nothing compares

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I was drinking a sip of coffee and a thought of her child like wonder and how happy it made her when I did something sweet for her.  I just don't know nothing compares.  I know we say they say the same things to each person but I really think mine was letting a lot of her façade down with me and I was seeing a lot of the real her. 

A lot of our relationship was based around not having to put on a show and to be our true inner dorks that we are afraid of being because everyone expects us to put up a show.  She showed me a lot of vulnerability because of this.  It also pissed me off because she would put on a mask for strangers and "friends."  She even talked about how she felt she had to do that with them.  She showed me her inner crazy world and I loved it.

She was honest with me.  The triangulation was there it was all there but so was the honesty so it didn't bother me.  She trusted me. She kept trying to draw me into the karpman triangle but I would tell her the bad guy wasn't bad who was her dad.  She was making steps to break out of the triangle even, it was blowing her dads mind.  Her dad really liked me because of all this.  I wasn't trying to be her therapist at all.  She really began to trust me on a level I don't think she had ever with anyone before.  It was just about trust, her trust of me and me not playing the game and pointing out the game to her when she tried to play it and expressing disapproval had her trying other ways of being.

Maybe their is no other way it could have possibly ended maybe not.  It is a spectrum and I think she is on the healthier side of the spectrum.  Ive been around a few of pwBPD and she is a special one a gem among them.  At the same time is when she hangs around narcs she falls deep into the disorder. What I had with mine was special.  probably 80% of my relationships with women in my lives have been with narcs and borderlines.  This one was special.  I also met her shortly after she had been abandoned by her ex and she was doing some self reflecting something I like to do also.

I wasn't trying to rescue her or save her I was just not playing the game and she was growing from it.  Eventually she sucked me into it.

The thing is that feeling I got nothing compares.  NOthing in my life compares to that.  It was like I found the missing piece to the puzzle.  I did she was the missing piece.  What ever it was she provided was what was missing from my life.  I cant hate her for that.  Seeing her changed a different person hurt so bad.  Everytime I feel good I think of her it is sick.  Every moment I have of happiness I am wishing I could share it with her.

She went to rehab and she came back a different person.  I never saw that girl again.  We resumed our relationship but she was a different person brainwashed by the program. All the progress she had made was gone. She put her trust in Narcs again.  I could always tell when she was under their influence of a narc and it was never good she would be deeper into patterns where she would hurt the people who would go to the ends of the earth for her.  sabatoging her relationships with the people that cared the most about her.

This pain is the worst feeling of my life.

[Blimblam]

I was drinking a sip of coffee and a thought of her child like wonder and how happy it made her when I did something sweet for her.  I just don't know nothing compares.  I know we say they say the same things to each person but I really think mine was letting a lot of her façade down with me and I was seeing a lot of the real her. 

A lot of our relationship was based around not having to put on a show and to be our true inner dorks that we are afraid of being because everyone expects us to put up a show.  She showed me a lot of vulnerability because of this.  It also pissed me off because she would put on a mask for strangers and "friends."  She even talked about how she felt she had to do that with them.  She showed me her inner crazy world and I loved it.

She was honest with me.  The triangulation was there it was all there but so was the honesty so it didn't bother me.  She trusted me. She kept trying to draw me into the karpman triangle but I would tell her the bad guy wasn't bad who was her dad.  She was making steps to break out of the triangle even, it was blowing her dads mind.  Her dad really liked me because of all this.  I wasn't trying to be her therapist at all.  She really began to trust me on a level I don't think she had ever with anyone before.  It was just about trust, her trust of me and me not playing the game and pointing out the game to her when she tried to play it and expressing disapproval had her trying other ways of being.

Maybe their is no other way it could have possibly ended maybe not.  It is a spectrum and I think she is on the healthier side of the spectrum.  Ive been around a few of pwBPD and she is a special one a gem among them.  At the same time is when she hangs around narcs she falls deep into the disorder. What I had with mine was special.  probably 80% of my relationships with women in my lives have been with narcs and borderlines.  This one was special.  I also met her shortly after she had been abandoned by her ex and she was doing some self reflecting something I like to do also.

I wasn't trying to rescue her or save her I was just not playing the game and she was growing from it.  Eventually she sucked me into it.

The thing is that feeling I got nothing compares.  NOthing in my life compares to that.  It was like I found the missing piece to the puzzle.  I did she was the missing piece.  What ever it was she provided was what was missing from my life.  I cant hate her for that.  Seeing her changed a different person hurt so bad.  Everytime I feel good I think of her it is sick.  Every moment I have of happiness I am wishing I could share it with her.

She went to rehab and she came back a different person.  I never saw that girl again.  We resumed our relationship but she was a different person brainwashed by the program. All the progress she had made was gone. She put her trust in Narcs again.  I could always tell when she was under their influence of a narc and it was never good she would be deeper into patterns where she would hurt the people who would go to the ends of the earth for her.  sabatoging her relationships with the people that cared the most about her.

This pain is the worst feeling of my life.

[LostGhost]

I can echo your sentiments. Today marks exactly one month of no contact now, almost two months since end of relationship. I'm in a better place mentally and physically than I was weeks ago but I'm having a hard time "moving on". Most of the time I think about that concept, I run the other way. It feels like moving on from her is moving away from myself. We brought out the best in each other. I was able to just let go of my inhibitions and be a crazy child in her presence and likewise for her. We sang together, danced in public, rolled around in the street in the middle of the night like the scene from the Notebook. There's just a vast emptiness occupying my soul right now.

She seems happy when I hear her at work, laughing without a care in the world. But I know what she's like because she shared her innermost secrets with me. She let me into that world, made herself vulnerable to me. I think if I'd bee aware of what BPD was I would have made a concerted effort to be gentler with my words and my ways. I don't think I'll ever hear from her again. I appear to be painted black. She's back with her ex now. She's being a chameleon too, changing her hair colour and style to suit his tastes.

