Can't boundaries be counterproductive with a BPDso?

[Marvis]

Everyone on here seems to talk about setting boundaries. That's all well and good but can't boundaries be counterproductive with a BPDso? Can you give me examples of boundaries that have helped and/or hindered your progress? I guess I just don't understand how to set this in motion. I know what boundaries are but how do we set them without the rage I'm scared of receiving?

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[Skip]

Have you seen this article on the site?

bpdfamily.com/content/values-and-boundaries

Many members approach boundaries on a reactionary basis.  Something happens and they want to say "Stop!".

Often it just makes matters worse.

Why?

Because establishing values is process and the "negative" correction, the "Stop!" is really meaningless without all the prep work.

Here's a simple model in the animal world.  I want my dog to sit on command.  OK, no big deal. So would you go up to the dog and scream "Sit!"

No.  The dog would have no idea why you are screaming at it and if anything, you are creating a neurotic dog. Add electric shock.  Still nothing. Increase the voltage.  Nothing.

There has to be training and positive reinforcement and a learning curve to get a dog to sit.  Most trainers do it with positive reinforcement only and after it is well established, corrections (warnings).

People are far far more complex - but the model is still basically the same.

It's a process.

[123Phoebe]

I guess I just don't understand how to set this in motion. I know what boundaries are but how do we set them without the rage I'm scared of receiving?

Try not to fear the rage, expect it   Or at least expect a push back of sorts, if you're indeed dealing with a personality disorder.  Boundaries have everything to do with you, believe in the power of them.  After all, they speak to who you are.

We've usually let things get out of hand, by not protecting ourselves, not standing up for what we believe in.  In my case, I was real wobbly and thought more about what he would think about my boundaries, trying to preempt a possible countermove.  I was blaming him ahead of time, creating a pseudo chess match in my mind, complicating things so much more than need be

One of my favorite ways of looking at things was (and still is at times)... .  How can he not know better?  Shame on him!  I'd come at him from that angle.  Needless to say, it didn't work very well.

Get in touch with what's really important to you and respond from that place... .

Is there a specific boundary you're trying to come to grips with?

[an0ught]

Try not to fear the rage, expect it  

Indeed good advice. Most boundaries  we want to get serious about have been tramped over again and again. So when this avenue is not available anymore it comes as a bit of a shock and extinction bursts are common. We may have to pay a price to protect our boundary that is where the workshop Skip pointed to comes in. Proper planning is very important.

As introduction of boundaries is a disruptive and unilateral change it always helps if one has some validation skills built first. Some people are in such dire straits that they have to start with boundaries to protect vital values. Generally it helps to be able to recognize and label emotions on the other side. Emotions during boundary introduction are often upset, angry, irritated and feelings of abandonment - almost all of us are uncomfortable expressing them and most when arriving on the board struggle to do when needed. Having a good grip on expressing those, knowing your values, the boundary and the price one is willing to pay would be optimal.

Another useful strategy is pacing the introduction. Starting to draw lines everywhere where it is needed may be desirable but may not be achievable or might disrupt the relationship too much. It is often better to start somewhere, do it cleanly and only then move on to the next. Building a success record of changes helps to tackle more difficult questions.

The first few boundaries are the hardest. Then rage gets less (often not just around boundaries), you see the benefits, both sides get more "comfortable" with conflict in the relationship and your confidence increases.

The board here is a good sounding board and source of support when it comes to boundaries.

[ziniztar]

The dog would have no idea why you are screaming at it and if anything, you are creating a neurotic dog.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 

[ziniztar]

In my case, I was real wobbly and thought more about what he would think about my boundaries, trying to preempt a possible countermove.  I was blaming him ahead of time, creating a pseudo chess match in my mind, complicating things so much more than need be

Errrr that sounds like me.

[waverider]

How do you deal with rage as a consequence of a boundary?

You make dealing with abuse your first boundary. That is your main fall back fuse if you like. As you suspect until you get that one in place all others can be undermined.

[DreamFlyer99]

Marvis, I felt so much like you on the subject of boundaries when I first came here. I was tired and I didn't want to risk getting yelled at. When I started to understand that boundaries were all about what was important to me, upholding the things I valued, I dipped my toe in the water. Like An0ught said, start with one area.

My therapist would tell me that I didn't have to talk about "I am making this boundary" (awkward and antagonizing conversation!) but to just "live it." What I valued was not being raged at, so I started using the "time-out" tool and taking walks when my husband started getting wound up about something. I'd let him know what I was doing, and if nothing else the walk helped me a lot.

That's what I picked to start with, yours could be something quite different (though Waverider makes a good point.)

df99

[startrekuser]

When I started to understand that boundaries were all about what was important to me, upholding the things I valued, I dipped my toe in the water.

What is important to me (incomplete list):

Not being yelled at.

Not being raged at.

Not being blamed.

Not being woken up from sleep.

Not being cursed at.

Not being spoken to in angry tone.

Not being threatened.

Not being bullied.

Not being abused.

Solutions based discussions.

This is my starting point.  I know they won't work at first, but I'll have my self-respect and I'll walk away from situations where I'm being abused by my wife.  That's my goal for now.

When (G-d willing) these bear fruit and I'm confident that I can sustain my behavior, I'll set new goals.

[waverider]

When I started to understand that boundaries were all about what was important to me, upholding the things I valued, I dipped my toe in the water.

What is important to me (incomplete list):

Not being yelled at.

Not being raged at.

Not being blamed.

Not being woken up from sleep.

Not being cursed at.

Not being spoken to in angry tone.

Not being threatened.

Not being bullied.

Not being abused.

Solutions based discussions.

This is my starting point.  I know they won't work at first, but I'll have my self-respect and I'll walk away from situations where I'm being abused by my wife.  That's my goal for now.

When (G-d willing) these bear fruit and I'm confident that I can sustain my behavior, I'll set new goals.

These are good starting points, to make it more manageable most of those come under the description of "not being abused'. The more you simplify it the easier it is to manage and apply.

Solution based discussions is an ideal, but not something you can control nor apply a simple boundary to.

What actions can you think of you could put into place to isolate yourself from these behaviors?

[formflier]

  I know what boundaries are but how do we set them without the rage I'm scared of receiving?

So... .let me translate scared in to "fear". 

As a general rule in life... .and I think even more so with people with BPD... .making a decision and using fear to make that decision is probably not a good tactic.

Making a decision based on knowledge and wisdom will usually bring good results.

Another way of saying this is I have no idea how to set a boundary and not suffer some rage.  The goal is to enforce the boundary... .don't worry about what the pwBPD does

[DreamFlyer99]

Marvis,

what's going on in your life? Can you update us? You brought up something that is such an inherent part of Life With a Loved One With BPD. How are you doing?

Startrekuser,

your whole list was very familiar to me, and like Waverider said all comes down to "abuse." What we want is to be respected, but abuse negates that.

And this is truly our million dollar question:

Waverider said:

What actions can you think of you could put into place to isolate yourself from these behaviors?

This is key for all of us who are trying to have boundaries after too many years without.

df99