i changed to here from 'staying'.Cannot decide

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

my story is the same,started incredibly amazingly,loved each other to death,3 months later fiance started changing,started shouting,blaming,raging,arguing about why i never texted him before leaving the house,why i preferred to sleep early instead of waiting for him (WE DIDNT/DONT EVEN LIVE TOGETHER... ) why was i making life harder for HIM by being depressed,'yes off course he understood i was depressed,but why wasnt i undepressed by now'',i started thinking i wasnt showing enough love to him,i kept feeling it was my fault,6 months after being called a princess,his love,the only one who understood him,the shining star in the sky ,i was called a b___, with f you with damn your existence  

i finally realized he has BPD,after all his disrespecting,i lost respect for him,and then i tried not to lose my love for him yet day by day it started getting lesser until i lost it too (honestly despite efforts  )

now i have a fiance who 'needs' me when he's down,but i believe even he doesnt love me anymore.

the trouble however is that i have mental issues to my own credit too  

social anxiety,hard for me to express correctly what i want to express,yet i have never hurt a person,never been vicious to an SO.all this results in a low self esteem for me,and it leads me to believe i cannot survive on my own,i have a degree which can get me a good job,but i have a hard time even giving myself credit for acquiring it because of my social phobia/anxiety. i read somewhere that we should never stop fighting throughout our lives,we should keep striving for what we want and never give up,but that is the hard way.

with my fiance,its horrendous,but  its easy,he has millions with inheritance,a large house in the 'poshest' of areas,but what good will money and security do me if im miserable,with a husband that wont even leave me alone for peace's sake. people say money cannot buy happiness,well in a BPD relationship it cannot even silence and peace

then there's the pressure from my family 'to get married and settled soon' their happiness in him being secure and nice (to them he is,completely functional and the symbol of politeness with you firsts and what nots included)

i am from a different country and culture that doesnt give much chance to women,much less single women,most men are chauvinists and religious fanatics with the religious fanaticism to only apply to women,and if it doesnt apply then that woman is a social outcast  ,i want to go to a country or culture that gives us a chance,that has always been my dream.ironically with fiance's money we could move with a simple plane ticket,but 'we' could, along with his irrationality,his controlling-ness' his extreme possessiveness,jealousy,accusations of cheating and rages,his hypersexuality that repulses me. (repulses me because that is the only thing he wants to talk and do,he tries to make out with me even when i say a firm definitive no,or im sick with migraine or head cold. once while kissing me (when i used to like him) i said we shouldnt because my culture and family are a bit narrow about it and they were in the other room,he kept 'slobering up my face' with my 'no,stop now lets go back' just meaning to him 'go on,i just need a little bit more seduction to get turned on' he backed away from me,exposed his 'you know what' to me and said 'look' i fled down the stairs traumatized out of my mind about what or why he had done it

i am attatched to him,perhaps from conditioning,or from being together for a year long,but just as a friend.any sexual advance or talk from him repulses me,i dont love him.

yet all of the pros of future security,financial security however miserable,and scared of going just alone into the unknown,and if broken up from him, the dreaded pressure from parents to find a husband soon to live with, should i marry this person?

[stuckgirl]

my story is the same,started incredibly amazingly,loved each other to death,3 months later fiance started changing,started shouting,blaming,raging,arguing about why i never texted him before leaving the house,why i preferred to sleep early instead of waiting for him (WE DIDNT/DONT EVEN LIVE TOGETHER... ) why was i making life harder for HIM by being depressed,'yes off course he understood i was depressed,but why wasnt i undepressed by now'',i started thinking i wasnt showing enough love to him,i kept feeling it was my fault,6 months after being called a princess,his love,the only one who understood him,the shining star in the sky ,i was called a b___, with f you with damn your existence  

i finally realized he has BPD,after all his disrespecting,i lost respect for him,and then i tried not to lose my love for him yet day by day it started getting lesser until i lost it too (honestly despite efforts  )

now i have a fiance who 'needs' me when he's down,but i believe even he doesnt love me anymore.

the trouble however is that i have mental issues to my own credit too  

social anxiety,hard for me to express correctly what i want to express,yet i have never hurt a person,never been vicious to an SO.all this results in a low self esteem for me,and it leads me to believe i cannot survive on my own,i have a degree which can get me a good job,but i have a hard time even giving myself credit for acquiring it because of my social phobia/anxiety. i read somewhere that we should never stop fighting throughout our lives,we should keep striving for what we want and never give up,but that is the hard way.

