Work Rage

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

My worst memories of her are without doubt her raging at me just as I was heading to work the night shift. For a period of 6 months I'd get it at least once a week. I'd be in the car, the phone would ping and I knew what time it was. It would often escalate through the night. There was lots of stress, fear and humiliation in the relationship as it was but this was the worst. I already had a bad situation (personality clashes plus an over zealous boss) at work and on top I had to contend with that. I often had to stifle panic attacks on my way in. One of my bleakest memories was looking around the room during a training session and I saw colleagues who looked happy. I pictured them texting their wives without terror. A voice popped up in my head saying "This is fxxked up! They get none of this and here I am. How did it get to this?". I nearly broke down and cried.

Eventually things wore me down beyond being able to cope and I booked sick for a few months. It proved the right thing to do. My colleagues got a wake up call and backed off considerably. Even the ex let up. A little bit at least. I returned to a gentler and more considerate work place and I felt a lot better. Some time back in and her rages took up again. After a few more really nasty sessions I told her that one more attack while I'm at work and I promised WOULD beat the living sxxt out of her. Being a woman and physically weaker than me would not save her if she carried. The work rages stopped.

I read a list from a marriage counsellor where fighting with your partner while they are at work was at the top. I can only agree.

[Mr Hollande]

My worst memories of her are without doubt her raging at me just as I was heading to work the night shift. For a period of 6 months I'd get it at least once a week. I'd be in the car, the phone would ping and I knew what time it was. It would often escalate through the night. There was lots of stress, fear and humiliation in the relationship as it was but this was the worst. I already had a bad situation (personality clashes plus an over zealous boss) at work and on top I had to contend with that. I often had to stifle panic attacks on my way in. One of my bleakest memories was looking around the room during a training session and I saw colleagues who looked happy. I pictured them texting their wives without terror. A voice popped up in my head saying "This is fxxked up! They get none of this and here I am. How did it get to this?". I nearly broke down and cried.

Eventually things wore me down beyond being able to cope and I booked sick for a few months. It proved the right thing to do. My colleagues got a wake up call and backed off considerably. Even the ex let up. A little bit at least. I returned to a gentler and more considerate work place and I felt a lot better. Some time back in and her rages took up again. After a few more really nasty sessions I told her that one more attack while I'm at work and I promised WOULD beat the living sxxt out of her. Being a woman and physically weaker than me would not save her if she carried. The work rages stopped.

I read a list from a marriage counsellor where fighting with your partner while they are at work was at the top. I can only agree.

[MommaBear]

So glad you had a supportive work environment!

I spend a lot of time on the road, so it didn't work out so well in my case. He'd text/call and rage at me while driving. When I told him I'd be killed, he said he didn't care.

What I don't get is how they can't see the ways in which they are just "too much" sometimes. Can you imagine their reactions if we called them at work and raged like a maniac?

The double standard always killed me.

And God help us if we don't pick up the phone or text back, am I right? I'd get it 10 fold later on if I didn't risk driving off the side of the highway and killing myself because he was having some sort of delusional crisis.

Yup. Workplace crazy is a boundary that, when crossed, sets up a TON of red flags. Wish I had realized that sooner.

Ugh, the stuff we remember!

[DreamGirl]

Being bothered at work really can be taxing. My kids are notorious for it.

I remember Randi Kreger used this kind of specific situation (being called at work numerous times) in one of her writings about setting boundaries. She explained techniques to identify the value (work is important, it pays our bills), set the boundary (I can only take a few calls per day at certain times) and relaying the boundary with the consequence should there be boundary busting (I won't pick up if I'm in a meeting).  

After a few more really nasty sessions I told her that one more attack while I'm at work and I promised WOULD beat the living sxxt out of her. Being a woman and physically weaker than me would not save her if she carried. The work rages stopped.

I really do understand that you were so upset --- I just wonder if this is true? Would you have followed through on your consequence?

I just feel like when we are setting boundaries with others to protect our values, it is so important that we stay in line with our values.

You reached your limit and you pushed back, did you bust your own value/boundary (for yourself) in doing it though?  

[Mr Hollande]

After a few more really nasty sessions I told her that one more attack while I'm at work and I promised WOULD beat the living sxxt out of her. Being a woman and physically weaker than me would not save her if she carried. The work rages stopped.

I really do understand that you were so upset --- I just wonder if this is true? Would you have followed through on your consequence?

I just feel like when we are setting boundaries with others to protect our values, it is so important that we stay in line with our values.

You reached your limit and you pushed back, did you bust your own value/boundary (for yourself) in doing it though?

