Do I need to court her again, after a separation?

[Moselle]

I've been separated for 6 months from my wife of 14 years and, after much mudslinging, she has calmed down and is beginning to respect my boundaries.

I visited her at her mother's house today. And asked if she wanted to go riding bikes at the beachfront tomorrow. As usual, she had a few reasons not to, but her mother said "I guess you guys are courting again", and she eventually said Yes, like she was doing me a big favor, uggggh.

I have said a few times that I would like to be friends and then after some time, decide if there's something to salvage or not. I feel pressured into being the one doing all the work, and she just plays the victim. I don't like being cast as the bad guy who now has to work at the

relationship.

There is zero trust on both sides and things are difficult.

How do I hold to my guns in terms of not going back into an abusive relationship, but also show my effort in working at the relationship?

We have 3 children 13, 9 and 5

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[tbddbt]

The fact that she's acting like she's doing you a favor makes it sound an awful lot like if you were to get back together, the same patterns would return. You separated because you could not tolerate that kind of life. Think about if you are now willing to go back to that situation.

[OutOfEgypt]

What kind of effort do you really need to show?  I don't believe that thought comes from the side of you that realizes what you've been through.  I believe it comes from the side of you that is compliant and ready to hand her your head (while trying to convince yourself that you're going to be "stronger" this time) just to hold onto her.

I was married for about 14 years, too.  We divorced, and we recycled after.  I will never go back again.  I got to watch the entire BPD cycle unfold before my eyes, and there was nothing I could do about it.  Because I was moving on and dating someone else, she was back to the idealization phase where she was chasing me and acting super-interested and intensely passionate about me.  Soon, I was letting her move back in because things felt so wonderful and seemed so promising, and I told myself that I would never let things get back to how they were.  And then they did.  Hmmm... .

I agree with tbddbt.  If she's acting like she's doing you a favor, then I can't see how this is going to be anything different.  You're chasing her (as she expects) and worrying about how much effort you are showing.  :)o you really think she's sitting there at home writing to some online forum and wondering about if she's showing you enough effort for the relationship?  You already know the answer to that, but you don't want to look at it because it means facing the fact that the relationship is one-way and hollow.  Sorry, man.  Been there.

I knew I should not have allowed her to come back, even though she was getting professional help (though still not officially diagnosed).  But I did anything for the chance to have it work out like in my dreams.  So, I sold myself out again without even realizing it.  And as soon as she moved back in (or more accurately, invited herself back into my house), it devolved back into the same one-way relationship and eventually with more cheating and lying to me, and then blaming me for it all.

[OutOfEgypt]

It's like this

them (at first): chase me!  chase me!  chase me!  you're so great!  you're so great!  chase me!

us: you're so great too!  I love that you think I'm so great!  I've never felt like this before!  I give everything I am to you!

them: oh... .ok, excellent.  now I have you.  well, you suck.  I love you, but you suck.  and its your fault.

us: how can I make it better?  what can I do to prove my love and have you feel about me how you once did?

them: keep kissing my arse.  keep taking the blame.  and keep believing that its going to make ANY difference.  the truth, that I'm not telling you, is that it makes me loathe you more.  it makes me want to hurt you more.  i can't help it.  but keep chasing me, and keep taking the blame.  i need you to.  in fact, its the one thing that I am desperate for.

us: but i love you!

them:  I love you too.  but you're a loser, and I'm not sure I want you any more.

us: ok fine... .I'm done.  moving on, now.

them: yeah, right.  bwahahaha

(we start moving on)

them: wait a minute.  maybe there's something here.  i've loved you for so long.  maybe we can give it another try.  i can be respectful... .watch... .

us:  oh... .well, golly.  you are being respectful.  ok, I'm running back.  here I come!  I'm so excited!

them:  (almost immediately losing interest) umm... .don't get too excited, now.  pretty soon I'm going to be clobbering you again.

[tbddbt]

Out of Egypt, wow!  That so accurately describes my marriage. I've never seen it laid out like that before. All of our details change, but in a Bpd relationship, it all ends up looking like that same scenario. Why are we so stupid to miss the pattern as it's happening in front of us?  Being hopeful is usually a good and admirable quality, but it's being used against us.