I don't let my pain show. But I'm also not running around the office laughing and being happy like her. I wonder if she enjoys my suffering somehow. More than likely she doesn't think about it or care. Despite having many hobbie, friends and exercising every single day and being in great physical shape... . I'm sick. I'm sick because I'm desperately craving a recycle.

I've had a few days where I'm angry finally. Angry about what she's done, how I've been discarded so casually like unwanted refuse. There's usually only one phase after anger in the healing process. And yet I love that girl so much. Too much. I really miss our dances and singing, our pure laughter. We had our own world together. Now it's just me.

[Blimblam]

I really don't think it would have been impossible to work.

But only if I had dealt with all of my own inner core issues. They exist though and they surfaced.  Dealing with the trauma of this shame is extremely difficult.  It was set in motion a pattern of self destruction instilled in me from the age of 3 and conditioned my entire life while being around my step mom.

[LostGhost]

You're definitely not alone feeling that way blim. I think the majority of people on these boards have gone through the self blame game. The further I learn about this however, the more I realize it was just sand through the hourglass. None of us could predict when our time would be up.  Some of us lasted longer than others, some of us lost more and sacrificed more than others. But I think inevitably we all ended up in the same place, scratching our heads wondering what we'd done wrong, what we could've done better. I don't believe there's an answer for that, just a fantasy. Maybe in another life where they don't have BPD.

[Blimblam]

lostghoast,

I don't blame myself.  If I blame anything it is the system that creates the envorinment. We are products of our envorinment.  I have core issues because my family.  I cant just blame them because they are damaged from trauma too.  It is systemic our society is one of musical chairs when their are enough chairs for everyone.  

We each need to take personal responsibility and the only way I see that is through healing.  :)oing what it takes to heal.  If you look at society as a whole it seems to have A cluster B disorder.

If anything pisses me off it is the positivity movement, it is shallow and self righteous.  I see cluster Bs love it because its fits in with their mindset of projecting and disassociating.  These types of cultural conditioning are like cluster B on a massive scale.  Indeed the early funding for such types of propaganda where funded by the likes of the ultra rich backing authors like Napolean Hill. 

[Narellan]

Same blimblam I felt that with my ex as well. The little things I did that he teared up about kill me to think of. Little things like giving his mum a small succulent cactus for her garden which was nothing to me, but he teared up and said that's the nicest thing anyone's ever done. And saying I'd check on his folks while he was away brought him to tears and he said how much I meant to him to do that for him. Random acts of kindness he didn't understand.

He said he was learning so much from me. And that without even knowing it I'd helped him deal with things he's been battling his whole life alone with. BPD issues maybe?

I saw the real him and loved him. I believe that's what he couldn't deal with emotionally.

It's these childlike and very real vulnerable moments that cause so much pain when they cross my mind. If only he could be this person all the time, but he can't.

It kills me too. So much profound sadness around these very real expressions of love.

And then the split where he calls me desperate and an alcoholic and tries to f my best friend.

It's the most brutal betrayal and devastation I've ever experienced.

It's been several months and things are getting a bit easier but I still cry everyday and I really doubt that heartbreak will ever totally go away. I think I've been severely damaged and I feel shattered.

[Blimblam]

Same blimblam I felt that with my ex as well. The little things I did that he teared up about kill me to think of. Little things like giving his mum a small succulent cactus for her garden which was nothing to me, but he teared up and said that's the nicest thing anyone's ever done. And saying I'd check on his folks while he was away brought him to tears and he said how much I meant to him to do that for him. Random acts of kindness he didn't understand.

He said he was learning so much from me. And that without even knowing it I'd helped him deal with things he's been battling his whole life alone with. BPD issues maybe?

I saw the real him and loved him. I believe that's what he couldn't deal with emotionally.

It's these childlike and very real vulnerable moments that cause so much pain when they cross my mind. If only he could be this person all the time, but he can't.

It kills me too. So much profound sadness around these very real expressions of love.

And then the split where he calls me desperate and an alcoholic and tries to f my best friend.

It's the most brutal betrayal and devastation I've ever experienced.

It's been several months and things are getting a bit easier but I still cry everyday and I really doubt that heartbreak will ever totally go away. I think I've been severely damaged and I feel shattered.

naraleen,

I agree these moments were real.  I have never seen someone so vulnerable.  She is the product of her environment.  It is sad.  I also saw things that were a façade. She just has a really terrible set of coping mechanisms.  I have seen part of her she cant even remember because the disorder will not allow her. seeing her on psychadelics and facing her trauma gave me a rare glimpse into the heart of the disorder.  I saw the epiphany of love and the split happen in front of my eyes.  I saw the shame of the realization of how she would react in the future.  She warned me.  I didn't understand.  Briefly she trusted me completely.  Through this trust she transcended the disorder and faced her actions the shame and dread was profound.  she was brutally honest.  she owned her actions.  Though she was stuck as the abandoned child when dealing with these issues. Everything that led up to this was a mix of the façade and the real with idealization in the mix.  She was her weirdest self with me. She lied to me a bunch to isolate me.  She wanted to keep me for herself.


man I am sorry your tried to f your best friend that is brutal!  Mine didn't want to hurt me.  she distanced her self and lied a bunch to not hurt me.  She didn't want to lose me I think because she wanted me back eventually.  Trying to get answers from her triggered her and she hurt me dearly for it.

[Blimblam]

I don't even know how to describe it.  This feeling is so incredibly powerful.  I have had moments of self realization upon months of meditation in isolation and this feeling is more powerful than that.  This feeling overpowers me. I tremble in its presence. It brings me to my knees.