Would I have followed through? Hard to say. She wasn't in front of me when I said it. She knew full well the distress it had caused me and I believe she was truly sorry for doing it. At the same time being sorry hadn't stopped her from doing it over and over again before.

Did I bust my own values/boundries? Of course I did! As if I ever planned to resort to something so ugly as physical violence against the one I loved. It was a final response by someone at their wits end. I'm not saying it's the way to handle it, God knows I made mistakes and handled so many things wrong along the way, but the threat worked. At least in the sense of her rages going back to a normal rate as opposed to every time I was due in for a stressful night shift.

Not to reveal my job title but it is a potentially dangerous one and I need to be focused. To have someone pounding on me non stop could have a disastrous outcome. When sensible she knew that and it needed to stop. I was desperate for it end.

[gtrhr]

After a few more really nasty sessions I told her that one more attack while I'm at work and I promised WOULD beat the living sxxt out of her. Being a woman and physically weaker than me would not save her if she carried. The work rages stopped.

I really do understand that you were so upset --- I just wonder if this is true? Would you have followed through on your consequence?

I just feel like when we are setting boundaries with others to protect our values, it is so important that we stay in line with our values.

You reached your limit and you pushed back, did you bust your own value/boundary (for yourself) in doing it though?  

Well said DreamGirl.

Mr Hollande, I can understand where you are coming from and I think your honesty about it is not a bad thing.  But really the golden rule applies here and what DreamGirl said about living by your own values and keeping clear healthy boundaries is important.  A healthier you (or any of us who have been in your shoes) would walk away and never look back.  It's really not healthy to be in a relationship which provokes that level of anger to where you even have to threaten violence to make your boundary clear.  At that point, fully detaching from the person is absolutely necessary.

I totally share in your frustration at the thoughts of my co-workers have normal lives and the stresses I had to put up with in the past.  And now still unable to fully get over this person.

Now for a bit of a rant.  I don't want to sound preachy and I don't judge you.  Physical violence isn't right under any circumstance.  I base what I say on my personal experience.

At one time in the relationship with my uxBPDgf I had been subjected to months of verbal abused.  In trying to discuss as much with her about that abuse during a relatively calm an unremarkable conversation, she  hauled off and assaulted me.  She slapped me, and she got the same in return.  Two wrongs don't make a right, BUT I'm also not a human punching bag and no one in my life had ever subjected me to such treatment.  Until you've been there you really don't KNOW how you'll react.  She persisted and attempted to assault me again.  I let her and gave back once more.  Both times I made sure to give it equal in return.  At the time I was indignant as hell towards the violence she tried to perpetrate against me.  She was attempting to slap me back into line and I wasn't having any of it.  I felt I was teaching her a lesson that she could not manipulate me in this manner.  It wasn't self defense per se and I wasn't attempting to harm her.  (Her slap hurt like hell and I wanted her to understand)  Then I restrained her.  And made her agree - "that's it, you never lay your hands on me now or ever again."  Whoopi Goldberg is absolutely right to tell women not to play with fire.  If you intentionally bait and provoke a man you don't know what would happen.

I have witnessed the dynamic of her parents, and have seen her mom have to handle her uBPD father in this manner.  So lots of pieces of this puzzle fell into place for me.

Listen, I don't believe in physical violence under any circumstances.  Even my case, I hardly feel like a criminal like the courts would likely treat me but I wish I had had the strength to JUST FREAKING LEAVE HER.  If women want true equality then they need to understand, true equality means you don't assault anyone, ever, period.  And if you do, then be prepared that your equal partner will conduct themselves equally.  I REALLY exercised a lot of restraint.  If you don't practice non-violence and restraint, I fear what could happen.  Someone could get seriously injured or killed under the wrong circumstances.

The upside to this is that was an end to any further physical violence on her part, and no police or courts had to get involved because I didn't allow it to escalate.

As a man you have to realize the police, the courts, and society in general are going to be totally stacked against you even if you were to act in self defense.  And even, as in your case, you being harassed at work relentlessly.

When I look back on my incident, I look at that as really one of the major opportunities for me to get the hell away from my crazy ex.  And I also realize the consequences could have been way worse for both of us had the violence escalated further.

In some ways I felt thankful that she did assault me as crazy as it may sound.  I totally got me out of the mindset of "maybe I'm not being abused" into, "I'm absolutely experiencing verbal abuse and manipulation."  She and I attempted counseling later in which she tried to diminish all I said and make it sound as if everything I felt was an overreaction.  That's what truly ended things for us.

