Alternate target(s)

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Due to individual therapy (unknown to her) for myself and the marriage counseling, I have been improving myself.  More likely to ignore her attempts at starting a fight or being more stubborn if an argument starts.  I may not be as much fun anymore to browbeat.

Now, I need to think up how to handle how she goes at our children.  Our S3 seems almost impervious to her.  Ultra stubborn and too young for her to shame.  However, she is going at our D9.  The other day she was lecturing her.  When I heard it start, I quickly got our son to stay in bed, so I could observe.  Our daughter had done something she should not have.  I agreed with uBPD/NPD that it was wrong.  She started talking about how she was disappointed in her and what she would have to do the next day to learn a lesson.  I was standing there nodding my head as it was a good way to teach our daughter a lesson.

However, she then switched on the afterburner.  She told our daughter that she was very hurt about it.  She told her, "you are the reason I want to leave.  Both, you and your brother."  "I love you.  I will always love you, but at the moment, I do not like you."  In my head, "What the heck?  You were handling it nicely up to that point."  It felt like she was trying to shame our daughter, so she could control her better.  To me, it was a good way for a prison guard to crush the spirit of someone.  I had to spend awhile in there trying to comfort and repair our daughter due to that.  I do not know, yet heavily suspect, if this happens more often or not.

Any comparable experiences for me to learn from?  It may not matter, but is this more a BPD or NPD trait?  Any suggestions on what to tell my daughter to help her defends herself against this.  I am not talking about arguing it with her mother but not let it eat at her.  It is what my wife has done to me, so I know how bad it can eat your soul.

[Zon]

Due to individual therapy (unknown to her) for myself and the marriage counseling, I have been improving myself.  More likely to ignore her attempts at starting a fight or being more stubborn if an argument starts.  I may not be as much fun anymore to browbeat.

Now, I need to think up how to handle how she goes at our children.  Our S3 seems almost impervious to her.  Ultra stubborn and too young for her to shame.  However, she is going at our D9.  The other day she was lecturing her.  When I heard it start, I quickly got our son to stay in bed, so I could observe.  Our daughter had done something she should not have.  I agreed with uBPD/NPD that it was wrong.  She started talking about how she was disappointed in her and what she would have to do the next day to learn a lesson.  I was standing there nodding my head as it was a good way to teach our daughter a lesson.

However, she then switched on the afterburner.  She told our daughter that she was very hurt about it.  She told her, "you are the reason I want to leave.  Both, you and your brother."  "I love you.  I will always love you, but at the moment, I do not like you."  In my head, "What the heck?  You were handling it nicely up to that point."  It felt like she was trying to shame our daughter, so she could control her better.  To me, it was a good way for a prison guard to crush the spirit of someone.  I had to spend awhile in there trying to comfort and repair our daughter due to that.  I do not know, yet heavily suspect, if this happens more often or not.

Any comparable experiences for me to learn from?  It may not matter, but is this more a BPD or NPD trait?  Any suggestions on what to tell my daughter to help her defends herself against this.  I am not talking about arguing it with her mother but not let it eat at her.  It is what my wife has done to me, so I know how bad it can eat your soul.

[christoff522]

Due to individual therapy (unknown to her) for myself and the marriage counseling, I have been improving myself.  More likely to ignore her attempts at starting a fight or being more stubborn if an argument starts.  I may not be as much fun anymore to browbeat.

Now, I need to think up how to handle how she goes at our children.  Our S3 seems almost impervious to her.  Ultra stubborn and too young for her to shame.  However, she is going at our D9.  The other day she was lecturing her.  When I heard it start, I quickly got our son to stay in bed, so I could observe.  Our daughter had done something she should not have.  I agreed with uBPD/NPD that it was wrong.  She started talking about how she was disappointed in her and what she would have to do the next day to learn a lesson.  I was standing there nodding my head as it was a good way to teach our daughter a lesson.

