I was trying to use the newly learned SET communications techniques

[waverider]

Remove yourself. Words/demands/ultimatums will have no effect.

You cant stop her from doing anything. You can stop yourself from being subjected to things.

Whatever you choose to do, do it BEFORE it gets you angry.

When you say "Remove yourself", what do you mean?  :)o you mean remove myself physically from the scene or just not let what she is saying affect me?  Thanks.

Whatever it takes, if you can't shut it out, then yes remove yourself physically. I know that is not easy. It helps if you prepare the groundwork so this is an option when it occurs.

Sometimes knowing you can physically do it eases the trapped feeling so that you can let it wash easier if you stay, as that is what YOU are choosing to do. Feeling trapped disables our coping mechanism and raises stress levels

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[thereishope]

I feel this same way about my marriage/husband.

The way I see things going for me is the following:

1.  I establish strong boundaries and learn how to speak more in the SET manner.  I know this will take a long time.

2. Ask for things that I want/need in the relationship.  This can only be done after I've gained a lot confidence in establishing boundaries and mastered the techniques in step 1 above.

How does that sound? 

What has your experience been like?  Have you been able to set boundaries or improve your relationship?  It sounds like you haven't.

I've actually JUST FOUND this message board and it has been SOO freeing/comforting/helpful!... .  I have JUST started trying to implement SET and boundaries in our communication/everyday experience... .I actually think it has helped a little. 

Problem is, the last RAGE time of a few days last week almost entirely convinced me to get the heck out of here for sanity's sake... .I have some kind of emotional hardness and indifference growing inside that is making it harder and harder to deal with each additional RAGE time as they come... .I think somewhere deep inside is acknowledging how WRONG it is to be treated this way... .It is actually hard for me that the last few days have been relatively calm and cool and he has been very loving and talkative, communicating, concerned for how I feel about him... .He asked me if I have seen all the improvements our relationship has had over the last few months... .(there actually have been improvements in the way he has not been beating me up verbally with the details of my past life anymore thank God, but somehow that is being defeated by the angry tone, harsh, evil facial expressions, orders and demands when he wants something, and the choosing to just up and leave me standing there and driving away like he did a few times last week... .) I am fighting in internal desire for the next rage time to just happen, so I can justify the just plain unsettled feeling I have in the pit of my stomach that won't go away... .Is it that I've stopped believing the good parts?  It is a very strange, crazy feeling.

[thereishope]

There's something that I really struggle with.  When she gets upset and the BPD behavior rears its ugly head, there is always some shred of truth to what she is saying.  There will be something that I did wrong and she takes that and really knows how to take advantage of the things that are important to me to try and make me feel guilty.  Her level of hurt and reaction are WAY out of proportion with the actual wrong that I committed.  I have to separate my action and what I should do to repent (apologize, etc) from her behavior.  

For example, we had a recent conflict and she blew up and so did I.  I finally gave in and apologized.  She didn't.  Then she said I need to beg her for forgiveness.  I said "I don't beg", which I think was the right thing to say and I considered that a big success on my part. There are other things that I agreed to that I consider a failure.  I don't want to go into it, but let's just say that it's something that I have to "un"-agree to.  That's the type of thing that I can't do anymore - agree to things I don't want to do b/c of her anger and rage.  She has continued with her BPD behavior ever since then (over a week now), so my appeasement meant nothing.  There will be other things I will "un"-agree to in the future.  First, I have to set my boundaries and stick with them.

I like this.

I am thinking along these same lines.  I agree that the complaints have some basis in truth but are taken to an extreme so they really make me feel really inadequate and guilty, etc... .BUT I see a big need on my part to start "un-agreeing" to submitting myself to simply being the focus of what seems and feels like an all-out attempt of him trying to FIX and RECREATE ALL OF ME.  I didn't marry him because I needed to be "fixed".  I'm sure God is using it to refine me in general, but I believe I need to be stronger and stand up for what's right and wrong in relationships, even for my husband's sake... .It's gonna do him NO good to think it is OK to treat anyone the way it is happening currently when a RAGE occurs.