with my fiance,its horrendous,but  its easy,he has millions with inheritance,a large house in the 'poshest' of areas,but what good will money and security do me if im miserable,with a husband that wont even leave me alone for peace's sake. people say money cannot buy happiness,well in a BPD relationship it cannot even silence and peace

then there's the pressure from my family 'to get married and settled soon' their happiness in him being secure and nice (to them he is,completely functional and the symbol of politeness with you firsts and what nots included)

i am from a different country and culture that doesnt give much chance to women,much less single women,most men are chauvinists and religious fanatics with the religious fanaticism to only apply to women,and if it doesnt apply then that woman is a social outcast  ,i want to go to a country or culture that gives us a chance,that has always been my dream.ironically with fiance's money we could move with a simple plane ticket,but 'we' could, along with his irrationality,his controlling-ness' his extreme possessiveness,jealousy,accusations of cheating and rages,his hypersexuality that repulses me. (repulses me because that is the only thing he wants to talk and do,he tries to make out with me even when i say a firm definitive no,or im sick with migraine or head cold. once while kissing me (when i used to like him) i said we shouldnt because my culture and family are a bit narrow about it and they were in the other room,he kept 'slobering up my face' with my 'no,stop now lets go back' just meaning to him 'go on,i just need a little bit more seduction to get turned on' he backed away from me,exposed his 'you know what' to me and said 'look' i fled down the stairs traumatized out of my mind about what or why he had done it

i am attatched to him,perhaps from conditioning,or from being together for a year long,but just as a friend.any sexual advance or talk from him repulses me,i dont love him.

yet all of the pros of future security,financial security however miserable,and scared of going just alone into the unknown,and if broken up from him, the dreaded pressure from parents to find a husband soon to live with, should i marry this person?

[stuckgirl]

anyone? 

[stuckgirl]

ugh ive pretty much rambled in my msg,anyone still fee like replying? 

[123Phoebe]

Hi stuckgirl,

should i marry this person?

I'm not fluent in different cultures ideals of marriage, so I apologize for not totally grasping what it is you're asking.  From what you've courageously mentioned here though, it doesn't sound like you're all that crazy about the idea?

What would be the number one reason for marrying him?  There are a few listed, but what is #1?

Maybe we can start small and build from that... .  Does that sound good?

[stuckgirl]

the number one reason would be his sticking with me despite my social anxiety and trouble about expressing myself with words... .i dont believe anyone else could love me with the mess i have become since the psychological issues started... .often i cant think of anything to say 

the number two reason would be my fear of facing the future independently,although i really want to work,but i think the psychological issues prevent me from it.i would be financially dependent on him if i married him (knowing how horrible a scenario it is to be financially dependent on a person with BPD)

yet i dont love him... .he's a potential sex addict (addicted to porn and masturbation),and according to 'wikipedia' definition those addictions are included in a sex addiction... .though he does a good job of keeping it under control,because watching porn and masturbation make him feel ashamed and very depressed,i try to encourage him to stay away from both of them (T advises that is essential for someone who has developed an addiction for porn or masturbation to stay away) i worry about him incessantly sometimes,i do care a lot about him

but i dont love him anymore,and,i know it sounds horrible,but even being physical with him repulses me because he took some of my initial hesitation as 'encouragement',ignored and still ignores a 'no' from me. the more uncomfortable i get or stay away the more he tries to 'seduce' me , saying please and continuing to grope and touch,if i pull away he accuses me of not loving him,so i never stay alone with him in a room.

so im genuinely confused,we dont live together.

sorry for the long post again.

[123Phoebe]

Please tell me if I'm reading this wrong, stuckgirl; I'd really like to help you find some clarity.  It sounds like you're not confused at all, to me   That the psychological issues you're experiencing (because of him, I'm assuming), are pretty much the only reasons why you would want to marry him.  Other than that, you're repulsed by him.

If you find it hard being alone in a room with him, how does living a lifetime of feeling that way sound to you?

By any chance are you finding it harder to leave him than to stay with him?  Are you afraid of him?

We're here to help!

[pallavirajsinghani]

Hello Stuckgirl:

In my opinion, you do not have a choice to stay if you do not allow yourself the choice to go.  The decision is not a rational decision, it is an emotional decision.  Again, it is neither immoral if you stay, nor immoral if you go.

What is immoral is if you stay without fully and completely wanting to.

Or,

If you leave without fully and completely wanting to.

And decisions do not occur at the blink of an eye.  These are organic processes.  Let them be organic and take their time.

These emotional decisions however, should be executed rationally.