However, she then switched on the afterburner.  She told our daughter that she was very hurt about it.  She told her, "you are the reason I want to leave.  Both, you and your brother."  "I love you.  I will always love you, but at the moment, I do not like you."  In my head, "What the heck?  You were handling it nicely up to that point."  It felt like she was trying to shame our daughter, so she could control her better.  To me, it was a good way for a prison guard to crush the spirit of someone.  I had to spend awhile in there trying to comfort and repair our daughter due to that.  I do not know, yet heavily suspect, if this happens more often or not.

Any comparable experiences for me to learn from?  It may not matter, but is this more a BPD or NPD trait?  Any suggestions on what to tell my daughter to help her defends herself against this.  I am not talking about arguing it with her mother but not let it eat at her.  It is what my wife has done to me, so I know how bad it can eat your soul.

From what I have researched, BPD mothers tend to breed BPD daughters. The mother will be very overbearing and controlling to the point where the child will begin to see things the same way. Remember that BPD is a 'personality disorder', much of which is nutured not natured. So yes - its best to keep reassuring your daughter that what her mother says is not right. I'm not in any way saying your daughter will end up with BPD... because you are there... you can counteract the programming.

[OutOfEgypt]

It is good that you are there to comfort your daughter, validate her feelings, and shine the light of reality on her mother's words and behavior.  That is so important for her.  I do that with my daughter, as well.  I pray it will have an impact, but I have no control over that.

[enlighten me]

My exgf and her D9 have raging rows.

She screams in her daughters face and calls her all sorts of things.

Her daughter has started showing BPD traits already.

[HopefulDad]

Similar thing happening in my household.  Also with a D9 who gets the brunt of my BPDw's venom.  And yes, my D9 exhibits BPD traits (but recovers emotionally much more quickly than my wife).  It's funny in that the tools I've learned here have had little positive result with my wife, but have been amazing with D9.

My daughter confides in me a lot about how inferior she feels vs. our D7 who is clearly favored by my wife.  I spend a lot of time soothing her and she seems to handle it well, but I'm sure it's doing a number on her inside.

[Soccerchic]

I'm in the exact same position. My h shames my kids.  He will set a normal limit and then nit pick and insult.  I can not stand by this behavior and will counteract this right in front of the kids. I'm sure this can't be the greatest but I am at a loss of what to do. I will restate the rule and enforce a normal consequence but restate things like you always make messes to every one spills especially me. Let's clean this together.  Or stop crying replaced with you are sad. I would cry too.  My gosh it's so exhausting.  I need help right now.  About three weeks ago my son acted out physically against his dad who retaliated but claimed he didn't mean too.  I reacted physically with h and demanded he move where in he was gone in his car for two days.  He has a medical condition that caused me to allow him back inside downstairs. I've stopped sleeping with him, wearing my ring, saying I love you.  I'm cordial.  He has profusely apologized to me and my son but it seems like it was more for him. My son a grade schooler doesn't want to be near him. My h is going to counseling and church now.  He says it was a reflex response and he has no idea what happened. He would never strike our son. It was a weird moment. Lots of crying.  I have so much shame that I haven't completely kicked him out. Money child rearing ect are so scary with out a spouse but I guess he is like an aft child. He wants to do couples counseling but I don't know.  Is this that recycling behavior I hear about.  He seems to not understand feelings and says he can't remember being a kid where I remember if perfectly. 

On a side note my mom was exactly like your wife (ironic I married one).  The only reason I was able to survive was my dad unconditionally loved me and told me so many positive things and was so nonjudgmental that it counteracted the bull honk my

Mom would say. I had outside friends moms adopt me in a way and an outside family member to talk to to help compare and contrast what is normal.

[Zon]

Thank you all of you.  I will definitely keep improving how I handle the situations where she goes at the children too strongly (usually heavy doses of shame).

It is interesting that there are so many people with D9's with me included.