[thereishope]

I'm thinking of sending her a gentle email reminder of why I'm not taking the initiative and that she can come talk to me anytime I'm free (not when I'm sleeping, etc.).

I think this is a great idea.  You get to express your important thoughts and reminders to her while not entering the "lion's den" of a conversation which would most likely turn abusive.  Hopefully she will read it with "open ears".

[startrekuser]

Hey, startrekuser  



I'm thinking of sending her a gentle email reminder of why I'm not taking the initiative and that she can come talk to me anytime I'm free (not when I'm sleeping, etc.).

I think this is a great idea.  You get to express your important thoughts and reminders to her while not entering the "lion's den" of a conversation which would most likely turn abusive.  Hopefully she will read it with "open ears".

I'm going to do it, but the chances of her responding positively are btw slim and none.  I realized what the problem is here and it's another boundary that I need to establish.  I won't give in to "the silent treatment".  I always do one way or another.  So I will send that email and let her know about this boundary and that if she wants to have a conversation about the latest issue, she'll have to come to me at a convenient time.  I will stick to my plan even through all her manipulation.  She's threatening to move out and she has every right to do so and I will not give in to that.  Whether it's just manipulation or she really plans to move out, I don't know.  That's in G-ds hands.  I have to maintain my self respect.

Dear <name of uBPD wife> ,

You probably feel ignored by me right now since I am not coming to talk to you and that is a very painful feeling.  I care about how these things affect you.  You are important to me.

On Wednesday night, I came to talk to you and I had to experience conversation through a locked door, which included blaming and yelling.  Those are things that I won't suffer through anymore.  I can only be engaged in conversation that is respectful and I'm sure you feel the same way.  So my invitation is still open to have a respectful, positive conversation to resolve our latest issue and to make sure this type of issue doesn't repeat itself.  When you are ready to do that, come to me at a time that is convenient to both of us.  (Right before bedtime and in the middle of the night are not convenient for me.  Also, I don't like being woken up at any time unnecessarily).  I came to you to talk on Wednesday and the conversation was far from respectful, so now I would like you to come to me.   Let's resolve this issue and move on to build a happy marriage.

Love,  Startrek

[thereishope]

I'm going to do it, but the chances of her responding positively are btw slim and none.  I realized what the problem is here and it's another boundary that I need to establish.  I won't give in to "the silent treatment".  I always do one way or another.  So I will send that email and let her know about this boundary and that if she wants to have a conversation about the latest issue, she'll have to come to me at a convenient time.  I will stick to my plan even through all her manipulation.  She's threatening to move out and she has every right to do so and I will not give in to that.  Whether it's just manipulation or she really plans to move out, I don't know.  That's in G-ds hands.  I have to maintain my self respect.

Dear <name of uBPD wife> ,

You probably feel ignored by me right now since I am not coming to talk to you and that is a very painful feeling.  I care about how these things affect you.  You are important to me.

On Wednesday night, I came to talk to you and I had to experience conversation through a locked door, which included blaming and yelling.  Those are things that I won't suffer through anymore.  I can only be engaged in conversation that is respectful and I'm sure you feel the same way.  So my invitation is still open to have a respectful, positive conversation to resolve our latest issue and to make sure this type of issue doesn't repeat itself.  When you are ready to do that, come to me at a time that is convenient to both of us.  (Right before bedtime and in the middle of the night are not convenient for me.  Also, I don't like being woken up at any time unnecessarily).  I came to you to talk on Wednesday and the conversation was far from respectful, so now I would like you to come to me.   Let's resolve this issue and move on to build a happy marriage.

Love,  Startrek

That sounds very good!  You are validating her real feelings,  and also expressing your valid request for respect and healthy communication… . you also show you are seeking success and happiness with her in the future. Well done!  The results ARE in God's hands… but we all can bathe it in lots of prayer!  :)ear Lord,  let her ears be open! !