[sea_of_wounds]

All of these stories are hitting home so hard.  So many things shared I experienced, too---the little things, the child-like wonder, the tears, the vulnerability, the magical little world, just the two of us, in a secret, beautiful place----of poetry, art, music, and what I thought was---love.

Something I keep telling myself is that all those beautiful things---if they really weren't authentic for her, they were for me.  I can take them with me, I can own them, I can cherish them, even if she chooses to discard them like yesterday's trash.  The memories I have are real, meaningful, and bathed in love---she cannot throw that away, ever.

In all of our cases, everyone posting here, we were half of that equation--and maybe the whole of it---if there was no true sincerity or genuine reciprocity.  That means the power of our love, our creativity, our joy---we were bringing all of that to the moment, each and every time.  The tears we saw in the other, the wonder, the laughter---we brought the love and sincerity to it that they themselves may not have been able to achieve on their own---not without our empathy and deep love providing a place for that to live and be real---to US--even if for them, it was just fleeting, just a momentary high, something to fill the gaping hole.

There are people who exist who want this delightful, exciting, playful, living, growing, authentic, gleeful, profound kind of romance and connection.  I know I do---everyone on this board did with their loved one who just couldn't reciprocate---

And we want it with a true, deep, back-and-forth flow of sweetness.  No walls, no barriers, no on/off, no masks, no devaluing and discarding.  No rages.  No cold shoulders.  No fakery.  No lies.  No betrayal, no soul-shattering cruelty.

Just real, just human, just soft, kind, giving, willing, growing, humble, earnest, trying, forgiving, authentic, consistent, stable, heart-felt, heart-healing, love.

I wish so much they could have been consistently that beautiful person we so clearly see is there, buried in the pathology that will never let them be free... . And would never let us be free... . free to love as we so deeply wanted to, and did, until the pain just tore it all apart.

Feeling the horrible pain, wishing I never woke up from the dream into the nightmare... . but knowing it was inevitable.

[Ventus2ct]

I echo all that has been said above, the vulnerability of the person, this appears in most of the posts. Mine showed this side, it seemed so "pure" so childlike and so innocent and in complete contrast to the rest of her but it was there, I sensed it, never verbally but in mannerisms and actions, the way she walked, like a child around a playground.

Almost delicate and aloof.

I think this is what I was trying to get through to with mine, what drove me on, what made me reduce all boundaries in the hope of reconciliation. I sensed it was the inner her, but alas I would try to reach into her and connect with that side of her but I never could, I was just a spectator to it, instead having to deal with the rest of her, the hurt, messed up, using, her.

I also am at the stage of dreaming about a recyle, my next fix but very much doubt it'll happen now, not had a peep out of her in 2 months NC, suspect she's moved on.

It has been a real life changing event for me, it'll take a considerable amount of time to understand, learn and change my ways and move on.

When we have all been through this style of relationship, will normal ever be enough? This scares me the most.

[Blimblam]

I echo all that has been said above, the vulnerability of the person, this appears in most of the posts. Mine showed this side, it seemed so "pure" so childlike and so innocent and in complete contrast to the rest of her but it was there, I sensed it, never verbally but in mannerisms and actions, the way she walked, like a child around a playground.

Almost delicate and aloof.

I think this is what I was trying to get through to with mine, what drove me on, what made me reduce all boundaries in the hope of reconciliation. I sensed it was the inner her, but alas I would try to reach into her and connect with that side of her but I never could, I was just a spectator to it, instead having to deal with the rest of her, the hurt, messed up, using, her.

I also am at the stage of dreaming about a recyle, my next fix but very much doubt it'll happen now, not had a peep out of her in 2 months NC, suspect she's moved on.

It has been a real life changing event for me, it'll take a considerable amount of time to understand, learn and change my ways and move on.

When we have all been through this style of relationship, will normal ever be enough? This scares me the most.

maybe its better you didn't venus.  It is why I fear nothing will ever compare.  We inhabited that world together it rose up around us like a kingdom.  I am as responsible as she yet I feel things she never will.  She brought that side of me out to play.  I have that childlike aspect in me also.  Why I think I may be the lonely child schema. 

[Narellan]

Quote "man I am sorry your tried to f your best friend that is brutal!  Mine didn't want to hurt me.  she distanced her self and lied a bunch to not hurt me.  She didn't want to lose me I think because she wanted me back eventually.  Trying to get answers from her triggered her and she hurt me dearly for it. "

For the most part my ex didnt want to hurt me. He said he'd never hurt me. It wasn't until we split for the final time that he came out all guns blazing. And he knew that by pursuing her he'd get a response from me.

After the split he did this:

A month after our split he posted pics on fb of us kissing and cuddling

I gave no response.

A week later he posted a nude pic of me.

I called and asked him to delete which he did. Brief phone call .

Then he arranges to fly back to my hometown to take photos of my best friend to put on FB .

She agreed then cancelled saying I might find out.

He deletes her from FB .

I gave no response.

He contacts my sister via FB and abuses her for interfering in our relationship.

I gave no response .

He comes to my door days after this but I wasn't home. My son told him that.

I kept NC.

He posted a photo of my exbest friend on FB.

I gave no response.

Nothing now for a month.

I saw a photo of him and didn't recognise him. He looks so dysregulated and weird.

It made me feel really sad for him despite all the crazy behaviour to get my attention.

I think he's given up now.

I hope so because I don't have the strength to deal with his suffering on top of my own.

I have cut ties with my best friend and had NC with her for a couple of months.

It's been truly devastating as all my social network was with her. I've stopped going everywhere and anywhere other than work.

I'm humiliated.