I'm in the exact same position. My h shames my kids.  He will set a normal limit and then nit pick and insult.  I can not stand by this behavior and will counteract this right in front of the kids. I'm sure this can't be the greatest but I am at a loss of what to do. I will restate the rule and enforce a normal consequence but restate things like you always make messes to every one spills especially me. Let's clean this together.  Or stop crying replaced with you are sad. I would cry too.  My gosh it's so exhausting.  I need help right now.  About three weeks ago my son acted out physically against his dad who retaliated but claimed he didn't mean too.  I reacted physically with h and demanded he move where in he was gone in his car for two days.  He has a medical condition that caused me to allow him back inside downstairs. I've stopped sleeping with him, wearing my ring, saying I love you.  I'm cordial.  He has profusely apologized to me and my son but it seems like it was more for him. My son a grade schooler doesn't want to be near him. My h is going to counseling and church now.  He says it was a reflex response and he has no idea what happened. He would never strike our son. It was a weird moment. Lots of crying.  I have so much shame that I haven't completely kicked him out. Money child rearing ect are so scary with out a spouse but I guess he is like an aft child. He wants to do couples counseling but I don't know.  Is this that recycling behavior I hear about.  He seems to not understand feelings and says he can't remember being a kid where I remember if perfectly.

Shame seems to be her weapon of choice.  The fact that they go with a normal limit then double down on it is the hard part.  I think all is OK then bam.  The harder ones are where she slowly increases during the long conversation.  I am currently in MC for the first (only?) time.  I have not been recycled this strongly before assuming this is recycling, so I cannot tell you.

I understand feelings but not hers.  Not the extreme or out-of-the blue ones.  I am emotionally closed to her, now.  It took many years of her behavior though.  I remember snips of my childhood, but I was a very quiet child and did not interact with many people.  I am not sure how much all people can remember of their childhood.  At least, he should remember somethings, right?  A favorite food, perhaps?

On a side note my mom was exactly like your wife (ironic I married one).  The only reason I was able to survive was my dad unconditionally loved me and told me so many positive things and was so nonjudgmental that it counteracted the bull honk my Mom would say. I had outside friends moms adopt me in a way and an outside family member to talk to to help compare and contrast what is normal.

It is good to know that others can make the child turn out sane(r) regardless of a BPD in their life.

[Soccerchic]

I noticed what you said about the d9 and ironically my son is 9. Thinking back to my childhood I remember my mom having a really hard time with handling puberty. It was almost like, I know this sounds creepy, but I was the other woman. Around 9 or 10 don't kids start challenging parents more?  They aren't the cute little girl or boy that can be dressed up and shown off. They are older with their own opinions and style. My dad would talk with me about his day like I was older.  I think he was really isolated for a give and take conversation, not just a take take one.  And by my h not remembering his childhood, I meant that he had no empathy for what a child feels.  However, it is odd that he doesn't have more memories.

[3 children]

However, she then switched on the afterburner.  She told our daughter that she was very hurt about it.  She told her, "you are the reason I want to leave.  Both, you and your brother."  "I love you.  I will always love you, but at the moment, I do not like you."  In my head, "What the heck?  You were handling it nicely up to that point."  It felt like she was trying to shame our daughter, so she could control her better.  To me, it was a good way for a prison guard to crush the spirit of someone.  I had to spend awhile in there trying to comfort and repair our daughter due to that.  I do not know, yet heavily suspect, if this happens more often or not.

Wow yes dealing with the same thing.  I'm so sorry... .I have heard a lot of the same and said to myself What the heck too.   Less than 2 weeks ago we had a major family explosion.  All 3 kids involved. D18, d12, and s5.  My wife told both daughters to "pack up and leave with dad" Defiantly What the heck! Ya I lost it... .it wasn't good.  I immediately told them no matter what happens they are always welcome with me where ever I live. (She didn't like that either)

I must have missed the fine print. Because I didn't sign up for this.   There were issues in my house growing up but I never heard anything like that from my parents.  I know it devastated both of them.   The look on their faces was pure heart break.

My oldest (after talking a few months ago) is very aware something is not right.   D12 just says she "hates mom" and mostly avoids her.  S5 isn't old enough to get the whole thing.   

Most of our marriage I have stayed out of it (as my wife has driven a wedge between me and my oldest).  Then we were in counseling a few months ago and I questioned the whole parenting thing.   I Said I didn't like some things and so the counselor said in front of my wife you have every right to be involved and voice your opinions to d18.    That was a good thing my wife won't question now because it will show she's wrong. 