[Skip]

I tried speaking to my wife like I said and had to leave the conversation b/c of her abusive and disrespectful behavior.  I told her that when she's ready to have a respectful conversation to come to me.  Now she won't talk to me and avoids me like I have the plague.  I know that she wants me to come to her to talk, but I really don't want to.

startrekuser,

I know you are looking for the answer and this may seem very reasonable from your side of the cycle of conflict, but this is a lot of conflict. You will not likely get a positive response to this letter - and if you received a similar letter from her, you would not respond favorably.

We can get so wrapped up in these battles, we can't see it, but to an outsider, its pretty clear.  This is why support groups are so great.  

Before we can have any meaningful conversation, we have to cool things down and open up the lines of communication.  

This is a step by step process.  Initially we need to put our agenda aside (only strategically) and focus on the other person.

You know her.  What does she want to hear right now?  How can you listen to her?.  This is leadership that is needed.  This is re-training the relationship.

Let's look at that first.

Here is a great video:

https://bpdfamily.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-importance-of-empathy-skills-when.html

Skip

[waverider]

startrekuser, I would be careful about sending notes they are invariably received as accusations which triggers defense and aggressive reactions. Once sent they can't be unsent and will join their pile of "evidence" to twist and throw back at you.

They increase the trench war mentality.

Actions invariable achieve more than words ever can when dealing with a pwBPD

[waverider]

I am fighting in internal desire for the next rage time to just happen, so I can justify the just plain unsettled feeling I have in the pit of my stomach that won't go away... .Is it that I've stopped believing the good parts?  It is a very strange, crazy feeling.

This feeling is common. It is however destructive, a sign of resentment building up. Resentment is a relationship killer. Unless addressed it will escalate everything. You will be primed to snipe back and take a passive aggressive stance. The pwBPD will sense this, become more defensive in return. You head quickly into a bad place.

You need to break this cycle, which will mean taking a step back, learning to not take things as literally (good or bad), create yourself some space so that you can be more objective rather than reactive. being reactive is your part in the equation and the part you can control. It is also the part that makes things worse than they need be.

[startrekuser]

I tried speaking to my wife like I said and had to leave the conversation b/c of her abusive and disrespectful behavior.  I told her that when she's ready to have a respectful conversation to come to me.  Now she won't talk to me and avoids me like I have the plague.  I know that she wants me to come to her to talk, but I really don't want to.

startrekuser,

I know you are looking for the answer and this may seem very reasonable from your side of the cycle of conflict, but this is a lot of conflict. You will not likely get a positive response to this letter - and if you received a similar letter from her, you would not respond favorably.

We can get so wrapped up in these battles, we can't see it, but to an outsider, its pretty clear.  This is why support groups are so great.  

Before we can have any meaningful conversation, we have to cool things down and open up the lines of communication.  

This is a step by step process.  Initially we need to put our agenda aside (only strategically) and focus on the other person.

You know her.  What does she want to hear right now?  How can you listen to her?.  This is leadership that is needed.  This is re-training the relationship.

Let's look at that first.

Here is a great video:

https://bpdfamily.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-importance-of-empathy-skills-when.html

Skip

Skip, I don't know what she wants to hear.  Did you read my letter?  Is that what you were referring to?  You didn't quote my letter in your message so that's why I'm asking.  Thanks for your help.

[startrekuser]

I tried speaking to my wife like I said and had to leave the conversation b/c of her abusive and disrespectful behavior.  I told her that when she's ready to have a respectful conversation to come to me.  Now she won't talk to me and avoids me like I have the plague.  I know that she wants me to come to her to talk, but I really don't want to.

startrekuser,

I know you are looking for the answer and this may seem very reasonable from your side of the cycle of conflict, but this is a lot of conflict. You will not likely get a positive response to this letter - and if you received a similar letter from her, you would not respond favorably.