[Blimblam]

narallan,

I see.    it is so hurtful how they can react.  I told mine ill miss her after I decided she wouldn't stop hurting me.  A few days later I get a facebook share about late night banana fights.  So I guess she fd more than one guy at once and wanted to use that to hurt me.  I was on the verge of being recycled.  Although she was testing me hard with triangulation and all kinds of little things to hurt me.  While we were hanging out male friends of hers were stopping by and all kind of things she knew were special between me and her she offered to them just to hurt me. She trivialized me in front of them like I was blind just really hurtful stuff.

I decided I wouldn't put up with that crap.

I remember what she put her other ex through before me she really loved.  she made out with me in front of him.  I didn't want to but she made me feel insecure so I did.

despite all of that nothing compares to what we had in the beginning. 

[Narellan]

  back to you. I felt my most intimate with him days before our split. We had a push pull tumultuous start but had just had 5 days holiday interstate together a couple of days before our split. It was the closest I've ever been to anyone. That's why the split was/ is so difficult for me. It was like a honeymoon, and then a sudden switch was flicked.

I fear ill be shattered like this forever.

Bad day today. Not for any reason, no trigger. I just long for him.  :'(

[Blimblam]

I fear ill be shattered like this forever.

Bad day today. Not for any reason, no trigger. I just long for him.  :'(

I feel feel like this too.  during the good times this connection was even stronger than my first love which was to a pwBPD.  So much of it was based on being our inner children.  I fear if you cant have that with "nons" then I don't know.

[bruised]

A week later he posted a nude pic of me.

I called and asked him to delete which he did.

Do you realise what he did is a crime in Australia Narellan? I think you should have called the police instead.

I've stopped going everywhere and anywhere other than work.

I'm humiliated.

Is it the nude picture that you are humiliated about? This guy is a professional photographer. Was it a professionally taken artistic photo, or something that was never meant to be shared publicly? It sounds to me like you are letting this bloke get away with murder.

[Narellan]

Yeah Vulnerabity and childlike in a lot of ways. He just knew how to touch my soul . I'm scared ill never have that again and I'm also scared that I will. Because by opening yourself up completely to someone  means they can destroy you.

[Blimblam]

Yeah Vulnerabity and childlike in a lot of ways. He just knew how to touch my soul . I'm scared ill never have that again and I'm also scared that I will. Because by opening yourself up completely to someone  means they can destroy you.

narellan,

Did it bring out your inner child as well?  and you felt like 2 little kids in a magical kingdom?

Well, if it gives you any kind of solace I am like that and I am not BPD at least I don't think.

[Tolou]

I remember when I bought her flowers for her birthday, I left them in her house with her mom as a surprise so she can receive them when she comes home from work, she called me in tears.  Crying so much, and thanking me for the flowers and how no one has ever done that before.  I felt akward, esoecially when small gestures would bring her to tears, it was very wierd the effect it had on me, it was both a genuine and uncomfortable feeling, becuse she wasn't intially like that, so emotional?

Blim Blam, I have been in a number of relationships, but for me it is true too, nothing compares to those days when I thought this person was someone I can share a long life with. Eventually, it just became so unbearable for me to haveher in my life and the very abandonment she feared from the begining, became a reality, though I had professed it was something I wouldn't do. However, it is in the past and all that remains are the lessons I learned from it all and the growth and self-realization that came after the end of it, which was by my choice.  She didn't do many of the things others have mentioned across the board, but she crossed certain lines that made it almost impossible for me to trust that I have her in my life, be healthy, happy and most of all, just be me.  She wasn't aware of what it means to be loved and return it, it was never material, it was spiritual for me, and her emotional under-development wouldn't allow her to see that, and I couldn't wait for her to grow up, while I became a human-punching bag... . Shame!

[Narellan]

Quote ":)id it bring out your inner child as well?  and you felt like 2 little kids in a magical kingdom?"

YES! On a little bit more of an adult level. It sure was magical. He was a professional photographer and he idealised me so much I felt like a superstar. He photographed me everywhere. I really felt worshipped/ super model. After being in a 22 year marriage with my exh who barely noticed me I just lapped up the attention/ affection on so many levels that I was damaged in.

My exh was aloof and unexpressive. He never told me he loved me. BPD guy told me I was his world, that he'd waited for me his whole life.

It was so magical. Everything was like a dream.

Until it became a nightmare of the worst kind. And a recurring one I can't get out of.

Nobody else mattered. Just the two of us in this magical world minding our own business but connecting on every level I've never been to before. I did so many things with him I have never done before. I felt like I was a teenager in love for the first time, but also that i loved the way he saw the world. He saw beauty in everything and was the kindest person I've ever met.

Then this creep appeared who told me I was so desperate to be in a relationship, and we were only friends and then tried to replace me with my best friend. The humiliation and hurt has cut me to my core. I don't know anything anymore.

Was anything he said real? Like " you're forever entwined in my soul now Narellan", then splits with me and goes months of NC.

I just still don't get it. What was real what was mirroring, who is he? Who did I love so much I would have taken a bullet for?

He lives a few minutes from me with his parents and I just had to pass by his house. He's at home as he always is... . What's he doing/ thinking? Does it ever occur to him how much he's destroyed me?

[Blimblam]

I cant believe I am still alive... I know that sounds strange.  but wow the last 2 months have really been hell.  A living nightmare.

[Changingman]

Blimblam,

You are discribing a Typical BPD RS, I'm saying this in love brother, you are getting lost.

I will refer to my ex

Childlike qualities are arrested development BPD traits ( around 3 to 5 ).

She cannot feel real empathy because her emotions are too chaotic, it's more like sentiment or seeing her own wounds in other people animals etc. when my wants of needs were expressed after the idealisation stage she would not consider them.

Read everything about why they cannot love. They cannot love

The infidelities, both emotional and physical, the triangulations, should be a good indicater that intimacy and trust is a foreign island to her.

