triggered by you, either innocently enough as a child just *being* a child, *NEVER* deserving her reactions/responses EVER.

The BAD thought then plunges her back to this abandonment stuff she dealt with as a child when someone or some event left her scarred. Just like we are scarred by them. Yes. In your mother, it makes her go into total panic mode, pretty much the rage, say anything, lie, punch, annihilate acting out.

I've known that my mother snapped when her eyes would look completely void of light, even if we were still standing in the same spot - pffffft, something would switch off and suddenly this very vicious, dangerous person was about ready to take me out - a tiny little girl, even as a teenager. And then of course it was verbal and emotional once I left and had my own family - the same abuse but on a different sector, since she was unable to assault me anymore.

What I am trying to get at is this disassociation that happens when she loses it. Your mother sort of goes elsewhere, she is STILL responsible because when enough people run away from you in your life and tell you the same concerns about your over and over - you go get help. IF you can believe something is wrong with you.

PwBPD, from what I gather finally, think it's the rest of the world. THat is why it's so rare if anyone seeks treatment.  It's not just denial to play the saint or screw us over - it's honestly believing, from when they pretty much check out mentally during these rages, that they are not the problem. YOU are.

I would guess the only proof could be running a video - how many of us do that or could do it or thought to do it? 40 yrs ago that wasn't a possibility, just creeping into the tiniest mental space to steer clear of her was all we could do.

Can you read all through your initial post just now on this thread, see how no matter if she remembers or not, you have no earthly reason to be subjected to such vulgar, awful, hateful, vindictive abuse? NO ONE should treat you like this. The reason you are misfiring on where your pity and guilt should lie is that you are stuck with a mother who wears so many masks. Take away the good mother mask - see how no matter how good that person is, the abusive mother is the one who's really impacted you the most in your life. Wouldn't you agree - how much of your thoughts are tied up and suffocated with the abusive mother rather than the good mother? Your guilt is coming from the few times your good mother is able to rise above the knee jerk instinct of kill or be killed pretty much.

Is any of this making sense? They really really do not know, there is such a disconnect, from when the rage dies down and they lay eyes on us again and they are all purity and light - it used to make me insane - HOW can she flip like that and deny what she just did?

Survival can be a very very dirty business when one feels abandoned and on one's own and threatened - that is who is down inside your mother at the worst of times in the rages - a pathetic tiny little fearful creature ripping out with teeth and claws - feral cat, and I"m not trying to be cruel, think of people trying to capture feral cats to get them to vets - wow, scary stuff. The poor thing is fighting for its life the only way it knows how.

SO ARE WE at this point. When I finally said to myself, years ago, "It's going to be me or her," meaning my sanity my family my life my dreams or HER. Well... . I chose me and mine.   then the war really began. But my banner was, ME MINE.

That's not selfish. That is leaving your mother as an adult to figure out why she keeps trying the same awful thing and it never works - definition of insanity is expecting something different but you're not doing anything different.

Okay, I have lost myself in my thoughts ... . Borderline Mother, have you read that book? find the references on this site, Toxic Parents is another one that opened my eyes and basically read me my rights of... . it's my life, not hers. She does not own my life.  Period. Grab it back, Attie.  

[Attie]

Hang in there sweetie. We're all in this funny farm together. I think the guilt you feel is based on pity for her. I pity my pathetic waif  mom too, but I feel no guilt even though there is immense pressure for me to feel guilty over the boundaries I have drawn.  Your mom wants you to feel guilt so she can weave you back into her web, then poison you again. Don't do it. Just be acquaintances. She will destroy you unless you find a way to detach, even if that means seeking professional help (not dad).

And remember you have a support system here. We are all on your side.

I've been thinking about professional help a lot. So far I've decided not to because I don't want to go through all my memories and I have no interest in re-living the trauma in therapy... . maybe I should, but I don't feel strong enough. However, I do have very bad coping mechanisms with negative emotions, so I maybe should.

[slayer]

Late to the game.

Thanks for your posts.  I see a lot of the conflict that I've faced over the years echoed in your comments.

lucyhoneychurch, thank you for your post.

[sophiegirl]

Hi attie,

I too have thought about therapy but also worry about dragging up old hurts, I also think that I was trained to keep so many things secret about her from such an early age that I can't let go of them.

My mother also remembers my childhood differently and will laugh at things that for me were really upsetting. My worst memory is being given a kitten which I fed everyday and loved to bits. So after a year or so my mother had her put down and laughed and still laughs when she recalls how much I cried. She rarely laughs otherwise.

Unfortunately I accepted many things as normal parental behaviour, however having my own children and knowing the feeling that you would do ANYTHING to protect them, I realise what a sick person she really is.

Let us know how things progress Attie

[Attie]

My mother also remembers my childhood differently and will laugh at things that for me were really upsetting. My worst memory is being given a kitten which I fed everyday and loved to bits. So after a year or so my mother had her put down and laughed and still laughs when she recalls how much I cried. She rarely laughs otherwise.

Wow, that is a whole new level of sucking in my opinion. It's like they don't understand that they hurt us and in some twisted way actually like hurting others... .:-/

[HappyChappy]

I would recommend Therapy, help me. They bring out the memories in a controled way, mine went at my speed (slower the better as it was pay by the hour). I had Cognitive Therapy, so not sure about the others types. 

Sorry to hear about the kitten. My BPDm laughs about the time she dropped me as a baby and my pathetic attempt to run away aged 12. Do they remember or mean to do it ? From what I've read sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. They certainly mean to get narcisstic supply and don't care about the consequences. They certainly believe themselves superior, which in their minds justifies taking a pound of our flesh, just to quench their thirst for one drop of blood.

To weave the elaborate lies they do, you need an extremely good memory. My BPD has a selective memory, based on whatever point she wants to make. But a knife in the gut by mistake does as much damage as one on purpose. So personally I don’t care what they think or say they remember, it’s what they do that matters. 

[blubee]

I am unfamiliar with some of these terms I see on this forum.  I have a lot of learn here.  My mother was not the physically abusive, rageful type Borderline that I am reading from what all of you went through.  My issues with her does not compare in the slightest.  My father was the jeckll and hyde, "I love you I hate you" borderline though.  And I am getting ready to have stage 2 therapy in regards to him.  We will see how it goes.  I am so grateful for everyone being so brave to talk about it.  I am learning so much.