We can get so wrapped up in these battles, we can't see it, but to an outsider, its pretty clear.  This is why support groups are so great.  

Before we can have any meaningful conversation, we have to cool things down and open up the lines of communication.  

This is a step by step process.  Initially we need to put our agenda aside (only strategically) and focus on the other person.

You know her.  What does she want to hear right now?  How can you listen to her?.  This is leadership that is needed.  This is re-training the relationship.

Let's look at that first.

Here is a great video:

https://bpdfamily.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-importance-of-empathy-skills-when.html

Skip

I watched the above video and then started reading about empathy in the "How do we become more empathetic to the pwBPD in our life?" forum.  Frankly, I don't think I can empathize with the feelings of hurt (by me) my wife has expressed to me.  It's not in me.

[Skip]

Frankly, I don't think I can empathize with the feelings of hurt (by me) my wife has expressed to me.  It's not in me.

Understandable.

She most likely feels the same.

This is why you are in conflict.

Resentments are often justified - but are they helpful? 

This may help:   bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=135831.0

[startrekuser]

Frankly, I don't think I can empathize with the feelings of hurt (by me) my wife has expressed to me.  It's not in me.

Understandable.

She most likely feels the same.

This is why you are in conflict.

Resentments are often justified - but are they helpful? 

This may help:   bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=135831.0

Thank you Skip for spending so much time responding to my posts.  I know that you are heavily involved with this web site and I'm sure there are many other forums you're involved in.

I feel like I've been in the same fight 1000 times and I've ended up on the mat, so to speak, every time.  I don't have any positive feelings for my wife.  There are times when we have peace and I praise her as much as possible and I feel like she's an acquaintance who I live with and is also a parent of our daughter, but I don't feel anything like loving feelings towards her.  Even when I take her out for the evening, I try to enjoy her company and to show her a good time, but the feeling isn't there.  To me, she's mostly my tormentor, my enemy, who can rise up and strike at me at any time.  There's no emotional intimacy and no physical intimacy (she refuses that). 

The main feeling I have about her is "I don't care".  I don't care what she says or what she thinks or what she feels.    I'll go along with her most of the time to keep the peace, but I mainly don't care anymore.  There was a time I was willing to do almost anything to save our relationship, but I don't feel that way anymore.  I don't feel like I have the energy to make an effort to feel empathy towards her.  I often just wish she would go away.  In fact, days that I spend without her are my favorite days.

It seems like her only emotion is anger when she's upset.  I keep thinking that all the times she was upset at me, that if she actually cried, I would have felt terrible.  Instead, she hurls abuse at me and I feel zero empathy towards her, whether the issue is valid or not.  And once she abuses me, I feel hardened towards her with no good feelings.

[waverider]

startrekuser, what are your goals? Where do you want to be?

A worthwhile future for you is not going to be achieved by drawing up battle lines and attempting to shoot it out. You can get stuck in that mode until something snaps.

Are you more in the undecided whether you want to stay camp, or are you committed to staying? You sound as though you are feeling a sense of terminal failure rather than just being lost.

It is obvious something needs to change to get rid of the this resentment one way or another.

What is there in this relationship for you that you feel is worth staying for?

How do you see yourself moving forward in the longer picture?

[DreamFlyer99]

One thing that helped me have true empathy and understanding was when I did step back in an attempt to be more "objective than reactive" as was just stated previously and my eyes were opened to the fact that my husband when in an argument saw me as if he were a small child on the playground and I was a bully.

His emotional intelligence is more of a child. To him he was standing his ground and I was trying to push him around and steal his milk money.

And this would be over something like me saying "i think it would be good if we could learn some communication skills." Whatever I said pretty much he took as an attack that I was saying he "wasn't good enough." Then he'd defend. Then i'd defend. Then it was a whole silly and unnecessary fight.