The narrative of her life and RSs is already prewritten, I was one of the babysitters/object/actors in Her play. What you did or didn't do was near irrelevant, what was playing her head and emotions was the real RS to her.

It's not other people, it's not the 'system', it's not culture or society, it's not the sun or the moon or what stars are in what house, it's not bad luck, it's not her boss, it's not you, it's not what you did or didn't do. It's just her.

It probably was her mum and dad too, mental illness and PDs run in families.

She was just like me, shared my values, my dreams, my love of dogs and having a family, my love of comedy, my love of music and fun. She shared my empathy for the lost and hurt and could be trusted... .this is called mirroring. She made herself a perfect 'love object'.

She didn't love the dogs she insisted we get, no it was to make sure I would never leave, she abandoned them to death and adoption, never asked or thought of them again. As cold as a psychopath. Once i stopped feeling pity for her I could see her for what she was, a husk, with tormenting emotions flying around her insides unable to attach to anything, chaos. Hardly human. Crisis as bonding. Painting the world with her cartoon like emotions. Control and abuse the pleasure in her life, then shame that she hates and abuses, then flight to alcohol or drugs or a fantasy affair ( not love but dark eroticism ).

This is life without love, this is people as objects, this is darkness and despair, this is self hatred. The best is a crazed manic escape from the feelings or punishing others (  child bumps it's head and declares... . "naughty chair" ) or an odd emptyness/numbness. She loses the past, the present and the future.

You were trying to save her, probably to save yourself. You are attracted to BPD waifs for a reason, childhood reasons. How is it you can be around someone with this disorder for so long, where did your muscles come from that could carry their burden and their abuse for so long?

The missing piece of the puzzle isn't held by her, but it is missing. Find it in yourself.

She was not brainwashed. The 'person' she was never existed. This is the worst part. The 'real' person you saw behind the masks for other people, was just the mask she wore for you. You just noticed the other masks she wore, but not her mask for you. They get so exhausted, It's really energy depleting being fake all the time.

I am rambling, forgive me.

Be good to yourself and

Look after yourself brother

It gets better, they have messed you up, it takes time

[Blimblam]

chang,

thank you.  I decided I had to let go for my own health.  I saw behind the mask and it was dread and fear. In fact it traumatized me seeing the abandoned child with no mask.  I can not wait to be free of this. 

[sea_of_wounds]

All of these stories stir up so much emotion in me.  How is it possible that someone can fake so much adoration and love, sometimes for such long, long periods of time---building up this beautiful world, only to so mercilessly tear it apart once the devaluation cycle begins? 

Changingman's post was very very wise and helpful.  Trying to see these people for what they are and letting go of the fantasy is the hardest, most painful emotional process I believe a human being can go through, other than mourning the death of a loved one.

It is a profound challenge to accept that the PD never really loved us.  It was so REAL.  It HAD to be real.  But it was NOT.  Sometimes it is just too much to even try to comprehend----the pain and torture of trying to figure out the roots of that kind of pathology is heart-shattering.  The betrayal is staggering.

There are so many levels to the betrayal--because EVERYTHING was a betrayal, down to the presentation of the person we thought we were loving.  Even that was a manufactured lie---a whole persona as a manufactured lie is overwhelmingly difficult to accept, and the healing process is a nightmare.

I just read atop the page of this site that the cycles of BPD usually follow a similar patter and cycle through over a period of months or years.   But the first cycle mentioned is "vulnerable seducer"

Even reading that direct, plain sentence hurts like hell.  It is so painful for all of us to face the ugly reality that the PD has the same MO for every single person s/he attaches to. 

The childlike side is just like changingman said---it is who the PD is---not in a magical, heart-melting authentic way that deserves all the love and adoration we gave--it literally is an outward expression of their stunted emotional development. 

My PD was an extremely accomplished musician.  Her successes inspired me every single day.  She was very confident in public, very outgoing, charming, and direct.  She appeared to have no fears, insecurities, no self-doubt.  I later came to realise that all of this was just a manifestation of her split ego---the ego that would one on hand proclaim she was better than every one---(the way she put down other musicians, sneered at musicians who had to take on day jobs to supplement income, etc)---the ego that would brag about how she was treated like royalty, how everyone loved her, etc etc.-----The flip side of this was the heartbreaking total lack of ego---the submissive, tortured, "I'm bad" persona that would emerge especially when she was drinking. 

Again, it's like the little kid who has to bully and put others down to feel better, when inside they are a tortured mess of self-doubt and wildly confusing emotions.

As polished and confident as she was in public, with me she presented this irresistable "lost waif" stance---shoes always untied, delicate movements, ducked head, eyes looking upward shyly, falling into my arms like a lost little girl, crying and clinging to me, sometimes for hours.  Those moments were all a part of the tremendous bonding experience---I felt so much for her and her pain--When her mom died, I was there with her for hours, embracing her, holding her, soothing her, giving her all the love and comfort she so desperately needed.

I, too, am terrified that a "normal" relationship will not touch me, affect me in the profound ways this one did.  I feel like something inside me has been destroyed, something vital. 

I want to believe that for all of us, there IS love that contains many, many of these beautiful qualities, ones that are consistent and able to grow and deepen, rather than turn into the terrible tortured mess of  PD connection that erodes no matter how much love we pour into it. 

So much more to say---but just sharing some thoughts this morning.

Like blimblam, I cannot wait to be free of this... .

[Changingman]

chang,

Thank you I decided I had to let go for my own health.  I saw behind the mask and it was dread and fear. In fact it traumatized me seeing the abandoned child with no mask.  I can not wait to be free of this. 

Thank You BlimBlam for accepting my post, I hoped I was not to hard in my delivery, it needs to be felt I think to become healthy (wow what a concept).