To echo DreamGirls point about living by your own values.  After that incident of being assaulted, I was no longer living by my values even by being in a relationship with the woman.  Further verbal abuse, withholding, and disrespecting me led to me being the one to bother her at work (as I was unable to concentrate at my job) and try and get her to repair the damage from the abuse.  Because she would ignore me in the evenings while we took care of her kids and did things around the house.  I eventually went so mental I'd write long letters, text a lot, etc etc.  Finally got to the point if she did something bad enough I'd call her bad names etc.  By staying in the situation for six months allowing her to verbally abuse me, I eventually abused her back.  That's the danger of staying in the situation like that.


OK... .End of Rant  

[DreamGirl]

I'm glad that you believe it might not have been the best solution -- even though it worked.  

As if I ever planned to resort to something so ugly as physical violence against the one I loved. It was a final response by someone at their wits end. I'm not saying it's the way to handle it, God knows I made mistakes and handled so many things wrong along the way, but the threat worked. At least in the sense of her rages going back to a normal rate as opposed to every time I was due in for a stressful night shift.

I understand --- I'm also not proud of my handling situations when it came to dealing with the pwBPD in my life. The hardest part for me was when I exchanged my own beliefs and acted on behalf of my emotions (usually anger). I behaved in ways that weren't exactly pretty either. So then I was even more angry because I didn't want to be "that person" I'd become.  I allowed her to affect me in a way where I was justifying my own bad behavior... .based on hers.  

I haven't always deserved the way she's treated me at times either and grace can be a hard virtue to find in those moments.

When sensible she knew that and it needed to stop. I was desperate for it end.

Back to the original theme for your post about how much these rages are still alive in your mind... .

It's my understanding when it comes to this disorder that in those moments for a pwBPD, the emotions are far too blinding to ever have rationally grasped just how detrimental her behavior was towards you. Or when the next day comes and it's like nothing even happened. Something did happen though... .

It's so hard for "us" to let that kind of thing go --- the things that were said, the hurt that we felt, or the wound that was left. Or why we allowed it and kept coming back.

Why do you think you let escalate so much? To a point where you, too, were busting boundaries?

[Mr Hollande]

All true gtrhr but you know as well as I do that that isn't so clear when you are in the middle of it. I am one of those stubborn types who never give up. Mostly for good but in this case it was bad. I WAS going to make this work. At first I was going to change myself and then when I realised that she is actually ill I was going to find a way to cure her. Imagine that knight in Quest for the Holy Grail. You know the one who keeps fighting even when he's been turned into a torso. Pathetic!

On a somewhat positive note though. When I finally did walk I walked away in disgust and with the knowledge that I had truly given it everything. No violence or great outburst on my behalf. Just silence and resentment. I am bitter, I am angry, I am obsessed and I dream of revenge. It's early days and I have a long march ahead. How I'll get there (you know... .there) I don't know for sure. One thing I do know is that she and I on any level is totally impossible. It's over and for that I am grateful.

[camuse]

It's my understanding when it comes to this disorder that in those moments for a pwBPD, the emotions are far too blinding to ever have rationally grasped just how detrimental her behavior was towards you. Or when the next day comes and it's like nothing even happened. Something did happen though... .

It's so hard for "us" to let that kind of thing go --- the things that were said, the hurt that we felt, or the wound that was left. Or why we allowed it and kept coming back.

I'm actually very good at letting things go, but my ex pushed my serenity to the limit.

She raged normally very late at night, just as we were going to sleep - often just as I had started to drift off. She'd keep me awake for 4 to 5 hours, so the next day I'd have had 2 or 3 hours sleep, be reeling from the shock and generally very annoyed and confused. She would wake up as if nothing had happened, and be furious that I was in a bad mood. I was exhausted. She never apologized, and if I said your behavior was totally out of order, she just didn't respond.

The day after I'd have slept and be ready to move on and forget, but now she would be hurt that I was "sulking" the day before. She'd say "my love for you is too much for you, and you push me away."

Contrast that with something I did to upset her - she would never ever forget. She overheard me consoling a female friend who had had bad news just after we first got together - when she was still refusing to tell anyone I existed. Nearly two years later she was still going on about this, saying I had cheated on her by being sympathetic to another woman, and she could never get over it and that was why we could never work.

If I pointed out the unfairness of me having to get over everything immediately, and her never getting over anything at all, she just said "I expect you to be stronger than me."