Big things I take from this discussion and my own life are:

1- The definition of insane is to do the same thing over and over expecting a different outcome: so we have to make a change.

2- If we aren't making the change with the good of the r/s in mind and acting in love, don't bother.

3- LIVE your boundaries. (I am a huuuge talker and somehow thought a deluge of words might somehow convince him of what I wanted and needed--didn't work and didn't work some more. See point 1.)

Basically do as has been suggested and STEP AWAY FROM THE WHEEL. And use that Boundaries piece to REASSESS what you really want.

df99

[startrekuser]

startrekuser, what are your goals? Where do you want to be?

A worthwhile future for you is not going to be achieved by drawing up battle lines and attempting to shoot it out. You can get stuck in that mode until something snaps.

Are you more in the undecided whether you want to stay camp, or are you committed to staying? You sound as though you are feeling a sense of terminal failure rather than just being lost.

It is obvious something needs to change to get rid of the this resentment one way or another.

What is there in this relationship for you that you feel is worth staying for?

How do you see yourself moving forward in the longer picture?

Our daughter is worth staying for.  Yes, I do feel a sense of terminal failure and I've felt that way for a little over a year.  I feel like I can set boundaries, but that will make her more angry.  I don't feel like I can empathize  at this point.  My goals are to have a relationship where we are best friends and have a strong emotional and physical intimate relationship.  It just seems like we've failed so many times at achieving this and we are so far from it, that it seems impossible and I often feel empty and depressed over this.  On the other hand, I'm not one to give up so here I am.  Where I go and what I do next, I don't know.

[Skip]

It's not easy.  You are both pretty wounded right now.

Keep posting - keep working it.

[startrekuser]

... .the fact that my husband when in an argument saw me as if he were a small child on the playground and I was a bully.

His emotional intelligence is more of a child. To him he was standing his ground and I was trying to push him around and steal his milk money.

df99

I see what you are saying about the bully/child thing.  Obviously, it's an alternative reality, but maybe that's my wife's reality.  If that's the case, then maybe she feels like she has to retaliate in order to defend herself against me (the bully) in order to keep from being bullied.  Then, in reality, she ends up acting like a bully and sees herself as the victim.  It's crazy, but it makes sense.  It's ironic, because I'm the most mild mannered man.  I'm not threatening to anybody.

[Olinda]

I read the whole thread and just wanted to reply to you, startrekuser.

It really helped me to understand that when triggered my uBPD fiancee is feeling like a little child.  And my logic or what I believe is rational are not going to go over well.  What others are stating about using validation is the only thing that worked for me when in conflict. 

And I hear you saying that you can't validate her 'hurt by me' emotions because that feels like giving in and 'being a doormat'.  And yet, there is always a nugget of truth in what the BPD person is saying. Try validating that nugget of truth, the emotions behind it. 

For example:

To end the silent treatment you have going on right now you might say something like:

(in person)

Honey, I miss you.  It is obvious you are still feeling hurt by the last interaction we had, can we set a time to talk about this?  (A time when kids are gone or asleep, neither one of you is late for work or other commitments, etc).

And she will likely go off on her tangent as she usually does. And you can validate the emotions behind what she is saying. Does she feel abandoned? Rejected? Scared? Alone? Criticized? Validation does not mean that you are agreeing with her that you wanted to scare her or abandon her or reject her or criticize her. Validation means that you are meeting her where she is, trying to understand what it is like to be her. 

Saying to her: "It sounds like you are feeling very angry because you feel I should be paying more attention to you, is that right?  I hear you. That is an awful way to feel.  What do you need from me right now?"

You aren't agreeing that you have abandoned her, you are agreeing that it feels terrible to feel abandoned!  Do you see the difference? I have not read any of your other threads so don't know what specific topics you are dealing with right now.

And if this deteriorates into yelling and namecalling, you have a right to lovingly disengage and state: "I don't feel safe being yelled at but would love to discuss this more after a break when we are both calmer."