It terrified me when I saw behind the mask, like a wide eyed Demon hissing at me, afraid and hateful. I literally walked around for months hyperaware of everything, I had a couple of panic attacks for the first time, recognised other people I knew as having it, conversations started to make sense, feelings being released I had bottled up, a puzzle was solved. I could see the same Demon in my exWife and Mother, it was truly like a horror story unraveling.

When I first felt 'love' rushing back into my body it was like a spiritual awakening, I cried, the feeling was overwhelming beautiful. it didn't come from outside me but from within, the emptiness was being filled back up, my arms in the air, head back. It gets better, but it is a process not a destination.

I still have some PTSD but it's a lot less, a lot less. No Contact has been the only way for me. I was really close to death like you, but this is all delusional bull... . they do not own our emotions, personality, sanity, pleasure, money, sex or life... . WE do.

We must take ourselves back, they will NOT give it.

That would take, oh I don't know?... . maybe EMPATHY and LOVE.

Hungry Ghosts they are.

Oh Dear,

No love here

Only hate and fear

[Changingman]

Yes, Sea_of_wounds, yes.

Look inwards, set sail, watch for the rocks and sirens, fight the monsters, God speed.

I fought with the bottle, but I had to do it drunk

[Blimblam]

sea,

thanks your post validates how I feel about it when I am not feeling whimsical about it. you seem pretty far in the healing process and knowledgable especially for a newbie.

"There are so many levels to the betrayal--because EVERYTHING was a betrayal, down to the presentation of the person we thought we were loving.  Even that was a manufactured lie---a whole persona as a manufactured lie is overwhelmingly difficult to accept, and the healing process is a nightmare." 

I really relate to this.  This validates my experience thank you.

chang,

"It terrified me when I saw behind the mask, like a wide eyed Demon hissing at me, afraid and hateful. I literally walked around for months hyperaware of everything, I had a couple of panic attacks for the first time, recognised other people I knew as having it, conversations started to make sense, feelings being released I had bottled up, a puzzle was solved. I could see the same Demon in my exWife and Mother, it was truly like a horror story unraveling.

When I first felt 'love' rushing back into my body it was like a spiritual awakening, I cried, the feeling was overwhelming beautiful. it didn't come from outside me but from within, the emptiness was being filled back up, my arms in the air, head back. It gets better, but it is a process not a destination."

It seems like you unleashed the angry child.  The angry child would give me an evil smirk and lie to me amongst other things.  What was the puzzle and the solution?  What happened or how long was it before you felt this love come back?

about the angry child and the demon. Years ago I once had sleep paralysis with the "old hag" it has a different name in different cultures.  Basically, in my dream I felt the character I was talking to was lying to me and its face was just a mask.  behind the mask was a pitch black face with only eyes like black holes and an evil smirk. I looked down and saw black hands reaching into my chest sucking out my life force. I awoke from the dream and was still looking into the face of the demon hands still in my chest it was laughing I was paralyzed. I struggle and yelled "F*** you" and started to get up the demon got up and walked out the door and evaporated.  It was the same smirk the same feeling of being drained of life force.

[sea_of_wounds]

Thank you changingman for the encouraging words... .

Blimblam, I wish I could   you right now.  I have known about BPD for years and years now, and even though I understand it (as much as I logically can) and have lived through so many experiences with a BPD person, I am at rock bottom right now.  I think my posts might convey that I am far into the healing process, but I must admit, I am in shambles. 

Some part of me is healing, I know that, and can sense it, very very quiet, like a little whisper.  But everyday is a fight to survive, a fight to not wish I were dead.  I relate so much to your pain and disillusionment--so much.  I relate to how you felt your current ex, although so unbearably cruel in the end, was like no other to you.  She was different, you felt that---you adored her, truly and wholly, without any hidden motives, without any pretense, without any mask that you could switch out at a moment's notice if things got "too intense."

The process of detaching from a person we have loved this intensely will never come in one step---it is a thousand steps, a thousand heart-wrenching realisationss, and re-realisations... .an exhausting tumult of having to keep fighting back the urge to hold on to the beautiful words and gestures as the "reality."  Trying to convince the heart   that the reality was something incomprehensibly different---is nearly impossible in the early stages of grief.  Time has to intervene---and we have to surrender to time's invisible healing hand, even though that hand moves things along so painstakingly slow.

I am walking this treacherous path with you, stumbling, falling, bruising my legs, skinning my hands, crying and crying.  I will say right now that even the death of my boyfriend of 5 years--a very sudden an unexpected death when he was just 28---even that was not as painful as this.  And I cannot believe I would ever say anything like that--could never imagine anything worse than that experience, but somehow THIS IS.  It really is.  I am shocked and terrified that it is.

And the myriad of reasons why---are echoed in all the stories and heartache I read on this forum, crying and nodding, feeling like I am reading my own words, my own pain---that my voice is echoed in your voice, your hurt, and your wounds, and vice versa.

It is so very hard for others who have not been through this kind of relationship to truly understand the depths of the agony experienced when we are forced to detach--either by walking away, or by being sent away. 

I try to remember that my PD was sending me away every single day.  Not just once, but a hundred times over.  From the big to the small, she was dismissing me, devaluing me, discarding me, in a repeated process that sometimes was so subtle, I didn't even notice it.  Maybe it appeared to be a little humorous "jab."  Maybe it took the form of dangling all of her past exploits in front of me, stories of wild nights, and people who made passes at her, people who called her "sex on a stick" and on and on.  Maybe it was disguised as "sharing" her art with me, women models  posing in Kama Sutra positions---her renditions of them, and how she called them "boring" and "soulless" when I knew deep down she was relishing the sexual charge she got drawing them, relishing how small and uncertain I might feel seeing all of that, and the special status she got as an artist.  She demeaned every single model as "empty"----I will always think it was to hide that she really was aroused by them, and had to pretend they were nothing so as not to let me into her secret world, make me feel "special" that I was "loved" by her, and they were nothing but empty husks.