I'm not proud of letting her get to me. Maybe I shouldn't have consoled the friend and been more sensitive to my ex's insecurities, I dunno. I'm not proud of pushing her way  or getting angry after a rage when she was hurting and taking it out on me. But I'm human, with feelings, and my feelings were irrelevant to her. Sometimes I need some compassion too you know!

One one occasion she had seen me talking to a woman I knew slightly in a bar - nothing at all suspicious, just her saying hi and me saying hi how are you. She punched me, shouted all night, shouted the next day, the day after the day after that... After a week, I decided to draw a line by cooking her a lovely meal, ran her a nice hot bath We had a nice evening, and as we got into bed she started on about this ****ing woman again! I wasn't having it - I pulled her face to mind and screamed in her ear "I AM SORRY! I AM SORRY! I AM VERY VERYYYYYYY SORRYYYYYYYYYYY! JUST SHUT THE **** UP ABOUT IT BECAUSE I AM SORRY!" It was a big deal because I NEVER lose my temper! I wasn't proud, but she went straight to sleep this time, shocked. But the next day she was angry again - because I had shouted at her. You couldn't make it up She can shout and scream all the time, but the one time I lose it is unacceptable because I have to be stronger than her.  

And frankly, however hurt or upset you are, shouting and screaming for 5 hours at night is still not reasonable behavior. A mature adult explains calmly why they are upset, and unless it's insurmountable you discuss it, apologize, forgive and move on. "I don't like seeing you talking to other women in public." "OK I will try not to do that in future." The end.

Only a child or a crazy person screams and shouts and then goes on about it every day for months on end. So while I'm not proud of losing my temper, I was driven to it.

[Mr Hollande]

The all familiar it's OK when I do it to you but if you do it to me it's the worst crime in the world. Like the time she f##ked a guy in the toilet at a party in full view of everyone. I forgave her for that (why?) but when I helped myself to some extra curricular she never got over it. From where I sat I had a freebee to cash in. When I did she didn't like it. Poor baby.

Ah well, she's in a better place with her drug dealer boyfriend now. At least he doesn't have a boss to answer to when she flies off the handle while he's out earning his crust. 

[gtrhr]

Imagine that knight in Quest for the Holy Grail. You know the one who keeps fighting even when he's been turned into a torso. Pathetic!

HAHAHAHA!  had a good laugh at that!  "It's just a flesh wound!"  That is a proper analogy to us dealing with the BPD type!

Yes, I'm equally stubborn to try and make it work out too!

On a somewhat positive note though. When I finally did walk I walked away in disgust and with the knowledge that I had truly given it everything. No violence or great outburst on my behalf. Just silence and resentment. I am bitter, I am angry, I am obsessed and I dream of revenge. It's early days and I have a long march ahead. How I'll get there (you know... .there) I don't know for sure. One thing I do know is that she and I on any level is totally impossible. It's over and for that I am grateful.

That's really good.  To be certain about it.  Even though you may have some desire lingering, I suppose if you're posting to this forum at all there is some painful attachment.  But to know in reality it can never be real thing and that you tried your best is a big step.


It's funny the very thing that drove you crazy about her, is actually what she claims that I as the non-BPD did.  Well for reasons that had more to do with her being dismissive and ignoring me (things her ex husband complained about as well, big red flag I overlooked)  I could only get her audience later in the evenings after 10pm.  Most conversations I felt should only last fifteen minutes at the most.  Unfortunately she could never really own up to abusive behaviors and really intensified the discussions by talking over me, belittling me, verbally abusing me further.  That made things ten times worse and then my adrenalin kicked in defending myself and so there that conversation that should have been short and easy became drawn out and painful.  Then she complains I "don't let her sleep."  There was just no winning.  My career felt in a tailspin the entire time with her.  I think my work suffered far worse.  The reason I needed those talks was to get rid of the abuse and regain some peace of mind.

And, as you mentioned, she would have no trouble at all lighting into me (forget about her trying to start as a calm discussion if she brought something up!) any time DAY OR NIGHT if it suited her.  After the incidence of physical violence to tell you the truth, I couldn't care less if I kept her up.  If she wasn't going to answer for the things that she did and at least attempt to make them better why did she deserve peace of mind when she couldn't provide it for me.

I think this quote from dreamgirl that's already been quoted another time by camuse surmises the situation very well!

It's my understanding when it comes to this disorder that in those moments for a pwBPD, the emotions are far too blinding to ever have rationally grasped just how detrimental her behavior was towards you. Or when the next day comes and it's like nothing even happened. Something did happen though... .