She has always been in control of parenting and when ever I have questioned well let's just say it's not a good idea.  So I had the talk with d18 who has said multiple times to me now that mom seems paranoid and mom working now is good because the house is quieter.  Really sad but we talk a lot more now and openly discuss wife.  (If my wife knew exactly what was said she would kill me) it's not to put down to wife at all. It's to shed light to my kids about a serious problem.  I think it was also good for her to see how I've felt about it all these years and was interesting to hear her say the same things I did.  That she didn't get it, felt crazy, mom cramming it down my throat but it didn't feel right,  mom picking fights for no reason.

I have started going back after there is a problem and comforting my girls.  Wife sees it as a conspiracy against her.  And me turning the girls against her... .Not at all.  I so it all behind closed doors now so there aren't any problems.  I know they still love their mom,  and I know she loves them.  I think my input has really helped so far to at least make my kids feel more validated and secure.  And I know if we split up the two older kids will probably end up living with me at some point.

[Zon]

I noticed what you said about the d9 and ironically my son is 9. Thinking back to my childhood I remember my mom having a really hard time with handling puberty. It was almost like, I know this sounds creepy, but I was the other woman. Around 9 or 10 don't kids start challenging parents more?  They aren't the cute little girl or boy that can be dressed up and shown off. They are older with their own opinions and style. My dad would talk with me about his day like I was older.  I think he was really isolated for a give and take conversation, not just a take take one.  And by my h not remembering his childhood, I meant that he had no empathy for what a child feels.  However, it is odd that he doesn't have more memories.

You h may be intentionally/unintentionally blocking bad memories of childhood.  I can see that empathy part for the feelings of children.  My wife has taken S3's comments harsher than necessary.  He says he does not like something she cooked yet ate a lot the previous day.  I had to teach her that he meant that he just does not want it today.  She takes it as a direct insult as if an adult said it.

My wife may not be handling the children growing and becoming more independent.  While I knew it would come someday, it feels faster while probably being right on time.  She does seem to notice our D9 maturing physically but very unsure what to do with the changes.  OTOH, she did not handle some maturing when our D9 was only four and beginning to expand her realm.  To me, it is just the next stage.  It may drive me crazy, yet I do not lash out against the children for that.

She keeps our daughter out of the bathroom when I shower due to my daughter possibly being too curious.  My wife acts almost a little paranoid sometimes like D9 is "the other woman" as you put it.  This is even if my wife and S3 are in the room too.  Your mom sounds like my wife.

[Zon]

However, she then switched on the afterburner.  She told our daughter that she was very hurt about it.  She told her, "you are the reason I want to leave.  Both, you and your brother."  "I love you.  I will always love you, but at the moment, I do not like you."  In my head, "What the heck?  You were handling it nicely up to that point."  It felt like she was trying to shame our daughter, so she could control her better.  To me, it was a good way for a prison guard to crush the spirit of someone.  I had to spend awhile in there trying to comfort and repair our daughter due to that.  I do not know, yet heavily suspect, if this happens more often or not.

Wow yes dealing with the same thing.  I'm so sorry... .I have heard a lot of the same and said to myself What the heck too.   Less than 2 weeks ago we had a major family explosion.  All 3 kids involved. D18, d12, and s5.  My wife told both daughters to "pack up and leave with dad" Defiantly What the heck! Ya I lost it... .it wasn't good.  I immediately told them no matter what happens they are always welcome with me where ever I live. (She didn't like that either)

I must have missed the fine print. Because I didn't sign up for this.   There were issues in my house growing up but I never heard anything like that from my parents.  I know it devastated both of them.   The look on their faces was pure heart break.

My therapist immediately latched on to this incident when I told him today.  He said it was not right and was emotional abuse.  Even if the children appear to be OK later, that thought is in their head.  They will worry that they could cause a divorce.  If we do divorce, then they will worry that they caused it.

I do not like thinking about how much it hurts children for a parent to do that.  Next time, and it is bound to happen again, I will jump on those words.  She will probably complain that we are not on the same page with disciplining the children.  My reply will be that she is right; we are most definitely not on the same page.  The T also said it will give a good impression to the children that I am there to stand up for them.