[OutOfEgypt]

We're not dumb.  We are complicit in a way, yes, but we have to remember that we are dealing with people who are masterful at relational "slight-of-hand".  They are constantly criticizing and blaming us and dropping bombs on us so that our gaze and effort is always consumed with trying to put out fires instead of stepping back and looking at the big picture. 

[Moselle]

The fact that she's acting like she's doing you a favor makes it sound an awful lot like if you were to get back together, the same patterns would return. You separated because you could not tolerate that kind of life. Think about if you are now willing to go back to that situation.

Thanks for the wake up call tbddbt. I must say that I have not started courting her again. This was something promoted by her mother. I have been consistent throughout the separation that I desire to be friends, I know it sounds a bit mechanical, but it allows us to separate permanently on at least more amicable terms than we have had, or work on the relationship if we both agree to that. This decision is postponed until we are friends, or we give up trying. She has initiated mediation by a close family friend who we both trust. He happens to have had (unbeknownst to her) extensive experience counselling couples where there are personality disorders. He has indicated to me, after hearing my side of the story, that it will require lengthy family counselling, including the children for any kind of recovery, so I'm not being naive about it.

I have made a decision that I cannot go back into an abusive relationship. I just cannot, even if wanted to. I just have no desire tolerance for it. I know many people on this site advocate a more patient approach, but I've become allergic to the blame, hating, invalidation, hitting, screaming. I said when I left that there would have to be massive change for me to come back, and i am sticking with that too.

It has been 6 months so I'm really at the point where I have made peace with divorce if it comes to that. But for my own peace of mind, I'd like to have given it every possible effort.

[Moselle]

It's like this

them (at first): chase me!  chase me!  chase me!  you're so great!  you're so great!  chase me!

us: you're so great too!  I love that you think I'm so great!  I've never felt like this before!  I give everything I am to you!

them: oh... .ok, excellent.  now I have you.  well, you suck.  I love you, but you suck.  and its your fault.

us: how can I make it better?  what can I do to prove my love and have you feel about me how you once did?

them: keep kissing my arse.  keep taking the blame.  and keep believing that its going to make ANY difference.  the truth, that I'm not telling you, is that it makes me loathe you more.  it makes me want to hurt you more.  i can't help it.  but keep chasing me, and keep taking the blame.  i need you to.  in fact, its the one thing that I am desperate for.

us: but i love you!

them:  I love you too.  but you're a loser, and I'm not sure I want you any more.

us: ok fine... .I'm done.  moving on, now.

them: yeah, right.  bwahahaha

(we start moving on)

them: wait a minute.  maybe there's something here.  i've loved you for so long.  maybe we can give it another try.  i can be respectful... .watch... .

us:  oh... .well, golly.  you are being respectful.  ok, I'm running back.  here I come!  I'm so excited!

them:  (almost immediately losing interest) umm... .don't get too excited, now.  pretty soon I'm going to be clobbering you again.

This actually describes it very accurately LOL. I woke up 6 months ago after 14 years of knowing something was wrong, but not knowing what.

[OutOfEgypt]

I'm sorry that it does, but that's classic BPD so it seems.

[levelup]

It's like this

them (at first): chase me!  chase me!  chase me!  you're so great!  you're so great!  chase me!

us: you're so great too!  I love that you think I'm so great!  I've never felt like this before!  I give everything I am to you!

them: oh... .ok, excellent.  now I have you.  well, you suck.  I love you, but you suck.  and its your fault.

us: how can I make it better?  what can I do to prove my love and have you feel about me how you once did?

them: keep kissing my arse.  keep taking the blame.  and keep believing that its going to make ANY difference.  the truth, that I'm not telling you, is that it makes me loathe you more.  it makes me want to hurt you more.  i can't help it.  but keep chasing me, and keep taking the blame.  i need you to.  in fact, its the one thing that I am desperate for.

us: but i love you!

them:  I love you too.  but you're a loser, and I'm not sure I want you any more.

us: ok fine... .I'm done.  moving on, now.

them: yeah, right.  bwahahaha

(we start moving on)

them: wait a minute.  maybe there's something here.  i've loved you for so long.  maybe we can give it another try.  i can be respectful... .watch... .

us:  oh... .well, golly.  you are being respectful.  ok, I'm running back.  here I come!  I'm so excited!

them:  (almost immediately losing interest) umm... .don't get too excited, now.  pretty soon I'm going to be clobbering you again.

Are you spying on me?  That's pretty much what happened with my spouse and I.