It's so hard for "us" to let that kind of thing go --- the things that were said, the hurt that we felt, or the wound that was left. Or why we allowed it and kept coming back.

I definitely had trouble letting go of the abuse.

[Skip]

The all familiar it's OK when I do it to you but if you do it to me it's the worst crime in the world. Like the time she f##ked a guy in the toilet at a party in full view of everyone. I forgave her for that (why?) but when I helped myself to some extra curricular she never got over it.

So what was going on here?

Why did she take a party favor?  What was going on at the time with the two of you?  How did you find out?

And what was going on when you cashed your "get out of jail free" card and went out on her?

I am bitter, I am angry, I am obsessed and I dream of revenge. It's early days and I have a long march ahead. How I'll get there (you know... .there) I don't know for sure.

It's early - 90 days out - so, yeah, you have a ways to go     We'll stand by Hollande.

If may be early to ask this qestion, but why do you want to hurt her?  Are you feeling heart broken?  Betrayed?  Cheated?  Used?  Fearful/threatened?    Can you get peak underneath the anger and see what the base feeling is?

[Mr Hollande]

The all familiar it's OK when I do it to you but if you do it to me it's the worst crime in the world. Like the time she f##ked a guy in the toilet at a party in full view of everyone. I forgave her for that (why?) but when I helped myself to some extra curricular she never got over it.

So what was going on here?

Why did she take a party favor?  What was going on at the time with the two of you?  How did you find out?

And what was going on when you cashed your "get out of jail free" card and went out on her?

I am bitter, I am angry, I am obsessed and I dream of revenge. It's early days and I have a long march ahead. How I'll get there (you know... .there) I don't know for sure.

It's early - 90 days out - so, yeah, you have a ways to go     We'll stand by Hollande.

If may be early to ask this qestion, but why do you want to hurt her?  Are you feeling heart broken?  Betrayed?  Cheated?  Used?  Fearful/threatened?    Can you get peak underneath the anger and see what the base feeling is?

She claimed she believed I was sleeping around and this was her revenge. I wasn't and her "revenge" backfired as she spent all night sobbing like a child and begging me to forgive her. It was still early days. Can't remember exactly but we were maybe 9 months into our relationship. Things were not fully set but we had agreed to at least not involve others when we were together. It was long distance and this was the 3rd time we met. I had taken her along on a business mixed with pleasure trip. I "found out" because I saw the whole courting act play out and while finding it hard to believe I also told myself that I shouldn't have to explain such an obvious thing to her. There had been a lot of drink and I soon fell asleep on a bed. Next thing I knew she was lying beside me crying uncontrollably. Had I had any sense I would have left it there and then but I didn't. I wasn't in love yet but I was fearful of never meeting anyone again as well as being very sweet on her. She had something I really liked. You know what I mean.

The freebee presented itself last year. After 4 years of drama and nastiness we were in one of many breaks from each other. The other woman is an old friend and there had always been an attraction but we'd never acted on it. Until now. It was an easy and carefree affair. We had fun, enjoyed each others company and the sex was blissfully free of the feeling of having to perform like it was with my BPDgf. It couldn't last and after a few meetings we both knew it had run its course so the sex ended and the friendship continued. My ex had often talked about how sex with someone else wasn't the end of the world. I myself am not a particularly jealous person in that respect and take a similarly relaxed view. Mistakes may happen but as long as there are no feelings involved I'm willing to forgive and forget. With that said there is a time and a place. Tact! What my ex did to me when we were travelling together was not tactful. The way she did it in full view of everyone at that party was downright humiliating. I had kept mine very discreet and with someone I know and trust. The one she picked was just some random scumbag with no regard for her or me. Probably not himself either.

So early this year during a bear all and lets get closer and grow back together session I revealed the affair. She freaked. It became the biggest stick she had to beat me with. She had f**ked someone in front of me and my friends at a party but my discreet adventure during one of our splits was the end of the world. I talked her down several times but it would always reappear and it got REALLY tiresome. I even said that OK, if you really can't forgive me then leave me. She didn't want that either. Then the affair would rear it's ugly head again. I even cancelled the friendship I had with this girl. It still wasn't enough.

Are you feeling heart broken? Yes. Betrayed? Yes! Cheated? Yes! Used? Yes! Fearful/threatened? No. Not any more.

Why do I want to hurt her? I don't want to hurt her personally. I could if I wanted to. There are a couple of really ___ty things I could do quite easily to drop her and her drug dealer bf right in it but I won't. What I want is for her to go down slowly but safely as her ___ life runs its course. I will not lift a finger to help her. That's what I want.