So for example, you should prepare all the logistics of leaving:  save money, have the moving company researched, have the location where you want the apartment ready, finances separated out etc. etc. etc.   When you have completely given yourself permission to leave and also the means to leave.  Only then will your instinct tell you whether to leave or not.

Your instinct may tell you to stay and then after a time, it may tell you to leave... .you may go back and forth a few times in your mind.

Just understand that it is a mental and emotional process... .try to get guilt, shame, fear out of the equation... .

[pallavirajsinghani]

I just read your post again... .and I think that we may belong to similar cultures.  In that case, your choice is not to physically leave, but rather, whether to say no to this marriage or not, so some of what I said above, may not apply to you at all.  Forgive me... .

Please feel free to talk to me privately using the "message" board here.

Understand that our cultures do not allow sexual release outside of the marriage... .so the masturbation, porn addiction, could it be a safer release for him rather than the dangers involved in visiting prostitutes?

Is there a kernal of fear of sex in you because in our cultures you are supposed to be a virgin before marriage as well, our cultures can suppress sexuality to a level where even thinking about it brings shame and repulsion.

My best advice is not to get pressured either way... .allow your intuition to guide you.

[stuckgirl]

Please tell me if I'm reading this wrong, stuckgirl; I'd really like to help you find some clarity.  It sounds like you're not confused at all, to me   That the psychological issues you're experiencing (because of him, I'm assuming), are pretty much the only reasons why you would want to marry him.  Other than that, you're repulsed by him.

If you find it hard being alone in a room with him, how does living a lifetime of feeling that way sound to you?

By any chance are you finding it harder to leave him than to stay with him?  Are you afraid of him?

We're here to help!

i am afraid of him in a way that he knows some things about me that could ruin my family life and if i try initiating a break up with him,he might let them know out of revenge.

my psychological issues were there before his coming into my life,i do not want to stay,that is right,but i dont know what i'll do if i leave.,like pallavi said,our cultures are very very different with women,we're social outcasts even if we rent an apartment to live alone.

i wasnt repulsed by him initially,i still like being close to him,or simply holding hands,but any sexual advance from him looks to me like a cloying,hungry baby,which repulses me...

and yet (for no reason) he ignored me all day being completely uncaring ,and im a complete mess

i treated him nicely and he booted me to the pavement when he felt like it.

i dont even know where my self esteem is its so out of sight,i feel guilty talking to my brothers,being with them or hanging with my famiy because i dont want 'problem riddled battered  me in their happy company'

[123Phoebe]

Hi stuckgirl,

I'm sorry for misreading what you clearly stated about your psychological issues.

I believe this is a little out of my realm, as I'm not well versed in other cultures, in terms of how women are viewed and treated; do not feel confident in giving you any form of sound and safe 'advice'.

I care though , and hope that you'll take pallavirajsinghani up on her gracious offer of speaking with her directly.

I hope you find your way to peace very soon... .

[HopefulDad]

Your dilemma reads like this, so please correct where I'm wrong:

- Option A is to marry him and likely live a miserable life since he's suffering a PD, but at least you'll have some financial security and save face with your family per cultural norms.

- Option B is to leave him and put up with the fear of the unknown as far as any future spouse and financial footing is concerned.  Yes, you will also face backlash from family and friends for breaking cultural norms.

If I've got this down more or less right, I'd take option B in a heartbeat.  It's a hard road for sure, but at least there appears to be a bit more room to improve your lot in life.  Option A seems like surrender, one that may appear to be the better option now, but will unfold over time to be the regretful choice.

Best of luck to you in whichever direction you choose.

[ultramarine]

Hi stuckgirl

I felt very sad while reading your post, because I think I belong to the same culture as yours and about 5 years ago, I was in the same place as you are now, about to make the same mistake. But there was no one to guide me and I went ahead and married him. I want to list some of the similarities in our situation:

My family 'forced' me to marry him.

I was suffering poor self-esteem because I was already a divorcee. I understand how marriage and divorce is viewed in our culture. It was very difficult to get a good guy to 'accept' you. So when this one person stood up for me, I stuck on to him, thinking that I may never find anybody else again.

Just like you, I was totally aware of all the danger signs, but I overlooked them, thinking that he'd AT LEAST provide me with a comfortable  and dignified life in the society.

I was so scared of leaving him, because I didn't know what was worse: being with him and taking his abuse, or going back to parents and taking their taunts and swearwords.

I went ahead and married him. Forget the comfort and financial security, Stuckgirl... .I spent the next two and half years of my life fighting a painful divorce and clearing a terrible mess, that included smashed car windows, and glasses hurled at me and money siphoned from my account and a knife at my throat one night, threatening to kill me if I didn't do as he said.