My oldest (after talking a few months ago) is very aware something is not right.   :)12 just says she "hates mom" and mostly avoids her.  S5 isn't old enough to get the whole thing.

I wonder if my wife realizes that her children will end up despising her if she continues her ways.

Most of our marriage I have stayed out of it (as my wife has driven a wedge between me and my oldest).  Then we were in counseling a few months ago and I questioned the whole parenting thing.   I Said I didn't like some things and so the counselor said in front of my wife you have every right to be involved and voice your opinions to d18.    That was a good thing my wife won't question now because it will show she's wrong. 

She has always been in control of parenting and when ever I have questioned well let's just say it's not a good idea.  So I had the talk with d18 who has said multiple times to me now that mom seems paranoid and mom working now is good because the house is quieter.  Really sad but we talk a lot more now and openly discuss wife.  (If my wife knew exactly what was said she would kill me) it's not to put down to wife at all. It's to shed light to my kids about a serious problem.  I think it was also good for her to see how I've felt about it all these years and was interesting to hear her say the same things I did.  That she didn't get it, felt crazy, mom cramming it down my throat but it didn't feel right,  mom picking fights for no reason.

I have started going back after there is a problem and comforting my girls.  Wife sees it as a conspiracy against her.  And me turning the girls against her... .Not at all.  I so it all behind closed doors now so there aren't any problems.  I know they still love their mom,  and I know she loves them.  I think my input has really helped so far to at least make my kids feel more validated and secure.  And I know if we split up the two older kids will probably end up living with me at some point.

I tell my wife that I will have a talk with D9 about various issues, so my wife is not attacking our daughter.  She has kind of given me more reign since she is fed up with trying to understand our daughter.

Your story sounds very similar to mine.  I take it that your wife is sometimes "normal"?  I ask because other people's BPD's seem to lose it more fully while my wife gets pretty mean with her words but not yelling very often.

[Soccerchic]

Your wife is so similar to my mom. I did find out years and years later that she had been molested ie trauma at a young age.  She would not let me dress in ways I wanted or wear normal amounts of makeup required for this modeling gig sabotaging that. I remember the house felt tense and I would hide in my room when she was home. When my dad was there it was like sunshine and rainbows in comparison.  I just learned that my husband is so controlling that he constantly criticized my daughters efforts to build her own dog house today.  It's crazy. I want to encourage her creativity. He wants to nit pick and control. Why why. He admitted that he felt bad   My d13 swears he is only apologetic if I'm there.  She thinks he is trying to be able to be invited to move back in my room (kicked out due to hideous parenting and me emotionally shutting down). I can't be at home all the time. I can't afford outside child care right now.  He makes a little bit above minimum wage and I have a career.  I feel so burdened and guilty anytime I leave the kids with him due to the inevitable fighting.  I'm soo tired from work bills ect and my kids get so bored when he doesn't engage that everyone is all riled up when I get home.  I need to workout alone to clear my head but no one wants to stay with just him.  I wish I could hide out in a cabin some where in the woods and order everything I need from the internet just to have some peace.  I feel soo burdened financially too.

[3 children]

Your story sounds very similar to mine.  I take it that your wife is sometimes "normal"?  I ask because other people's BPD's seem to lose it more fully while my wife gets pretty mean with her words but not yelling very often.

When my my is not in full "crisis" mode she will show some softness or kindness.  But I've notice it has changed the last few years.  It used to feel real.  Now it feels like she has to force herself to do it.  When she does sometimes it ends good and sometimes all it takes is something small to set her off.  When she's not fully triggered  I can sense a real internal struggle that she just can't win.  I feel like she (on occasions ) sees it herself.  Like a little reality check but literally only for a brief second.  I think my kids see it to and I can feel their anxiety over it.

Sometimes (and this is my interpretation) she will all of a sudden shut off, won't talk, is very short and snappy.  And I think when she does, something has triggered her and she sees reality for a second and knows the way she sees it is wrong.  Or maybe she just finds some restraint at times.  I don't know.  