I am rambling a little here, but trying to get to the heart of this pain.  I think of a PD as a collection of well-worn habits---devastatingly harmful ones---that have worked for them time and again, with vulnerable people, people with empathy, people willing to turn the other cheek until there really is no cheek left to turn----replaced what feels like what we feel now---just a ghost, or a skeleton---something sucked completely dry of our life force... .Nothing left to give... .after so much has felt violated and betrayed and abused.

A PD will not enmesh with someone unwilling to put up with their abuse--if a person denies them after one  flies, the PD will dismiss them, and continue the pursuit to find a willing host.  It always ends up being people who identify so  much with being the giver, the compassionate, willing, patient, loving, tender, understanding soft-hearted soul that the PD is both drawn to and repelled by. 

It is sobering and shattering to wake up each day and have that harsh reality slam us in the face---we were not so much as loved, as we were just NEEDED... .we could provide something for them when they needed it, when it suited them, when it served them.  And when that need evaporated for whatever reason (justified by them in countless creative, cruel or confusing ways) they cut and run.  When the need resurfaced and they remembered we had once filled that need, they came back----selfishly, disregarding how it would rip our hearts open again after we had been trying so hard to pick up the pieces on our own---with no help or remorse on their part, no ownership of their part in the dissolution of the bond that felt so incredibly alive and real when we were being idealised.

I think so much of what happens in a PD relationship, as in any abusive relationship, is that the abuse becomes "normalised" over time.  It is an unconscious process on our part, but I think for the PD, there is a level of awareness there.  I am not sure how much, but I know there must be some.  They push a boundary, test our reaction, and when we allow it, they push a little more.  Pretty soon we know something is horribly awry, we can even have blazing moments of clarity when we see the abuse for what it is, but it has become so "normal" that we find ways to justify it, or blame ourselves, or overlook it when we get presented with the loving "mask" once again---charming often weakens our resolve, cuts straight to our hearts, and makes us feel like we have a chance to once again regain that sacred, special status we once held for them, way back in the honeymoon, lovebombing phase.

The desperate need to return to that status---no matter how much we are being slayed emotionally--is what keeps us in some of these connections so long.  It is SO HUMAN to want to be loved, cherished, comforted, adored---to belong, to feel important.  Normal, healthy people provide this for us on a CONSISTENT basis.  The allure of a PD is that it is ever-changing.  We never know which mask we will get, but we end up settling for crumbs, waiting for the day when the crumbs become the beautiful, enchanting cake we thought we once were sharing---delighting in---together.

At the root of this is, as I have read here, is that lost little child inside all of us---seeking that unconditional love and adoration we either had received fully as children, or maybe terribly inconsistently, or not at all.  In any of these cases, the mirroring of a PD activates that "coda" deep within--that feeling we once had as little children when were bonding with a parent at a very primordial, deep level----a bonding that our very survival depended on, even if that bonding was uncertain, chaotic, unsafe, or damaging.  We had no other choice but to depend on this adult---and seeking to be in favour with them, seeking love and protection from them, was instinctual. 

I think many of us here have had difficult and painful childhood experiences that primed us to attach to lover who would activate all those old feelings of shame, rejection, loneliness, dismissal, devaluation---that we may have suffered as tender young souls.

A BPD, with the same wounds and hurts, sees them within us, and bonds hard and fierce with us as a result.  It seems that this bonding would be intensely healing, as both people recognise they share a similar background, and finding love and protection in a love relationship would be a way to face those demons together, side-by-side.  But whereas our wounds steered us toward the direction of empathy, the wounds of the BPD steered them toward the direction of empathy-shut-down.  No empathy at all, only the ability to fake it when needed.  It is all so very confusing when we see the BPD crying and shaking, so small and vulnerable----doesn't this mean they feel like we do, feel all that pain, and can therefore relate to ours?

Sadly, and tragically,  no.  They truly can only feel at the level of a toddler--You will notice that toddlers are raging or crying on  minute, then the next, they are laughing and cooing as if nothing happened.  They release the emotion and move on.  They do not yet  have the ability to control their emotions, self-soothe, analyse why they react the way they do.  They just react.  And then move on.  It is a normal step in human development---for a toddler, but when that stage gets stuck inside an adult body, there is never any chance for self-reflection and growth, for being able to relate to grown-up emotions and emotional reasoning.  There is no chance for empathy to flourish, because the world of a toddler is self-centred until s/he begins to understand that the people around them also have needs and feelings of their own.

A BPD can pretend to understand, can pretend very well for often astonishing periods of time, but when you seek the proof and validation that they understand, you get the void. The smirk.  The blank looks.  The rages.  The projection.  You get knocked down from the pedestal, and replaced.  A child gets bored with a toy that no longer interests him.  He throws it aside and demands a new one.  He needs something outside of himself to be amused and entertained, as his mind is learning how to think and feel and relate.

A BPD will forever be looking for the next "high"---the next new person to provide that magical world where everything is passion, and the "boring" day to day expectations and demands of a relationship are yet to solidify.  If and when they do decide to maintain a long-term connection, they seek thrills outside of it to help satisfy that constant craving for the "high" of the beginning stages of love.  Love for them can never move past the idealisation phase.  Once you are "promoted" to the primary position, they begin to demote you little by little by little in a hundred different ways.  And always, it is "your fault" for failing them.

I am typing so much here---just so much on my mind.  I know every BPD is different--some are more high functioning than others.  Some of  the traits I wrote about will not be exhibited, or may be exhibited in small bouts, or in huge ugly rages---or just quiet, slow mental and emotional abuse that eats away at you until you have no idea who you are, what you are, what has happened.