Read up on Extinction Bursts, because you are likely to experience some if you continue to enforce your boundary of no yelling or namecalling.

I feel for you and know that this is a very hard place to be, at the beginning of this process. Good luck to you and keep getting great advice on here!

[startrekuser]

I read the whole thread and just wanted to reply to you, startrekuser.

It really helped me to understand that when triggered my uBPD fiancee is feeling like a little child.  And my logic or what I believe is rational are not going to go over well.  What others are stating about using validation is the only thing that worked for me when in conflict. 

And I hear you saying that you can't validate her 'hurt by me' emotions because that feels like giving in and 'being a doormat'.  And yet, there is always a nugget of truth in what the BPD person is saying. Try validating that nugget of truth, the emotions behind it. 

For example:

To end the silent treatment you have going on right now you might say something like:

(in person)

Honey, I miss you.  It is obvious you are still feeling hurt by the last interaction we had, can we set a time to talk about this?  (A time when kids are gone or asleep, neither one of you is late for work or other commitments, etc).

And she will likely go off on her tangent as she usually does. And you can validate the emotions behind what she is saying. Does she feel abandoned? Rejected? Scared? Alone? Criticized? Validation does not mean that you are agreeing with her that you wanted to scare her or abandon her or reject her or criticize her. Validation means that you are meeting her where she is, trying to understand what it is like to be her. 

Saying to her: "It sounds like you are feeling very angry because you feel I should be paying more attention to you, is that right?  I hear you. That is an awful way to feel.  What do you need from me right now?"

You aren't agreeing that you have abandoned her, you are agreeing that it feels terrible to feel abandoned!  Do you see the difference? I have not read any of your other threads so don't know what specific topics you are dealing with right now.

And if this deteriorates into yelling and namecalling, you have a right to lovingly disengage and state: "I don't feel safe being yelled at but would love to discuss this more after a break when we are both calmer."

Read up on Extinction Bursts, because you are likely to experience some if you continue to enforce your boundary of no yelling or namecalling.

I feel for you and know that this is a very hard place to be, at the beginning of this process. Good luck to you and keep getting great advice on here!

Thank you Olinda.  I think my wife's issues are related to older brother going back to childhood.  Apparently he got into trouble a lot and his father wanted to discipline him but his mother insisted on letting him be and the father gave in to the mother.  So there was a lot of turmoil in the house.  It doesn't sound like enough, though, to make my wife SO angry about it.  There could be more (worse) that she's not telling me

[waverider]

... .the fact that my husband when in an argument saw me as if he were a small child on the playground and I was a bully.

His emotional intelligence is more of a child. To him he was standing his ground and I was trying to push him around and steal his milk money.

df99

I see what you are saying about the bully/child thing.  Obviously, it's an alternative reality, but maybe that's my wife's reality.  If that's the case, then maybe she feels like she has to retaliate in order to defend herself against me (the bully) in order to keep from being bullied.  Then, in reality, she ends up acting like a bully and sees herself as the victim.  It's crazy, but it makes sense.  It's ironic, because I'm the most mild mannered man.  I'm not threatening to anybody.

This is exactly it. My partner has tales of extreme bullying at every point in her live, at every work place, by all family members, and in every social setting. What is apparent now it was simply the result of people reacting to her trampling on their boundaries or not putting in her bit.

Ultimately she triggers everyone. The result is they either abandon her or push back (perceived bullying). Whichever result she is always the victim.

[DreamFlyer99]

Whichever result she is always the victim.

EXACTLY Waverider! My uBPDh has been the victim of entire companies he's worked for!

Startrekuser, i'm one of the mild-mannered ones myself. That's why I had such a hard time understanding why my H was doing what he was doing to me, saying what he was saying. i'd think "But I would never say that to him!"

[startrekuser]

Whichever result she is always the victim.

EXACTLY Waverider! My uBPDh has been the victim of entire companies he's worked for!