And I got to mention here, that when he demanded sex, you HAD to give it, whether you felt disgusted, raped or in extreme pain. He'll come and do it till you bleed, all the while claiming how much he loves you.

Take my advice. Do not marry him.

Secondly, how to tell him that you don't want him? I totally understand how frightened you are about him coming back to ruin your future. For that may be you'll have to be strong and pour your heart out to someone in the family. May be an aunt, or an elder sister. Or a grandmother. Or a family friend. Yes, it seems tough, but there can be surprises. My family is also very jaded in their thoughts, and it took them a few months, but eventually when they saw how much I was gasping for breath and how much this man troubled me, they stood by me.

Your family may initially hold you guilty for what you have done, but there must be some person somewhere in the hierarchy who is a little broad-minded and may stand by you. Find this person and confide in him/her that you are in a troubled relationship and do not wish to go ahead. If you are lucky and find support, then getting out will be much easier. Nothing like family standing by you. Try it out. You'll just have to be smart & convincing about your dilemma, without making it sound scandalous.

So do first things first and talk to someone. It will be the most difficult day of your life, opening up to someone, but you'll look back later and thank yourself for it

All the best. 

[stuckgirl]

Hi stuckgirl,

I'm sorry for misreading what you clearly stated about your psychological issues.

I believe this is a little out of my realm, as I'm not well versed in other cultures, in terms of how women are viewed and treated; do not feel confident in giving you any form of sound and safe 'advice'.

I care though , and hope that you'll take pallavirajsinghani up on her gracious offer of speaking with her directly.

I hope you find your way to peace very soon... .

Oh not at all you got me pretty good,the foot long post is hard enough to read to even.thanks a lot :-)

[stuckgirl]

Hi stuckgirl

I felt very sad while reading your post, because I think I belong to the same culture as yours and about 5 years ago, I was in the same place as you are now, about to make the same mistake. But there was no one to guide me and I went ahead and married him. I want to list some of the similarities in our situation:

My family 'forced' me to marry him.

I was suffering poor self-esteem because I was already a divorcee. I understand how marriage and divorce is viewed in our culture. It was very difficult to get a good guy to 'accept' you. So when this one person stood up for me, I stuck on to him, thinking that I may never find anybody else again.

Just like you, I was totally aware of all the danger signs, but I overlooked them, thinking that he'd AT LEAST provide me with a comfortable  and dignified life in the society.

I was so scared of leaving him, because I didn't know what was worse: being with him and taking his abuse, or going back to parents and taking their taunts and swearwords.

I went ahead and married him. Forget the comfort and financial security, Stuckgirl... .I spent the next two and half years of my life fighting a painful divorce and clearing a terrible mess, that included smashed car windows, and glasses hurled at me and money siphoned from my account and a knife at my throat one night, threatening to kill me if I didn't do as he said.

And I got to mention here, that when he demanded sex, you HAD to give it, whether you felt disgusted, raped or in extreme pain. He'll come and do it till you bleed, all the while claiming how much he loves you.

Take my advice. Do not marry him.

Secondly, how to tell him that you don't want him? I totally understand how frightened you are about him coming back to ruin your future. For that may be you'll have to be strong and pour your heart out to someone in the family. May be an aunt, or an elder sister. Or a grandmother. Or a family friend. Yes, it seems tough, but there can be surprises. My family is also very jaded in their thoughts, and it took them a few months, but eventually when they saw how much I was gasping for breath and how much this man troubled me, they stood by me.

Your family may initially hold you guilty for what you have done, but there must be some person somewhere in the hierarchy who is a little broad-minded and may stand by you. Find this person and confide in him/her that you are in a troubled relationship and do not wish to go ahead. If you are lucky and find support, then getting out will be much easier. Nothing like family standing by you. Try it out. You'll just have to be smart & convincing about your dilemma, without making it sound scandalous.

So do first things first and talk to someone. It will be the most difficult day of your life, opening up to someone, but you'll look back later and thank yourself for it

All the best. 

Im so sorry to hear that your family forced you,believe it or not,i exactly understand what youre saying.

the family pressure is awful,that you have reached that age and must 'unburden' them from an unmarried daughter and the shame of it before age deems us unmarriageable,(not that they ever put it that way) but want whats best for our physical and mental happiness in this horrible social structure.

Do you think that pwBpd behave more  badly in our societies because they expect women to behave meekly,never experience freedom,be devoutly religious, consider women more or less chattel,meaning that most of them are chauvinist asss? So with BPD and chauvinism a pwBpd in our culture may behave much and much worse than someone in another culture?