When she will discipline I think she can be very harsh in both her words and tone.  If anyone questions it at that point whether me or the kids that's when the volume gets turned up.  My oldest will just say over and over " I get it, I get it" and walk away.  Non of us can question her.  Non of our points of view matter in her mind, she is always "right".  I used to go along with it to keep the peace but I can't do it anymore.  Like you said I disagree and I don't call her out directly but I will go back and discipline on my own, but I will always do it while showing them or telling them I love them.  

My wife says I'm undermining her and not backing her up as a parent.   I don't see it that way.  I don't back up how she does it.  Big difference.  

She definitely uses words to guilt or manipulate to stay on top and in control.  I have always felt there is a huge issue there.  She always has to feel like she has control. (Or at least that no body else has any control over her). She always tells me how controlling and domineering I am.  I used to question myself but I don't anymore.  I am not trying to control her...

I know this is not good for the kids and know they could have more of "me" if I wasn't here I just can't find the strength to leave.  

Sorry if some of this is worded wrong or doesn't make sense.  Can't sleep and it's 3:00am.  Hope this helped a little

[Zon]

Your wife is so similar to my mom. I did find out years and years later that she had been molested ie trauma at a young age.  She would not let me dress in ways I wanted or wear normal amounts of makeup required for this modeling gig sabotaging that. I remember the house felt tense and I would hide in my room when she was home. When my dad was there it was like sunshine and rainbows in comparison.  I just learned that my husband is so controlling that he constantly criticized my daughters efforts to build her own dog house today.  It's crazy. I want to encourage her creativity. He wants to nit pick and control. Why why. He admitted that he felt bad   My d13 swears he is only apologetic if I'm there.  She thinks he is trying to be able to be invited to move back in my room (kicked out due to hideous parenting and me emotionally shutting down). I can't be at home all the time. I can't afford outside child care right now.  He makes a little bit above minimum wage and I have a career.  I feel so burdened and guilty anytime I leave the kids with him due to the inevitable fighting.  I'm soo tired from work bills ect and my kids get so bored when he doesn't engage that everyone is all riled up when I get home.  I need to workout alone to clear my head but no one wants to stay with just him.  I wish I could hide out in a cabin some where in the woods and order everything I need from the internet just to have some peace.  I feel soo burdened financially too.

My wife did not face what your mom faced.  My guess it was the family dynamics at play for her instead of physical abuse.  However, I can only guess.

I am learning that the desires (right word?) in a person are the same with all of us.  For example, I am a big time nitpicker.  The difference is how we behave.  I bite my tongue and smile to let my children try and succeed/fail with my nitpicking instincts.  Mainly, I tell hold back unless it will fail badly or they will get injured.  It sounds like your husband does not know how to bite his tongue.

I feel for you on the home front.  I am uneasy when I am not around her and them to monitor for her comments towards them.  Fortunately, she does it in front of me as well as tells me about it, so I can make amends for those instances.  For the other times, I am telling my daughter to tell me if Mom says anything that makes her feel bad.

It is interesting that we do not need money to get married, but to divorce or even just arrange things better, we do.

[Zon]

Your story sounds very similar to mine.  I take it that your wife is sometimes "normal"?  I ask because other people's BPD's seem to lose it more fully while my wife gets pretty mean with her words but not yelling very often.

When my my is not in full "crisis" mode she will show some softness or kindness.  But I've notice it has changed the last few years.  It used to feel real.  Now it feels like she has to force herself to do it.  When she does sometimes it ends good and sometimes all it takes is something small to set her off.  When she's not fully triggered  I can sense a real internal struggle that she just can't win.  I feel like she (on occasions ) sees it herself.  Like a little reality check but literally only for a brief second.  I think my kids see it to and I can feel their anxiety over it.

Sometimes (and this is my interpretation) she will all of a sudden shut off, won't talk, is very short and snappy.  And I think when she does, something has triggered her and she sees reality for a second and knows the way she sees it is wrong.  Or maybe she just finds some restraint at times.  I don't know.  

My wife does seem to notice her temper flaring (sometimes for the weakest of reasons) and will walk off.  This is infrequent.  Some other times, she will let loose.  The worse times are when she is more controlled yet angry.