Startrekuser, i'm one of the mild-mannered ones myself. That's why I had such a hard time understanding why my H was doing what he was doing to me, saying what he was saying. i'd think "But I would never say that to him!"

Thanks Wave and thanks everyone for discussing this with me.  It really helps.  I'm definitely starting to think in another direction.  I want to try and empathize with my wife as difficult as it may be.  Tonight I wanted to give it a shot, but I can't get myself to do it.  Tomorrow I'll have to talk to a friend or friends to get some moral support.  I'm just not ready.

[DreamFlyer99]

It's a mindset you can get to Startrekuser--

Since you've been feeling so hurt it's difficult to look at how she feels, that's absolutely a normal response! And in these intense r/s it's easy to lose sight of the person we are as separate from our loved one with BPD, we tend to get all mixed together in reacting to each other.

When we are able to take a step back, take a deep breath, and look from the standpoint of our knowledge and understanding of what difficulties our loved one is dealing with, the compassion and empathy will come.

The exciting bit is that YOU get to break the cycle of conflict.

[startrekuser]

I remember when I was a newlywed 14 years ago, my wife went off on me about something.  What that's behavior called - dys something)?  Anyway, her behavior seemed crazy and really scary to me. In fact I remember thinking: "I really screwed up my life by marrying this lunatic."  She was pregnant at the time.  I was calm and really tried to calm her down in a nice way.  Nothing worked.  Somehow this craziness became a normal discussion and she said "Starktrek - Help me!"  I said OK, but I never really knew what kind of help she needed.  Now, 14 years later, I'm beginning to understand.   

[waverider]

I remember when I was a newlywed 14 years ago, my wife went off on me about something.  What that's behavior called - dys something)?  Anyway, her behavior seemed crazy and really scary to me. In fact I remember thinking: "I really screwed up my life by marrying this lunatic."  She was pregnant at the time.  I was calm and really tried to calm her down in a nice way.  Nothing worked.  Somehow this craziness became a normal discussion and she said "Starktrek - Help me!"  I said OK, but I never really knew what kind of help she needed.  Now, 14 years later, I'm beginning to understand.   

Dysregulation. It is when it becomes impossible to regulate the emotions, loss of control. There is little reasoning at this point. The mixed hormones during pregnancy combined with raised stressed levels would have triggered this. It is near impossible to "fix" someone in this state. All you can do is not make it worse, and give them space to get over the worst of it.

[Skip]

Now, 14 years later, I'm beginning to understand.   

I hope the lessons here and the attitudes taught make a difference in your life.  There is a lot you can do, and when it starts making a difference, you will feel better and so will she.

You're not going to fix her.  But you can lead the relationship improvement and try to motivate her.

And then you can evaluate your options with a clearer head and a clearer view of reality.

[startrekuser]

Now, 14 years later, I'm beginning to understand.   

I hope the lessons here and the attitudes taught make a difference in your life.  There is a lot you can do, and when it starts making a difference, you will feel better and so will she.

You're not going to fix her.  But you can lead the relationship improvement and try to motivate her.

And then you can evaluate your options with a clearer head and a clearer view of reality.

Thanks. I'm a nervous wreck.  Very stressed out and very tired. I'm going to see a therapist to help deal with all of this.

[Skip]

Good idea.

Keep posting.  We all learn from one another.

[startrekuser]

Good idea.

Keep posting.  We all learn from one another.

The problem I have right now in speaking to my wife is that I'm afraid of her.  Going to talk to her will be like entering the lions den.  That's how I view it.  I have to think of her as a scared, very small child who can't harm me.  Is that the right approach?  I just think of the things I know will happen - blaming, shaming, yelling, anger, cursing, raging.  I can leave at any point.  I have to remember that.  Of course, she gets more angry when I leave the conversation.  I guess I can just say that the conversation has become disrespectful so I'm going to take a break now.   We can resume in X minutes.  She might rage, so then I leave the scene or the house if necessary.