May i ask how you met your second husband? How he seemed at first to you,if you guys 'talked before marriage' how he treated you before the marriage? Did he ever promise he would never abuse you?

And how did he treat you after getting married? I mean initially and when and how the horrors you mention started? I know they are a lot of questions and some of them are quite personal,but will you please inbox me or reply to me here,however you feel comfortable? Because youre the first person that is even a bit close to understanding where am right now.

Im sorry all these horrors happened to you,but i hope you know it wasnt youre fault,that you were willing to give love and he was too sick to recognize it.

Our society is culturally built to make females feel like bloody failures if their marriage fails,its dysfunctional,outdated,pathetic.its not our fault,its never our fault.

Its a brave thing you did breaking free from such a situation,not many women could do that.

We're here to help you should you need it or not

[stuckgirl]

Your dilemma reads like this, so please correct where I'm wrong:

- Option A is to marry him and likely live a miserable life since he's suffering a PD, but at least you'll have some financial security and save face with your family per cultural norms.

- Option B is to leave him and put up with the fear of the unknown as far as any future spouse and financial footing is concerned.  Yes, you will also face backlash from family and friends for breaking cultural norms.

If I've got this down more or less right, I'd take option B in a

heartbeat.  It's a hard road for sure, but at least there appears to be a bit more room to improve your lot in life.  Option A seems like surrender, one that may appear to be the better option now, but will unfold over time to be the regretful choice.

Best of luck to you in whichever direction you

i know marrying him is like surrender,and possibly wrong,but a lot scarier to face the real world with psychological problems in my functioning... eh social anxiety and performance anxiety in almost everything i do (seems mad i know but an uncle of mine has similar symptoms too,for example i cant drive,the fear of not being able to or failing at it keeps interfering and stops me from conditioning to it.this effects other areas of my life as well,even talking.the anxiety of not being able to express myself properly confuses me so badly that i cannot separate right or weird things to say,talking has become a concious effort for me

so have many other things... it started at 17... im crazy but thats how it is

For some reason this effects every aspect of life.T says its ocd.

How does one walk into the unknown knowing one is dysfunctional and maimed in essential parts of life.

[Mutt]

i know marrying him is like surrender,and possibly wrong,but a lot scarier to face the real world with psychological problems in my functioning... eh social anxiety and performance anxiety in almost everything i do

so have many other things... it started at 17... im crazy but thats how it is

For some reason this effects every aspect of life.T says its ocd.

How does one walk into the unknown knowing one is dysfunctional and maimed in essential parts of life.

You have anxieties. Do you find being with him soothes your anxieties?

[HopefulDad]

Your dilemma reads like this, so please correct where I'm wrong:

- Option A is to marry him and likely live a miserable life since he's suffering a PD, but at least you'll have some financial security and save face with your family per cultural norms.

- Option B is to leave him and put up with the fear of the unknown as far as any future spouse and financial footing is concerned.  Yes, you will also face backlash from family and friends for breaking cultural norms.

If I've got this down more or less right, I'd take option B in a

heartbeat.  It's a hard road for sure, but at least there appears to be a bit more room to improve your lot in life.  Option A seems like surrender, one that may appear to be the better option now, but will unfold over time to be the regretful choice.

Best of luck to you in whichever direction you

i know marrying him is like surrender,and possibly wrong,but a lot scarier to face the real world with psychological problems in my functioning... eh social anxiety and performance anxiety in almost everything i do (seems mad i know but an uncle of mine has similar symptoms too,for example i cant drive,the fear of not being able to or failing at it keeps interfering and stops me from conditioning to it.this effects other areas of my life as well,even talking.the anxiety of not being able to express myself properly confuses me so badly that i cannot separate right or weird things to say,talking has become a concious effort for me

so have many other things... it started at 17... im crazy but thats how it is

For some reason this effects every aspect of life.T says its ocd.

How does one walk into the unknown knowing one is dysfunctional and maimed in essential parts of life.

I cannot imagine what it must be like for you should you decide to go it alone.  Should you go that route, you clearly need to overcome your anxieties and other psychological problems which will be a tall mountain to climb, for sure.  But two things on that I want to say:

- Overcoming these issues is a challenge you really need to take on married or not.  Which would be worse: Taking them on while fending for yourself or taking them on while a PD spouse tries to tear you down every step of the way?

- You wish your PD fiance would take on his own challenge, but because he's oblivious to his PD he will never acknowledge his issues and take them on before making a lifelong commitment to someone.  Take inspiration in that you could be the one to do what he cannot.

I wish you strength in your journey.