I am sorry to write so much here!  Just tremendous pain, and tremendous understanding for this grueling process of recovery.

Blimblam, I felt like you---"B" was like no other.  She really was.  Despite all the painful, painful things that happened, and the lack of empathy or care that I had to face in the end----she had so many beautiful, beautiful qualities.

Part of that is the truth of them---but it lies side by side with the dark, unfeeling, abusive sides of them---and because things are so severely split at times, it is so very hard to reconcile all the sides. 

Naturally, we are rooting for their beautiful side.  That is the side we love.  That is the side we wish they could always be.  But they cannot.  Having to come to that understanding takes so much courage... .

This is truly like facing a death---a death that keeps happening over and over and over.  To me, I imagine it like this:  knowing this person is dead, working so hard to get through the grief, and then suddenly having that person knock on your door one day, saying, "I didn't really die.  I am still alive."

And then the uncontrollable joy and relief that they are back!  They are not dead!  Oh, how the heart sings at this miracle that they are back in our arms!

But within days, months---that person dies again.  And we have to bury them all over again, grieve all over again.  We look to the door, hoping they will come knocking again---it was all a cruel joke, they are not really dead.

The cycle can go on for years.  Death, hope, death.  This IS like facing death.  It truly, truly is, but on a much deeper and more insidious level that I cannot even describe now... .

Praying so hard that time will be on all of our sides---and that hope will, too.

A special, tender person living and breathing right now, waiting to be received into our hearts, and waiting to receive us into their hearts... .without the slings and arrows, the poisons, the damage and the tears-----

Just beauty, honour, and  devotion, growing stronger by the day.  And yes, childlike joy and wonder mixed in---laughter and passion---that STAYS and strengthens----Love that is reciprocal----what a joy that will be.

[HighwaytoHell]

Changing man... .Sea_of_Wounds: Your posts were as close to me articulating my deepest darkest struggles and realizations as I've read here. Of course, every single person on this forum is an extension of the pain I suffered too and I have learned greatly from each.  It's just so healing and yet, bizarre that the only people that can possibly relate to this life changing experience are those I find in boards like these. I remember trying to explain my situation after I cut my ex off for the last time(2yr affair) and just getting the standard, "Get over it" and the exasperation because they couldn't relate.  I couldn't even understand the pain I was going through as I have been successful with women in the past... .none of them touched me on the level that my exBPDgf did. I now understand why... .both from my issues and the sick, twisted pathology that enables the BPD to mirror us and then discard... .just mind-blowing... .truly a Spiritual experience... .I'm glad to say I'm stronger and wiser because of it. Thanks again for the great posts and excuse my rambling... .I don't post often.

[Changingman]

sea,

"There are so many levels to the betrayal--because EVERYTHING was a betrayal, down to the presentation of the person we thought we were loving.  Even that was a manufactured lie---a whole persona as a manufactured lie is overwhelmingly difficult to accept, and the healing process is a nightmare." 


chang,

"It terrified me when I saw behind the mask, like a wide eyed Demon hissing at me, afraid and hateful. I literally walked around for months hyperaware of everything, I had a couple of panic attacks for the first time, recognised other people I knew as having it, conversations started to make sense, feelings being released I had bottled up, a puzzle was solved. I could see the same Demon in my exWife and Mother, it was truly like a horror story unraveling.

When I first felt 'love' rushing back into my body it was like a spiritual awakening, I cried, the feeling was overwhelming beautiful. it didn't come from outside me but from within, the emptiness was being filled back up, my arms in the air, head back. It gets better, but it is a process not a destination."

It seems like you unleashed the angry child.  The angry child would give me an evil smirk and lie to me amongst other things.  What was the puzzle and the solution?  What happened or how long was it before you felt this love come back?

about the angry child and the demon. Years ago I once had sleep paralysis with the "old hag" it has a different name in different cultures.  Basically, in my dream I felt the character I was talking to was lying to me and its face was just a mask.  behind the mask was a pitch black face with only eyes like black holes and an evil smirk. I looked down and saw black hands reaching into my chest sucking out my life force. I awoke from the dream and was still looking into the face of the demon hands still in my chest it was laughing I was paralyzed. I struggle and yelled "F*** you" and started to get up the demon got up and walked out the door and evaporated.  It was the same smirk the same feeling of being drained of life force.

I think each of us needs to process why we were there, in these hideous RSs. It is something inside us, something broken, something sick.

Sea,

The betrayal of not just me but her dogs was the saviour of me. They were a huge issue for me but she just mumbled almost inaudibly... .'people can't stay together because of dogs'... .no names, no thought for them, she went from pretend crying to searching my face for reactions, raging then sweet forgetful girl, then wondering if I knew what she had done, then trying to provoke me into hitting her. I just suddenly knew something really wrong with her, really wrong. This kind of betrayal is ONLY found in the Bible or in an schlock films.

I love your post

Blim,

The first 2 months I had BPD, it was a living hell, the next 5 were pure anger, I exercised every morning and ate properly, I think some time in the 6-8 months, I started to fill up again. Then bang, something rose inside me. I still had/have a long way to go, but it was the first flame of hope and love.

The puzzle was why did this happen? It was a mystery.

When I found out really quickly what BPD was, I looked up alcoholism, followed a link to... .how a BPD relationship evolves. That was one solution.

Then... .Why on earth did I stay with her for 4 years. My mother was terribly abusive ( a BPD witch), but I still believed it was me. My ex wife was abusive (BPD queen).

The solution... I was used to BPD females they were normal to me. My life has been somewhat of a lie.

Look up 'Euthanasia Coaster', now that's a BPD relationship graph.

You don't treat a borderline, you ignore them