When she will discipline I think she can be very harsh in both her words and tone.  If anyone questions it at that point whether me or the kids that's when the volume gets turned up.  My oldest will just say over and over " I get it, I get it" and walk away.  Non of us can question her.  Non of our points of view matter in her mind, she is always "right".  I used to go along with it to keep the peace but I can't do it anymore.  Like you said I disagree and I don't call her out directly but I will go back and discipline on my own, but I will always do it while showing them or telling them I love them.  

My wife says I'm undermining her and not backing her up as a parent.   I don't see it that way.  I don't back up how she does it.  Big difference.  

Very similar to my wife on that.  It is all about control.

This weekend, my wife said it sounded like I was counteracting her instructions when I was trying to add to them.  Actually, I wanted to make sure the children combined her new rule with an old rule of hers.

She definitely uses words to guilt or manipulate to stay on top and in control.  I have always felt there is a huge issue there.  She always has to feel like she has control. (Or at least that no body else has any control over her). She always tells me how controlling and domineering I am.  I used to question myself but I don't anymore.  I am not trying to control her...

I told my T that it feels like there is the big struggle for power between her and I when I have no desire for that power.  Yes, they do project.  I am slowly recognizing her words are about her and not me.

I know this is not good for the kids and know they could have more of "me" if I wasn't here I just can't find the strength to leave.  

That is the hard part.  I am determined to keep the children to protect them from her, if/when I leave.  They will still see her, but I cannot let their spirits be crushed.

Sorry if some of this is worded wrong or doesn't make sense.  Can't sleep and it's 3:00am.  Hope this helped a little

It helped a lot.  Thank you.

[mace17]

I'm in the exact same position. My h shames my kids.  He will set a normal limit and then nit pick and insult.  I can not stand by this behavior and will counteract this right in front of the kids. I'm sure this can't be the greatest but I am at a loss of what to do. I will restate the rule and enforce a normal consequence but restate things like you always make messes to every one spills especially me. Let's clean this together.  Or stop crying replaced with you are sad. I would cry too.  My gosh it's so exhausting.  I need help right now.  About three weeks ago my son acted out physically against his dad who retaliated but claimed he didn't mean too.  I reacted physically with h and demanded he move where in he was gone in his car for two days.  He has a medical condition that caused me to allow him back inside downstairs. I've stopped sleeping with him, wearing my ring, saying I love you.  I'm cordial.  He has profusely apologized to me and my son but it seems like it was more for him. My son a grade schooler doesn't want to be near him. My h is going to counseling and church now.  He says it was a reflex response and he has no idea what happened. He would never strike our son. It was a weird moment. Lots of crying.  I have so much shame that I haven't completely kicked him out. Money child rearing ect are so scary with out a spouse but I guess he is like an aft child. He wants to do couples counseling but I don't know.  Is this that recycling behavior I hear about.  He seems to not understand feelings and says he can't remember being a kid where I remember if perfectly. 

On a side note my mom was exactly like your wife (ironic I married one).  The only reason I was able to survive was my dad unconditionally loved me and told me so many positive things and was so nonjudgmental that it counteracted the bull honk my

Mom would say. I had outside friends moms adopt me in a way and an outside family member to talk to to help compare and contrast what is normal.

Soccerchic,

I am having similar issues with my H and my S8.  H either ignores S or comes down really hard on him nit picking what he does and yelling at him in this condescending tone like he's stupid.  S8 has been to a counselor, he was having serious daily emotional meltdowns in 1st grade and it seemed the cause was him trying so hard to be perfect.  It seems to all come down to him wanting to please his dad and get attention from him, and he is so hard on himself.  It has gotten a little better in the last year, but S8 now tries to get attention from his dad by "wrestling" with him.  S8 tends to get a little rough during the wrestling, and it seems to be a thinly veiled attempt to "punish" dad and beat him up.  I am concerned because at the young age of 8, my son is always trying to encourage me to either leave his dad, kick him out, or run him over with the car.  I know I can't just do what my 8 yr old tells me to do (especially running dad over with a car!) but I am concerned that he feels that way. Not really sure how to handle this.